Who were Scythians?

[willy]

This is not enough they were not exclusively R1a this is not possible there are mixed DNA found for a paleolithic period so one haplogroup for a group and a cultural period as Scythians is curious they were mixed .

 

[Maciamo]

This is not enough they were not exclusively R1a this is not possible there are mixed DNA found for a paleolithic period so one haplogroup for a group and a cultural period as Scythians is curious they were mixed .

They were surely mixed, but their elite seemed to be overwhelmingly R1a1 based on the remains of several tombs scattered over very different locations, separated in time by many centuries.

If C3 did come only from the 4th century with the Turkic migrations, then the Scythians probably belong for the biggest part to R1a1 (I'd say over 60%, perhaps even 80%), with a sizeable N1 minority, some I2a2 and G1, and traces of R1b1b1, R1b1b2, G2a and J2.

 

[Wilhelm]

Well, the Pashtuns are 50% R1a, but this doesn't tell the whole story about ancestry since they are ethnically the same as their neighbours who don't have as much R1a

 

[how yes no 2]

Sorry to disappoint you but all* the ancient DNA tests done in Central Asia during the Scythian period (600 BCE - 300 AD) turned out to be exclusively R1a1. That's one of the best studied region in term of ancient Y-DNA. The older Andronovo samples were also R1a1, and so were the Tocharian ones from Xinjiang.
* 8 out of 8 skeletons in Scythian kurgans tested in 3 separate studies.

actually, following this clue, I wanted to see who are the indo-scythians who were the reason I decided later Turkish invasions couldnot have brought C3 so much south...

The Indo-Scythians are commonly thought to have been a branch of Sakas (Scythians), who migrated from southern Siberia into Bactria, Sogdiana, Arachosia, Gandhara, Kashmir, Punjab, Gujarat, Maharashtra and Rajasthan, from the middle of the 2nd century BCE to the 4th century CE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-scythians

Sakastan or Sakaistan or Sakasthan (Sanskrit: शकस्तान) is a term indicating certain regions of Western Afghanistan, Southwestern Pakistan and Eastern Iran where the Scythians or Sakas settled around 100 BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakastan

I think you might be right here...
indeed according to the position of Sakastan(Western Afghanistan, Southwestern Pakistan and Eastern Iran), Sakas tribe of Scythians who were Indo-Scythians seems to be R1a...

It is clear that the Greek and Latin scholars cited here believed, all Sakai were Scythians, but not all Scythians were Sakai.[4] It seems likely that modern confusion about the identity of the Scythians is partly due to the Persians. According to Herodotus, the Persians called all Scythians by the name Sakas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakas
this explains why R1a doesnot show traces of shape alike to Scythia...
they were just one of the tribes...

Btw. Arabs had similar name for Slavs - Sakalibe

however, this is area of Aria, so if they settled Aria only around 100BC than they couldnot have been Arians, which is contradictory from what we may expect based on haplogroup found in Brahmins

btw. next to Aria is island of C3 that made a whole in the R1a settled area... but Scythians / Sakas have supposedly come from south Sibir and C has come from Mongolia to east and little part went deep on south and settled next to Aria

actually this C came with Mongols of Genghis Khan

Back to Scytians

They were surely mixed, but their elite seemed to be overwhelmingly R1a1 based on the remains of several tombs scattered over very different locations, separated in time by many centuries.
If C3 did come only from the 4th century with the Turkic migrations, then the Scythians probably belong for the biggest part to R1a1 (I'd say over 60%, perhaps even 80%), with a sizeable N1 minority, some I2a2 and G1, and traces of R1b1b1, R1b1b2, G2a and J2.

this also makes sense...

e.g. G shows nice Scythia like spread...which cannot be seen with R1a since it came from further north anyway...

according to mix of haplogroups that you assume, Scythians seems to have been more cultural issue than a tribe...
I think original Scythians were G, while R1a were Sakas who were the largest Scythian tribe...
but I am not sure about N. It might have come with Turks..

Can it be that Scythians origin from Hittite who perhaps went to Caucasus after fall of their empire...?
Are G haplogroups alike in Caucasus, Iran and in Asia minor?

names do have some similarity
(S)Hettite => Scythian

 

[willy]

e.g. G shows nice Scythia like spread...which cannot be seen with R1a since it came from further north anyway...

according to mix of haplogroups that you assume, Scythians seems to have been more cultural issue than a tribe...
I think original Scythians were G, while R1a were Sakas who were the largest Scythian tribe...
but I am not sure about N. It might have come with Turks..

Can it be that Scythians origin from Hittite who perhaps went to Caucasus after fall of their empire...?
Are G haplogroups alike in Caucasus, Iran and in Asia minor?

names do have some similarity
(S)Hettite => Scythian

I do agree R1a is the forest I mean a huge distribution and we talk about a tribe in fact to find some R1a is usual but an elite is few always and G seems a good candidate for this elite as the original group of the Scythians a large population of R1a does not mean they are at the origin how many people speak English or Spanish over the world ? are they come from the first Anglo Saxon tribes or the first Iberians " latinazed" ?

 

[LeBrok]

N came from Uralic tribes to Iranians/Scytians and with them went South. Look at north Europe, there is so much N there.

 

[how yes no 2]

looking at map above, I think original Scythians were dominantly G2a (perhaps also J2 and I) because R1a seems a bit foreign to area of Caucasus, but G2a and I are much better in place there...

however it does fit trajectory of Scythians better than G2a does... and Caucasus was strategic place with lot of traffic... so R1a might have passed it but its trace could have been erased by subsequent movements of G2, J2 and I...

I think haplogroup I was dominant in Sarmatians who I propose origin dominantly from Cimmerians
(see http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26070)
and we do know that G2a is mark of Sarmatian Alani and is very dominant in Ossetians who are considered to origin from Alani... note that north Ossetians also have significant I haplogroup...
So I think Scythians were mainly carriers of R1a afterall, and G2a and I2a2 together made Sarmatians..
in fact what happened is that Sarmatians have pushed Scythians out of Caucasus

and pockets of R1a stayed south of Caucasus assimilated... and showing R1a islands there...

 

[how yes no 2]

Btw. Scythians dressed like this

note the very interesting, very Scythian, look of cap in national clothes of Balkar people

The Balkars (Karachay-Balkar: sg. таулу - tawlu, pl. таулула - tawlula) are a Turkic people of the Caucasus region, one the titular populations of Kabardino-Balkaria. Their Karachay-Balkar language is of the Ponto-Caspian subgroup of the Northwestern (Kypchak) group of Turkic languages.

The origins of the Balkar people have not yet been definitively established: various hypotheses have associated them with the Huns, the Khazars, the Bulgars, the Alans, the Zikhs, the Brukhs, the Kipchaks (Qïpchaqs, Polovtsians), the Vengrians, the Chekhs, the Mongol Tatars, the Crimean Tatars, and Turkicized Japhetic groups. Some contemporary scholars attribute their origin to a cultural conglomeration of northern Caucasian tribes with the Iranian-speaking Alans and with Turkish-speaking tribes, among which the most significant were probably the Black Bulgars and the Western Kipchaks. Elements of Balkar culture indicate a long association with the Near East, the Mediterranean, the rest of the Caucasus, and Russia. In the pre-Mongol period (before the thirteenth century) the Balkars were part of the Alan union of tribes, but after the Mongol invasion they retreated into the canyons of the central Caucasus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkars

 

[iapetoc]

although it seems that this has nothing to do, may i remind you,
that in case of callash

ALEXANDER THE GREAT,
And the big G ratio in Greek Makedonia
cause i m also a G2 makedonian

 

[XipeTotek]

scythians mostly r1a group of the central asian tribe. they are union like a hunnic empire. and i dont think they speaking only iran language, also turkic.

scythians culture is a harmonize culture of west iranian/turkic

if we wanna get contact with genetics/also culture altai/sakha turks mostly descent of them. today sakha turks say for yourself we come from scythians/saka. this show us these peoples contact so much. and i think scythians a reason for why central asians have so much r1a hablogroup.(most high degree on the world the altaians.) if anyone says our ancestors are scythians these people firstly must be sogdians/osetians /central asian turkic peoples and i think eastern europeans too(slavs)