R1b-U152/S28 : more Gaulish or Roman ?

[MOESAN]

no clue about the op, but from what i know light skin (homozygous derived at rs1426654/rs16891982) is a neolithic anatolian_farmer feature and so far in aDNA none of the celts actually had red-hair surprising since all of them are briton-celts (driffield-terrace/rathlin) in fact most were dark-haired(+some brown/blonde) and prevailing dark-eyed; i reckon that more extensive data will show whether ginger and celts go hand in hand or just false translations;

concerning phenotypic SNP's of pigmentation we have too few "Celts" to judge based upon only ancient DNA -
you confuse pan-europoid skin depigmentation based on 2 principal loci mutations with typical and more limited super-depigmentation based on other less known nd less common loci

[alexfritz]

concerning phenotypic SNP's of pigmentation we have too few "Celts" to judge based upon only ancient DNA -
you confuse pan-europoid skin depigmentation based on 2 principal loci mutations with typical and more limited super-depigmentation based on other less known nd less common loci

yes, that is what i meant with 'extensive data', though that so much literature stress the "fact" that romans saw red-haired people everywhere they looked i did expect the six british celts to be red-haired or at least the majority after all they span two-three hundred years of roman period, none of the celts being red-haired was very surprising; no confusion, that is what i meant that 'pan-europoid skin depigmentation' was already attested in/by anatolian derived farmers so chronologically earlier than bronze age people;

[Angela]

Actually, although Anatolian farmers did have a percentage of people who were derived for both SLC24A5 and SLC45A2, there were populations which had higher rates, including the SHG in Scandinavia. Also, if my memory serves, only one sample from Anatolia was predicted to have light hair.

The vast majority of people with majority EEF ancestry in Europe had dark hair and eyes, like Otzi, although he was derived for the major de-pigmentation snps. Also, a certain number were only derived for SLC24A5. Again, if memory serves, that was particularly the case in Iberia. It was only later on that you get light hair in Central Europe. See:
Christina Gamba et al
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3803/3...3e139a15_b.jpg




As Moesan points out, there are a lot of small effect genes that are also involved in pigmentation.

In particular, there are specific genes for red hair.

The red hair gene:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_ha...y_and_genetics

I don't know why there are so many fewer redheads than one might expect. It may have to do with the fact that it is an autosomal recessive trait, so both parents have to carry it. If one would do, I'd have red hair.

I also suspect we may not be translating certain words or descriptions precisely.

[MOESAN]

yes, that is what i meant with 'extensive data', though that so much literature stress the "fact" that romans saw red-haired people everywhere they looked i did expect the six british celts to be red-haired or at least the majority after all they span two-three hundred years of roman period, none of the celts being red-haired was very surprising; no confusion, that is what i meant that 'pan-europoid skin depigmentation' was already attested in/by anatolian derived farmers so chronologically earlier than bronze age people;

OK. Maybe I had misinterpreted your post. Good Sunday end.

[MOESAN]

Recessive? Yes Angela; I suspect a lot of us are aware of that: a 30/40% of bearers of at least one mutation for red hairs gives around 6/7% of effective red hairs and even then density of rufosity varies according to mutations concerned and perhaps too to general genome background -
but very ofthen, in a pop where 4 to 10% of red hairs are found, you have a very greater % of very light and freckled skins, and linked to it big % of red beards (sometimes eyebrows); as a rule , less red beards among females (humour of a hard sunday)... these facts can explain the generalization of antique authors concerning "red haired" entire pops. Today, still, these generalizations are very common: stereotypes.

[Robotnick]

Whoops, never mind. I have the S47

[Robotnick]

I could make an argument that everything that made Rome great was actually Etruscan in origin.

Congratulations on your ignorance of Indo-European cultural influence on Romans.

[Angela]

Congratulations on your ignorance of Indo-European cultural influence on Romans.

Congratulations on your first infraction.

You're getting off to a really bad start.

We don't speak to each other like that on this site, or at least not without consequences.

Keep going and you'll be out of here very soon.

To be clear, no one doubts, certainly not I, that the Romans spoke an Indo-European language, had many cultural attributes of Indo-European culture etc. The fact remains that many of the hallmarks of Roman greatness came from the Etruscan culture.

[felipeschmidt25]

Imo j2,j1 and the anatolian branch of R1b in Italy could be of greco-etruscan origin, RZ36 and RL2 of gaul origin(mostly clades of l2) and RZ56 of villanovan origins(some clades of l2 too).

[Finnall]

I am U152, I do not have a subclade. Could that mean that my origins were at the beginning of the Hallstatt culture? Or what?

[brianco]

Hi Finnall
If your U152 result is from Living DNA then no surprise you got no subclade as think they only have L2 on their chip. There are three other subclades and each have numerous downstream SNPs. This site shows them
https://www.ytree.net/

[Finnall]

In my mtDNA I have subclade I am X2 with subclade X2c2, in the Y-DNA I am only R-U152 (S28)

[roberto1960]

I am r-u152 R-z43

[roberto1960]

From tuscany

[Jovialis]

Stop spamming that, or I will give you an infraction for spamming. You've stated this on nearly all of your posts.

[florere]

I'm R-L2. R-L2 is U152?

[Ahmed]

Hi everyone. Since i received my BigY-700 results i started to know more about Europe and Romans history as my Y haplogroup is R-Z193/PF6658 which is subclade of R-U152. I am from Egypt so it was surprising when i knew that i am descending from European ancestor. I am 75% Egyptian ,20% from Asia Minor , 2% south European and i never heard about any European ancestors in my family but may be because it happened long time ago. I think my subclade is still existing in some areas in Italy like Sardinia and Tuscany so one of the strongest possibilities that my family moved to Egypt during the Romans invasion to Egypt 2000 years ago. I read a research about a lot of documented marriages between Roman soldiers and Egyptian women though it wasn't legalised at the beginning but it is still an assumption until i find a close match some where in Europe. I am in the big tree under my last name Abdou and soon will be in YFull.

[brianco]

Hi

I am also Z193/PF6658. Most are L2

[cemcarn]

Hello,
I have followed discussions and this is my first time to post. I am a member of the FTDNA U-152 Project, kit N103272. My Big Y-700 results recently came back and I have been assigned to a new L2 subclade: L2>Z41150>BY4245>BY61747. YTree has not yet determined the age.
My most distant ancestor b. 1730, Jura, Argyleshire Scotland. I have only one R-BY61747 match from unknown origin. I have two matches at 37 marker; one of the matches is a also a descendant of my most distant known ancestor.
There is still much debate about the origin and spread of L2 and subclades. I am inclined to believe my BY61747 subclade is more Celtic than Italian. I am very curious about BY4245 "hot spots" and dispersal, and any ideas or thoughts about about BY61747.