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Thread: how can we see genetic trace of tribe moving to distant location?

  1. #1
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    how can we see genetic trace of tribe moving to distant location?

    situation 1:
    tribe moves out of area where it was surrounded with related tribes to an area where it is at least partially surrounded with unrelated tribes...

    scenario 1a:
    unrelated tribe settles on its place...

    expected outcome:
    hotspots in new teritory, holes in old teritory

    scenario 1b:
    related tribe settles on its place...

    expected outcome:
    hotspots in new teritory, no major changes in old teritory


    situation 2
    tribe splits in two parts - one part stays, the other part moves to distant location

    scenario 2a:
    tribe lived surrounded with not related tribes

    expected outcome:
    hotspot remains in old teritory

    scenario 2b:
    tribe lived surrounded with related tribes

    expected outcome:
    no changes in old teritory



    possible example 1 - Etruscans

    scenarios 1a and 1b

    The Lydians have very nearly the same customs as the Hellenes, with the exception that these last do not bring up their girls the same way. So far as we have any knowledge, the Lydians were the first to introduce the use of gold and silver coin, and the first who sold good retail. They claim also the invention of all the games which are common to them with the Hellenes. These they declare that they invented about the time when they colonized Tyrrhenia [i.e., Etruria] , an event of which they give the following account. In the days of Atys the son of Manes, there was great scarcity through the whole land of Lydia. For some time the Lydians bore the affliction patiently, but finding that it did not pass away, they set to work to devise remedies for the evil. Various expedients were discovered by various persons: dice, knuckle-bones, and ball, and all such games were invented, except checkers, the invention of which they do not claim as theirs. The plan adopted against the famine was to engage in games one day so entirely as not to feel any craving for food, and the next day to eat and abstain from games. In this way they passed eighteen years.
    Still the affliction continued, and even became worse. So the king determined to divide the nation in half, and to make the two portions draw lots, the one to stay, the other to leave the land. He would continue to reign over those whose lot it should be to remain behind; the emigrants should have his son Tyrrhenus for their leader. The lot was cast, and they who had to emigrate went down to Smyrna, and built themselves ships, in which, after they had put on board all needful stores, they sailed away in search of new homes and better sustenance. After sailing past many countries, they came to Umbria, where they built cities for themselves, and fixed their residence. Their former name of Lydians they laid aside, and called themselves after the name of the king=s son, who led the colony, Tyrrhenians.
    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/etrucans2.html











    it looks as the hole made by departure of Etruscans was filled by G haplogroup settlers
    which resulted in holes for R1a and J2 (scenario 1a), but hotspot of G (scenario 1b)

    possible example 2 - Goths

    scenario 1a






    possible example 3 - Serbs

    scenario 2a

    Serbs moved to Balkan from white Serbia - land Boika

    (most people identify Boika with Bohemia, but some think it is about a location in Ukraine; arguments for Bohemia - its name is related to tribe Boii same as name Boika, there are Serb related toponyms in Bohemia, it matches description of neighboring Franks; confusion with Ukraine is likely because to Bohemia Serbs likely came from Ukraine)

    according to historic sources tribe did split on two parts - one part remained in Boika /Bohemia, other part moved to Balkan


    The Serbs are descended from the unbaptized Serbs, also called 'white', who live beyond Turkey in a place called by them Boiki, where their neighbour is Francia, as is also Great Croatia, the unbaptized, also called 'white': in this place, then, these Serbs also originally dwelt. But when two brothers succeeded their father in the rule of Serbia, one of them, taking one half of the folk, claimed the protection of Heraclius, the emperor of the Romans, and the same emperor Heraclius received him and gave him a place in the province of Thessalonica to settle in, namely Serbia, which from that time has acquired this denomination....
    ...Now, after some time these same Serbs decided to depart to their own homes, and the emperor sent them off. But when they had crossed the river Danube, they changed their minds and sent a request to the emperor Heraclius, through the military governor then governing Belgrade, that he would grant them other land to settle in.
    And since what is now Serbia and Pagania and the so-called country of the Zachlumi and Terbounia and the country of the Kanalites were under the dominion of the emperor of the Romans, and since these countries had been made desolate by the Avars (for they had expelled from those parts the Romans who now live in Dalmatia and Dyrrachium), therefore the emperor settled these same Serbs in these countries, and they were subject to the emperor of the Romans; and the emperor brought elders from Rome and baptized them and taught them fairly to perform the works of piety and expounded to them the faith of the Christians....
    note: Turkia is about Hungary, as it was settled in past with Turkic Huns, Avars..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Serbs

    http://books.google.com/books?id=3al...Serbia&f=false
    page 153

    Last edited by how yes no 2; 22-12-10 at 08:50. Reason: bolded keywords, quote made according to book, as wikipedia quote seems slightly corrupt...

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