Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 101 to 112 of 112

Thread: Is English language more Romance or Germanic ? (test your abilities)

  1. #101
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    16-10-17
    Posts
    222
    Points
    1,709
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,709, Level: 11
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    H2a1 M9313
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c3

    Country: UK - England



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.


    Old English was verbally based, Beowulf, etc was mostly recited by bards, as with most, Old English was the sound, and voice of the illiterate.
    To translate these sounds into writing is nigh on impossible, without hearing the dialects in which they were heard. Most of the surviving early manuscripts were written by educated Monks etc who understood Latin, which they mostly translated.

    Today it will be impossible to understand the full understanding of these old English records unless you hear how they were originally spoken, many of the old records and Anglo Saxon words are understandable if they are spoken in the right enviroment, or regions, where dialects still retain and recognise many sounds and meanings which are seeminly unfamiliar to people outside of the area, same with the early translations, Shakespear uses a middle English Dialect I believe, but even he at that time would have difficulty understanding a lot of the Accents further North or away from his area.

    An example of a similar problem is todays subtitles, They are not recording what is actually spoken, they reflect the writers understanding of what is being said and heard, and often much is missed, just as the early Anglo Saxon translations no doubt had been effected by the Latin educated Monks who mainly were the ones doing the translating, and interpretations.

    The English Language is more Germanic, but English itself needs to be understood, to understand this

    Another prime example is the wording on the famous 'Alfred jewel' Translated by academics as 'Alfred ordered me to be made' but where I live in the North East of England, we still use the very similar sounds it seems to state, which gives a very different meaning to, AElfred Mec Heht Gewyrcan .

    In my dialect Heht and Gewyrcan, are similar to our todays use of Hed/Het, Worken/Wirken. ( 'Ge' of gewyrcan as used today in modern German, is silent in English now ) which translates in my dialect as ' Alfred had me working". We still use a long 'A' sound, as in the 'AE' of AElfred/Alfred and 'en' for ing etc, these are just two of thousands of dialect differences we have.
    ,
    A very different translation from the recognised statement. Although it is very difficult for me to translate my sounds, they are identical/recognisable as the very same sounds as Heht , and Wyrcan, Heaht/Hed/Het (had )Worken/Wirken ( working ). If you heard me say that phrase you would imediately recognise they are the same.

    This reads to me, "Alfred had me working", meaning the jewel/Aestle itself was made to work, ie point to read, or write, as in teaching etc. ie 'had me working' would mean exactly that.

    The Jewel,s purpose supports exactly that, as used in reading,teaching, or writing, and at least in my own opinion was not meant to read ' Alfred had me made'. Although he orderd his bishops to receive them, this may be his personal one due to where it was found and his associated history there at the time. If this view was accepted it would represent, a more realistic voice from the past,from Alfred and I believe this is why it was made.

    If he had ordered it to be 'made' In my opinion it would of used a word such as Macht/Macken, modern German Made/Makes, to reflect this, as Gewyrcan means to work , and use. its not a static term. In my dialect these would be Mak/Maken/Mad, not Make/Making/Made.

    It then would possibly of read, AELFRED MEC HEHT MACHEN/MACHT, or the similar A/S regional word for Made/make.

    Incidently the more I look at the image on the Aelfred Jewel. I believe he could be holding two complete Aestels, as they look like ties with bows, ( shoelace knots ), rather in my opinion mistakenly, in the form of Blossening branches. They could either way both, indicate meaning spreading, teaching learning, and may actually depict the image of Alfred himself, Anglo Saxon artwork nearly always had hidden meanings )

    Even today for me an Englishman, I have to write English very differently, and it is very different to what and the way I speak, this is because of our UK education system.
    Last edited by paul333; 14-07-19 at 17:16. Reason: corrections

  2. #102
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    italouruguayan's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-04-17
    Location
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Posts
    125
    Points
    4,685
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,685, Level: 20
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 365
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1B U106 L44
    MtDNA haplogroup
    A2

    Ethnic group
    Mixed , mostly Italian
    Country: Uruguay



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I think that if a compatriot of mine, who only knows the Spanish language, is given to read texts in Portuguese, Italian, French and English, most likely he understands almost all the Portuguese text, much less of the Italian text, less even of the French text ... but of the English text, except for a few words of Latin origin (many with different meanings than in Spanish), he would understand almost nothing ...

  3. #103
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    16-10-17
    Posts
    222
    Points
    1,709
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,709, Level: 11
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    H2a1 M9313
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c3

    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by italouruguayan View Post
    I think that if a compatriot of mine, who only knows the Spanish language, is given to read texts in Portuguese, Italian, French and English, most likely he understands almost all the Portuguese text, much less of the Italian text, less even of the French text ... but of the English text, except for a few words of Latin origin (many with different meanings than in Spanish), he would understand almost nothing ...
    Ive just updated my comment above, but even some southern English cannot understand Northern English etc, due to the strong dialects...lol.

    I was working in Maidstone down in Kent, and most locals could not understand me. I had to completely change the way I talked, and had to talk slowly and change many actual words and sounds, in order to be understood. There was a Scot working there, and he had no problem, but when we talked normal speed together, the locals could hardly understand a word.

    English is Germanic, but is strongly influenced by Dialects, from later further Scandinavian influences in the North etc, and this is more reflected in local dialects, than the standard English today. Standard English today, is very very different to localised regional English use, which retains much of its original Germanic forms.

  4. #104
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    shissem@san.rr.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-05-17
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    168
    Points
    3,840
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,840, Level: 17
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 10
    Overall activity: 10.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a-Z726
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4a1h

    Ethnic group
    English/German
    Country: USA - California



    Paul333: excellent posts. The following is a question about some family research I’m doing . . . As a northern speaker, how do you pronounce the name of the town of Heysham, in Lancashire?

  5. #105
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    16-10-17
    Posts
    222
    Points
    1,709
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,709, Level: 11
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    H2a1 M9313
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c3

    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Paul333: excellent posts. The following is a question about some family research I’m doing . . . As a northern speaker, how do you pronounce the name of the town of Heysham, in Lancashire?

    looking at the writing I would say Haeshem, the ae would sound like a drawn out/long A.

    its hard to put sounds into words but thats the nearest I could get to how I would describe how It sounds would be Haes Hame. Hey would sound more closer to Hae/Haay/hay, Heys could be interpreted as Haes, therefore it could be 'Haes' 'hame/yame'. possible home of a man called Haes, even a shortening of Heastein/Hastein a possible viking surname, which would fit lancashire.

    My dialect is from an ancient area of Northumbria, Eastern County Durham, know known as 'Mackem', by those North of us, and 'Yakker' by those South of us. Another description is Pitmatic, related to the coal mining . Locally it can even be subdivided to specific area,s as was the case during the not too distant 'Jack the Ripper hoax', which identified a part of our accent, down to a very small area in Sunderland. ( re - Wearside Jack 1978/9 )

    Regarding Accents. There is a very distinct break and remarkable difference of dialects in my area which could be due to an ancient viking division of lands here in 918AD. In a matter of a Mile or So the accents are completely different, and relate from the very area of that division. This is partly believed to of been through Olaf Ball ( Onlafball )a Viking who divided the area between Olaf ( possibly Guthfrithson )and Scula in AD 918. The difference is very marked from this ancient boundry of the Castle Eden Dene, Beck. Olaf the North to the river Wear, and Scula the south to the river Tees.

    It is very important, to hear the local accents and dialects spoken, if you really want, or need to understand English, as it is within these Local dialects and speech, that still retains its oldest Germanic forms.

    England has many different counties, each with very different dialects, and within each of these counties, there are many localised differences. Standard Educating English, in other words 'Newspaper English', is miles away, and very distant from Local English, much of which still today you can hear its original Germanic root, dialects, and accents.

    If you type in Google 'Death of a dialect, Raymond Reed', and you can hear some old Northumbrian,but even he has to talk slowly and different in order to record it, if he spoke normal it would be quick and very different but it gives you an idea, especially about the long 'A' sound. He really starts about 5.40, but if you compare it against Standard English you will see where our accent came from.
    Last edited by paul333; 14-07-19 at 23:04.

  6. #106
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    shissem@san.rr.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-05-17
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    168
    Points
    3,840
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,840, Level: 17
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 10
    Overall activity: 10.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a-Z726
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4a1h

    Ethnic group
    English/German
    Country: USA - California



    Thanks. I believe the inhabitants say hee-sham, but neither that or your version support my private theory (which I won’t bore you with).

  7. #107
    Banned Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    16-10-17
    Posts
    222
    Points
    1,709
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,709, Level: 11
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    H2a1 M9313
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c3

    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Thanks. I believe the inhabitants say hee-sham, but neither that or your version support my private theory (which I won’t bore you with).
    Ive updated my post with a link for google, regarding the differences from Northumbrian to Standard English, and Accents etc at the bottom.

    Regarding your theory, my views are only my opinion, and they may be totally wrong. Stick with it, it may be the right one.

    The accents around Heysham will probably be very different from mine.

    Its a shame, but these accents etc which will have been handed down by 'parents to children', verbally, and in unbroken link, from more than 1500 years ago, are soon set to dissapear forever within only a few generations from now.

  8. #108
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    shissem@san.rr.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-05-17
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    168
    Points
    3,840
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,840, Level: 17
    Level completed: 98%, Points required for next Level: 10
    Overall activity: 10.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a-Z726
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4a1h

    Ethnic group
    English/German
    Country: USA - California



    Paul333: Thanks again, you've been very helpful and given me new avenues to investigate.

  9. #109
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    04-07-11
    Posts
    50
    Points
    8,075
    Level
    26
    Points: 8,075, Level: 26
    Level completed: 88%, Points required for next Level: 75
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - Z2110
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H28a

    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    You can make up thousands of example sentences, some closer to Dutch, others closer to French, since English is a hybrid of Old Dutch/English and Old/Norman French. But the bottom line is that English vocabulary has about twice more French or Latin roots (58%) than Germanic (26%) ones.
    This is true. However, the "function words" (the most common words used to communicate basic things) in the English language are still predominantly Germanic.

  10. #110
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    09-06-18
    Posts
    128
    Points
    4,213
    Level
    18
    Points: 4,213, Level: 18
    Level completed: 91%, Points required for next Level: 37
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    There are some linguists who hold that one can only speak one language perfectly. Sadly, that may be true.
    I am absolutely bilingual in Catalan and Spanish.

  11. #111
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    21-07-19
    Posts
    13
    Points
    56
    Level
    1
    Points: 56, Level: 1
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 94
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I think basic English is more Germanic whereas advanced English is almost 100% Romance.

  12. #112
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    13-09-19
    Posts
    1
    Points
    32
    Level
    1
    Points: 32, Level: 1
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 18
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Australia



    If you look at an English dictionary only 25% of the words might be AngloSaxon, while in any conversation down the pub, 70% of common words will be AngloSaxon. French or Latin words are softer while AS is harsher, think Finish versus HALT or Stop.
    I read that if you look at Churchill's speeches during the war are mostly in As, they appeal to the heart.... we shall fight them on the beaches, etc.... the only French word in this is 'surrender'.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Similar Threads

  1. Walloon, a Germanised Romance language ?
    By Maciamo in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 19-04-19, 17:26
  2. What's your favourite Romance Language?
    By julia90 in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 22-11-18, 12:35
  3. Walloon, a Germanised Romance language ?
    By Maciamo in forum European Culture & History
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 30-11-09, 20:35
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 17-06-05, 05:13
  5. English language test
    By Mycernius in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 28-03-05, 22:38

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •