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Thread: Macedonians

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Macedonia was slavic speaking in the 8th - 10th century.



    Taken from the book “The Indo-European Languages” edited by Anna Giacalone Ramat and Paul Ramat, 1998, page 419.

    All of the Southern Balkans were Slavic speaking areas in the 8th to the 10th century AD, Macedonia and Thessaly was completely Slavic speaking as was Epirus.
    hm, don't want to be rude, but notice that Bulgars are north of Danube in today Romania and that everything bellow Danube is marked as Serbia..
    those were proto-Bulgars who were according to history not Slavic but akin to Avars and Huns...
    while Bulgars of today are Slavic people.....

    so, if Macedonians are to be associated with Serbs, Bulgars or Greeks, they are historically by far closest to being Serbs, linguistically to modern Bulgars who are also according to map you posted essentially just speakers of one dialect of Serbian.., and in wish to be ancient Macedonians they are closest to Greeks....

    to be honest, I do think that Ancient Macedonians were originally somewhat related to ancestors of Slavs....I do not think they were Greeks, except for minor elite e.g. royal family....when Macedonian king was not allowed to participate in Olympic games because Macedonians are not Greeks, he didnot claim that Macedonians are Greeks, but he claim that his family is.... I think that clearly sets situation....originally they were not Greeks, but later perhaps they were partially Hellenized...


    but I do not think it really matters... you see, ancient Macedonians did not do anything except one silly conquest of the world attempt... they left no cultural impact of their own on world civilization.... culture of ancient Greeks did set key corner stones of modern civilization...

    so, I do not really understand why both parties try to claim to descend from ancient Macedonians....except as right on land issue...it is comparable to trip of Albanians about being Illyrians... Illyrians never had some worthy cultural influence on the world...they were just all the time fighting between themselves as south Slavs still do.... and as Albanians never did....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Macedonian is the origin of all slavic languages Webster Dictionary year 1967-1969!


    Taken from the Webster Dictionary 1967-1969.
    Comment this one, and ask yourself again what I said before about the Serbs. Serbs got the language from the Macedonians. Fact.
    Last edited by DejaVu; 28-01-11 at 03:19.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    hm, don't want to be rude, but notice that on that map Bulgars are north of Danube in today Romania and that everything bellow Danube is marked as Serbia..
    Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Bulgaria spoke same language and was same people? Can you speak and understand Bulgarian? So Scandinavia was one country named Scandinavia? Open the history book again and start reading. Dont forget its about language not inhabitants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia and Bulgaria spoke same language, do you understand Bulgarian?
    all Slavic languages have large part of vocabulary shared... so basic communication is possible depending on how capable you are to recognize similarity of words...

    strictly speaking Bulgarian language doesnot exist anymore, as according to official history Bulgarians did accept language of Slavic people who lived in areas that they have settled....

    I am not really convinced though.... as there is also a medieval document "Letopis popa Dukljanina" that claims how south Slavs are Goths with small Slav admixture and how Bulgarians are of same origin and language and did settle massively in the area

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    http://www.spcoluzern.ch/index.php?pg=1666&lang=en
    King Dusan proclaimed himself Emperor in 1346.
    "In order to legitimise his title he needed to elevate the Serbian Archbishopric to the level of a Patriarchate. This was done on the occasion of a Church-State council held in Skoplje in 1346, on the day of the Feast of the Entrance of Our Lord into Jerusalem. Council was attended by the Bulgarian Patriarch Simeon, Archbishop of Ohrid Nicholas, abbots and elders of the Holy Mountain, as well as those Greek bishops and metropolitans whose dioceses were included in the newly enlarged Serbian state." (Maybe thats why he proclaimed himself Macedonian Tsar?)

    Patriarchate of Peć
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchate_of_Pe%C4%87

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    Krste Misirkov - Macedonian culture, 1924!

    Macedonian Culture
    Our confidence, not only in the preservation of our nation but also in the ultimate triumph of the ideal of all Macedonians to achieve independence, is founded as we mentioned earlier not so much on the weakness of our enemy, or on aid from abroad, as on the knowledge of our people and of their past.
    Some, however, may ask whether there really exists a Macedonian national culture and a Macedonian history which could be compared to that of the Serbs (read in here “and Bulgarians” - B.K.) and which would serve as foundation for the Macedonian an ideal of an independent Macedonia? Fortunately, we are able to give a positive answer to this: Macedonian national culture and history, being different from those of Serbia and Bulgaria, exist primarily because they have not been submitted to systematic and unbiased study. Both the Serbs and the Bulgarians, with great partiality and self-interest, chose to take from Macedonian culture and history only those aspects which attested to glory of the Serbian or Bulgarian national name, and simply ignored the questions of crucial importance either because they did not concern them or because they ran counter to the national ideals of the Serbian or Bulgarian historical researchers and their fellows.
    I said that this was fortunate for Macedonian national culture and history because the Macedonian people were thus armed with an invincible weapon in their battle for human rights land a free national life on an equal footing with the other cultured nations.
    Unfortunately, the independent study of Macedonian culture and history was begun only a short while ago by the Macedonians themselves, who, at the end of the last century began to lose faith in the scholars of Belgrade and Sofia with their more or less unanimous contention that the Slavs, during the Middle Ages, were a disorganized and unenlightened people who were spared from Hellenization thanks only to the state which had been first founded by the Turanian Bulgarians and later included in the Serbian state of Nemanjich.
    But such assertions were equally erroneous in Belgrade and in Sofia, being backed as they were by the authority of Jagich and Marin Drinov.
    We Macedonians have found this to be an error which resulted in a misconception on the part of both the Bulgarians and the Serbs, not only of the history of Macedonia and the Macedonians during the Middle Ages, but also of the history of the Serbs and Bulgarians.
    We are able to show that the case was quite the contrary, that it was in fact the Macedonians who were the most active of all the South Slavs, more so even than the Turanian Bulgarians, throughout the entire Middle Ages right up to the conquest of the Balkan Peninsula by the Turks; we can also show that it was the Macedonians who waged the longest and hardest battle for their spiritual and political emancipation during the nineteenth century and the first quarter of the twentieth century.
    Our failures, both in the Middle Ages and in more recent times, were the result of circumstances, which had nothing in common with the national awareness, and alleged lack of organization of the Macedonians.
    The age long struggle of the Macedonians for cultural advance and national preservation, beginning 400-500 years before the emergence of the Serbian state of Nemanjich and continuing through the rise and decline of this state, taken together with the epic struggles for religious and political freedom, has gone to the making of Macedonia’s national culture and of our national history.

    K. Misirkov- Macedonian, Macedonian culture, “Mir”, XXX, 7155, 19.IV.1924, 1.

  7. #257
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    Krste Misirkov - The self-determination of the Macedonians, 1925!

    The self-determination of the Macedonians
    My article Macedonian Nationalism, which appeared in Mir on 12 March this year, aroused the ire of the paper “Svobodna rech”, which described me as “a man who still does not even know his own nationality”, a “simple-minded thinker who is capable of writing nonsense, of sinking even lower”, and who is “well-known for having once served in the Serbian propaganda service” and for lending his support to the theories of the Belgrade professor Cvjic concerning the existence of a separate Macedonian nationality”. As a result of these slanders against me in “Svobodna rech” many of my own townsfolk turned in fury upon me, and there were even some people who thoughtlessly claimed that they knew that in my student days I had attended assemblies of both the Bulgarian and the Serbian students and that this was why I had been driven out of the Bulgarian assemblies.
    Similar senseless accusations were made in “Svobodna rech” and, as was only to be expected, these false rumors spread around Karlovo. This, however, did not greatly disturb me, as would have been clear to anyone who had read my article in “Mir” and who knew anything about my past… I knew full well that I would be attacked for my Macedonian Nationalism and that my article could certainly not be published in “Ilinden”. Nevertheless, although I was far from sure that it would be printed in “Mir”, I wrote out the article and sent it to this journal. And two days after it had appeared, “Svobodna rech” made me out to be a man who does not know his own nationality.
    I was fully aware that I will be attacked for my “Macedonian nationalism”, that this article has no chance to be published in “Ilinden”, and I was not even sure that they will print it in “Mir”. I still wrote the article and sent it to the newspaper “Mir”. On the second day after its printing “Svobodna rech” named me a man that does not know his ethnicity.
    Unfortunately “Svobodna rech” cannot make me give up my “lowly reasoning”. I still find that Macedonia today is butchered, that Greeks took their best parts, and have chased away the Macedonian population and replaced them with Asiatic new-comers that today are piled up next to the Serbian and Bulgarian border, the same as once the Byzantine Emperors were establishing next to the Bulgarian border military settlements of the Asiatic colonists: Armenians and Paulikians. I also find that if Serbs and Bulgarians do not find peace, and Macedonians are not included in voluntary cooperation with both Bulgarians and Serbs for safeguarding against the Greek wave that slowly, but surely moves from south toward north, all of us: Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians will drown in the non-Slavic see that surrounds us from all sides. I think that only in agreement and cooperation between Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgarians is the salvation for all of us. Serbs and Bulgarians were fighting, Greeks and Romanians were profiting: they lost Macedonia, Trace and Dobrudza.
    The most important condition for a cooperation between Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians, however, is the freedom of self-determination of Macedonians. And that is why, regarding this last issue, I emphasized the principle of the Macedonian patriotism and nationalism, as a fully neutral and satisfying for all: Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians alike; but for now it is more correct to say that it is equally unsatisfying for all: Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians.
    Since it is primarily us Macedonians that are suffering from the Serb-Bulgarian conflict, it is our duty to search for means and ways of resolving that conflict. That is forcing us “to know” up to the current day our nationality and to tell both Serbs and Bulgarians: forget about your big-Serb and big-Bulgarian ideas, give up enforcing your nationalism and patriotism on us, since it basically is putting your interests up front instead of ours. Let us have our own understanding for our relations toward you and your conflict about us and our fatherland, as well as for the means that will bring us to a general South Slav benefit. Let us have our own Macedonian national feelings and to create Macedonian culture, as we did that during the ages when our fatherland was not part of the same state with yours.
    As Macedonians we will be more useful for all: for Macedonia, for Bulgaria and for Serbia and in general for the whole South Slav community, than as Bulgarians and Serbs.
    As a Bulgarian I would have said long time ago: What Macedonia! It is good for me here too. I don’t need to think for what is already lost. But as Macedonian, in Bulgaria I feel as in a foreign land, although between brothers, I’m not at home, in my fatherland. My fatherland is there, where I have been born and where I should leave my bones, where my son should go at least, if I am not allowed to go myself.
    The awareness and the feeling that I am Macedonian should stand higher than everything else in the world. Macedonians should not let themselves been assimilated and to lose their individuality living among Bulgarians and Serbs. We can acknowledge the closeness of the Serb, Bulgarians and Macedonian interests, but we need to evaluate them from the Macedonian stand point of view.
    Uncompromising and unlimited love toward Macedonia, the constant thinking and working for the interests of Macedonia and the full conservativism in the manifestations of the Macedonian national spirit: the language, the national poetry, mentality and customs – those are the main characteristics of the Macedonian nationalism, demonstrated through “lowly reasonings of a man that still does not know his nationality”.
    But we are not egoists. We don’t think only about ourselves. We are ready to make a good service to both Serbs and Bulgarians, but only if that service is voluntary and not forced.
    How we can serve Serbs: we will all die, and we will not let the Greek foot to cross the current border of the Serb and Bulgarian Macedonia. But we will do that as Macedonians, and not as Serbs. We will fight with Greeks because they are our only historic and age old enemies. Our complete Macedonian national history is full with fights against Greeks. There is no fight with Bulgarians and Serbs recorded in the Macedonian history. Bulgarians and Serbs have respected the national rights of the Macedonians in the middle ages, and it was only Greeks that were destroying our national spirit and were de-nationalizing us. They even to the current day are chasing us away from our native fireplaces, and are reminding us that we have an age old obligation to chase the un-invited guests from our grand father’s and great grand-father’s lands.
    That is the Macedonian national feeling, which is the historic call of every Macedonian that can be fulfilled only as a free and equal citizen of Yugoslavia, allowed to think and feel and talk and act as Macedonian.

    K. Misirkov: The self-determination of Macedonians, “Mir”, 7427, 25. III 1925, 1.

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    Krste Misirkov - Macedonian nationalism, 1925!

    Macedonian Nationalism
    We, the Macedonian intelligentsia, undoubtedly bear the greatest responsibility for the situation facing our country today. There are, however, certain extenuating circumstances which might justify us in the eyes of our unfortunate fellow-countrymen, especially those who have been driven from their homes and are now forced to wander, unwelcome and unwanted, in various part’s of Bulgaria.
    For a full thirty years the Macedonians have been waging a heroic battle to release themselves from the yoke of Turkey. But at the same time the foreign propagandists have been infecting our country and demoralizing part of the population. The Macedonian intel-ligentsia have largely devoted themselves to revolutionary activity; but there have been some who have found other ways possibly no less important than that of the revolutionary struggle to ensure the success of Macedonia’s endeavors.
    My book On the Macedonian Matters, published in 1903 in Sofia, and my article On the Importance of the Moravian or Resavian Dialects for the Historical Ethnography of the Balkan Peninsula, have shown that some of the Macedonian intellectuals are seeking and have found, another way of fighting, i.e. an independent Macedonian scientific way of thinking and a Macedonian national Consciousness.
    I do not regret having declared myself in favor of Macedonian separatism twenty-eight years ago. Separatism was for me, and remains, the only way out, the best means by which the Macedonian intelligentsia could pay back and continue to repay their debt towards their people.
    In 1912, when I was asked by my fellow villagers what should be done if our village remained under Greek control, I answered: no matter under whose control this village may remain, you will stay where you are, you shall not move anywhere.
    Maybe from the great-Bulgarian point of view my advice was not sufficiently patriotic, but from the Macedonian point of view this was the only proper advice.
    But when the Greeks forced many Macedonians to flee to Bulgaria I should, as a Bulgarian, have been glad that the Bulgarian people had lost their land just as long as they had been spared from Hellenization.
    But I am not glad that they were forced to move. Nor can I look at this question through the eyes of Mr. Mih. Madzharov (one of the editors of Mir B.K.) who says that the underground and the city industry of Bulgaria benefited from the arrival of the refugees.
    Here my Macedonian patriotism overcomes my Bulgarian patriotism. The Macedonians are necessary to Macedonia; it is only with the Macedonians that Macedonia can belong to the Macedonians, never without them.
    The Macedonians should either remain where they are and let the devil take care of them if he likes or, if it is their fate to be forced to move, they should move from one part of Macedonia to another, but this should still be Macedonia and not Bulgaria, Serbia, or Greece. If they are driven out of the Greek part of Macedonia, the Macedonians should move into the Serbian part of Macedonia and form military settlements to await the day when they might return to their homes.
    You may say that a Bulgarian cannot reason like this. Yes, but a Macedonian can and should reason like this.
    I hope it will not be held against me that I, as a Macedonian, place the interests of my country before all… I am a Macedonian, I have a Macedonian’s consciousness, and so I have my own Macedonian view of the past, present, and future of my country and of all the South Slavs; and so I should like them to consult us, the Macedonians, about all the questions concerning us and our neighbors, and not have everything end merely with agreements between Bulgaria and Serbia about us - but without us …
    Note: This article was written after an agreement signed between Greece and Bulgaria in 1923, according to which a great number of Aegean Macedonians would be turned out of their homes and driven into Bulgaria during winter, under the worst possible conditions, when the Bulgarians had not made even the most rudimentary preparations for receiving, housing, and feeding tens and even hundreds of thousands of Macedonian refugees.

    K. Misirkov: Macedonian Nationalism, “Mir”, 7427, 12. III 1925, 1.

  9. #259
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    so Dejavu

    you became Makedonian at 800 AD by geografical name of area

    I was born Makedonian by blood in the area that took name by my people

    your bondage is by land name

    My bondage is by blood name

    I have nothing against slavic
    I have have friends in Bulgaria, have friends in Fyrom, have friends in Serbia,
    they are slavic

    in the time you are showing the map we were here under slavian occupation of either Dusan or Simeon or Samuel

    But we Never change Languge or nationality

    understand that

    you are a Slavo-Makedonian that has nation birth at 8th century

    I am Makedonian that has nation birthay at 8th century BC

    I still speak different with south-central Greeks
    Ι still use accusative instead of possessive
    I still end the words with different ends
    I still don't speak the modern 'koine' municipal language
    I still don't speak when I go to Athens with my own dialect
    but I force them to speak my language Here
    we still have different sounds of L and R and T and A
    as also Cretans do
    But that is not a difference of language as you claim
    Hesychius says the same about ancient Makedonians

    now keep your land and name your nationality
    cause 1500 years we did not became slavic why today?
    you cant make me a slavic
    I know my family from 1600 AD when we left old village to the new
    and we were here and never slavic

    nobody has the right to make me something different than what i am


    you follow Dusan a foreigner, the king of Serbia
    I resist Dusan

    For you Dusan is Great
    For me the Makedonian it was a Slavic invader

    we are not the same understand that.

    we always had differences with peloponese and atheneans, even today we speak different, but we were and we are all greeks,

    I am a Greco-Makedonian
    You are a Slavo-Makedonian
    (if you are)


    english Fat
    con/polis Greek Pachos παχος
    modern Greek Lipos λιπος
    Thessalian Ligda λιγδα
    GR Makedonian Χιngki Ξιγκι

    if I say xingki in athens they laugh

    as I laugh when they say kalamaki in North

  10. #260
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    Country: Serbia



    Deja Vu


    I will give one example appropriation of Serbian historical figures what is happening since the Communists in Macedonia (FYROM) came to power ie. from 1945.

    _______
    Marko Kraljevic


    ARTICLE
    from the
    Encyclopædia Britannica


    Get involved Share

    www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/365789/Marko-Kraljevic

    Marko Kraljević, (b. c. 1335—d. May 17, 1395, Rovine, Walachia [now in Romania]), Serbian king (1371–95) of a realm centred in what is now Macedonia and a hero in the literature and traditions of the South Slavic peoples.


    Marko Kraljević (“Mark, the King’s Son”) was a member of the Mrnjavčević family, which some sources suggest had Herzegovinian origins. Marko’s father, Vukašin, was king of the southern Serbian lands whose capital was Prilep (now in Macedonia). When Vukašin was slain in battle with the Turks in 1371, Marko succeeded him as king but as a vassal to the Ottoman sultan. Marko is known to have completed a monastery at Sušica, near Skopje (Maced.), and to have died fighting at the Battle of Rovine (1395) during a war between the Turks and the Walachian prince Mircea the Old, but otherwise his life is sparsely documented. More colourful details have been preserved in Serbian ballads and epic poetry, as well as in various Balkan folk songs. Joyous, just, strong, incredibly brave, and chivalrous to a fault, Marko is portrayed as an implacable foe of the Turks, a prodigious drinker of wine, and inseparable from his horse, Šarac.



    But you can see Macedonian literature, sites and blogs, one example:

    ladnameana.blogspot.com/2010/08/blog-post.html

    Крале Марко (околу 1335 - 17 мај 1395) бил Македонски
    крал што владеел во големиот дел од Македонија пред повеќевековната власт на турските султани и станал најпознат јунак на епското народно творештво не само на Македонците, туку и пошироко.



    In Macedonia (FYROM) since the Communists people learn that Kraljevic Marko is Krale Marko and that he was a Macedonian. Never mind that this is not true.



    When I talk to people in Macedonia (FYROM) about this and similar appropriation of Serbian kings, heroes, wise men, and so on. I get answers all to know that they are Serbs and the problem of usurping is the policy.

    Deja Vu, you can produce the hundreds of pages of posts, believe me, in good faith I say, no policy can appropriate the history of others, neither Greeks nor Serbs, neither Greek nor Serbian historical figures.

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    Kral or Kralj was not used by Macedonians, only Tsar. (Krali or Krale Marko)
    If anyone are claiming something then there must be a source. No source then its irrelevant.
    Notice: Marko Mrnjavčević not Marko Kraljević.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko
    According to the local legends, Marko's mother was Evrosiya (Евросия), sister of the Bulgarian voivoda Momchil, who ruled territories in the Rhodope Mountains.

    Serbian Kings got mixed heritage, partly Bulgarian.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_o...timirovi%C4%87




    The Sclavenes lived in Serbian land by early 500 A.D. (No Serbs before 500 A.D.)


    The "Sklavinias" in the Balkans, 7th–8th centuries

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaviniae




    Sklavinia(i) (Greek: Σκλαβινίαι, Latin: SCLAVINIAE) was the Greek term for the Slav settlements (area, territory) which were initially out of Byzantine control and independent. The term may be interpreted as "Slav lands" in Byzantium. The term is derived from the name Sclaveni, which was used to describe all Slavic peoples with whom the Byzantine Empire came in contact. The Sclaviniae of the Byzantine Empire eventually became South Slavic nations:
    • The Serbs became allies to the Byzantine Emperor (hypekooi) and eventually became independent.
    • The Bulgars fought the Byzantine Empire and were through a peace treaty after 680 recognized as an independent state, they subsequently merged with the Slavs in Eastern Balkans into the modern nation of Bulgarians.
    Last edited by DejaVu; 28-01-11 at 20:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    so Dejavu

    you became Makedonian at 800 AD by geografical name of area

    I was born Makedonian by blood in the area that took name by my people

    your bondage is by land name

    My bondage is by blood name

    I have nothing against slavic
    I have have friends in Bulgaria, have friends in Fyrom, have friends in Serbia,
    they are slavic

    in the time you are showing the map we were here under slavian occupation of either Dusan or Simeon or Samuel

    But we Never change Languge or nationality

    understand that

    you are a Slavo-Makedonian that has nation birth at 8th century

    I am Makedonian that has nation birthay at 8th century BC

    I still speak different with south-central Greeks
    Ι still use accusative instead of possitive
    I still end the words with different ends
    I still don't speak the modern 'koine' municipal language
    I still don't speak when I go to Athens with my own dialect
    but I force them to speak my language Here
    we still have different sounds of L and R and T and A
    as also Cretans do
    But that is not a difference of language as you claim
    Hesychius says the same about ancient Makedonians

    now keep your land and name your nationality
    cause 1500 years we did not became slavic why today?
    you cant make me a slavic
    I know my family from 1600 AD when we left old village to the new
    and we were here and never slavic

    nobody has the right to make me something different than what i am


    you follow Dusan a foreigner, the king of Serbia
    I resist Dusan

    For you Dusan is Great
    For me the Makedonian it was a Slavic invader

    we are not the same understand that.

    we always had differences with peloponese and atheneans, even today we speak different, but we were and we are all greeks,

    I am a Greco-Makedonian
    You are a Slavo-Makedonian (if you are)
    One Word: PARANOIA

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    European Union - All unite for peace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    I am a Greco-Makedonian
    You are a Slavo-Makedonian [/B](if you are)
    yes, but it may happen that two of you are genetic cousins...
    so who would be right than? and would it matter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Kral or Kralj was not used by Macedonians, only Tsar. (Krali or Krale Marko)
    If anyone are claiming something then there must be a source. No source then its irrelevant.
    DejaVu
    That is the problem that Macedonians Serbian king Marko Kraljevic (as Mark Prince) posing as Macedonians named Marko Krale.

    And not only him, I can give you a list.

    And sources are as many as you like, what it means to ask the Macedonian sites and blogs on Eupedia in Cyrillic.

    Here is just an example of another site (who knows Macedonian can find as he want):

    www.panoptikum.com.mk/2009-11-08-15-10-52/koreni-senki-odeci/853-2010-04-17-20-25-28.html

    За Марко Крале се смета дека е една од најконтроверзните личности во македонската средновековна историја.


    It really makes no sense, I say there is no such policy that something can justify.

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    How yes no

    it is not that easy
    maybe a part, a small percentage

    but we The Greeks-Makedonians never went so up to Skopje
    never, they were the Paeonians mostly Allies
    later with roman byzantine and ottoman maybe
    But it is most obvius that they came when slavic Kingdoms were strong, very strong that occupied half Greece,
    we know that the land of Bardar was never ours
    did you ever hear 1 Greek to say Skopje was Greek????
    no
    simply a treaty when we were small country and nation and with no national allies,
    (we had some protection from Some Powers, I dont deny)

    that has to do with Turkish land when they were leaving,
    that treaty is only in pappers
    besides Germans and Austrian are relatives are they 1 country? No
    then why to make a country that has bad memmories,
    leave my brothers the south Greeks, and unite with Slavic-Makedonians (if they are my brothers)
    whose Heroes are my enemies,
    Understand that, we Became different,
    Albanians and Greeks have almost same DNA in a Big %
    are we the same nation?
    no thousands years before we change or cut,
    with south italy we are same also genetic, are we same nation today?
    with Turks in west minor asia and Pontus black sea have 50% same DNA and also history and nationality until 1923,
    but today we cut, they are other nation,
    in earlier times when seljuk turks came
    they went to Taursus, the first islamization area
    so in Greek when a man is turning to islam we dont say he became muslim, we say he became Turk (Taursus religion)
    that is a cut of nationality, a schisma, an expel,
    probably with Slavomakedonians there is a small DNA relations, wich became bigger at 1948 and 1916-1920 with exchanges and exiles and immigrations,
    but today we are tottaly different,
    For example Dejavu's Hero Yane Sandasky for me he was a famous fighter rabel etc, but he hunt my people,
    how can i consider him a Hero of my own,


    How Yes NO
    look at that map


    a stupid ruler named Makedonia today Bulgaria

    does that make a sense?

    so by that map today Bulgarians can claim that they are the Makedonians

    does that make sence???

    tomorrow a politician may change name of Frieshland to Austria, will you change nationality, in papers yes, but not in soul, or blood,
    the same is here,
    if I write more about my village history then Dejavu will keep spaming
    so i stop here

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    Besides European Union accepts the different nationalities, and Languages,

    and about Paranoia DejaVu
    thank you
    look at your own Paranoia and keep spamming mania,

    thank you I will not Buy
    I am a poor original Makedonian Who was Converted To Christianity and today I try to expel it

    I was never Slavonized or became Turkish, or muslim

    for that I have to ask you Name your Nationality First By Blood and After by Land

    Besides ALL SERBIAN GREEKS BULGARIANS AND ALBANIANS ARE FAKE TO YOU


    one WORD LUNATIC

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    yes, but it may happen that two of you are genetic cousins...
    so who would be right than? and would it matter?
    Lol, it would be funny if iapetoc tested slavic R1a or G2a.
    I would love to see his faces when he gets the news. :)

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    hahaha
    I am G2a3
    or G2a2, i will find tomorrow the results

    What are trying to do people, I am Proud for What I AM

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    We will fight with Greeks because they are our only historic and age old enemies. Our complete Macedonian national history is full with fights against Greeks. There is no fight with Bulgarians and Serbs recorded in the Macedonian history. Bulgarians and Serbs have respected the national rights of the Macedonians in the middle ages, and it was only Greeks that were destroying our national spirit and were de-nationalizing us. They even to the current day are chasing us away from our native fireplaces, and are reminding us that we have an age old obligation to chase the un-invited guests from our grand father’s and great grand-father’s lands.

    European Union - All unite for peace.

    I find these two posts amusing and contradictory


    When you become a new country like FYROM did in 1991, you don't come off the start of your independence with land claims against bulgaria and greece, two of your neighbours, a civil war with albanians and call serbs a fake country. You only look for trouble, and its not surprising that FYROM is also the poorest country in the region either, even behind albania where they have mobsters ruling that country. Skopje is using the age old political trick of pushing nationalism sentiment to avoid getting attention on the real problems on FYROM, the economy. The more poor a country is the more nationalism you see eminating from it, the same goes with albania or anyone else.

    You don't need a PH.D to know the ancient macedons were greeks, you just need to look at their accomplishments and what they were pushing to shape the world at the time, it was the hellenic idea, not a slavic idea which were not even in the balkans at the time.

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    dejavu

    slavic people enter at 600 AD
    since then they have a home country in balkans,
    we were at the Greek Makedonia from 800 BC 1500 Before of you,
    we never went to Skopje or even the Natural border Iron Gates of Axios river (Bardar demir kapi) only a few kilometres from Ευγελεια (Gevgelija) but who cares, for few km

    the only one that can say that we took their lands is the Paeonians the Bithyni the Vrygians (Phrygians) and the Pieri people,
    Besides ancient makedonians use same sound and tones with Vrygians and have a rich common vocabulary (isotones) (hesychius of alexandria)
    all these tribes were ancient Thracians,
    are you a Thracian???

    but the Paeoni took place in olympic games from 330 BC
    and have a statue at Olympia

    another nation was The Bardari Huns that were settled in Αμφαξίτις (today Skopje valley) before the famous slavic invasions and Bulgarian

    Besites the 1rst Greeks that settled in today Greek Makedonia was the Bottiaioi (βοττιαιοι) ατ 1100 BC from crete,

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    Besides ALL SERBIAN GREEKS BULGARIANS AND ALBANIANS ARE FAKE TO YOU

    For me they are because of claiming wrong history.
    If I ruled I would not recognize any of those countries (if they dont accept the real history).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias2 View Post
    I find these two posts amusing and contradictory


    When you become a new country like FYROM did in 1991, you don't come off the start of your independence with land claims against bulgaria and greece, two of your neighbours, a civil war with albanians and call serbs a fake country. You only look for trouble, and its not surprising that FYROM is also the poorest country in the region either, even behind albania where they have mobsters ruling that country. Skopje is using the age old political trick of pushing nationalism sentiment to avoid getting attention on the real problems on FYROM, the economy. The more poor a country is the more nationalism you see eminating from it, the same goes with albania or anyone else.

    You don't need a PH.D to know the ancient macedons were greeks, you just need to look at their accomplishments and what they were pushing to shape the world at the time, it was the hellenic idea, not a slavic idea which were not even in the balkans at the time.
    Well said, throughout.

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    The Greek History. Continuity of fakness.

    And here is your Fake Greek enlightenment. The Fake Greeks.


    And the Greeks?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lbanian_origin
    Greeks (of Arvanite origin)
    Andreas Miaoulis
    Markos Botsaris
    Laskarina Bouboulina
    Nikolaos Krieziotis
    Xadziyiannis Mexis
    Pavlos Kountouriotis - First Greek President
    Kitsos Tzavelas
    Georgios Kountouriotis - Prime Minister of Greece under King Otto.
    Antonios Kriezis
    Dimitrios Voulgaris - He was thus one of the greatest exponents of the Modern Greek Enlightenment.
    Athanasios Miaoulis
    Diomidis Kiriakos
    Theodoros Pangalos
    Petros Voulgaris
    Alexandros Diomidis
    Nikos Engonopoulos
    Ieronymos II - Archbishop of Athens and All Greece.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_of_Greece (GERMAN)
    Otto Frederick, prince of Bavaria or Othon, king of Greece (Greek: θων, Βασιλεςτςλλάδος, Óthon, Vasiléfs tis Elládos; 1 June 1815 – 26 July 1867) was made the first modern King of Greece in 1832 under the Convention of London, whereby Greece became a new independent kingdom under the protection of the Great Powers (the United Kingdom, France and the Russian Empire).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kolettis (VLACH)
    Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: ΙωάννηςΚωλέττης) (1773[citation needed] - 1847) was a Greek politician of Vlach origin who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kapodistrias (Venetian)
    Count Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias (Greek: ΚόμηςΙωάννηςΑντώνιοςΚαποδίστριας – Komis Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias, in Italian: Giovanni Capo d'Istria, Conte Capo d'Istria, and in Russian: графИоаннКаподистрияGraf Ioann Kapodistriya) (February 11, 1776 – October 9, 1831) was a Greek diplomat of the Russian Empire and later first head of state of independent Greece.
    Ioannis Kapodistrias was born in Corfu,(Κέρκυρα/Kerkyra in Greek), one of the Ionian Islands, which at the time of his birth were a possession of Venice . He studied medicine, philosophy and the law at Padua, in Italy. When he was 21 years old, in 1797, he started his medical practice as a doctor in his native island of Corfu. He was throughout his life a deeply liberal thinker and a true democrat, though born and raised as a nobleman. An ancestor of Kapodistrias' had been created a conte (count) by Charles Emmanuel II, Duke of Savoy, and the title was later (1679) inscribed in the Libro d'Oro of the Corfu nobility; the title originates from Capodistria, a city on the eastern shore of the Gulf of Venice, now Koper in Slovenia and the place of origin of Kapodistrias' family before they moved to Corfu in the 13th century where they changed their dogma from Catholic to Orthodox and they soon became hellenized. His family's name in Koper was Vitori or Vittori. His mother's family, the Gonemi, had been listed in the Libro d'Oro since 1606. In 1802 Ioannis Kapodistrias founded an important scientific and social progress organisation in Corfu, the "National Medical Association", of which he was an energetic member. In 1799, when Corfu was briefly occupied by the forces of Russia and Turkey, Kapodistrias was appointed chief medical director of the military hospital.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kavalliotis (Aromanian)
    Theodore Kavalliotis (Greek: Θεόδωρος Αναστασίου Καβαλλιώτης, Romanian: Teodor Kavalioti, 1718 – 11 August 1789) was a Greek Orthodox priest, teacher and a figure of the Greek Enlightenment. He is also known for having drafted an Aromanian-Greek-Albanian dictionary.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigas_Feraios (Aromanian)
    Rigas Feraios or Rigas Velestinlis (Greek: Ρήγας Βελεστινλής-Φεραίος, born Αντώνιος Κυριαζής, Antonios Kyriazis; also known as Κωνσταντίνος Ρήγας, Konstantinos or Constantine Rhigas; Serbian: Рига од Фере, Riga od Fere; 1757—June 13, 1798) was a Greek writer and revolutionary, an eminent figure of the Greek Enlightenment, remembered as a Greek national hero, the first victim of the uprising against the Ottoman Empire and a forerunner of the Greek War of Independence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ent_Aromanians
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites

    Just speak Greek and have Greek name then you belong to the ancient Greeks, easy and simple.

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    The Greek Europeans?

    Ann Hum Biol. 2010 Jul 29.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20666704

    Abstract
    Background: The HLA polymorphism is a powerful genetic tool to study population origins. By analysing allele frequencies and haplotypes in different populations, it is possible to identify ethnic groups and establish the genetic relationships among them. Aim: The Berber (endogenous Tunisians) HLA class I and class II genotypes were analysed and compared with those of Mediterranean and Sub-Saharan African communities using genetic distances, Neighbour-Joining dendrograms, correspondence and haplotype analysis. Subjects and methods: One hundred and five unrelated Berbers were typed for HLA class I (A, B) and class II (DRB1, DQB1) gene alleles using reverse dot-blot hybridization. Results: High frequencies of A*0201 (24.76%), A*3402 (22.38%) and B*44 (32.85%) alleles were recorded for Berbers, the highest recorded for Mediterranean and North African populations. This study shows a close relatedness of Tunisian Berbers to other Tunisians, North Africans and Iberians. Conclusion: The apparent relatedness of Tunisian Berbers to present-day (North African) Tunisians, Algerians and Moroccans suggests that the Arab invasion of North Africa (7(th)-11(th) centuries AD) did not significantly impact the genetic makeup of North Africans. Furthermore, Tunisian Berbers appear to be closely related to Iberians (Spaniards and Basques), indicating that the 7(th) century AD gene flow of invaders was low in Iberians and that the main part of their genetic pool came after the Northward Saharan migration, when hyper-arid conditions were established in Sahara (before 6000 BC). Other studied populations belong to the old Mediterranean substratum, which has been present in the area since pre-Neolithic times. This study indicates a higher proportion of Iberian than Arab ancestry in Tunisian Berbers, which is of value in evaluating the evolutionary history of present-day Tunisians. Greeks seem to share genetic HLA features (Chr 6) with Sub-Saharans. The relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharans has been confirmed by other studies based on chromosome 7 genetic markers.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260506?dopt=Abstract.
    Villena 2001 claims that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples existing in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before arrival of the "Mycaenian Greeks",Greeks are genetically related to sub-Saharans... Hajjeja 2005 also claims that "Our study shows that the Greeks are separate from other Mediterranean populations and tend to cluster with Sub-Saharans (Figs. 2 and 3). This result confirms the Sub-Saharan origin of Greeks". Di Giacomo 2003 reported for Y Hg A found in Mitilini-Greece. Al-Zahery 2003 also separates the Macedonians/Europeans from the Greeks.....or vice versa.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16473309
    HLA genes in Southern Tunisians (Ghannouch area) and their Relationship with other Mediterraneans.
    A. Hajjej a, S. Hmida a,*, H. Kaabi a,A. Dridi a,A. Jridi a, A. El Gaa1ed b, K. Boukef a
    a National Blood Transfusion Centre, Tunis, Tunisia
    b Laboratory of Immunogenetics, Department of Biology, University of Tunis, El Manar

    Y-Chromosome Haplotypes in the Greek–Turkish Area
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/h347402u768310m3/

    Measuring European Population Stratification with Microarray Genotype Data
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852743/

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