Politics Axis Paris-Moscow-Berlin - the foundation of the new Europe

[iapodos]

@LeBrok
As I said before, live in your illusion...

 

[Anton Bear's den]

The Russians have been the worst bullies of EU member states (mostly Eastern ones) in the last few years, by blackmailing them about gas prices and such..

lolz funny hahaha
And what we did so terrible for last 20 years? Helped to Germany unite without bloodshed? Or probably "bloody KGB" again plans to capture the whole world as always?
Gas? For the supply of resources is need to pay, free cheese only in a mousetrap. But some Ukranian policymakers thought that Russia is obligated to provide them by resources for free, eternally . After "orange revolution" in Ukraine (by the way, sponsored by the West countries) new Ukranian politicians started very anti-Russian policy. We began to think, "if they so hate us then why the hell we feed their economy by cheap gas??? lol (many post-Soviet states had discounts on Russia's resources before it, because Russia's solidarity with transitional development period of economies of these states). Today it changed, no money = no resources. And Prices always were within of average market prices, so, where is "blackmailing"??? All fairly... :grin:

I wish that the Russian government would have a more positive attitude towards other European countries, but there is a lot of hurt feelings to mend.

I wish too that governments of Eastern European countries became smarter as soon as possible. They definitely have some problems with it:
Typical example is Polish unreasonably hysterical behavior with Kaczynski which openly represented Russia as enemy without reasons, even waited fictitious Russia's military aggression on Poland hahahaha and required the presence of America in Poland (and still demand). This is called "P-A-R-A-N-O-I-A".
Baltic countries - Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia by the way of thinking still somewhere in the middle of 1939 and the end of 1945 , these "Red scum wanna enslave us! Panic!!!" hahahaha Also they destroying old Soviet monuments and glorify the survived nazi legionnaires on the government level (!), allows nazi parades. We need probably to build some Stalin monuments on the Red Square? lol
I simply don't understand these countries, what the hell they want? Russia does not even think to touch them.

As for "Axis Paris-Berlin+/-Moscow (lol)". This is the only real hope for those who really want a unified independent Europe. Paris-Berlin is backbone of modern EU, Brussels has no real power still. Must notice, there is no London there. United Kingdom (with all my respect to wonderful British people & culture) serve politically to Uncle Sam after Suez Crisis of 1956 year, I guess Britain have not much of trust because of it.
Some sources:
http://www.rp.pl/artykul/28,606630-Z-Moskwa-rozmawiajcie-za-posrednictwem-Unii.html
http://www.ilfoglio.it/soloqui/6646
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/world/europe/26iht-politicus.html?_r=3
http://www.slate.fr/story/28927/sommet-deauville-france-allemagne-russie
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,723852,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/world/europe/19iht-summit.html?_r=1&src=twrhp
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1020/1224281544203.html
http://www.naszdziennik.pl/index.php?typ=dd&dat=20101020&id=main
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/19/us-france-summit-eu-russia-idUSTRE69I2YF20101019
http://www.lefigaro.fr/mon-figaro/2...1-pour-une-alliance-economique-euro-russe.php
http://www.fenetreeurope.com/php/page.php?section=chroniques&id=0677
http://www.yvelinesradio.com/infos_all/affichage_all_01_489716576612_1733.html

 

[Regulus]

Well, I don't want to argue with you about politics in Balkan, because I see your opinions are already very well formed, exactly the way the CNN and the rest of "independent" media wanted to be.
You said:
"Well, you can't blame the USA for all of the bombs on your country. That was a mission run by NATO commanders and the UN. If you want to blame anyone, blame yourself and your fellow countrymen for electing Slobodan Milosevic as your leader."
And I can ask you, are the children of Serbia to blame for that?
I will remind you that NATO led by Americans bombed some purely civilian targets:
Hospital Dragiša Mišović in the centre of Belgrade. Results: dead patients and medical personels.
Television of Serbia, also in the centre of Belgrade. Result: 16th dead journalists
Passenger train in Grdelica. Result: dead passengers, many childrens among them.
Bridge in town Varvarin. Result: killed all civilians who appeared to be on the bridge.
And I already mention Milica Rakić, three year old girl, who was killed in bathroom of her own house. Was she also to blame for Milošević politics? Does she also deserve to be killed for the peace of rest the world?
And that is not end of the list...
I could never justified crimes of my nation toward any other nation and I never will. But obviously you are ready to justify what Americans did in Balkan, and want to cover that with that "humanitarian" excuses.
Or maybe you are lead by Machiavelli's : The end justifies the means.

A major point here is that the amount of non-combatants casualties inflicted by the NATO forces was probably less than 1% of the total of the same caused by their opponents.

The loss of any child is gutwrenching, especially in that manner. I hope that those responsible for what may well have been incompetent decisions were punished.

At some point, people are going to have to admit to themselves that CNN is, if anything, closer to being against the US than for it.

 

[LeBrok]

Anton, reread your post and think about your attitude. This is exactly Russian government attitude, past and present.
- ridicule other countries, or other's point of view, etc.
- don't care for smaller countries, though they are your neighbors.
- don't treat the smaller/less powerful countries like friends. Russia is so big and powerful why should we? F... them, they don't mean anything, “we don't even think about them”.
- only make friends and respect strong ones, Germany and France.
- last couple of times Russia made friends with Germany or Prussia all central and east European countries vanished. Why should Poland be afraid of next Ribbentrop/Molotov pact, hmmmm?

My friend, you are riding your imperialistic horse so high that you can't even see suffering of ordinary Russians. Even compared to Poland, most Russians live under poverty line. Get you house in order and take care of you citizens first. They are poor, they are exhausted and dying from alcoholism. For god sake, your government is still killing journalists, like the old ways. Clean up your house first, treat smaller countries like friends, so they are not afraid of Putin and alike. Find another Gorbatchov for this matter; he was a good Russian and citizen of the world.

Why would you think that Germany wants alliance with Russia? You have twice the people but twice smaller GDP. In case of this relationship going soure will you run for USA help again? I don't think Russia was strong enough to beat Germany in WW2 by itself. Tushonka anyone? Maybe a Jeep, truck or oil?, or grain from Canada? Should I mention technology transfers?
Can you find me Russian statistical/scientific documents about this help? Or Stalin burned them all from all the shame, and you didn't even learn about this in soviet schools?

Ask yourself a question. Why all the eastern and central European countries hated SU and now hate Russia? Is it from all the love you brought to their countries? Or maybe you brought them an economic prosperity like US in Germany and Japan? Or maybe you brough them democracy and all the freedoms? Or maybe you saved them from dying in mass graves and gulags in Siberia?
No? So why are you surprised?

 

[Anton Bear's den]

hahahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahaha are you a Canadian-Pole???
Nothing new, typical list of stamps. Let's see them closely:
First of all wanna say that your visions of Russia is outdated dramatically.

My friend, you are riding your imperialistic horse so high that you can't even see suffering of ordinary Russians. Even compared to Poland, most Russians live under poverty line. Get you house in order and take care of you citizens first. They are poor, they are exhausted and dying from alcoholism. For god sake, your government is still killing journalists, like the old ways.

Myth №1 "Suffering as in hell of ordinary Russians" are you sure comrade?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland

Difference in GDP per capita in Poland and Russia in 2010 is minimal. Especially given that Poland is much smaller and receives subsidy from European Union. Russia's GDP per capita grew from 4.500 of $ in 2000 year to 15.800 $ in 2010. Medical expenses have increased by 5 times in 10 years, average wages of the population has grown from $ 100 to $ 700 per month, unemployment today lower than in France (around 6-7%), powerty index became lower from 29% in 2000 year to 15% in 2009.

Alcoholism is still a problem, around 18 litres of alcohol average per year for a man is a big number (red line is 8 litres), but it more prone to the old soviet generation, not new one.

"your government is still killing journalists" when in 90s we had "democratic Boris Yeltsin" (1991-1999) the number of killed journalists were in 3 times higher than from 2000-2010 year. And who the hell said you that it's "government" killing journalists? lol hahaha on the contrary, government toughens penalties for murder and beaten of journalists. Journalists receive danger of being killed when they dig up someone's corruption, it can be anyone who are not interested to show own sins to the public.
http://www.centpapiers.com/rio-grande-un-autre-regard-sur-la-russie/49900/comment-page-1
http://www.rosbalt.ru/2011/02/02/815134.html

Find another Gorbatchov for this matter; he was a good Russian and citizen of the world.

99% of my compatriots hate that man. He is a dreamer which can only talk and nothing more. Only retarded Soviet political system could give him a power. We don't blame him for the withdrawal of troops from Eastern Europe, it was necessarily, but 99% of my comrades sincerely hate him for his policy inside of USSR.

Germany wants alliance with Russia? You have twice the people but twice smaller GDP. In case of this relationship going soure will you run for USA help again? I don't think Russia was strong enough to beat Germany in WW2 by itself. Tushonka anyone? Maybe a Jeep, truck or oil?, or grain from Canada? Should I mention technology transfers?
Can you find me Russian statistical/scientific documents about this help? Or Stalin burned them all from all the shame, and you didn't even learn about this in soviet schools?.

You definitely a Pole hahahaha they have a fear not only Russia, but and Germany too hahahaha still hahaha. We (Russians) don't consider Germans as the enemies, moreover we have not complexes with them despite that we lost a lot of good people in WWII. The Germans are sincere when they are condemn Nazism, today. I do not think that a anti-German paranoia is a good idea.
About Lend Lease. First, Britain got in 3 times more Lend Lease goods & equipment from USA than USSR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Лэндлиз
Lend Lease was very useful for us and we very grateful to allies for it, but no need to overvalue it anyway. It came with a large delays (in 1942 year we got only 30% of agreed volume for example) and Lend Lease was just about 5-10% of what Soviet Union produced during WWII. We paid price by our people & blood while Canadians & Americans just sat on their asses at home .

Ask yourself a question. Why all the eastern and central European countries hated SU and now hate Russia?

Is it from all the love you brought to their countries? Or maybe you brought them an economic prosperity like US in Germany and Japan? Or maybe you brough them democracy and all the freedoms? Or maybe you saved them from dying in mass graves and gulags in Siberia?
No? So why are you surprised?

Why you think that "all" eastern and central European countries hated SU??? That's not so, Yugoslavia did not hate, modern Moldova don't hate, Eastern and Southern Ukraine don't hate, Belorussia don't hate too, I bet modern Germany is glad that we gave them East Germany without big problems. Really hate Soviet Union foaming at the mouth only Poland, Baltic States and Western pro-nazi Ukraine (Galicia), + maybe Romania or some Finnish warm patriots.
No need to blame USSR for killing "in millions" of simple people in Eastern Europe because after WWII and Stalin's death in 1953 we did not kill anyone there. Well, there was several suppressions of uprisings by tanks :innocent: and it's shamefully :ashamed2:, but had an alternative the communists during the Cold War??? I don't think so. Maybe was several thousands of dissidents in Gulag camps aslo :innocent:, but that drop in the ocean from statements of different democratic bullshit screamers kinda "millions and millions of innocent freedom loving europeans were murdered by damn bloody commies in dirty smelly siberian camps" lol
There is no saints also, no need to turn Soviet Union into total scapegoat. For example my favourite Poland , that "eternal victim and pure angel" executed from 60 to 80 thousands of Soviet prisoners of war in 1920 year, shame on Poland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camps_for_Russian_prisoners_and_internees_in_Poland_(1919–1924)
Poland occupied Vilnius region of Lithuania in 1920 year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_War
Poland also occupied Těšín region of Czechoslovakia in cooperation with Hitler in 1938 year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement

That by the way is not only communist blame that they got half of Europe after the war, commies did not started WWII and Stalin (despite the fact that he was *******) never had ambitions/plans to take half or the whole Europe, only Hitler dreamed. There is a blame also on the western countries like Britain and France which favored to Hitler before the WWII by their policy of appeasement and concessions. France and Britain also did not want to sign a agrement against Nazi Germany with Soviet Union in case of their agression. And when war started and Germany attacked Poland, France/Britain did not absolutely nothing to help Poland in September-October of 1939.
Anyway it's a separate topic to discuss what the hell commies did in Europe and how they have appeared there.

USA did not brought economic prosperity to Germany and Japan lol it's their diligence and work on the bugs brought them prosperity after several bloody wars.

Yeah yeah, they (small offended countries) want love and respect from Russia, but can give only contempt and a growl in return, no thanks
I recommend to all offended take example from Finland & their government, they don't create unnecessary problems and awaken our consciences :ashamed2: in same time.
http://www.polityka.pl/swiat/rozmowy/1512266,1,rozmowa-z-premier-finlandii.read#axzz1E7hD5dJC

 

[LeBrok]

hahahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahaha are you a Canadian-Pole???

Explain what's so funny about this?
I have Russian, Byelorussian, Moldavian, Ukrainian, Danish, English, Australian, etc friends here in Canada. Is this funny too, for some reason only known to you?

executed from 60 to 80 thousands of Soviet prisoners of war in 1920 year

Why do you use term "executed" if the concensus (from site which you linked) is that they died of desises. Did you get the numbers from old Soviet books? ...ah, then we have to trust them....

During the Polish-Soviet War, between 80,000-85,000[3] Soviet soldiers became prisoners of war, and were held in Polish POW camps. The conditions in these camps were bad. Thus, the existing camps, many of which were adapted from World War I German and Russian facilities or constructed by the prisoners themselves, were not adequate for holding the large number of prisoners, who suffered from hunger, bad sanitation and inadequate hygiene. Between 16,000-17,000 (Polish figures)[3] and 18,000-20,000 (Russian figures)[3] died, mostly as a result of catastrophic conditions and epidemics which raged in the camps. Before publications of new findings in Russia in 2004, some Russian sources were known to give a much inflated numbers for prisoners and the death toll (up to 165,000 and 70,000), respectively. This matter caused much controversy between Poland and Russia

In case if you forgot what execution and official policy of extermination is look for thousands of mass graves on Russian soil. The sculls are marked by a round hole at the back, the signature of typical NKVD execution. Also, look for millions berried around gulags, who died according to official policy of working to death. Minorities and Russians as well, but Russia is known as not caring for their own citizens either, so many, so extendable.

Where did you get an idea that I believe in notion of “angel” countries??? We all have a baggage of uneasy history, and we all have to deal with this. Sweeping Russian or Soviet crimes under the rug won’t work either. Your ridiculing other's point of view or a person you argue with is totally rude and close minded. You should listen to other sides of stories, this should help you undo many years of Soviet propaganda and russo- centrism. You're not that special, so try making friends not enemies.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Explain what's so funny about this?
I have Russian, Byelorussian, Moldavian, Ukrainian, Danish, English, Australian, etc friends here in Canada. Is this funny too, for some reason only known to you?.

You reminded me a Pole, they have pretty funny mentality from my point of view.

Why do you use term "executed" if the concensus (from site which you linked) is that they died of desises. Did you get the numbers from old Soviet books? ...ah, then we have to trust them....

Wikipedia not very reliable source of information when it touch to the exact details. There even different language versions of articles have different information inside. I gave that link just to show that such fact was in history. Poland in 99% of cases just play a role of victim, I wanted to destroy such myth. Many sources talk about 60-80 thousands of people. Yes, they are Russian, but Poles use own sources constantly when they talk about Stalin crime in Katyn (20-25 thousands of Poles). Why we can't?
These people were executed because they died in Polish camps from hunger and bullying, disease simply a consequence of hunger. Poles wanted to have these people killed 100%. Polish leader (he was a dictator) at that time Marshal Pilsudski was a pure russophobe. By the way, to die slowly because of hunger is much worse than dying from a fast bullet in the neck, believe me.

Also, look for millions berried around gulags, who died according to official policy of working to death. Minorities and Russians as well, but Russia is known as not caring for their own citizens either, so many, so extendable.

For the whole 70 years of Soviet history in GULAG (General Directorate of labor camps, labor settlements and places of detention) died around 2.3 million of people (almost all in Stalinist period), 15 million prisoners in total. It terrible thing in our history, yes, but that our people went through it, not foreigners. I also not trying to justify commies, yes we had web of camps where people worked right up to the death. That not the death camps in nazi style, but absolutely nothing to be proud of too. But I don't understand your point, how the hell it can justify Polish marshall Pilsudski?

We all have a baggage of uneasy history, and we all have to deal with this. Sweeping Russian or Soviet crimes under the rug won’t work either. Your ridiculing other's point of view or a person you argue with is totally rude and close minded. You should listen to other sides of stories, this should help you undo many years of Soviet propaganda and russo- centrism. You're not that special, so try making friends not enemies.

I don't hide nothing. Commies did many terrible things on the border line with total insanity: bloody civil war (for us it was like second WWI if look on the casualties), collectivization (creation of inefficient collective farms), Gulag, the Stalinist repressions, aggression and the absorption of other countries, a dead-end economic policies of commies, lack of freedom in the communist system, etc.
But foreigners sometimes have a bad habit of blaming the USSR in all own mistakes and sins. I talked already about Poland, let's look on some other "innocent lambs" which scream sometimes about "bad commie occupiers":
Romania - Hitler's ally in WWII
Hungary - Hitler's ally in WWII
Austria - in some sense Hitler's ally, fought for Third Reich. Hitler's troops were greeted with flowers and shouts of joy.
Czechoslovakia - never resisted to nazi occupation, moreover played a role of military factory of the Third Reich, build 1/3 of tanks for nazis of perfect quality for the whole war, self-propelled artillery, armored troop-carriers etc...
Sweden - supplied Hitler by iron ore.
Pro-Hitler policy of Britain and France before the WWII + ignominious Treaty of Versailles in 1918 which provoked Germany again on aggression. In accordance with this agreement, Germany was obliged to pay payments to Britain and France right up to the 1990 year. This is ridiculous, what their heads thought about?

Regulus
No, I don't support none of the statements which you trying to attribute to me, read carefully.

 

[Regulus]

You reminded me a Pole, they have pretty funny mentality from my point of view.


Wikipedia not very reliable source of information when it touch to the exact details. There even different language versions of articles have different information inside. I gave that link just to show that such fact was in history. Poland in 99% of cases just play a role of victim, I wanted to destroy such myth. Many sources talk about 60-80 thousands of people. Yes, they are Russian, but Poles use own sources constantly when they talk about Stalin crime in Katyn (20-25 thousands of Poles). Why we can't?
These people were executed because they died in Polish camps from hunger and bullying, disease simply a consequence of hunger. Poles wanted to have these people killed 100%. Polish leader (he was a dictator) at that time Marshal Pilsudski was a pure russophobe. By the way, to die slowly because of hunger is much worse than dying from a fast bullet in the neck, believe me.


For the whole 70 years of Soviet history in GULAG (General Directorate of labor camps, labor settlements and places of detention) died around 2.3 million of people (almost all in Stalinist period), 15 million prisoners in total. It terrible thing in our history, yes, but that our people went through it, not foreigners. I also not trying to justify commies, yes we had web of camps where people worked right up to the death. That not the death camps in nazi style, but absolutely nothing to be proud of too. But I don't understand your point, how the hell it can justify Polish marshall Pilsudski?


I don't hide nothing. Commies did many terrible things on the border line with total insanity: bloody civil war (for us it was like second WWI if look on the casualties), collectivization (creation of inefficient collective farms), Gulag, the Stalinist repressions, aggression and the absorption of other countries, a dead-end economic policies of commies, lack of freedom in the communist system, etc.
But foreigners sometimes have a bad habit of blaming the USSR in all own mistakes and sins. I talked already about Poland, let's look on some other "innocent lambs" which scream sometimes about "bad commie occupiers":
Romania - Hitler's ally in WWII
Hungary - Hitler's ally in WWII
Austria - in some sense Hitler's ally, fought for Third Reich. Hitler's troops were greeted with flowers and shouts of joy.
Czechoslovakia - never resisted to nazi occupation, moreover played a role of military factory of the Third Reich, build 1/3 of tanks for nazis of perfect quality for the whole war, self-propelled artillery, armored troop-carriers etc...
Sweden - supplied Hitler by iron ore.
Pro-Hitler policy of Britain and France before the WWII + ignominious Treaty of Versailles in 1918 which provoked Germany again on aggression. In accordance with this agreement, Germany was obliged to pay payments to Britain and France right up to the 1990 year. This is ridiculous, what their heads thought about?

I thought that it would be a good idea to make sure I understand your points; are you actually saying that we can't be sure of what happened in the Katyn Forest?

Also, are you trying to put Pilduski and Stalin in the same discussion?

 

[LeBrok]

Anton, please lay of Soviet history books. We all know how honest and true they were.
All you doing now is demonizing other countries just to excuse Russian crimes. It doesn't work this way. Even worse, you ridicule people or nations, who demand justice and apology for horrendous Soviet years, murders, genocides and lost decades.
For last 200 years Poland was about 160 years under Russian occupation. Now, should I get you a list of crimes Russian committed during this long time as a ruler? Or you just stop comparing and washing off Russian hands, just because in Soviet history books it was suggested that Poles "executed" Russian POWs?

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Anton, please lay of Soviet history books. We all know how honest and true they were

Yeah, I am probably should take Canadian or American books to really realize the whole "depth of democracy": that it's Americans did the whole work in WWII, that brave Canadians took Berlin, that Germans & Russians it's all about genocides of other nations and .... such total "democratization".

All you doing now is demonizing other countries just to excuse Russian crimes. It doesn't work this way. Even worse, you ridicule people or nations, who demand justice and apology for horrendous Soviet years, murders, genocides and lost decades.

Ohh Really??? Damn, I thought on the contrary that I recognized crimes of the past. Or maybe you just need some eyeglasses for reading?
They already don't demand nothing, no justice, no apology. All in what interested different russophobes of Eastern Europe is continuation of the existing status quo the sense of which in non-stop hating of Russia regardless from what we recognize or not, it's their bread. Nice example is reaction of Polish politicians after crash of the presidential plane at Smolensk with Polish elite. Immediately thereafter, the charges fell to Russia that it is supposedly Russian blame for the fact that the plane crashed. That Russians killed survived passengers, that it's Russian crafty plan etc... from my point of view such people are sick, they need to be treated in hospital. And you LeBrok defend and trying to justify the behavior of such people by events which happened 70 years ago or older.
Also, that all remind me a one-way road. I did not deny Soviet crimes, just drew attention to the fact that others are not angels too, but for LeBrok it's already enough to blame me in covering of dictators. Such a hypocritical and double standard position. I must say that you buddy have pretty strange vision of freedom of speech/opinion from my point of view.
Write me a list of all Russian crimes & genocides from day of Russia's foundation in 962 year, I will sign.
LeBrok by the way, do you heard about our tsar of XVI century Ivan IV the Terrible? That man loved to torture people in his dungeon very much (he actually enjoyed it) and in the same time always prayed for forgiveness of god because of it (he was extremely religious). Such sick bastard: sinned and repented, sinned and repented, sinned and repented, sinned and repented... lol

 

[Regulus]

Yeah, I am probably should take Canadian or American books to really realize the whole "depth of democracy": that it's Americans did the whole work in WWII, that brave Canadians took Berlin, that Germans & Russians it's all about genocides of other nations and .... such total "democratization".

.

No one on this side thinks that Americans, Canadians, and Brits did all of the work, nor did they ever. It does seem, though, that Russians are more likely to think that they in fact did do so.

The losses that the Soviet Union endured are almost beyond measure. That fact does not make it OK for them to run around using their own name for the war, a fact that by its very existence implies that they were in it alone.

There of course is a tremendous amount of room to debate what caused the decision to halt the movement from the West at the Elbe. I will not waste anyone's time bringing up facts, proofs, or possible evidence, but it is clear that taking Berlin was not something that only the Soviets could have done.

 

[LeBrok]

Anton, my point always was about fair treatment of even the smallest countries, fair and respectful treatment of us on Eupedia. You came with strong intensions of building alliance with strong ones, like Germany and France, disregarding all other European countries. You didn't get sympathetic ear from German members here at all, plus you didn't care for friends from other countries. I hope it will give you something to contemplate about for a while.

I'm sure you're a decent guy, just a bit lost growing up surrounded in history of powerful Russia. It's very tempting and hard to resist for Russians, but absolutely unnecessary in today’s world. Russia and others are better off when they work together within today's similar economic system and political one.
Show the rest of us a way, and lead by an example, build great things, take care of smaller nations,...just like Germans do today. You will gain friends, respect and admiration, like Germans did. That's a new way Anton, new Europe.

If you care for United Europe you are welcome to join. You know the rules.

 

[iapodos]

If you care for United Europe you are welcome to join. You know the rules.

Yes, Anton, sell your soul and enter...

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Anton, my point always was about fair treatment of even the smallest countries, fair and respectful treatment of us on Eupedia. You came with strong intensions of building alliance with strong ones, like Germany and France, disregarding all other European countries.

I never talked that I don't like or disrespect small countries. I just said that with several European countries Russia has/had constant problems which based on populist politicians which use old grievances in own sake, instead as to cooperate and solve them completely. Fortunately, the situation is changing. Poland already not so emotional after last presidential elections and shows more pragmatism.
http://wyborcza.pl/1,75515,8853113,Rozmowa_swietej_Polski_ze_swieta_Rosja.html?as=1&startsz=x
http://www.rp.pl/artykul/11,574852.html
Baltic countries very slowly, but start to thaw.
http://www2.la.lv/lat/latvijas_avize/jaunakaja_numura/redakcijas.viesis/?doc=94124
http://www.ir.lv/2010/12/22/zatlers-maskava
http://www.ilpost.it/2010/12/19/rapporti-russia-lettonia/
http://chas-daily.com/win/2011/02/10/l_004.html?r=30&
With Finland we have high-speed rail link, Helsinki-St Petersburg.
http://inotv.rt.com/2010-12-13/Allegro-svyazal-dve-severnie-stolici
http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/...-visa-free-travel-agreement-with-russia-.html

You comrade probably missed the whole point of that topic, that "Weimar Triangle" is not aimed to supress small countries or something, it just form of cooperation among main European countries. Moreover Poland is a member of it too already. Paris-Berlin-Warsaw - and + Moscow, it's already "Weimar rectangle" or something.
http://wyborcza.pl/1,75478,9075468,Po_co_nam_reanimacja_Trojkata_Weimarskiego.html
It also initiative of France and Germany, not Russia. Target probably is further integration and coordination of views. There is absolutely nothing dangerous for small countries. On the contrary I think it pushes the common European project further strongly.

It's very tempting and hard to resist for Russians, but absolutely unnecessary in today’s world. Russia and others are better off when they work together within today's similar economic system and political one.

Agree, but we can't love and respect those who hate us. Only on the basis of reciprocity.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Yes, Anton, sell your soul and enter...

Relax man, your government "already sold it's soul" to EU
http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Sta-da-se-radi/Parada-evrozahteva.sr.html
even more
http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Politika/Srbija-izmedju-neutralnosti-i-atlantskih-integracija.lt.html
http://www.danas.rs/danasrs/dijalog/srbija_i_nato.46.html?news_id=209624
If honestly, I think NATO is dead organisation, I don't understand why Serbian government of Tadić even think about membership there.

There of course is a tremendous amount of room to debate what caused the decision to halt the movement from the West at the Elbe. I will not waste anyone's time bringing up facts, proofs, or possible evidence, but it is clear that taking Berlin was not something that only the Soviets could have done.

That exactly what I am talking about. I already met several Americans which with all seriousness and frankly thought that USA ALONE won in WWII. I am was shocked a little bit. Probably they just too many times watched "save private Ryan" lol

 

[Regulus]

Relax man, your government "already sold it's soul" to EU
http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Sta-da-se-radi/Parada-evrozahteva.sr.html
even more
http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Politika/Srbija-izmedju-neutralnosti-i-atlantskih-integracija.lt.html
http://www.danas.rs/danasrs/dijalog/srbija_i_nato.46.html?news_id=209624
If honestly, I think NATO is dead organisation, I don't understand why Serbian government of Tadić even think about membership there.


That exactly what I am talking about. I already met several Americans which with all seriousness and frankly thought that USA ALONE won in WWII. I am was shocked a little bit. Probably they just too many times watched "save private Ryan" lol

Then it appears that you, without any fault of your own, met several idiots who failed their middle and high school history classes.


Also, you quoted the wrong part of my post to answer me.

 

[iapodos]

Relax man, your government "already sold it's soul" to EU

If honestly, I think NATO is dead organisation, I don't understand why Serbian government of Tadić even think about membership there.

I also don't understand but who can understand idiotic serbian government.
Real Serbs will never sell their souls, and this puppet government will not last for long. Till the end of this year I suppose.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Then it appears that you, without any fault of your own, met several idiots who failed their middle and high school history classes.


Also, you quoted the wrong part of my post to answer me.

I don't made conclusions hahahaha I know that USA have more than 500 nations inside and from my experience of communicating with the Americans I know that there is huge plurality of views. In general, for me is very difficult to perceive USA as something unified/monolithic.
But several features of American mentality I anyway have noticed already. For example, watch that video of Reagan's campaign commercials from 1984 (probably the most popular president in USA history, is not it?).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpwdcmjBgNA
I see funny alternatives/dilemma of American consciousness: Bear is axis of evil or hand pet hahahahaha absolutely no halftones, such funny mentality. Why I am not surprised that LeBrok (Canadians are the same as Americans) wishes to re-write our history books? hahahaha

 

[LeBrok]

You just love ridiculing others, if only for the sake of ridiculing. You can't help, can you?
Maybe some self criticism now. It shouldn't be difficult knowing how messed up Russia was for a very ling time.

Was you job a "provocateur" in KGB department?

 

[Anton Bear's den]

You just love ridiculing others, if only for the sake of ridiculing. You can't help, can you?

You know, we damn commie infidels are never changing, only grave can fix us :banghead:. Don't understand second sentence, you need some help?

Maybe some self criticism now. It shouldn't be difficult knowing how messed up Russia was for a very ling time.

Funny to hear it from descendants of the colonists which not so long ago hunted on redskin indians like on the wild animals, took their lands by force and placed them all in isolated reservation camps for slow extinction :innocent:.
But don't worry, this does not mean that I don't like Canucks :lover:.

Was you job a "provocateur" in KGB department?

Yeah, Mr.Putin is behind my back right now, tells what to write. OMG, KGB is disbanded a long time ago and me is only 20 years old

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