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Thread: R1a in Western Europe

  1. #26
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    z830
    MtDNA haplogroup
    R0a

    Country: Egypt



    Arab maybe after Islam from north Africa from Saudi or yemen

  2. #27
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    Country: Turkey



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    R-DNA is our ancestoral DNA(Turkic) and we have fought&invaded our brothers in history because of politics.. as our ancestors have done it against central asian Turkic brothers(Seljuk-Khwarezmian-Ghaznavid-Ottoman-Safevid wars)

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    Country: UK - England



    Is L664 a Germanic haplogroup in general or will I have to do further testing for my subclade?

  4. #29
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    I ran my wife's DNA through

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Pr...ase/Haplogroup

    and the Ydna result she got was R-M512 Z282

    Unsure how accurate this ydna prediction is via promethease
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  5. #30
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    R1a in Western Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    I ran my wife's DNA through

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Pr...ase/Haplogroup

    and the Ydna result she got was R-M512 Z282

    Unsure how accurate this ydna prediction is via promethease
    Are you saying that they can predict the Y Haplogroup of the Father in the DNA of Women?
    But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

  6. #31
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Are you saying that they can predict the Y Haplogroup of the Father in the DNA of Women?
    they did for this but I need to cross reference..........I just need to upload my 1st cousin and since I know she is i1d-P109 ....if this comes up , then it works.

    they do find mtdna for men ...........i used myself and my father

    same as I cross reference in mtdna ....jameslick program and mitomaster

  7. #32
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    they did for this but I need to cross reference..........I just need to upload my 1st cousin and since I know she is i1d-P109 ....if this comes up , then it works.

    they do find mtdna for men ...........i used myself and my father

    same as I cross reference in mtdna ....jameslick program and mitomaster
    A cross reference result would be Interesting to see, plus we’ll know how accurate their prediction algorithm is.
    Thanks, Sile.

  8. #33
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    Some data about FTDNA customers with R1a haplogroup from England:

    This data is from 2015-16, I'm sure that now there are more samples:


  9. #34
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    I think that most of R1a in Germany is Slavic (as well as some Baltic, Old Prussian) simply because of how it is distributed, and because it belongs to the same branches as common Slavic branches. Compare frequencies of R1a among Western European nations and Germans, and how R1a is distributed in Germany:

    Western Europeans:

    Population (Zeit) ----------- % Haplogruppe R1a (Stichprobenumfang / sample size)

    Flandern (heutzutage) ---------------------------- 4,3% (695)
    Brabant (heutzutage) ----------------------------- 4,0% (große)
    Wallonien (heutzutage) --------------------------- 4,0% (74)
    England (vor 1914) ------------------------------- 4,0% (1830)
    England (heutzutage) ----------------------------- 4,5% (>5000)
    Irland (heutzutage) ------------------------------- 2,5% (>5000)
    Wales (heutzutage) ------------------------------- 1,0% (411)

    Balts and North Slavs:

    Population (Zeit) ----------- % Haplogruppe R1a (Stichprobenumfang)

    Kaschuben (einheimische) ------------------------ 63,4% (268)
    Kleinpolen (heutzutage) -------------------------- 63,2% (212)
    Kurpie (einheimische) ----------------------------- 61,4% (158)
    Kociewie (einheimische) -------------------------- 56,3% (158)
    Großpolen (heutzutage) -------------------------- 54,8% (343)
    Litauer (heutzutage) ------------------------------ 42,2% (301)
    Letten (heutzutage) ------------------------------ 40,0% (große)

    Germany (regional %):

    Population (Zeit) ----------- % Haplogruppe R1a (Stichprobenumfang)

    Sorben (einheimische) ---------------------------- 65,0% (123)
    Oberschlesien (vor 1914) ------------------------- 63,0% (48)
    Brandenburg an der Havel (vor 1914) ---------- 50,0% (14)
    Niederschlesien (vor 1914) ----------------------- 48,0% (48)
    Ostpreußen (vor 1914) ---------------------------- 45,2% (84)
    Graz, Österreich (heutzutage) -------------------- 42,9% (große)
    Dessau–Roßlau (vor 1914) ------------------------ 42,9% (7)
    Chemnitz (vor 1914) ------------------------------ 40,0% (10)
    Dresden (heutzutage) ----------------------------- 32,6% (große)
    Rostock (heutzutage) ------------------------------ 32,4% (96)
    Halle an der Saale (heutzutage)* --------------- 30,3% (234)
    Leipzig (heutzutage) ------------------------------ 27,1% (144)
    Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (vor 1914) ---------- 25,8% (31)
    Berlin (heutzutage) ------------------------------- 23,7% (232)
    Sachsen (vor 1914) ------------------------------- 22,0% (41)
    Bern (heutzutage) -------------------------------- 21,4% (???)
    Magdeburg (heutzutage) ------------------------- 21,0% (100)
    Greifswald (heutzutage) ------------------------- 19,2% (104)
    Sachsen-Anhalt (vor 1914) ---------------------- 17,7% (34)
    Kassel (vor 1914) --------------------------------- 17,7% (17)
    Hamburg (heutzutage) -------------------------- 16,8% (161)
    Oberpfalz (vor 1914) ---------------------------- 16,7% (6)
    Nord Osttirol -------------------------------------- 16,0% (235)
    Köln (heutzutage) -------------------------------- 15,6% (96)
    Braunschweig (vor 1914) ----------------------- 14,3% (14)
    München (heutzutage) ------------------------- 14,3% (112)
    Thüringen (vor 1914) ---------------------------- 13,2% (38)
    Unterfranken (vor 1914) ------------------------ 11,5% (26)
    Freiburg im Breisgau (vor 1914) ---------------- 10,8% (102)
    Lüneburg (vor 1914) -----------------------------10,0% (20)
    Schleswig-Holstein (vor 1914) ----------------- 10,0% (20)
    Niedersachsen (vor 1914) ----------------------- 9,8% (82)
    Lausanne (heutzutage) -------------------------- 9,4% (???)
    Bayern (vor 1914) -------------------------------- 8,6% (93)
    Hessen (vor 1914) -------------------------------- 8,5% (82)
    Mainz (heutzutage) ------------------------------ 8,4% (95)
    Weser-Ems (vor 1914) -------------------------- 8,3% (24)
    Hannover (vor 1914) ---------------------------- 8,3% (24)
    Münster (heutzutage) -------------------------- 7,8% (102)
    [Münster (vor 1914) ---------------------------- 9,1% (11)]
    Rheinhessen-Pfalz (vor 1914) ------------------ 7,8% (64)
    Gießen (vor 1914) ------------------------------- 7,1% (14)
    Karlsruhe (vor 1914) ---------------------------- 6,7% (60)
    Düsseldorf (vor 1914) -------------------------- 6,7% (15)
    Darmstadt (vor 1914) --------------------------- 5,9% (51)
    Oberfranken (vor 1914) ------------------------ 5,9% (17)
    Baden-Württemberg (vor 1914) -------------- 5,7% (176)
    Tübingen (vor 1914) ---------------------------- 5,3% (19)
    Rheinland-Pfalz (vor 1914) -------------------- 5,2% (116)
    Stuttgart (vor 1914) ---------------------------- 4,4% (68)
    Mulheim (heutzutage) -------------------------- 3,4% (59)
    Nordrhein-Westfalen (vor 1914) -------------- 2,8% (72)
    Koblenz (vor 1914) ------------------------------ 2,7% (37)
    Oberbayern (vor 1914) ------------------------- 0,0% (20)
    Arnsberg (vor 1914) ----------------------------- 0,0% (17)
    Saarland (vor 1914) ----------------------------- 0,0% (16)
    Trier (vor 1914) ---------------------------------- 0,0% (15)
    Detmold (vor 1914) ----------------------------- 0,0% (14)
    Schwaben (vor 1914) --------------------------- 0,0% (11)
    Mittelfranken (vor 1914) ----------------------- 0,0% (10)
    Bremen (vor 1914) ------------------------------ 0,0% (5)

    ^^^ The map of R1a in Germany and Austria posted below is based on this data:

    http://oi68.tinypic.com/6enpso.jpg



    Compare with the map of European languages in 1100 AD (this map is from: Grover S. Krantz, Professor of Anthropology, "Geographical Development Of European Languages", American University Studies, Series XI, Anthropology and Sociology, Vol. 26):

    http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turk...zGCh7Fig26.jpg



    In 800 AD the extent of Slavic languages was even larger than in 1100 AD, as it also included most of Austria in 800 AD:


  10. #35
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Not only slavs brought this HG in W Europe. Corded Ware culture was in Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia(including Jutland culture of Corded Ware)

  11. #36
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    Ethnic group
    Northern European
    Country: United States



    How significant was the impact of the Hanseatic League when came to the spread of different DNA across the Baltic and North Seas? I have a distant Norwegian ancestor that emigrated from Germany to Telemark in the 1500's and started a lumber business there.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP3994

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Switzerland



    [QUOTE=Tomenable;541068]Some data about FTDNA customers with R1a haplogroup from England:

    This data is from 2015-16, I'm sure that now there are more samples:
    ...

    Does anyone have an idea of the historical event that brought R-Z283*, R-Z280 and R-M458 in England ?

  13. #38
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Illyri View Post
    .....


    We can't be sure about Where Z283 originally was. Some believe it's descending clades(M458,Z280, Z284) split somewhere around Central Europe with the Corded Ware Culture.

    There are plenty of Z280 ancient samples, most of which are found in Eastern/North-Eastern Europe. Currently there is no ancient pre-migration samples for M458. Z284 is mostly found in Scandinavia, and most clades are found in Western and Northern Europe.

    Z280 in the Balkans is mostly from Slavic tribes. However, I believe many Baltic and Proto-Slavic tribesman were assimilated in the movements of Goths, so it could have been carried minimally by them. The same could be true in some cases of M458.

    Currently it is too early to tell. We need more testing to define varied haplotypes to have an idea who specific clusters moved with.

    In all probability my line came with Proto-Slavic tribes. However, my haplotype is part of a unique Albanian founder effect.

    Currently my branch of L1029 is not found anywhere outside Albanians, with our Albanian forefather living sometime 1200 years ago. There is already some type of sub-clusters forming within Gheg/Tosk variants in the cluster.

    So all we can definitely say in my case is the ancestor of this Albanian cluster was in East Europe/Central Europe some time between 1300-2100 years ago.

    So in my case whether it was Slavic, Gothic or whatever, the Albanian haplotype looks to have formed somewhere around Dibra 1200 years ago, so likely entered in the later phase of Proto-Albanian development, taking part in Albanian ethnogenesis.

    So we can say for sure it probably had nothing to do with Illyrians. My bet is most R1a in the Balkans is Slavic, Baltic, isolate German and Turkic clusters. Maybe some is Scythian and Sarmatian.

    Sadly until more and more do full genome test we can't tell.

  14. #39
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP3994

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    ...
    In all probability my line came with Proto-Slavic tribes. However, my haplotype is part of a unique Albanian founder effect.

    Currently my branch of L1029 is not found anywhere outside Albanians, with our Albanian forefather living sometime 1200 years ago. There is already some type of sub-clusters forming within Gheg/Tosk variants in the cluster.

    So all we can definitely say in my case is the ancestor of this Albanian cluster was in East Europe/Central Europe some time between 1300-2100 years ago.

    So in my case whether it was Slavic, Gothic or whatever, the Albanian haplotype looks to have formed somewhere around Dibra 1200 years ago, so likely entered in the later phase of Proto-Albanian development, taking part in Albanian ethnogenesis.

    So we can say for sure it probably had nothing to do with Illyrians. My bet is most R1a in the Balkans is Slavic, Baltic, isolate German and Turkic clusters. Maybe some is Scythian and Sarmatian.
    Thanks for the information Dibran.
    I have read about your "Dibra Cluster" on www.gjenetika.com and I must say that it is really interesting that it also appears among Tosk Albanians.
    As for your bet about R1a in the Balkans, you are most likely right (given the forming ages and TMRCA of the present subclades).
    That being said, my haplotype could also be part of the Albanian ethnogenesis since three of its current bearers now live in places where Albanians settled during the Middle-ages (Northern Greece [Gumenica], Sicily [Palermo] and Bulgaria [Stara Zagora]). But, all this is mere speculation for the moment as I could well end up being closer to the two other known bearers (living in the UK and Russia).
    I am waiting for my BigY results and hope they will provide some useful information (as I do not even know the forming age of R-YP3994, though the TMRCA should not exceed 2400 ybp).

  15. #40
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP3994

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Switzerland



    Here is a map of R-Y2902, which has an interesting distribution in Europe:

    Attachment 11367

  16. #41
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283

    Country: Albania



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Illyri View Post
    I am waiting for my BigY results and hope they will provide some useful information (as I do not even know the forming age of R-YP3994, though the TMRCA should not exceed 2400 ybp).
    The "formed age" of a clade is always the TMRCA of the one it descends from. So in this case, the formed age of R-YP3994 should be ~2400 ybp (the TMRCA of R-Y2902). It's nice that you have ordered the BigY. You will get a TMRCA estimate with the Italian from Palermo, which should be less than ~2400 ybp. However, I'm not sure how many other BigY/NGS tests currently there is for R-YP3994. It's possible some of the others on FTDNA only tested YP3994+ through a SNP Pack. There should be at least one more since it takes two NGS tests to form a subclade, so perhaps the second one chose to hide his sample on YFull.
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

  17. #42
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-YP3994

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    The "formed age" of a clade is always the TMRCA of the one it descends from. So in this case, the formed age of R-YP3994 should be ~2400 ybp (the TMRCA of R-Y2902). It's nice that you have ordered the BigY. You will get a TMRCA estimate with the Italian from Palermo, which should be less than ~2400 ybp. However, I'm not sure how many other BigY/NGS tests currently there is for R-YP3994. It's possible some of the others on FTDNA only tested YP3994+ through a SNP Pack. There should be at least one more since it takes two NGS tests to form a subclade, so perhaps the second one chose to hide his sample on YFull.
    Thanks for the explanation about the forming age. It makes perfectly sense.
    The other BigY/NGS tested person is perhaps the british gentleman. In any case, the two other guys from the R1a project have not ordered such tests.

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