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Thread: Is English language more Romance or Germanic ? (test your abilities)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Well is not like that,English is derived from some kind of Germanic variant (Anglo-Frisian dialect),from which Frisian also derives.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...glish_language
    It should be noticed a thing,Vikings speaking North Germanic did not attempt to change the language of English people.
    However,Normans,even if genetically mostly Scandinavian people,already got Roman Empire-like behavior and massively shifted English language towards French,denationalizing English people.
    If English people still have some dignity remained in them should throw at the garbage the Romance origin words that were brought by Normans and adopt instead words from Frisian.
    Or they should do as Welsh,Scottish and Irish people are doing,when they learn their native Celtic languages,so they should learn Old English.
    Scottish,Irish and Welsh people are learning their native Celtic languages,which are not tainted by Latin plague.
    If you see such a bad economic situation in Greece,South Italy,Spain that is the result of "Latin culture".
    France had the chance to be conquered by Franks,which were Germanic people,so this why they have such a better economy and culture and civilization compared to South Italy , Spain,Greece.
    I am quite sure that Pakistanis in London and Mexicans in Los Angeles will be glad to learn Frisian words.

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    I think what I have posted was not understood.
    Is normal that current English language need to be kept as official language in Great Britain.
    Because you can not change over night a language. And I do not know how willing Irish,Scottish and Welsh people would be to switch to Old English,as official language.
    However,as Irish people are learning in parallel their Irish Celtic language,in school and use that language to also communicate between them,as Scots are also doing this,Welsh same,English people should also start to learn Old English and have it as parallel language.
    Is called national pride and English people still have it. It was something similar in Finland,where Swedish was used as official language,a move of national awakening.
    As for Angela giving me a warning,for no reason,I reported that she is abusing her admin powers,to Maciamo and Taranis.
    I have not attacked anyone,as for the crimes of Roman Empire and the fact that it denationalized so many people (including Italic people,which were speaking other languages than Latin) and did so many genocides, those are well known.
    Normans also did lots of crimes and abuses against native Celto-Anglo-Saxons people from England,Robin Hood is describing such crimes and is a very popular book in England.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Calling other languages and cultures "garbage" is not acceptable.

    As for the idea that England would go back to using "Old English", there is nil, zero, zilch chance of that happening. Next.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Calling other languages and cultures "garbage" is not acceptable.

    As for the idea that England would go back to using "Old English", there is nil, zero, zilch chance of that happening. Next.
    I have not called other languages "garbage" I have said that English people could replace words of French origins that were brought by Normans by Frisian words. I have told that English people should dispose of those words. I do not see how is that an infraction.
    Romanian language had a lot of Slavic origin words replaced with words taken from French,for example . I do not agree with removing of those words of Slavic origins from Romanian,but that is off-topic.
    Very likely replacing the words of French origins,brought by Normans,will not happen soon.
    As for study of Old English in England,we shall see about it,if will start or will not start,in England and US.
    Please note that Harvard University already have and advanced course of Old English:
    http://www.registrar.fas.harvard.edu...ome-new-course

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    I have not called other languages "garbage" I have said that English people could replace words of French origins that were brought by Normans by Frisian words. I have told that English people should dispose of those words. I do not see how is that an infraction.
    Romanian language had a lot of Slavic origin words replaced with words taken from French,for example . I do not agree with removing of those words of Slavic origins from Romanian,but that is off-topic....
    Why is removing Romance words from English good while removing Slavic words from Romanian is not? I don't understand.

    It is the nature of languages to borrow from each other. There are Celtic words in Spanish, Norse words in Finnish, Slavic words in German, and Uralic words in English. When does it become a problem? I don't want the Language Inquisition coming to down and telling me what words I may or may not use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertColumbia View Post
    Why is removing Romance words from English good while removing Slavic words from Romanian is not? I don't understand.

    It is the nature of languages to borrow from each other. There are Celtic words in Spanish, Norse words in Finnish, Slavic words in German, and Uralic words in English. When does it become a problem? I don't want the Language Inquisition coming to down and telling me what words I may or may not use.
    EDIT:
    Removed most of the post,to not offend some members of the forum.
    However,kept these few things I have not liked at Roman Empire and which I think no democratic state should follow:

    I do not agree with this vision over Latin language,as some great language.
    First,because people tend to neglect the genocides and atrocities that Romans did and portray these unhuman acts as some kind of glorious deeds.
    Second,because Roman Empire was not behaving well with the average Roman citizens either,people of Latin blood,instead it was despising them and considering them some kind of half-idiots which could have been controlled with bread and circus(panem et circenses).
    Third,because Roman Empire leaders were mostly mentally insane people,very thirsty after power and they were killing between them,just to get the power .
    Please remember that Nero put fire to Rome,this is how mentally insane Roman Emperors were.
    Fourth,because Roman Empire was using slavery ,even if you were a native Roman citizen,wealthy but you were commenting something that the Cezar would not like,you would have end up as slave,if not killed.
    Fifth,because Roman Empire did not supported any kind of culture,was just a militaristic state,were paranoia was state politics and religion,they were seeing everywhere enemies.

    So is just a very ironic fact that the some smart people associate Latin language with culture . Roman Empire had nothing to do with culture.
    It was only about making everything for war. A militaristic state,lead by mentally insane people.This is what kind of state European Union should follow?
    Today European Union states,including UK are having a very peaceful politics.
    And we do not have anymore the despising of average people in European Union.
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 20-07-15 at 09:37.

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    This dude seems to forget that Celts and AngloSaxons were bloody invaders too. The Britons should speak Neanderthal language. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Well maybe you want to say that Spanish people,which are Celto-Iberian people,are speaking a Latin language,instead of a Celto-Iberian language?
    Celtic languages are attested only in parts of modern Aragón, Old Castile, and New Castile in Spain. Don't listen to Maciamo, who is not even a scientist, and talks about Bronze Age "Proto-Celts" invading Western Europe in 2200 BC!

    In Blue area where Celtic inscriptions were found mixed with Iberian, Vasconic and Latin ones.


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    Well go study Middle English and compare it to actual English.
    If I am not wrong,Middle English got fewer words taken from French and Latin.
    So,I think we had a Latinist current in UK,a few smart people thought that it would be nice to adopt more Romance words to English language.
    And they imposed their point of view to others. Being smart is not hard to manipulate average people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Well go study Middle English and compare it to actual English.
    If I am not wrong,Middle English got fewer words taken from French and Latin....
    No, I have studied and can read Middle English, and it has about the same proportion of Germanic and Romance terms that Modern English does. But natheless, whil I have tyme and space, me thynketh it acordaunt to resoun to tell you that "actual English" existeth not as a wittable concept.

    In fact, if you already know modern English well, learning to read Middle English is incredibly simple. You just need to learn some spelling and pronunciation rules, learn a handful of new characters (e.g. the runic Thorn that is used in some Middle English texts), and have a reference book on medieval concepts.

    If you want a mostly-Romance free version of English, you are looking for Old English, i.e. the language of Beowulf. Good luck getting people to talk like that again. No, really, you're going to need that luck.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    EDIT:
    Removed most of the post,to not offend some members of the forum.
    However,kept these few things I have not liked at Roman Empire and which I think no democratic state should follow:

    I do not agree with this vision over Latin language,as some great language.
    First,because people tend to neglect the genocides and atrocities that Romans did and portray these unhuman acts as some kind of glorious deeds.
    Second,because Roman Empire was not behaving well with the average Roman citizens either,people of Latin blood,instead it was despising them and considering them some kind of half-idiots which could have been controlled with bread and circus(panem et circenses).
    Third,because Roman Empire leaders were mostly mentally insane people,very thirsty after power and they were killing between them,just to get the power .
    Please remember that Nero put fire to Rome,this is how mentally insane Roman Emperors were.
    Fourth,because Roman Empire was using slavery ,even if you were a native Roman citizen,wealthy but you were commenting something that the Cezar would not like,you would have end up as slave,if not killed.
    Fifth,because Roman Empire did not supported any kind of culture,was just a militaristic state,were paranoia was state politics and religion,they were seeing everywhere enemies.

    So is just a very ironic fact that the some smart people associate Latin language with culture . Roman Empire had nothing to do with culture.
    It was only about making everything for war. A militaristic state,lead by mentally insane people.This is what kind of state European Union should follow?
    Today European Union states,including UK are having a very peaceful politics.
    And we do not have anymore the despising of average people in European Union.
    Many Roman emperors were from different backround among them "Illyrians,Thracians,Syrians etc,so were the soldiers from different backround,Latin being lingua franca and official language,i have read some researches the same language never changed,which due to time happen to every language,would like to see some more researches if anyone know more on that,ethnicity wasn't same then and now,Roman was everyone that fought for Roman interests in opposite for "barbarians" Constantine the Great from Thraco-Illyrian" origin born in Naissus present day Serbia,made Constantinople new capital yet they called themselves Romans,even what we call Byzantine empire after fall of "Western Roman empire" was calling themselves Romans,the Greco-Roman ethnographers with names like Sarmatia,Magna Germania,Illyria whatever doesn't give us clear picture of ethnic origin of the same people,was they speaking one language,was they not...even "Barbarian" empires had their lingua franca.
    Last edited by Милан М.; 20-07-15 at 21:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Милан М. View Post
    I agree,but many Roman emperors were from different backround among them "Illyrians,Thracians,Syrians etc,so were the soldiers from different backround,Latin being lingua franca and administrative language,i have read some researches the same language never changed,which due to time happen to every language,would like to see some more researches if anyone know more on that,ethnicity wasn't same then and now,Roman was everyone that fought for Roman interests in opposite for "barbarians" Constantine the Great from Thraco-Illyrian" origin born in Naissus present day Serbia,made Constantinople new capital yet they called themselves Romans,even what we call Byzantine empire after fall of "Western Roman empire" was calling themselves Romans,the Greco-Roman ethnographers with names like Sarmatia,Magna Germania,Illyria whatever doesn't give us clear picture of ethnic origin of the same people,was they speaking one language,was they not...even "Barbarian" empires had their lingua franca.
    This shouldn't be surprising. Lots of Germans made their way to the US and became English-speaking Americans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    EDIT:
    Removed most of the post,to not offend some members of the forum.
    However,kept these few things I have not liked at Roman Empire and which I think no democratic state should follow:

    I do not agree with this vision over Latin language,as some great language.
    First,because people tend to neglect the genocides and atrocities that Romans did and portray these unhuman acts as some kind of glorious deeds.
    Second,because Roman Empire was not behaving well with the average Roman citizens either,people of Latin blood,instead it was despising them and considering them some kind of half-idiots which could have been controlled with bread and circus(panem et circenses).
    Third,because Roman Empire leaders were mostly mentally insane people,very thirsty after power and they were killing between them,just to get the power .
    Please remember that Nero put fire to Rome,this is how mentally insane Roman Emperors were.
    Fourth,because Roman Empire was using slavery ,even if you were a native Roman citizen,wealthy but you were commenting something that the Cezar would not like,you would have end up as slave,if not killed.
    Fifth,because Roman Empire did not supported any kind of culture,was just a militaristic state,were paranoia was state politics and religion,they were seeing everywhere enemies.

    So is just a very ironic fact that the some smart people associate Latin language with culture . Roman Empire had nothing to do with culture.
    It was only about making everything for war. A militaristic state,lead by mentally insane people.This is what kind of state European Union should follow?
    Today European Union states,including UK are having a very peaceful politics.
    And we do not have anymore the despising of average people in European Union.
    Number one: the topic of this thread is "Is the English language more Romance or Germanic?". Your post is off topic. Let's try to stay somewhat on track.

    Number two: even if it were a thread on ancient civilizations, posts like this will get the kind of response they deserve, which is to say, none. Perhaps you might want to pick up a text on this period of history. Absolutely any text would help. Just a suggestion.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    ...
    I do not agree with this vision over Latin language,as some great language.
    First,because people tend to neglect the genocides and atrocities that Romans did and portray these unhuman acts as some kind of glorious deeds.
    Second,because Roman Empire was not behaving well with the average Roman citizens either...
    Third,because Roman Empire leaders were mostly mentally insane people,very thirsty after power and they were killing between them,just to get the power .
    Please remember that Nero put fire to Rome,this is how mentally insane Roman Emperors were.
    Fourth,because Roman Empire was using slavery....
    Fifth,because Roman Empire did not supported any kind of culture,was just a militaristic state,were paranoia was state politics and religion,they were seeing everywhere enemies.

    So is just a very ironic fact that the some smart people associate Latin language with culture . Roman Empire had nothing to do with culture.
    It was only about making everything for war. A militaristic state,lead by mentally insane people.This is what kind of state European Union should follow?
    Today European Union states,including UK are having a very peaceful politics.
    And we do not have anymore the despising of average people in European Union.
    By your logic, the German language should be discarded because of the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime. English should also be discarded due to the history of racial slavery in the USA. Say bye to Arabic because of the insane actions of Islamists. Danish is gone because of its association with Vikings, who were essentially pirates. Spanish was the primary language of many of the conquistadores who brutally enslaved many natives of California, Mesoamerica, and South America, so obviously we can't speak that either. Niall of the Nine Hostages used hostage-taking as a political leverage strategy, so obviously Irish is a terrible language. Russian is no good because of the example of rulers like Ivan the Terrible and also because of the brutal oppression that the USSR inflicted on dissidents.

    So, mihaitzateo, what language can we speak that is untainted by social problems?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertColumbia View Post
    By your logic, the German language should be discarded because of the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime. English should also be discarded due to the history of racial slavery in the USA. Say bye to Arabic because of the insane actions of Islamists. Danish is gone because of its association with Vikings, who were essentially pirates. Spanish was the primary language of many of the conquistadores who brutally enslaved many natives of California, Mesoamerica, and South America, so obviously we can't speak that either. Niall of the Nine Hostages used hostage-taking as a political leverage strategy, so obviously Irish is a terrible language. Russian is no good because of the example of rulers like Ivan the Terrible and also because of the brutal oppression that the USSR inflicted on dissidents.

    So, mihaitzateo, what language can we speak that is untainted by social problems?
    I was wrong. An intelligent response could be made to that post. You've just done it. Well done. (For some reason, the system won't let me give any more thumbs up today, otherwise I'd have given you one.)

    I also had a giggle imagining Mexicans and South Asians, among others, trying to learn the English of Beowulf. :) Kudos to you, by the way. Chaucerian English was hard enough. I drew the line at Beowulf.

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    Well Robert I must admit that you are right.
    The Latin language and the Romance languages have nothing to do with what Roman Empire has done.
    Neither French language has anything to do with Norman conquest.
    I was upset on Latin language for no reason.
    Thing is that I am also a native Romance speaker,cause Romanian as how grammar is and how sonority is ,is also mostly Romance language.
    I just noticed that I have some kind of non-rational love towards Romanian,I guess is normal,because is my mother tongue.
    I am just upset because I can learn very easy French and without effort Italian,but I learning German is not that easy,learning Dutch is even harder,same about Slavic languages.
    I can speak quite well French and I understand French very good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc View Post
    Celtic languages are attested only in parts of modern Aragón, Old Castile, and New Castile in Spain. Don't listen to Maciamo, who is not even a scientist, and talks about Bronze Age "Proto-Celts" invading Western Europe in 2200 BC!

    In Blue area where Celtic inscriptions were found mixed with Iberian, Vasconic and Latin ones.

    That's only for Celtiberian, properly, it does not include the other Celtic or Celtic-related languages of other parts of Spain, like Gallaecian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    ...
    Thing is that I am also a native Romance speaker,cause Romanian as how grammar is and how sonority is ,is also mostly Romance language.
    I just noticed that I have some kind of non-rational love towards Romanian,I guess is normal,because is my mother tongue.
    I am just upset because I can learn very easy French and without effort Italian,but I learning German is not that easy,learning Dutch is even harder,same about Slavic languages.
    I can speak quite well French and I understand French very good.
    It's perfectly normal to have an easier time learning languages that are closer to your native language. If you want to learn German, Dutch, or a Slavic language, the key to doing so is practice. Keep studying, read books, talk to people in that language, travel to areas where they speak that language, and don't give up. You can do it. You're already getting quite good at English, which is a Germanic language as you know. By learning English, you're mastering Germanic grammar which will help you immensely when it comes to German and Dutch.

    Second thought - have you considered trying a Scandinavian language? They are Germanic but have a grammar that, in some ways, is more similar to English due to the large-scale Viking influence on English.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drac II View Post
    That's only for Celtiberian, properly, it does not include the other Celtic or Celtic-related languages of other parts of Spain, like Gallaecian.
    The map shows the places where the languages were attested aka partial inscriptions in that languages have been found. Gallaecian has not been attested.

    http://hesperia.ucm.es/en/mapa.php

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_scripts

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc View Post
    The map shows the places where the languages were attested aka partial inscriptions in that languages have been found. Gallaecian has not been attested.

    http://hesperia.ucm.es/en/mapa.php

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_scripts
    It depends on what you mean by "attested". If it includes many surviving shorter inscriptions, then it has been "attested":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallaecian_language

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertColumbia View Post
    It's perfectly normal to have an easier time learning languages that are closer to your native language. If you want to learn German, Dutch, or a Slavic language, the key to doing so is practice. Keep studying, read books, talk to people in that language, travel to areas where they speak that language, and don't give up. You can do it. You're already getting quite good at English, which is a Germanic language as you know. By learning English, you're mastering Germanic grammar which will help you immensely when it comes to German and Dutch....
    I had an afterthought. If you're having difficulty staying motivated to learn German or Dutch, why not keep working on your English? The more you master English, the more you will be able to recognize where German and Dutch are similar to English and you will be that much closer to mastery when you go back to German or Dutch later. You will also get a boost because learning any language helps improve your brain and your logical thinking abilities. A brain that has been honed through extensive study of English is a brain that is going to find learning any other language easier, even Arabic, Japanese, or Sotho.

    Most of us on this forum understand how hard it is. Truly, we do. But we know that the way to mastery is to keep going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertColumbia View Post
    I had an afterthought. If you're having difficulty staying motivated to learn German or Dutch, why not keep working on your English? The more you master English, the more you will be able to recognize where German and Dutch is similar to English and you will be that much closer to mastery when you go back to German or Dutch later. You will also get a boost because learning any language helps improve your brain and your logical thinking abilities. A brain that has been honed through extensive study of English is a brain that is going to find learning any other language easier, even Arabic, Japanese, or Sotho.

    Most of us on this forum understand how hard it is. Truly, we do. But we know that the way to mastery is to keep going.
    Scandinavian languages are for Romanians,3rd easy to learn,after Romance languages,English.
    Because Scandinavian grammar is so closed to English and also have common features to Balkanic languages,like definite postponed article.
    But learning Swedish/Norwegian after you know English is not hard at all,because how close grammar is.
    Is a little more weird to have your ear hearing all those different words in Scandinavian.
    On the other hand,Romanian ear can hear clearly the difference between German different sounds.
    But German grammar is hard,even if you know English,for a Romanian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drac II View Post
    It depends on what you mean by "attested". If it includes many surviving shorter inscriptions, then it has been "attested":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallaecian_language
    This might deserve a separate thread, but yes, Gallaecian is known mainly from short inscriptions and names from the Roman period, all written in the Latin alphabet. Before that, they were illiterate (unlike the Celtiberians to the east).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    This might deserve a separate thread, but yes, Gallaecian is known mainly from short inscriptions and names from the Roman period, all written in the Latin alphabet. Before that, they were illiterate (unlike the Celtiberians to the east).
    Indeed, it seems that literacy in this particular Celtic group came after contact with the Romans. The same can be said about some other Celtic languages, like Brittonic, which survives exclusively in inscriptions using Latin or Latin alphabet:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Brittonic

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_curse_tablets

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drac II View Post
    It depends on what you mean by "attested". If it includes many surviving shorter inscriptions, then it has been "attested":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallaecian_language
    No the surviving corpus of Gallaecian is composed of isolated words and short sentences contained in local Latin inscriptions or glossed by classical authors, together with a number of names – anthroponyms, ethnonyms, theonyms, toponyms – contained in inscriptions.

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