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Thread: Hitler's Y-DNA?

  1. #1
    Regular Member rms2's Avatar
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    Exclamation Hitler's Y-DNA?

    The article doesn't say whether any of the relatives tested were in Hitler's own y-dna line, but it seems likely, since the y haplogroup (E1b1b1) is mentioned.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html

    Does anyone out there have further information?

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    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    To say he had jewish and african roots apart from being untrue it's very sensationalist, childish and unsicentific. Belonging to haplogroup E is not a prove that he had jewish nor african ancestry. This haplogorup is common in the Austria area (about 9 % )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    To say he had jewish and african roots apart from being untrue it's very sensationalist, childish and unsicentific. Belonging to haplogroup E is not a prove that he had jewish nor african ancestry. This haplogorup is common in the Austria area (about 9 % )
    It is obvious that the people who presented this story did little DNA research. The report is filled with exaggeration.
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 25-08-10 at 16:21.

  4. #4
    weissmacht
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    That could easily mean he had Roman ancestors.He came from Austria-Central Europe not Northern Europe.The Romans had contact with the Danubian Germanioc tribes for hundreds of years-he easly could have picked up some Roman blood.The typical Jewish modal the Cohen Modal is J1 and J2-E1b1 is a non-semitic north african type-It means Hitler is as Jewish as Italians or Ancient Egytpians are.Plus its just his Y_dna-know one has ever said what his full genome is.The Y-dna is just one single line of amcestry you have-a needle in a geneological haystack.We are so into the Y-dna becuase it can be easily read and with great detail but in reality its only one line of your total background-it means Hitler-out of all his ancestors who ever walked the earth-had just one ancestor who had the E1b1 type.He had one single ancestor with this Y-dna type but thats nothing to do with the bulk of his ancestry.It means he is about 2% north african-thats all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weissmacht View Post
    That could easily mean he had Roman ancestors.He came from Austria-Central Europe not Northern Europe.The Romans had contact with the Danubian Germanioc tribes for hundreds of years-he easly could have picked up some Roman blood.The typical Jewish modal the Cohen Modal is J1 and J2-E1b1 is a non-semitic north african type-It means Hitler is as Jewish as Italians or Ancient Egytpians are.Plus its just his Y_dna-know one has ever said what his full genome is.The Y-dna is just one single line of amcestry you have-a needle in a geneological haystack.We are so into the Y-dna becuase it can be easily read and with great detail but in reality its only one line of your total background-it means Hitler-out of all his ancestors who ever walked the earth-had just one ancestor who had the E1b1 type.He had one single ancestor with this Y-dna type but thats nothing to do with the bulk of his ancestry.It means he is about 2% north african-thats all.
    First of all I totally disagree with J2 being Jewish, nations do not own genes let aside religions. Greeks, Turks and Kavkaz people have a lot more J2 than the Jews. So it is insulting to claim J2 is Jewish and only Jewish, it is as if I say R1b is Cameroonian or Turkish because both nations have a lot of it.
    Second E(V13) is European,E(V12) is North African and E(V22) is Med, which of these was Adolf Hitler? E(V13) would make the most sense and it is neither African nor Jewish.
    Third genes are a lot older than the concept of nations.So according to you all Germanics that are not I1 or I2b are not real German,all Slavs that are not I2a or R1a are not really Slav and all Jews that are not G2c and J1 are not Jews?It is not like this! I am nationalist myself and understand and value the concept of pride in your own but blood groups and genes are something different. If for example some 10 % of Austrians are E(V13) this means that this haplogroup plays a role in Austrian ethnogenesis,not that the people that carry it are not Austrians. So Hitler was what he was 100% Germanic and more precise South German /Austrian. His persona is a matter of an other discussion that has nothing to do with genes! Regards from a J2 Slav!

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    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
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    I am 100% Spanish, does anyone doubt it? obviously every country has its particular mix. We will end up catching flies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    To say he had jewish and african roots apart from being untrue it's very sensationalist, childish and unsicentific. Belonging to haplogroup E is not a prove that he had jewish nor african ancestry. This haplogorup is common in the Austria area (about 9 % )
    its a newspaper and they are permanent lying somehow they have to sell it ofcourse they have to put some crazyass titel so people read it

  8. #8
    Noman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    First of all I totally disagree with J2 being Jewish, nations do not own genes let aside religions. Greeks, Turks and Kavkaz people have a lot more J2 than the Jews. So it is insulting to claim J2 is Jewish and only Jewish, it is as if I say R1b is Cameroonian or Turkish because both nations have a lot of it.
    Second E(V13) is European,E(V12) is North African and E(V22) is Med, which of these was Adolf Hitler? E(V13) would make the most sense and it is neither African nor Jewish.
    Third genes are a lot older than the concept of nations.So according to you all Germanics that are not I1 or I2b are not real German,all Slavs that are not I2a or R1a are not really Slav and all Jews that are not G2c and J1 are not Jews?It is not like this! I am nationalist myself and understand and value the concept of pride in your own but blood groups and genes are something different. If for example some 10 % of Austrians are E(V13) this means that this haplogroup plays a role in Austrian ethnogenesis,not that the people that carry it are not Austrians. So Hitler was what he was 100% Germanic and more precise South German /Austrian. His persona is a matter of an other discussion that has nothing to do with genes! Regards from a J2 Slav!
    But it's definitely recently african in origin. I don't think hitler would be pleased with that. Or actually I think he probably didn't buy into his own rhetoric, several of his staff were known to secretly have jewish roots. It was all a con job to get the peasants whipped into a frenzy.

    But I disagree about the jewishness. Obviously jews had certain founding lines. Since the cohen modal haplotype is j2 then you can't say that people who have J2 outside of jewish religion or area are totally unrelated. If you share paternal or materal dna you can't just totally discount your relation to someone, whether they are in cameroon or luxemburg.

    E1b is pretty mixed into several groups but if it's in austria it's probably directly jewish anyway. If you see e1b near J2 then you know that's the case. If you see e1b nearby lots of G then it's likely neolithic farmers that have been there a very long time.

    There's also possibility of romans but jews were not allowed to do many jobs or hold land when austria came to power and so they tended to go from urban area to urban area of whatever place had an economic boom or fleeing whatever place had expelled them. And of course austria qualifies on that count more than anywhere in its heyday.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It's not jewish nor african, nor recent origin. It's from the Neolithic. This haplogorup E-V13 has been found in early neolithic remains actually.

  10. #10
    Noman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    It's not jewish nor african, nor recent origin. It's from the Neolithic. This haplogorup E-V13 has been found in early neolithic remains actually.
    You don't come from the neolithic, that's impossible. It came from africa some time before neolithic but it's heavily found in the levant and wherever you find jews as well. It probably corresponds to the samaritans.

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    E-V13 is a European group, there is not a single non European population that has more then 1-2% of it(there was some mix up with the druze) some years ago. E-V13 did not come from Africa, but its father come from Levant. But so did originally the father of all groups, come from Africa. If Hitler was E-V13 he had typcial European group, which originates in the Neolith and spread culture and civilization in Europe,

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    Noman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    E-V13 is a European group, there is not a single non European population that has more then 1-2% of it(there was some mix up with the druze) some years ago. E-V13 did not come from Africa, but its father come from Levant. But so did originally the father of all groups, come from Africa. If Hitler was E-V13 he had typcial European group, which originates in the Neolith and spread culture and civilization in Europe,
    Which means, it came from...africa.

    But so did originally the father of all groups, come from Africa.
    So the theory goes, but since there's tons of E in africa I am sure hitler would be upset. Even if it's not his specific E he can trace his daddy back to africa.

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    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
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    Adolf Neolith Hitler ?

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    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noman View Post
    Which means, it came from...africa.


    So the theory goes, but since there's tons of E in africa I am sure hitler would be upset. Even if it's not his specific E he can trace his daddy back to africa.
    You are just twisting things up just because you want to call Hitler an African. Well E-V13 is a European haplogorup, not african since it's rare in Africa , and reaches it's peak in the Balkans, especially in Kosovars with near 40%. Now, if you want to go back in time and say this haplogroup originates in Africa, then all haplogroups do and all of humanity.

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    But who can believe today that the Germans or those calls Aryan races, and all fishing Vikings are superior? Top? Do? is to pee with laughter if we all know where we come from and how we have been at some times and other and what we had and no longer have.


    Superiors are the good people of noble hearts that are not four doodles all day on the L'Oreal and blue eyes as an argument.


    Got a box full of different colored Hamsters you think that red-eye golden hamster are superior to gray, brown or white?


    Drop bastard bit me one!

    Hitler was a poor man a coward who committed suicide before I cojieran that makes him a coward and he believed one of the words he would have thought if it would not have killed himself like a coward.

  16. #16
    Noman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    You are just twisting things up just because you want to call Hitler an African. Well E-V13 is a European haplogorup, not african since it's rare in Africa , and reaches it's peak in the Balkans, especially in Kosovars with near 40%.
    Sorry but this is completely ridiculous. Your haplogroup is your parentage. You can't say you have no relation to somebody with the same clade or a parent clade, it came to be in europe in the neolithic, and can trace to living africans. Now if it came to existence in europe that's another story, like created by god. But it came to europe from levant and before that from africa, it's just fact.

    Now, if you want to go back in time and say this haplogroup originates in Africa, then all haplogroups do and all of humanity.
    So you are completely inconsistent then? The only thing wrong here is that it assumes there's really an out of africa even which I don't believe is necessarily true. But virtually everyone can pick out people in africa with their same immediate clade and everyone can ultimately trace to someone in africa or for that matter to almost anywhere. No one can say they have zero africa relation, but if you are of E then you have a very quick trace back to africa.

    Whereas hitler would probably say that africans are virtually another species. I wonder if he knew his y-DNA and had the info we do today if he's have stil been so crazy, or maybe it would have just put him in another direction.

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    ┬┐And what if E came to Africa from another source? You're just assuming it is there since the begining of times when it has been discussed here on many occasions that only haplogroups A and B are purely African in origin. The fact is we don't know yet when E became dominant in Africa, specially among Northern Africans. So following your pattern, maybe we find out someday that haplogroup E traces back somewhere out of Africa. Then what? how would this match your assertion?

    I think Wilhelm's point makes perfect sense. Y-DNA only tells information about a single ancestor, what really matters is autosomal DNA if the focus is finding clear connections between groups. I don't care about Hitler's "African" genes but, in order to prove it, more than a single marker is definitely required to reach the goal.

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    Noman
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    I don't assume it's been there from the beginning of time but in the case of E, considering it's the heaviest "black" clade and because of its distribution and long association there I do think it has been in africa and levant a long, long time.

    Also, it's untrue this "european" E clade exists only in europe, and untrue it originated there. Natufian DNA (first farmers in levant) has been found to have that exact version, so we know right where it came form.

    So what I'm saying is you can deny all humans came out of africa but can't deny being related to the humans in africa with the E clade any more than the people with r1b can deny at least a little relation to the r1b in cameroon. That doesn't mean you are brothers or even cousins but you can't deny it completely, and I am sure hitler would have had a fit. Or from the results here, maybe not, he would claim to be wholly unrelated anyway perhaps.

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    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Haven't we concluded somewhere that Egyptians were E in major, up to Arab conquest?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I think this Y-DNA result proves that Hitler's paternal ancestors wore their hair in corn-rolls and love fried chicken n watermelon.
    Or maybe that he really was descended from Jesus-Christ himself.....you know both of 'em being Jews n all.......

    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    nobody knows the paternal line of this salopard, since its paternal grandfather is unknown, Hitler is a bastard by his birth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    To say he had jewish and african roots apart from being untrue it's very sensationalist, childish and unsicentific. Belonging to haplogroup E is not a prove that he had jewish nor african ancestry. This haplogorup is common in the Austria area (about 9 % )
    Yes, this. Having y-haplogroup E doesn't mean much except that his far-distant paternal line is more likely to have spent more time in north Africa rather than mesolithic Europe (haplogroup I) or the Eurasian steppes (haplogroup R). Haplogroups aren't races. Many people from Cameroon have R1b. Does that mean that they are Celts?

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    "Having y-haplogroup E doesn't mean much", well, it depends for whom... Don't forget that Hitler was a racist like most of the Germans and Austrians at that time.

    Not so long ago, in the US, the powerful 'one-drop' rule dominated thinking about race, in which 'one drop' of non-white blood was sufficient to exclude someone from the white race. And Americans were not Nazis. So we can imagine what such a Y-DNA could have represented for the Nazis....

    Haplogroups aren't races for sure, not sufficient to include someone in a group, but for sure sufficient for racists to exclude someone from their group....

    So it just means that Hitler's Y-DNA (his paternal line) wouldn't have been considered as "Aryan" by Nazis.... Therefore Hitler would have probably been deported (or at best excluded from the elite) like the other 9% of Austrians and all other Europeans who also belong to that E haplogroup (whatever their autosomal DNA)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ420832 View Post
    "Having y-haplogroup E doesn't mean much", well, it depends for whom... Don't forget that Hitler was a racist like most of the Germans and Austrians at that time.

    Not so long ago, in the US, the powerful 'one-drop' rule dominated thinking about race, in which 'one drop' of non-white blood was sufficient to exclude someone from the white race. And Americans were not Nazis. So we can imagine what such a Y-DNA could have represented for the Nazis....

    Haplogroups aren't races for sure, not sufficient to include someone in a group, but for sure sufficient for racists to exclude someone from their group....

    So it just means that Hitler's Y-DNA (his paternal line) wouldn't have been considered as "Aryan" by Nazis.... Therefore Hitler would have probably been deported (or at best excluded from the elite) like the other 9% of Austrians and all other Europeans who also belong to that E haplogroup (whatever their autosomal DNA)...
    Good point HQ.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HQ420832 View Post
    "Having y-haplogroup E doesn't mean much", well, it depends for whom... Don't forget that Hitler was a racist like most of the Germans and Austrians at that time.

    Not so long ago, in the US, the powerful 'one-drop' rule dominated thinking about race, in which 'one drop' of non-white blood was sufficient to exclude someone from the white race. And Americans were not Nazis. So we can imagine what such a Y-DNA could have represented for the Nazis....

    Haplogroups aren't races for sure, not sufficient to include someone in a group, but for sure sufficient for racists to exclude someone from their group....

    So it just means that Hitler's Y-DNA (his paternal line) wouldn't have been considered as "Aryan" by Nazis.... Therefore Hitler would have probably been deported (or at best excluded from the elite) like the other 9% of Austrians and all other Europeans who also belong to that E haplogroup (whatever their autosomal DNA)...
    I watched an interview a holocaust surviver of a concentration camp. The official kept asking the people with fair complexion and blue eyes, "are you really Jewish?". This means that the Nazi understanding of race was simply how they looked. Of course DNA was not known at the time so I would hardly imagine that they would have acted accorded to the alphabetical letter it produced as to current classifications.

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