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Thread: G2a origins: what to believe?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I ANSWER TO ME/ no offense, Moesan!
    short: it seems Slavs (Slovenes?) colonized the northern and central parts of East Tyrol before germanization (we know this germanization occurred late enough) but a) were only a ruling "elite" without demic impact b) were numerous and got back after sometime (defeated by Latins?) without too much crossings and mixing, leaving their pastures placenames (Slavs had the REPUTATION (based?) of for destroying and renaming) c)- = close to b) were sweaped out during the germanic colonization (all the way leaving romance population under germanic rulers, and also their placenames - d) a romance population immigrated under germanic domination??? (less sensible)
    The slovenes must have arrived with the ostrogoths or behind them and the retreated once the germanic people came from the north into bavaria and then into modern Austria and slovenia. IMO it must be no more than 2 centuries if that, but carnico, friulian, ladin and rhaeto languages where spoken there and are still spoken there today, so how much influence did these slovenes have...........maybe it was onlya small ruling party, which forced the name changes
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    But how can you explain that the haplogroup G is rather frequent on the
    fishermen island of Urk in the IJsselmeer in the Netherlands? The inhabitants
    are pure descendants of the ancient Dutchmen, in-breeding and 85% have light eyes, but more than 50% have dark hair. I suppose that they are mostly Borreby and Bruenn/Aurignac descendants. They cannot have Alanic ancestors.
    Y-DNA is being transferred from fathers to sons only. I reckon that makes it more prone to changes than any other genetic marker. If a father has only daughters - or if only daughters of his offspring survive long enough to have children - his autosomal DNA will continue to spread among the population. However, his Y-DNA will not. And the chance that fathers will have only daughters is not minimal, as our current monarch shows. That may indicate that the amount of certain Y-DNA, especially in small communities, may not represent the actual amount of input in that community by the original bearers of that haplogroup.

  3. #78
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    OK by the way, Alani were described by more than one as BLOND people, not dominantly DARK haired ones! but staying on the Y-DNA question (and its loose links with autosomals) I think true Alani were not Y-G2 for the most, surely more ont the Y-R1a side

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    OK by the way, Alani were described by more than one as BLOND people, not dominantly DARK haired ones! but staying on the Y-DNA question (and its loose links with autosomals) I think true Alani were not Y-G2 for the most, surely more ont the Y-R1a side
    What about I2a? It's possible that blond hair is actually from I2a folks or maybe not even from Y-DNA at all, but from mtDNA of females. I'm starting to believe that blond hair and white skin has nothing to do with R1a, because ancestor of R1a*, R1* was dark...

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    What about I2a? It's possible that blond hair is actually from I2a folks or maybe not even from Y-DNA at all, but from mtDNA of females. I'm starting to believe that blond hair and white skin has nothing to do with R1a, because ancestor of R1a*, R1* was dark...
    I'm not sure it will be useful for the remote origin of y-G2a but
    I was speaking about Alani a supposed iranic people of the steppes, and based upon the fact the most of steppic I-Ean tribes men had Y-R1a, I supposed (without any proof) the HG Y-R1a was heavier among them than Y-G2a, without exclude a certain % of this last HG
    I had not in mind that these steppic I-Ean analysed had AND mostly Y-R1a AND mostly fair hair, but it is a fact if not my point in my previous post -

    the genes for pigmentation and the Y-HG could not be linked one to another at the very beginning but statistically become linked at a point of History -
    don't forget too that if Y-R1* was dark pigmented, light pigmentation arose later among dark pigmented people so some depigmented Y-R1* could give birth later to lighter populations of Y-R1a or Y-R1b (not by force all of them)- or marry with a lot of light pigmented females previously linked to an other Y-HG and progressively take its light pigmentation - by the way I doubt proto-historic Y-I2a were mostly light pigmented for hair -



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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    G is found in 10-25% of males across all Iran and into Afghanistan/Pakistan, it also has the same presence in Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia region (Caucasus) and the Levantine coast. The Arabian peninsula and the central Middle East (Iraq,Syria) seem largely unaffected. This leads me to believe that G either originated near the Pamir knot region (Pakistan/Afghanistan) or on the Iranian peninsula itself, before migrating towards the Caucasus region heavily. From there the P15 branch shot towards south-Central Europe (Sardinia/southern italy). Look at the G map on Wikipedia, I am postulating an Iranian origin (G-M201) with a heavy movement solely towards the Caucasus region (G2a) with a small Neolithic arrival to south-central Mediterranean Europe.

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    G2a1a1 seems to have come to Georgia from the North, from Europe most probably. Another widespread G2a in the Caucasus - G2a3b seems to be local or Anatolian.

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    Maybe from the southernmost Caucasus region just to the north of Georgia were Abkhazia and Ossetia would lie?

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    G2a seems to be older than R1a in Europe.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by nr9 View Post
    G2a seems to be older than R1a in Europe.
    Yes it was in Europe before R1a, that's what ancient DNA tells us so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    OK by the way, Alani were described by more than one as BLOND people, not dominantly DARK haired ones! but staying on the Y-DNA question (and its loose links with autosomals) I think true Alani were not Y-G2 for the most, surely more ont the Y-R1a side
    DNA from the River Don tells us otherwise.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    OK by the way, Alani were described by more than one as BLOND people, not dominantly DARK haired ones! but staying on the Y-DNA question (and its loose links with autosomals) I think true Alani were not Y-G2 for the most, surely more ont the Y-R1a side

    And this is based on what?

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    Moesan, physical appearance is mostly influenced by admixture. R1b has a rather high occurence amongst people of Chad, Cameroon and Mali, yet they don't physically look similar to there European cousins, subclades aside.

    If they lived amongst R1a populations as they did in the North Western Caucasus and the steppes of South Eastern Ukraine, then there is a big chance these groups interacted and mixed.
    Last edited by TheHistorian2; 30-04-17 at 04:12.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    In a study conducted in 2014 by V.V. Ilyinskyon on bone fragments from 10 Alanic burials on the Don River, DNA could be abstracted from a total of 7. 4 of them turned out as belonging to yDNA Haplogroup G2 and 6 of them had mtDNA I. The fact that many of the samples share the same y- and mtDNA raises the possibility that the tested individuals belonged to the same tribe or even were close relatives. Nevertheless, this is a strong argument for direct Alan ancestry of Ossetians and against the hypothesis that Ossetians are alanized Caucasic Speakers, since the major Haplogroup among Ossetians is G2 either.
    In 2015 the Institute of Archaeology in Moscow conducted researches on various Sarmato-Alan and Saltovo-Mayaki culture Kurgan burials. In this analyses, the two Alan samples from 4th to 6th century AD turned out with yDNAs G2a-P15 and R1a-z94, while from the three Sarmatian samples from 2nd to 3rd century AD two turned out both with yDNA J1-M267 and one with R1a.[And the three Saltovo-Mayaki samples from 8th to 9th century AD turned out with yDNAs G, J2a-M410 and R1a-z94 respectively[

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