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Thread: New map of haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)

  1. #76
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    I still do not see why they have attacked me? I have said there is no J2a Haplogroup or J2b Haplogroup only J2 Haplogroup, a and b are just subtypes.
    J2a and J2b are also haplogroups, they are not any less haplogroups than J2 is a haplogroup. J2 is 'just a subtype' of J, J is 'just a subtype' of IJ, etc back to the beginning of humans. And J2b1 is a haplogroup, and J2b1a is haplogroup, and so on down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    J2a and J2b are also haplogroups, they are not any less haplogroups than J2 is a haplogroup. J2 is 'just a subtype' of J, J is 'just a subtype' of IJ, etc back to the beginning of humans. And J2b1 is a haplogroup, and J2b1a is haplogroup, and so on down.

    This is missing the point, here we are talking is J2 a haplogroup yes or no and the answer is yes :)

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    J2, J2a, and J2b are all haplogroups

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Informed people like me say there is a haplogroup J2, people like you say no, no, no, no there is Haplogroup J2a and another one J2b. What of the things I have said is not right? Can you please say what of the things I have said is not right? Maciamo and genetics think like me and you and a bunch of nationalist Albanians come here to stalk me and in the end I deserve a ban....
    J2a is a haplogroup, J2b is a haplogroup; both of them are descendants of J2 which is it's own haplogroup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Yes exactly :) I am saying that there is a Haplogroup called J2, which has 2 major subtypes J2a and J2b, while the guys here say- No it is stupid, actually there is no Haplogroup J2, there is one Called J2a and a different one called J2b :)
    No one has said this.
    Last edited by Jovialis; 19-10-17 at 00:36.

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    OK, so you have been arguing for pages because even though everyone agrees about everything, people are confused by your wording in English? OK, so stop, we all agree, you have expressed yourself badly in another language, that is no crime.

    (All Y haplogroups *are* A, just as all mt haplogroups are L. I think people *not* saying this causes far more confusion than otherwise. But this is even more off-topic.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    (All Y haplogroups *are* A, just as all mt haplogroups are L. I think people *not* saying this causes far more confusion than otherwise. But this is even more off-topic.)

    Yes all Y-haplogroups are descendants of A, but I think he was confused in thinking J2a (M410) and J2b (M102) are both "J2"; when J2 (M172) is it's own haplogroup they are descended from.

    ...I think he was confused, it's kind of hard to follow what he's saying TBH

    Edit:
    Probably would have been better to ignore.
    Last edited by Jovialis; 19-10-17 at 01:04.

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    yup

    a question to genetists,

    is J2 still a I hg?

    I mean is still IJ in J2 and in I2?
    or not?
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
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    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    yup

    a question to genetists,

    is J2 still a I hg?

    I mean is still IJ in J2 and in I2?
    or not?
    I'm not a geneticist, but according to this chart, J1 and J2 split from J; after it was IJ. It was not a part of haplogroup I.

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/origi...s_europe.shtml
    https://www.eupedia.com/images/conte...s-timeline.png


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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    OK, so you have been arguing for pages because even though everyone agrees about everything, people are confused by your wording in English? OK, so stop, we all agree, you have expressed yourself badly in another language, that is no crime.

    (All Y haplogroups *are* A, just as all mt haplogroups are L. I think people *not* saying this causes far more confusion than otherwise. But this is even more off-topic.)
    Yes they should really learn some English :)

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Lol this is still going on. I think Yaan is doing this on purpose like the YouTube ******.

    Is J2 a haplogroup? What if it's a conspiracy theory and J2 is not the real father of J2a and J2b, but rather the adoptive one. I smell Illuminati over here.

    Back on topic, a split J2a and J2b map would be great (although I think I've seen one). For instance Greece and Albania are very close genetically and one would simply assume that the J2 distribution is a continuity of the same branches, when in reality Greece is high on J2a and very low on J2b and the exact opposite for Albania.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Yes they should really learn some English :)
    I'm pretty sure he's referring to you, Yaan.

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    3 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    So you all guys spit on Maciamo and serious Genetics why?
    macaimo is hardly a serious geneticist when he can't even differentiate j2b1 and j2b2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    macaimo is hardly a serious geneticist when he can't even differentiate j2b1 and j2b2
    Fustan no need to insult Maciamo, in my opinion and I have spoke to many regarding Y dna including researchers on various papers, project admins and brilliant amateur posters, for me Maciamo is one of the most educated persons in the genetic field across all scopes. You can agree and disagree with his theories as everyone is entitled to their opinions. In terms of your statement in the updated J2 genetic info page he discusses the differences between the two.

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...DNA.shtml#J2b1

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    The problem is that he doesn't understand what Maciamo has written, or what anyone else has posted for that matter, which should have been clear to everyone long ago.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I'm not a geneticist, but according to this chart, J1 and J2 split from J; after it was IJ. It was not a part of haplogroup I.

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/origi...s_europe.shtml
    https://www.eupedia.com/images/conte...s-timeline.png

    Jiovalis

    I repeat my question,
    and again to all

    is there still I hg in J2b or J2a?

    or the oposite,
    is there still J hg in I1 or I2?

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    4 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    Fustan no need to insult Maciamo, in my opinion and I have spoke to many regarding Y dna including researchers on various papers, project admins and brilliant amateur posters, for me Maciamo is one of the most educated persons in the genetic field across all scopes. You can agree and disagree with his theories as everyone is entitled to their opinions. In terms of your statement in the updated J2 genetic info page he discusses the differences between the two.

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...DNA.shtml#J2b1

    you can take it as an insult, I really don't care, when maciamo has had the prievelege to have an expert on this haplogroup to help him out (Trojet) and he completely ignores it and does the same mistake over and over again

    I'd get it if he was misinformed or something, but when he has the man you need to talk to regarding j2b, he ignores him, which I take as a total insult

    and then he goes on to consider posts from garrick and the australian diaspora, who have been doing nothing but shitpost against albanians for literally years, truly pathetic

    seems like the only thing that can help maciamo in this case if he tatoos this post on his body:
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    J2 splits into J2a-M410 and J2b-M102 some 27,700 years ago: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J2/

    While R1 splits into R1a and R1b some 22,800 years ago, see here: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R1/

    So to the contrary of what Yaan claims. In actuality the split of J2 into J2a and J2b is older than the split of R1 into R1a and R1b. (Or perhaps he doesn't understand simple phylogeny, that R1 is the ancestor of R1a and R1b, just like J2 is the ancestor of J2a and J2b).

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    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    you can take it as an insult, I really don't care, when maciamo has had the prievelege to have an expert on this haplogroup to help him out (Trojet) and he completely ignores it and does the same mistake over and over again

    I'd get it if he was misinformed or something, but when he has the man you need to talk to regarding j2b, he ignores him, which I take as a total insult

    and then he goes on to consider posts from garrick and the australian diaspora, who have been doing nothing but shitpost against albanians for literally years, truly pathetic

    seems like the only thing that can help maciamo in this case if he tatoos this post on his body:
    What Trojet says literally is the true truth.

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    0 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherland View Post
    What Trojet says literally is the true truth.
    from yfull
    J-L283 Z8409 * L283 * Z622+61 SNPsformed 9900 ybp, TMRCA 6000 ybpinfo

    90% of samples are from Sardinia, Tuscany and Iberia

    is your sample in Yfull?
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    2 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    from yfull
    J-L283 Z8409 * L283 * Z622+61 SNPsformed 9900 ybp, TMRCA 6000 ybpinfo

    90% of samples are from Sardinia, Tuscany and Iberia

    is your sample in Yfull?
    The thing is.. You are always wrong.

    Sile is the most useless poster on this site. No offense, but it is the truth.

    No substance, no credibility, nothing brought to the table..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherland View Post
    The thing is.. You are always wrong.

    Sile is the most useless poster on this site. No offense, but it is the truth.

    No substance, no credibility, nothing brought to the table..
    Members don't get to insult other members personally that way. Cut it out.

    Stick to disagreeing with content, understand?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    you can take it as an insult, I really don't care, when maciamo has had the prievelege to have an expert on this haplogroup to help him out (Trojet) and he completely ignores it and does the same mistake over and over again

    I'd get it if he was misinformed or something, but when he has the man you need to talk to regarding j2b, he ignores him, which I take as a total insult

    and then he goes on to consider posts from garrick and the australian diaspora, who have been doing nothing but shitpost against albanians for literally years, truly pathetic

    seems like the only thing that can help maciamo in this case if he tatoos this post on his body:
    I didn't take it like an insult, I just disagree. Totally agree with Trojet he is also one of the most educated in Y genetics, I have spoke to him here and on Anthrogenica, I always look forward to his analysis. A truly brilliant man.

    I also agree that the Anti-Albanian sentiments need to stop on all forums. I think nobody takes them serious in regards to their theories about Albanians, I may be wrong that some do.

    For J2b-L283 you know the best thing is to listen to Trojet anyways.

    I just want to add one thing apart of this, I find the issue with J2a and J2b is that less people focus on them rather than R1b, R1a and the I's. There is always less information about both J2a and J2b just look at Wikipedia how small the pages are versus R1b, R1a, etc...

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    Good lord this thread derailed fast.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    @Fustan,

    It's thanks to Maciamo that we have this site on which to post our agreements or disagreements with him or with anyone else, so long as we keep it civil.

    It's like being invited to someone's home and then spitting on his floor.Were you raised in a stable or something?


    If you can't show him some respect, get out, or, I'll take you out.

    Capisce?

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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    I didn't take it like an insult, I just disagree. Totally agree with Trojet he is also one of the most educated in Y genetics, I have spoke to him here and on Anthrogenica, I always look forward to his analysis. A truly brilliant man.

    I also agree that the Anti-Albanian sentiments need to stop on all forums. I think nobody takes them serious in regards to their theories about Albanians, I may be wrong that some do.

    For J2b-L283 you know the best thing is to listen to Trojet anyways.

    I just want to add one thing apart of this, I find the issue with J2a and J2b is that less people focus on them rather than R1b, R1a and the I's. There is always less information about both J2a and J2b just look at Wikipedia how small the pages are versus R1b, R1a, etc...
    Thanks for the compliments mate
    I also find your posts very informative and honest.

    Although, I have to say that Fustan has a good point. Maciamo has had a history of suggesting that all "J2b" in the Balkans is as a result of the same Bronze Age I-E migration, as can be seen in this thread: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ans-Mycenaeans when in fact only J2b2a-L283 was found in Bronze Age Croatia.

    As I pointed out on a different forum and here, IMHO it would be illogical to assume all "J2b" lineages co-migrated since their split at ca. 15,900 ybp to the Western Balkans during the Bronze Age, especially when there is no phylogenetic or ancient DNA evidence, except for J2b2a-L283. However, after I posted this, I am glad that Maciamo has recently opened a dedicated section for J2b1-M205 on his J2 page and pointed out where it's been found in ancient DNA.

    EDIT: This is nothing personal against Maciamo or his site. Simply suggestions, to reflect the latest research. I actually applaud his intitiative and efforts to keep everything as much up to date as possible, considering how fast this field is advancing.
    Last edited by Trojet; 20-10-17 at 13:26.
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

  25. #100
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    @Fustan,

    It's thanks to Maciamo that we have this site on which to post our agreements or disagreements with him or with anyone else, so long as we keep it civil.

    It's like being invited to someone's home and then spitting on his floor.Were you raised in a stable or something?


    If you can't show him some respect, get out, or, I'll take you out.

    Capisce?
    Not disagreeing with you on the merits of Maciamo at all, but we aren't really his home guests as much as his "clients" or the drive to keep this forum alive. And there's usually 10-20 people doing most of the work around here anyway, so he and you as a moderator should be interested to treat people with respect as being banned from a forum is not a big deal on anyone's life.

    And why are you always using Italian to throw threats around with the misspelled "capisce", or "chiaro", etc.?

    Isn't it against this forums rules to use other languages? Do you even speak Italian by the way? I'd suppose you'd write "capisci", or you're referring to the Americanized version pronounced like in Sicilian?

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