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Thread: How did Mtdna J and T come To Northern Europe?

  1. #1
    Elite member spongetaro's Avatar
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    How did Mtdna J and T come To Northern Europe?

    I know Haplogroup Mtdna T and J are found in great amount among northern European countries (Scandinavia, Scotland, Russia) but also in Greece.
    These two haplogroup are said to have originated in the Middle east, but how come we found such a great number of northern European people who carry J and T while Spain, France and Italy have relatively few ??

  2. #2
    Elite member spongetaro's Avatar
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    Does this mean that Greeks , Russian and some Northern European people share common ancestors on the maternal side that South Western European don't ?
    To which culture or ydna haplogroup can we link those two mtdna haplogroup ?

  3. #3
    Viscount Carlitos's Avatar
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    Are in many cases that can lead haplogroups in Europe 10,000 years. Haplogroup J is my mother and I'm from southern Europe, both love the north of Europe and also in southern Spain and up to 37 now match that took two people are with Irish surnames and a francophone surname I do not know why, perhaps in my case the solution is in the Kingdom of Tartessos probably never know.

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Both came during the Neolithic, with the spread of agriculture from the Balkans to Germany (LBK culture). Both haplogroups were confirmed in ancient samples from the LBK culture in Germany, although both at lower frequency than today.

    Haplogroup J has been associated with increased heat production by the mitochondria, therefore providing an evolutionary advantage for northern climates. This may explain why this haplogroup became so common in Scandinavia, and especially in Norway (12%). In comparison, Middle-Eastern Y-DNA (hg E, G, J) make up about 10% of the population in North Germany, 5% in Denmark and 2.5% in Sweden and Norway. MtDNA frequencies are much more likely to vary in time if they can confer an advantage in a particular climate.

    Haplogroup T is also extremely common in the Eurasian steppe and indubitably has connections with the Indo-Europeans, as attested by the ancient DNA from the Bronze Age in the Pontic steppes and Central Asia.

    Incidentally, haplogroups J and T account for about 20% of the lineages in Italy, so it isn't little. Keep in mind that Middle Eastern lineages also included many subclades of H and K as well as haplogroups that are rarer in Europe like N1a, X2, U1, U7, U8 and U9.

    Note that mtDNA haplogroup T, N1a and X2 have a strong affinity with the Caucasus, and surely correlate with Y-haplogroup G2a (and to a lower extent J2). Haplogroups U1, U8 and K peak in Anatolia and northern Mesopotamia (homeland of J2), but are also found in the Caucasus and beyond.

    Haplogroups T and K are both quite common in the Eurasian steppes and surely represent the maternal counterpart of the migration of R1b1b from Anatolia to the Pontic steppes. This would explain why both haplogroups are so common in Europe and Central Asia, despite having originated in the Middle East. In Europe, K reaches its highest frequency around the Alps, in South and West Germany and Belgium, i.e. areas where R1b1b2a first settled, and which evolved into the advanced Celtic cultures of Hallstatt and La Tène.
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    Viscount Carlitos's Avatar
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    I think there is a study of high longevity of women J2 and may therefore my great grandmother died at 92 years old and from what I see are women difficult to control by the male.

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    Elite member spongetaro's Avatar
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    Is the presence of J and T in northern Europe the Evidence that Hair color is not determined by Mtdna haplogroup ?

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    Elite member spongetaro's Avatar
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    I mean the fact that it originated in the middle east and that it is now strong in Northern Europe where people have fair hair

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    Elite member spongetaro's Avatar
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    "Haplogroups T and K are both quite common in the Eurasian steppes and surely represent the maternal counterpart of the migration of R1b1b from Anatolia to the Pontic steppes"
    Did this move occur before the Maykopp culture ? Is it linked with a climate change? Anatolia was one of the most advanced place on earth, so why would T and K carriers move northward to the wild Eurasian steppes?

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    I think that R1b was brought to Europe by male warrior groups and not female !population!

  10. #10
    Viscount Carlitos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geiserich View Post
    I think that R1b was brought to Europe by male warrior groups and not female !population!

    I do not know, but the company where I did the test has awarded me as Celta J mtDNA, a couple of days ago I sent a message that he had another match with a woman who's last name is Rogers, I do not know whether English or Irish surname But I have already two Irish cousins and other premiums to be French or Belgian perhaps, so that some groups had entered Europe brought a woman or maybe it was vice versa, who knows.

  11. #11
    Knight willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Haplogroup T is also extremely common in the Eurasian steppe and indubitably has connections with the Indo-Europeans, as attested by the ancient DNA from the Bronze Age in the Pontic steppes and Central Asia.

    Incidentally, haplogroups J and T account for about 20% of the lineages in Italy, so it isn't little. Keep in mind that Middle Eastern lineages also included many subclades of H and K as well as haplogroups that are rarer in Europe like N1a, X2, U1, U7, U8 and U9.

    Note that mtDNA haplogroup T, N1a and X2 have a strong affinity with the Caucasus, and surely correlate with Y-haplogroup G2a (and to a lower extent J2). Haplogroups U1, U8 and K peak in Anatolia and northern Mesopotamia (homeland of J2), but are also found in the Caucasus and beyond.

    Haplogroups T and K are both quite common in the Eurasian steppes and surely represent the maternal counterpart of the migration of R1b1b from Anatolia to the Pontic steppes. This would explain why both haplogroups are so common in Europe and Central Asia, despite having originated in the Middle East. In Europe, K reaches its highest frequency around the Alps, in South and West Germany and Belgium, i.e. areas where R1b1b2a first settled, and which evolved into the advanced Celtic cultures of Hallstatt and La Tène.
    Where are the ancients Y DNA R1b1b2 (P 312 U106 L11 etc .. ) ? On what bronze archaeological old site ? mt J and mt T comes from JT they have a common origin as you said in the " despite in the middle east or near east" so are the Caucasus Mountains in the near or middle east ?
    Nico

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    Hi! I am new to this site so, hello. I am interested in Haplogroup T3. I was wondering if you could give me any and all about this haplogroup. I have accessed so much information and am very confused. Thanking you for your information!!!

  13. #13
    Regular Member Grubbe's Avatar
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    Hg J and T are probably older in Europe than previously thought. See: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...amp-Mesolithic

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