Politics Axis Paris-Moscow-Berlin - the foundation of the new Europe

[LeBrok]

How about changing your tone? Less ridiculing and more dialogue and respect for others?
How about response to iapodos who craves attention of big Russian bear? I believe we talked about ignoring the small ones. Attitude, attitude, attitude.

 

[Regulus]

Ah yes, now I understand how you have met your several Americans who were not aware about Russia's contributions to WWII - how could you not have met them in your 20 long years of life?

Why, in five or six years, you will probably know more than I do about what Americans think!

 

[Regulus]

Ah yes, now I understand how you have met your several Americans who were not aware about Russia's contributions to WWII - how could you not have met them in your 20 long years of life?

Why, in five or six years, you will probably know more than I do about what Americans think!

Maybe my mood is up from watching the cult classic "Red Dawn" last night!

The acting is horrible, but the storyline brings ones thoughts right back to the 80!:embarassed:

 

[Anton Bear's den]

How about changing your tone? Less ridiculing and more dialogue and respect for others?

hahaha And what is wrong with my tone, comrade? I so much respect Canada that you simply can't realise it. Especially respect for the Canadian hockey team :grin:. I ridicule for my own pleasure, not to offend anybody. You Canucks don't like to laugh?

How about response to iapodos who craves attention of big Russian bear?

Don't know about "crave of attention", but looks like your conversation with him went into deadlock. Iapodos don't like NATO because this military block bombed his country in 1999 while NATO supporters trying to lay all the blame on the Serbs. I recommend to look on the root of the problem. We have saying in Russia "No smoke without fire".
From 1918 to 1945 there was a "The Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Slovenes,_Croats_and_Serbs
That kingdom was created with help of Entente (France and Britain after WWI, probably to resist possible Austrian/German & Turkish influence in the future on the Balkans). Later, "Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" was created by Josip Broz Tito after WWII (ethnically he was Croat-Slovenian).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito
Josip Broz Tito was leader of Yugoslavia from 1945-1980 and had great respect among nations which lived inside of Yugoslavia. But when he died in 1980 there started the growth of separatist sentiments. Fact is that, Josip Broz Tito supported the politic of further Albanisation in Kosovo, invited the Albanians to live there to show that in "socialist federal Yugoslavia, all nations can live in peace" probably. He maybe even did not think what consequences this may entail.
The ethnic composition of Kosovo and Metohija from year to year, in %:
Year-Albanians-Serbs-Others in %
1871-32-64-4
1948-68-27-5
1971-74-21-5
1981-77-15-8
1991-82-11-7
2000-88-7-5
2007-92-5-3
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Косово_и_Метохия#.D0.9D.D0.B0.D1.81.D0.B5.D0.BB.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B5

When Tito died, and Serbs met with the growth of separatist currents, they started to repress it in old style. But it can help only when few want to separate, unfortunately that not in case of Yugoslavia. Starting from late 80s/early 90s Yugoslavia drowned in blood and this attracted the attention of "different lovers of forced arse democratization" (such like USA & NATO) which bombed Serbians into the ground. Such a sad story.

I believe we talked about ignoring the small ones. Attitude, attitude, attitude.

For me is interesting to hear opinions of "small ones". But I have no idea why they keep silence. Probably have nothing to say or something...

Maybe my mood is up from watching the cult classic "Red Dawn" last night!

The acting is horrible, but the storyline brings ones thoughts right back to the 80!:embarassed:

I watched that movie, more delusional interpretation of communist invasion into US is difficult to imagine. Goddamn, my comrades in that movie looks like latino-arabians or something, and their accent is so terrifically bad that I think creators of the movie invented "second Russian language". I wached it like a comedy

 

[Regulus]

hahaha
I watched that movie, more delusional interpretation of communist invasion into US is difficult to imagine. Goddamn, my comrades in that movie looks like latino-arabians or something, and their accent is so terrifically bad that I think creators of the movie invented "second Russian language". I wached it like a comedy

The Spanish in the movie is not so great either. It is spoken in a manner that makes English subtitles almost completely unnecessary for a person that took a single semester of Spanish I. Did the Soviet Union make a reverse movie? If they did I would want to see it.

Hey, movies are to entertain, so why not enjoy the ride?


The only point that I would make was that one would have had to either read the all of the news on a regular basis during that time, or read a detailed history of that period to get even the slightest 'feel' for what events would have come together to make that scenario happen. The opening prologue sets the mood for the whole movie:

Soviet Union suffers worst wheat harvest in 55 years…

Labor and food riots in Poland. Soviet troops invade…

Cuba and Nicaragua reach troop strength goals of 500,000.
El Salvador and Honduras fall…

Greens Party gains control of West German Parliament.
Demands withdrawal of nuclear weapons from European soil…

Mexico plunged into revolution…

NATO dissolves.
United States stands alone.

I remember the massive street demonstrations against Reagan's move to put cruise missiles in Europe. Things were looking really ugly for a while. I myself have felt that the Soviet Union was governed by people who were culturally western and therefore were, ultimately, unlikely to actually trigger a war with the US.

Don’t forget that the movie is also slightly anti-US government too. Note that the Nicaraguan Captain at one point orders his troops to go to the locations from which firearms are sold and collect all of the Bureau of Tobacco and Firearms’ firearms transaction form 4473. Doing so would provide them with information as to what persons have purchased firearms and their addresses. In this manner they could go to the residences that confiscate the weapons, thereby reducing the amount of firearms available to any resistance.

You think you're tough for eating beans every day? There's half a million scarecrows in Denver who'd give anything for one mouthful of what you got. They've been under siege for about three months. They live on rats and sawdust bread and sometimes... on each other. At night, the pyres for the dead light up the sky. It's medieval.
- The Colonel, Red Dawn

Eerie, isn’t it? The take Leningrad’s WWII scenario and replace it with Denver, Colorado.

 

[Anton Bear's den]

Did the Soviet Union make a reverse movie? If they did I would want to see it.

No, communists never created such kind of movies. Our culture a little bit different from American, communists usually created movies about WWII, about village life (lol), love, films based on classical books (Sherlock Holmes, for example), historical etc...

Hey, movies are to entertain, so why not enjoy the ride?

That exactly what I doing

But story of "Red Dawn" is extremely ridiculous:
"Soviet Union suffers worst wheat harvest in 55 years…"
That not the reason to attack anybody, rather the contrary.

"Labor and food riots in Poland. Soviet troops invade"
Ok, if Poles rebelled then Soviets had not choice in conditions of the Cold War, only to suppress a rebellion. But that have nothing to do with US.

"Cuba and Nicaragua reach troop strength goals of 500,000.
El Salvador and Honduras fall…"
Such a "strong force" . Cuba is useful only because it very close to US, good platform for missiles.

"Greens Party gains control of West German Parliament.
Demands withdrawal of nuclear weapons from European soil…"
In such case USA relocate nukes to Britain = still impossible to invade + submarines with missiles and bombers...

"Mexico plunged into revolution..."
But that does not mean that my comrades could use mexican soil for invasion.

"NATO dissolves.
United States stands alone."
Even so, there is absolutely no sense to send army to faraway America to counquer it or something, it even difficult to imagine. Differences were ideological on 90%, other 10% is classic rivalry which exist and today.

In case of real war, communists could send the horde which they had on the western borders of Warsaw pact to destroy western Europe. In 70s there was concentrated around 20000 of tanks prepared for attack and 5 million army in avant-garde (in total Soviet Union alone had 64000 of tanks), air force of Warsaw pact surpassed in number NATO air forces also (in Europe). Chances were pretty high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee5Cq5P_DVU
But they never planned to send army in USA, communists planned to nuke it in case of war. Problem was that NATO could nuke us too. So war never happened.

Commies created huge empire, but lost everything because of inability to supply own population by consumer goods. One thing when you losing because of military force of enemy side, but to lose a war because the lack of jeans, beer and tomatoes in your shops??? lol... 100% morons.

Btw, Canadians are funny, found one video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CidsvjVOseI
According to it: Russians are corrupted vodka communists with lack of freedom, Americans are fat warmongers which lie all the time and only Canucks are nice

 

[Regulus]

No, communists never created such kind of movies. Our culture a little bit different from American, communists usually created movies about WWII, about village life (lol), love, films based on classical books (Sherlock Holmes, for example), historical etc...


That exactly what I doing

But story of "Red Dawn" is extremely ridiculous:
"Soviet Union suffers worst wheat harvest in 55 years…"
That not the reason to attack anybody, rather the contrary.

"Labor and food riots in Poland. Soviet troops invade"
Ok, if Poles rebelled then Soviets had not choice in conditions of the Cold War, only to suppress a rebellion. But that have nothing to do with US.

"Cuba and Nicaragua reach troop strength goals of 500,000.
El Salvador and Honduras fall…"
Such a "strong force" . Cuba is useful only because it very close to US, good platform for missiles.

"Greens Party gains control of West German Parliament.
Demands withdrawal of nuclear weapons from European soil…"
In such case USA relocate nukes to Britain = still impossible to invade + submarines with missiles and bombers...

"Mexico plunged into revolution..."
But that does not mean that my comrades could use mexican soil for invasion.

"NATO dissolves.
United States stands alone."
Even so, there is absolutely no sense to send army to faraway America to counquer it or something, it even difficult to imagine. Differences were ideological on 90%, other 10% is classic rivalry which exist and today.

In case of real war, communists could send the horde which they had on the western borders of Warsaw pact to destroy western Europe. In 70s there was concentrated around 20000 of tanks prepared for attack and 5 million army in avant-garde (in total Soviet Union alone had 64000 of tanks), air force of Warsaw pact surpassed in number NATO air forces also (in Europe). Chances were pretty high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee5Cq5P_DVU
But they never planned to send army in USA, communists planned to nuke it in case of war. Problem was that NATO could nuke us too. So war never happened.

Commies created huge empire, but lost everything because of inability to supply own population by consumer goods. One thing when you losing because of military force of enemy side, but to lose a war because the lack of jeans, beer and tomatoes in your shops??? lol... 100% morons.

Btw, Canadians are funny, found one video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CidsvjVOseI
According to it: Russians are corrupted vodka communists with lack of freedom, Americans are fat warmongers which lie all the time and only Canucks are nice

I'm quite amused by all the efforts made to try to disprove whether the events could ever have happened.
Of course Western Europe was a more likely target at the time.

I clearly have taken you off-topic. Your description of the events, trying to show that in reality all of them would have had to cause something other than an invasion, is nothing more than a Sophist-type argument.