Is English language more Romance or Germanic ? (test your abilities)

The only Germanic "wheel-related" word which is not shared with Italic, is "wheel", which is of Indo-Iranian origin.

I do think that Italo-Celtic and Germanic languages differ only for the 30% pre-IE words in the latter. Otherwise they would be quite intelligible.
 
The only Germanic "wheel-related" word which is not shared with Italic, is "wheel", which is of Indo-Iranian origin.

What makes you think "wheel" is supposed to be of Indo-Iranic origin? Its clearly from PIE, and its native Germanic, modified by Grimm's Law (*kw > *hw). It is a direct cognate with Greek "kyklos" (κυκλος) and Hindi "chakra".

If you disregard English, you also have German "Rad", which is a cognate with Latin ("rota"), Celtic (Irish "roth", Welsh "rhod", Gaulish "roto-") and Hindi "ratha" (which means "chariot", however).

Also Gray & Atkinson's tree makes no sense: Celtic and Italic languages are closer to each other than Germanic (notably the assimilation of *p > *kw before another *kw). Likewise, Albanian being closer with Indo-Iranic makes no sense (Albanian, for example, does not obey to the *e, *o > *a or the *l~*r merger in Indo-Iranic).
 
You should know that the studies are not telling same thing.
I already gave a link from wikipedia,showing that are dual words,in English,like beef/cow or mutton/sheep.
Sheep is Germanic word,mutton is Romance word taken from French.
No offense,but I do not know which Brit uses mutton instead of sheep .
So there are lots of words which are actually not used,in English and the real percentage of words borrowed from French and Latin,which are normally used is at maximum 40%.
But,a part of these words,more exactly some words taken from French ,are words of Germanic origins.
So if French have words of Germanic origins and these words were brought in English by Normans,I highly doubt that these Germanic words,brought through French in English can be included of words of Romance origins in English.
But I am not arguing still I do not want to impose my point of view to others.
If someone thinks that English is rather Romance,than Germanic,is his opinion.
I retain my opinion that English is much more Germanic than Romance.


I repeat...
I haven't read every post, but I don't think anyone is saying that English is a Romance language. I think what they're trying to say is that it's usually placed among the Germanic languages because of grammar and some basic vocabulary, but that it has drifted far from those roots in the direction of the Romance languages, certainly in the area of vocabulary.

No native English speaker would ever say they had sheep for dinner. Sheep is the word for the animal. Lamb is the meat of sheep under one year of age, and mutton is the meat of the adult sheep. You would never substitute one for the other. What happened is that the Germanic names for the barnyard animals were retained, but the words involved with cooking are from the French, presumably because those were the words used in the Castle or the manor where the cooking was done for the upper classes who for some centuries still exclusively used "Norman" French as their everyday language. The same thing happened with cow...the meat is "veal" or "beef", not cow meat.

Often, the more "elevated" the setting, or the more educated the person, the higher the percentage of French derived words.

These are just a few examples, with the German derived word first and then the French one.

ask/inquire
drink/beverage
fall/autumn
smell/odor
thinking/pensive

In certain situations and with certain kinds of people I might use the first versus the second.

That's not always the case, though; sometimes the different versions have just acquired different connotations.
 
Most British-English speakers are using fall,most American English speakers are using autumn.
As for odor,never heard an American English speaker or a British English speaker to use it.
Same about pensive.
So I do not find normal to include these words,like odor or pensive in statistics,about how many English words are of Romance origins and how many are of Germanic origins.

If this thread is about words of Germanic or Romance origins in English an interesting word,is write.
Most Germanic languages are using a cognate to Romance language,for writing:
schreiben in German,schrijven in Dutch,skriva in Swedish,skrive in Danish/Norwegian,skrifa in Icelandic.
The origin of this verb is told to be ,on wikipedia
"from Proto-Germanic*skrībaną, a late borrowing from Latin scrībō (“write”), ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *skreyb"
So this means that Proto-Germanic speakers had contact with Latin speakers.
A very weird thing is that English is the only Germanic language that is using instead write:
From Middle English writen, from Old English wrītan (“to incise, engrave, write, draw, bestow by writing”), from Proto-Germanic *wrītaną (“to carve, write”), from Proto-Indo-European *wrey- (“to rip, tear”). Cognate with West Frisian write (“to wear by rubbing, rip, tear”), Dutch wrijten (“to argue, quarrel”), Dutch rijten (“to rip, tear”),Low German wrieten, rieten (“to tear, split”), German reißen (“to tear, rip”), Swedish rita (“to draw, design, delineate, model”), Icelandic rita (“to cut, scratch, write”),German ritzen (“to carve, scratch”).
Another thing,it seems that this word,write,refers at stone carving,while the word from other Germanic languages refer to write on paper. Germanic people were known for their rune stones so a more logic word for write is this from English.
So English preserved some Proto-Germanic words that other Germanic languages did not preserved.
 
Most British-English speakers are using fall,most American English speakers are using autumn.
As for odor,never heard an American English speaker or a British English speaker to use it.
Same about pensive.
So I do not find normal to include these words,like odor or pensive in statistics,about how many English words are of Romance origins and how many are of Germanic origins.

If this thread is about words of Germanic or Romance origins in English an interesting word,is write.
Most Germanic languages are using a cognate to Romance language,for writing:
schreiben in German,schrijven in Dutch,skriva in Swedish,skrive in Danish/Norwegian,skrifa in Icelandic.
The origin of this verb is told to be ,on wikipedia
"from Proto-Germanic*skrībaną, a late borrowing from Latin scrībō (“write”), ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *skreyb"
So this means that Proto-Germanic speakers had contact with Latin speakers.
A very weird thing is that English is the only Germanic language that is using instead write:
From Middle English writen, from Old English wrītan (“to incise, engrave, write, draw, bestow by writing”), from Proto-Germanic *wrītaną (“to carve, write”), from Proto-Indo-European *wrey- (“to rip, tear”). Cognate with West Frisian write (“to wear by rubbing, rip, tear”), Dutch wrijten (“to argue, quarrel”), Dutch rijten (“to rip, tear”),Low German wrieten, rieten (“to tear, split”), German reißen (“to tear, rip”), Swedish rita (“to draw, design, delineate, model”), Icelandic rita (“to cut, scratch, write”),German ritzen (“to carve, scratch”).
Another thing,it seems that this word,write,refers at stone carving,while the word from other Germanic languages refer to write on paper. Germanic people were known for their rune stones so a more logic word for write is this from English.
So English preserved some Proto-Germanic words that other Germanic languages did not preserved.

Detailed expositions about the derivation of individual English language words from German may be interesting in and of itself to certain people, but it's irrelevant to the topic of the post and as to whether the majority of the words in the English language derive from German or Latin/Romance languages. The question was answered by linguists who looked at the entire lexicon and who concluded that the majority of the vocabulary is not derived from German. It's pointless to argue about that fact.

I'm also afraid that what you, as a foreigner using the English language, may or may not have heard in the language of English speakers is also irrelevant. You obviously are not going to have had the exposure of a native speaker or someone who has lived in an English speaking country for decades. In addition, to be blunt, it depends on the class of the speaker and the situation. Someone who may not even have graduated from high school, watching football down at the bar, will not use the word pensive, even if he knows the meaning of it. He might not even use the word odor, although he will probably know the meaning. There is also a difference between the common "spoken" everyday English and written English, even the English of a newspaper, for example.
 
There is 'colloquial' and slang talk and of course each generation create their 'code or secret' words to hide from their parents or school teachers. I read a book by black convict with a reputed IQ of 160 who was pimp and his book was titled with the 'Ice something'. He mentioned that many of the teenagers got their words from convicts who served time for a while and released. Most likely involved with marijuana and drugs. "Big time" was convict lingo even Dick Cheney used. Of course the computer introduced a lot of new words and things like wtf and lol came from the board technology. Technology such as telegraphs brought 'asap' it into business language as words were charged by the letters by telegraph.
 
Detailed expositions about the derivation of individual English language words from German....The question was answered by linguists who looked at the entire lexicon and who concluded that the majority of the vocabulary is not derived from German. It's pointless to argue about that fact....

It may be worth mentioning that English does not itself derive from German, it derives from Proto-West Germanic, the common source of High German, Low German, and Dutch. There is a temptation to gloss over the details and say that English comes out of German, but that would actually be similar to claiming that Hungarian derives from Finnish or that Spanish is a derivative of Italian. Spanish is based on Latin, and Italian is also based on Latin.
 
Well is not like that,English is derived from some kind of Germanic variant (Anglo-Frisian dialect),from which Frisian also derives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_language
It should be noticed a thing,Vikings speaking North Germanic did not attempt to change the language of English people.
However,Normans,even if genetically mostly Scandinavian people,already got Roman Empire-like behavior and massively shifted English language towards French,denationalizing English people.
If English people still have some dignity remained in them should throw at the garbage the Romance origin words that were brought by Normans and adopt instead words from Frisian.
Or they should do as Welsh,Scottish and Irish people are doing,when they learn their native Celtic languages,so they should learn Old English.
Scottish,Irish and Welsh people are learning their native Celtic languages,which are not tainted by Latin plague.
If you see such a bad economic situation in Greece,South Italy,Spain that is the result of "Latin culture".
France had the chance to be conquered by Franks,which were Germanic people,so this why they have such a better economy and culture and civilization compared to South Italy , Spain,Greece.
 
It may be worth mentioning that English does not itself derive from German, it derives from Proto-West Germanic, the common source of High German, Low German, and Dutch. There is a temptation to gloss over the details and say that English comes out of German, but that would actually be similar to claiming that Hungarian derives from Finnish or that Spanish is a derivative of Italian. Spanish is based on Latin, and Italian is also based on Latin.

Good point, Robert.
 
...
However,Normans,even if genetically mostly Scandinavian people,already got Roman Empire-like behavior and massively shifted English language towards French,denationalizing English people.
If English people still have some dignity remained in them should throw at the garbage the Romance origin words that were brought by Normans and adopt instead words from Frisian.
...
France had the chance to be conquered by Franks,which were Germanic people,so this why they have such a better economy and culture and civilization compared to South Italy , Spain,Greece.

Romance words and languages are not "garbage". They are of great value in communication, science, and history. Romance languages have great bodies of literature behind them and tie Europe to many areas of the Americas that speak Romance languages (Spanish, French, and Portuguese).

You might not personally care for Romance languages, and that's fine. There's a line, however, when it comes to bashing them.
 
Well is not like that,English is derived from some kind of Germanic variant (Anglo-Frisian dialect),from which Frisian also derives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_language
It should be noticed a thing,Vikings speaking North Germanic did not attempt to change the language of English people.
However,Normans,even if genetically mostly Scandinavian people,already got Roman Empire-like behavior and massively shifted English language towards French,denationalizing English people.
If English people still have some dignity remained in them should throw at the garbage the Romance origin words that were brought by Normans and adopt instead words from Frisian.
Or they should do as Welsh,Scottish and Irish people are doing,when they learn their native Celtic languages,so they should learn Old English.
Scottish,Irish and Welsh people are learning their native Celtic languages,which are not tainted by Latin plague.
If you see such a bad economic situation in Greece,South Italy,Spain that is the result of "Latin culture".
France had the chance to be conquered by Franks,which were Germanic people,so this why they have such a better economy and culture and civilization compared to South Italy , Spain,Greece.

I am quite sure that Pakistanis in London and Mexicans in Los Angeles will be glad to learn Frisian words. :LOL:
 
I think what I have posted was not understood.
Is normal that current English language need to be kept as official language in Great Britain.
Because you can not change over night a language. And I do not know how willing Irish,Scottish and Welsh people would be to switch to Old English,as official language.
However,as Irish people are learning in parallel their Irish Celtic language,in school and use that language to also communicate between them,as Scots are also doing this,Welsh same,English people should also start to learn Old English and have it as parallel language.
Is called national pride and English people still have it. It was something similar in Finland,where Swedish was used as official language,a move of national awakening.
As for Angela giving me a warning,for no reason,I reported that she is abusing her admin powers,to Maciamo and Taranis.
I have not attacked anyone,as for the crimes of Roman Empire and the fact that it denationalized so many people (including Italic people,which were speaking other languages than Latin) and did so many genocides, those are well known.
Normans also did lots of crimes and abuses against native Celto-Anglo-Saxons people from England,Robin Hood is describing such crimes and is a very popular book in England.
 
Calling other languages and cultures "garbage" is not acceptable.

As for the idea that England would go back to using "Old English", there is nil, zero, zilch chance of that happening. Next.
 
Calling other languages and cultures "garbage" is not acceptable.

As for the idea that England would go back to using "Old English", there is nil, zero, zilch chance of that happening. Next.
I have not called other languages "garbage" I have said that English people could replace words of French origins that were brought by Normans by Frisian words. I have told that English people should dispose of those words. I do not see how is that an infraction.
Romanian language had a lot of Slavic origin words replaced with words taken from French,for example . I do not agree with removing of those words of Slavic origins from Romanian,but that is off-topic.
Very likely replacing the words of French origins,brought by Normans,will not happen soon.
As for study of Old English in England,we shall see about it,if will start or will not start,in England and US.
Please note that Harvard University already have and advanced course of Old English:
http://www.registrar.fas.harvard.ed...nced-old-english-anglo-saxons-home-new-course
 
I have not called other languages "garbage" I have said that English people could replace words of French origins that were brought by Normans by Frisian words. I have told that English people should dispose of those words. I do not see how is that an infraction.
Romanian language had a lot of Slavic origin words replaced with words taken from French,for example . I do not agree with removing of those words of Slavic origins from Romanian,but that is off-topic....

Why is removing Romance words from English good while removing Slavic words from Romanian is not? I don't understand.

It is the nature of languages to borrow from each other. There are Celtic words in Spanish, Norse words in Finnish, Slavic words in German, and Uralic words in English. When does it become a problem? I don't want the Language Inquisition coming to down and telling me what words I may or may not use.
 
Why is removing Romance words from English good while removing Slavic words from Romanian is not? I don't understand.

It is the nature of languages to borrow from each other. There are Celtic words in Spanish, Norse words in Finnish, Slavic words in German, and Uralic words in English. When does it become a problem? I don't want the Language Inquisition coming to down and telling me what words I may or may not use.

EDIT:
Removed most of the post,to not offend some members of the forum.
However,kept these few things I have not liked at Roman Empire and which I think no democratic state should follow:

I do not agree with this vision over Latin language,as some great language.
First,because people tend to neglect the genocides and atrocities that Romans did and portray these unhuman acts as some kind of glorious deeds.
Second,because Roman Empire was not behaving well with the average Roman citizens either,people of Latin blood,instead it was despising them and considering them some kind of half-idiots which could have been controlled with bread and circus(panem et circenses).
Third,because Roman Empire leaders were mostly mentally insane people,very thirsty after power and they were killing between them,just to get the power .
Please remember that Nero put fire to Rome,this is how mentally insane Roman Emperors were.
Fourth,because Roman Empire was using slavery ,even if you were a native Roman citizen,wealthy but you were commenting something that the Cezar would not like,you would have end up as slave,if not killed.
Fifth,because Roman Empire did not supported any kind of culture,was just a militaristic state,were paranoia was state politics and religion,they were seeing everywhere enemies.

So is just a very ironic fact that the some smart people associate Latin language with culture . Roman Empire had nothing to do with culture.
It was only about making everything for war. A militaristic state,lead by mentally insane people.This is what kind of state European Union should follow?
Today European Union states,including UK are having a very peaceful politics.
And we do not have anymore the despising of average people in European Union.
 
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This dude seems to forget that Celts and AngloSaxons were bloody invaders too. The Britons should speak Neanderthal language. LOL
 
Well maybe you want to say that Spanish people,which are Celto-Iberian people,are speaking a Latin language,instead of a Celto-Iberian language?

Celtic languages are attested only in parts of modern Aragón, Old Castile, and New Castile in Spain. Don't listen to Maciamo, who is not even a scientist, and talks about Bronze Age "Proto-Celts" invading Western Europe in 2200 BC!

In Blue area where Celtic inscriptions were found mixed with Iberian, Vasconic and Latin ones.

Mapa_lleng%C3%BCes_paleohisp%C3%A0niques-ang.jpg
 
Well go study Middle English and compare it to actual English.
If I am not wrong,Middle English got fewer words taken from French and Latin.
So,I think we had a Latinist current in UK,a few smart people thought that it would be nice to adopt more Romance words to English language.
And they imposed their point of view to others. Being smart is not hard to manipulate average people.
 
Well go study Middle English and compare it to actual English.
If I am not wrong,Middle English got fewer words taken from French and Latin....

No, I have studied and can read Middle English, and it has about the same proportion of Germanic and Romance terms that Modern English does. But natheless, whil I have tyme and space, me thynketh it acordaunt to resoun to tell you that "actual English" existeth not as a wittable concept.

In fact, if you already know modern English well, learning to read Middle English is incredibly simple. You just need to learn some spelling and pronunciation rules, learn a handful of new characters (e.g. the runic Thorn that is used in some Middle English texts), and have a reference book on medieval concepts.

If you want a mostly-Romance free version of English, you are looking for Old English, i.e. the language of Beowulf. Good luck getting people to talk like that again. No, really, you're going to need that luck.
 

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