Interesting R1a/Ostrogothic correlation?

[Illyri]

I do not understand Russian so it is difficult for me to grasp the context of the maps and thé related comments. Is there any information on that forum about the younger subclades of R-Y2902 belonging to the western branch ?
I assume that R-YP3994 should be part of them given its geographic spread

[AxelHagen]

I have no information about western branch maybe because it's very rare. But it's interesting that this branch can be found in WE. In Russian sources sometimes it associated with Goths, sometimes with Slavs

[AxelHagen]

[Illyri]

However, it is difficult to draw a general conclusion and the possible "gothic" link would be limited to certain subclades.

According to FTDNA's big tree, R-Y2902's "mother" clade is mainly present in:

- Russia (29,12 % of R-CTS8816 carriers); and
- Poland (25,59 % of R-CTS8816 carriers).

While only a minority originates from Western Europe, i.e.:

- Germany (6.47 % of R-CTS8816 carriers);
- Italy (2,06 % of R-CTS8816 carriers);
- France (1,47 % of R-CTS8816 carriers);
- Spain (0,29 % of R-CTS8816 carriers).

And the carriers' number does not exceed 1,2 % in the Balkans.

This limited western/southern distribution is also confirmed by Yfull (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y2902/) where you will see various exclusively Russian and Polish subclades (which of course does not take into account a possible German ancestry of the tested persons) but also certain atypical subclades such as the exclusively Sardinian R-Y1396 (which could have been brought by East Germanic invaders) and the basal Albanian R-Y3226* (which is for the moment only present in Albania).

[Illyri]

Here is a link to a recent scientific paper (Stolarek, 2019) describing the Goths' initial migration and its impact on the MtDNA of central-east Europe.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-43183-w

The authors describe these migrations as follows:

A. In the first stage, the Goths colonized the mouth of the Vistula River during the 2nd and 1st centuries B.C.
B. Then, they spread west along the Baltic seashore.
C. The Goths moved south and ousted the Przeworsk culture from the northwest part of contemporary Poland, including Kowalewko (1st and 2nd centuries A.D.).
D. Then, they spread east of the Vistula, and then they migrated along the Vistula and Bug Rivers towards the Black See
E. The Goths established the Chernyakhov culture by mixing with Pontic–Caspian steppe populations.
F. Finally, a part of the Chernyakhov culture population moved back and established a large settlement near Masłomęcz called the “Masłomęcz group” (2nd and 3rd centuries A.D.).

[Joey37]

I'm R1a and one of my closest groups in Mytrueancestry is the Visigoths. The Vandals are a closely related tribe and they brought R1a to Sardinia, distant cousins of my L1029 clade.

[Illyri]

I'm R1a and one of my closest groups in Mytrueancestry is the Visigoths. The Vandals are a closely related tribe and they brought R1a to Sardinia, distant cousins of my L1029 clade.

Indeed, I found a basal R-L1029 on yfull. And according to Jordanès, there has been some interaction between the Goths and the Vandals (the former having subdued the latter upon their arrival in the Vistula bassin during the first century CE).

But Sardinian R1a seems quite diverse, as I also found these clades:

- R-Z93* (TMRCA 4700 ybp)
- R-Z2123 > Y24669 (formed 3'900 ybp)
- R-M458 > PF7536 and R-Z29307 (TMRCA 4700 ybp)
- R-Z92 > Y13891* (TMRCA 2'900 ybp)
- R-CTS1211 > YP372* (TMRCA 1'800 ybp)
- R-2902 > Y1396 and Y1399 (formed 2400 ybp, right below R-YP3994)

Given the various TMRCA's, it could have been brought by a serious of events. Has there been any scientific study on Sardinian R1a or any serious hypothesis (besides the Vandals) about its arrival on this island ?

[Ownstyler]

Regarding Sardinians, the overwhelming majority of their results on YFull come from this study. As you can see, 1200 samples were tested with high coverage tests, so they are over-represented right now. As a consequence, you can see scattered Sardinian results almost on every branch.

For this case, you should look at clusters dominated by several Sardinian samples, for example: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-PF4188/. As it happens, I-M26, which is upstream of that cluster, was also found in ancient Sardinian remains.

[Illyri]

"Regarding Sardinians, the overwhelming majority of their results on YFull come from this study. As you can see, 1200 samples were tested with high coverage tests, so they are over-represented right now. As a consequence, you can see scattered Sardinian results almost on every branch."

I understand now why there are so many Sardinian samples on the tree.

"For this case, you should look at clusters dominated by several Sardinian samples, for example: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-PF4188/. As it happens, I-M26, which is upstream of that cluster, was also found in ancient Sardinian remains."

I am not sure to understand your second comment. For the time being, most of Sardinian R1a samples on the R1a tree seem to represent exclusive subclades. And I was inquiring about migratory events which could have brought various R1a subclades in Sardinia. Besides, it is quite clear that "I" is one of their major haplogroups since Sardinia is supposed to be representative of early Neolithic ancestry. As R1a does not belong to such ancestry (in Western / Southern Europe), I still wonder who brought it on this island and when. And the 2013 paper is not very specific on the subject as it only says that the variability of "R" subclades (R1a and R1b) is consistent with a Late Neolithic expansion. Roman and Vandalic dominations are also mentioned but only with respect to African subclades (A1b-M13 and E1a-M44).

[AxelHagen]

My deep clade is R-FGC10360 and this website(https://phylogeographer.com/) showed me the story of this subclade in Europe. This subclade correlates with celtic and later with germanic tribes(Przeworsk, Oksywie and Wielbark cultures)
KbGc9w7HrvI.jpg
Oksywie culture chronologically and geographically coincides (according to Tacitus) with Gothic tribes of the Germanics (ancient Burgundians, vandals, Goths). Some researchers consider Rugiians as a part of oksywie culture(source: Пачкова С. П. �Про оксивський компонент у Чаплинському могільнику зарубинецькоi культури� // Древности I тыс. н. э. на территории Украины.� Киев.�2003)

[torzio]

My wife's father Ydna

https://indo-european.eu/tag/z282/

[AxelHagen]

Well, maybe i was right

[Dibran]

Well, maybe i was right

Autosomal has nothing to do with Y-DNA.....

[Joey37]

Yeah, most of the groups I match with are predominantly R1b.

[AxelHagen]

I know, but maybe it can correlates with my Y-DNA(maybe too deep ancestry)

[mihaitzateo]

As said in another thread, East Pomerania, from NE Germany has 35% Y DNA R1A.
21% is R1A-Z280.
After archaeological evidence, there were Gothic people in Pomerania.
East Pomerania is very atypical compared to the rest of Y DNA from Germany.
In Prussia,there is 24% N, which shows that the people there were assimilated by West Germanics.
In Spain, in the parts where were more Gothic people is a higher percentage of R1A.

[Dibran]

As said in another thread, East Pomerania, from NE Germany has 35% Y DNA R1A.
21% is R1A-Z280.
After archaeological evidence, there were Gothic people in Pomerania.
East Pomerania is very atypical compared to the rest of Y DNA from Germany.
In Prussia,there is 24% N, which shows that the people there were assimilated by West Germanics.
In Spain, in the parts where were more Gothic people is a higher percentage of R1A.

Slavs wen't to Spain as well, as slaves and mercenaries. Also Most German R1a is mostly M458 and only secondly Z280. Do some reading before spreading disinfo. Not saying Goths couldn't carry some. However, you're constantly speaking with little to no factual evidence most the time. Your opinion is not fact.

[mihaitzateo]

The YDNA from East Pomerania I posted is very likely from males that are descending from ex-East-Pomerania Germans.
Goths did carried both I2 and R1A - I2B and I2A,some tribes etc.

[Dibran]

The YDNA from East Pomerania I posted is very likely from males that are descending from ex-East-Pomerania Germans.
Goths did carried both I2 and R1A - I2B and I2A,some tribes etc.

Opinions until evidence is provided. Of which you have none.