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Thread: Macedonians

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I've decided to count my Balkan matches at MyHeritage DNA and to compare their number with the respective size of the population in question so I can calculate a percentage!
    Until now I have 812 dna matches and they keep rising day by day, which is why I appreciate MyHeritage DNA, since they have a large data base!
    By Balkan matches I mean: Macedonians, Albanians, Serbs, Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Greeks, Croats and Romanians!
    It's an easy job for a Balkaner to differentiate between people of the nations above because of the specific names and surnames the people from the Balkans have.
    The only difficulty I had was that I can't differentiate much between Serbs and Croats so I decided to lump them together with the Muslim Bosniaks under the name "Yugoslavs", mainly because many of them didn't put place of origin or they had places of origin all over the former Yugoslavia so I couldn't really know what they really are!

    This are my results:

    I match strongest with ... Macedonians. Well, not really surprising since I am Macedonian myself from the south-east of the country.
    I have 17 Macedonian matches with MyHeritage DNA, and compared to the size of the Macedonian population, I've got 0.850%!

    Second strongest match for me, surprisingly, are the Albanians. I have 60 Albanian matches which is fascinating number although when compared to their population size, that amounts to 0.600%, which is the second best and behind the Macedonians.

    The third strongest match are the Greeks. I have 67 Greek matches, which is the most of all Balkan countries, however when compared to the population size of the Greeks, that amounts to 0.432%, which is the third best result!

    The fourth strongest match are the Yugoslavs(Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks). I have 51 Yugoslav match and when compared to the population size, I get 0.242. Around 5 - 10 of those were with Mulsim names, so probably Bosniaks. I guess the Croats as well are around 5 - 10, and the rest should have Serbian origin I guess!

    The most surprising for me was that I have only 12 Bulgarian matches, which amounts to 0.126%! According to some logic that Macedonians and Bulgarians are considered as very close people, mainly because they speak very similar languages, I thought that the Bulgarians will come as a strong match, but that wasn't the case.

    And at the last place are the Romanians with who I have 26 matches and which amounts to 0.096%!

    So, my strongest matches are in this order: Macedonians, Albanians, Greeks, Yugoslavs, Bulgarians and Romanians!
    One thing I've noticed about the Albanians is that although I match strongly with them, that admixture probably happened long time ago, medievals maybe, since the longest matching segment I have with an Albanian is only 10.3 cM, with an Albanian from Macedonia!
    While with some Macedonians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks and even Romanians I match on segments long between 20 - 30 cM!
    It's also worth mentioning that I match that Albanian on two segments and the one in question(10.3 cM, Chr1), I call it the Albanian segment, because I match many other Albanians on that segment and not only from Macedonia but Albania and Kosovo as well!

    My MyHeritage DNA commercial result:

    South Europe - 51.2%
    -Greek - 30.1%
    -Italian - 21.1%

    East Europe - 48.8%
    -Balkan - 48.8%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    I've decided to count my Balkan matches at MyHeritage DNA and to compare their number with the respective size of the population in question so I can calculate a percentage!
    Until now I have 812 dna matches and they keep rising day by day, which is why I appreciate MyHeritage DNA, since they have a large data base!
    By Balkan matches I mean: Macedonians, Albanians, Serbs, Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Greeks, Croats and Romanians!
    It's an easy job for a Balkaner to differentiate between people of the nations above because of the specific names and surnames the people from the Balkans have.
    The only difficulty I had was that I can't differentiate much between Serbs and Croats so I decided to lump them together with the Muslim Bosniaks under the name "Yugoslavs", mainly because many of them didn't put place of origin or they had places of origin all over the former Yugoslavia so I couldn't really know what they really are!

    This are my results:

    I match strongest with ... Macedonians. Well, not really surprising since I am Macedonian myself from the south-east of the country.
    I have 17 Macedonian matches with MyHeritage DNA, and compared to the size of the Macedonian population, I've got 0.850%!

    Second strongest match for me, surprisingly, are the Albanians. I have 60 Albanian matches which is fascinating number although when compared to their population size, that amounts to 0.600%, which is the second best and behind the Macedonians.

    The third strongest match are the Greeks. I have 67 Greek matches, which is the most of all Balkan countries, however when compared to the population size of the Greeks, that amounts to 0.432%, which is the third best result!

    The fourth strongest match are the Yugoslavs(Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks). I have 51 Yugoslav match and when compared to the population size, I get 0.242. Around 5 - 10 of those were with Mulsim names, so probably Bosniaks. I guess the Croats as well are around 5 - 10, and the rest should have Serbian origin I guess!

    The most surprising for me was that I have only 12 Bulgarian matches, which amounts to 0.126%! According to some logic that Macedonians and Bulgarians are considered as very close people, mainly because they speak very similar languages, I thought that the Bulgarians will come as a strong match, but that wasn't the case.

    And at the last place are the Romanians with who I have 26 matches and which amounts to 0.096%!

    So, my strongest matches are in this order: Macedonians, Albanians, Greeks, Yugoslavs, Bulgarians and Romanians!
    One thing I've noticed about the Albanians is that although I match strongly with them, that admixture probably happened long time ago, medievals maybe, since the longest matching segment I have with an Albanian is only 10.3 cM, with an Albanian from Macedonia!
    While with some Macedonians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks and even Romanians I match on segments long between 20 - 30 cM!
    It's also worth mentioning that I match that Albanian on two segments and the one in question(10.3 cM, Chr1), I call it the Albanian segment, because I match many other Albanians on that segment and not only from Macedonia but Albania and Kosovo as well!

    My MyHeritage DNA commercial result:

    South Europe - 51.2%
    -Greek - 30.1%
    -Italian - 21.1%

    East Europe - 48.8%
    -Balkan - 48.8%
    What are you considering "population" here? The numbers seem quite off if you are referring to total population of each nation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mals View Post
    What are you considering "population" here? The numbers seem quite off if you are referring to total population of each nation.
    By population size I mean the overall number of a population in question in the world!
    I got the numbers from Wikipedia which cites the official numbers of the populations in question from several sources!
    For example, there are around 2 milion ethnic Macedonians in the world, not just the country.
    So, for calcupating percentage, 17 : 2000 * 100 = 0.850
    Notice that I converted 2000000 to 2000 for a better resolution.

    Than there are around 10 milion Albanians in this world.
    So we got, 60 : 10000 * 100 = 0.600
    And so on.
    Last edited by Aspar; 29-01-19 at 00:43.

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    Because we apparently have a remnant of ancient Macedonians that have remained relatively isolated (in the Kalash), and because these people recently tested as relatives of modern Austrians and Germans, am I wrong in seeing this as a serious and somewhat definitive hint of their background?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmedlin81 View Post
    Because we apparently have a remnant of ancient Macedonians that have remained relatively isolated (in the Kalash), and because these people recently tested as relatives of modern Austrians and Germans, am I wrong in seeing this as a serious and somewhat definitive hint of their background?
    This thread is about the ethnic Macedonians not about the ancient ones.
    But now since you've mentioned it, can we have a look of the DNA of these 'isolated' Kalash and compare it?
    I mean, can you back up what you are saying with a proof(dna study, ancient Macedonian sample etc.)?
    Otherwise, I will consider your contribution as nothing but a pure science fiction derived from the infamous Apricity circle!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    This thread is about the ethnic Macedonians not about the ancient ones.
    But now since you've mentioned it, can we have a look of the DNA of these 'isolated' Kalash and compare it?
    I mean, can you back up what you are saying with a proof(dna study, ancient Macedonian sample etc.)?
    Otherwise, I will consider your contribution as nothing but a pure science fiction derived from the infamous Apricity circle!
    which ethnic?

    the begore the Soros treaty?
    or the ones after?
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    There is nothing Serbian in today's Macedonians and stop spreading your Serbian propaganda around...
    I am a Macedonian with e-v13 y-dna haplogroup and my matches are mostly English, Bulgarian, Italian...
    It's suggested that id descend from the native people who lived here before the arrival of the Slavs.

    Also my autosomal dna ged match eurogenes k13 and k15 result suggests similarity with Greek Thessaly and Bulgaria.

    Here is the haplogroup diversity in modern Macedonans:

    I1 I2*/I2a I2b R1a R1b G J2 J*/J1 E1b1b T Q N
    3 23 1.5 13.5 12.5 4 14 2 21.5 1.5 0.5 0.5

    As we can see, it's much different distribution than in the Serbs where J2 and R1b are poor, and I2a is much more than in Macedonians.

    Once again stop spreading lies about the Macedonians, we have nothing to do with you.
    Thanks for the post. I see a ruined person from Macedonia here. I was very tired of reading Serbian fantasies.

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    In Bulgaria, we say that when a lie is repeated a hundred times, it becomes the truth. I am very surprised that the proud citizens of the Democratic People's Republic of Macedonia (that's the new name, right?) have not invented a new Origin Story for themselves.
    In the end, though, it's not going to matter much: they will awaken one morning and find that their haplogroups have suddenly become Albanian... and they are going to deserve it

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Why is it that both the Albanians and the current "north Macedonians" want to claim reflected glory? It's like me even though I am a Greek claiming the glory of the ancient Athenians. My folks came from Eastern Thrace they were farmers from time immemorial. Our only accomplishments were that we survived all those invaders that invaded our land. The "Northern Macedonians" and Albanians were shepherds and subsistence farmers. What can they lay claim too? Nothing! At least the Albanians/Arvanites can claim that if it wasn't for them our War of Independence might not have even started. At least they can claim that they are fierce warriors and were hired by the Genovese and the Catalans and the other great pirates of the Mediterranean to guard their castles and farm the areas around the castles in Greece. They kept the peace before the Ottomans arrived. At least they can claim that they helped build the Selimiye Mosque of Edirne (Adrianople). What have the "Northern Macedonians" done?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Why is it that both the Albanians and the current "north Macedonians" want to claim reflected glory? It's like me even though I am a Greek claiming the glory of the ancient Athenians. My folks came from Eastern Thrace they were farmers from time immemorial. Our only accomplishments were that we survived all those invaders that invaded our land. The "Northern Macedonians" and Albanians were shepherds and subsistence farmers. What can they lay claim too? Nothing! At least the Albanians/Arvanites can claim that if it wasn't for them our War of Independence might not have even started. At least they can claim that they are fierce warriors and were hired by the Genovese and the Catalans and the other great pirates of the Mediterranean to guard their castles and farm the areas around the castles in Greece. They kept the peace before the Ottomans arrived. At least they can claim that they helped build the Selimiye Mosque of Edirne (Adrianople). What have the "Northern Macedonians" done?
    its not the way to judge people! If Greeks did what they have done its not they did it because they were smarter than others. They did it because geographical conditions dictated them to build ships and explore the seas. Greeks were living in islands and needed to connect. Greece is almost an archipelago. On the other hand Albanians, N Macedonia's were mostly continental and mountaineers so remained isolated and exchanged little ideas with outside world. You can see from the DNA tests Albanians have a combination of Greek+Ballkan Dna, which shows isolation.
    When Greeks, Albanians, N Macedonians are in equal footing, like when they study in USA schools they are equally capable of doing things. Exception so far are only the Jewish who excel in larger numbers.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    its not the way to judge people! If Greeks did what they have done its not they did it because they were smarter than others. They did it because geographical conditions dictated them to build ships and explore the seas. Greeks were living in islands and needed to connect. Greece is almost an archipelago. On the other hand Albanians, N Macedonia's were mostly continental and mountaineers so remained isolated and exchanged little ideas with outside world. You can see from the DNA tests Albanians have a combination of Greek+Ballkan Dna, which shows isolation.
    When Greeks, Albanians, N Macedonians are in equal footing, like when they study in USA schools they are equally capable of doing things. Exception so far are only the Jewish who excel in larger numbers.
    There were many places with similar conditions as ancient Greece, but few (IMO none) of them developed as distinctive a civilization.

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    Most of the so-called history posted in this thread from the beginning is false. The actual ancient Macedonians mixed with the other Greeks during Hellenistic times. So no "Macedonians" separate from Greeks existed after that. That is indisputable so all the rest is false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    There were many places with similar conditions as ancient Greece, but few (IMO none) of them developed as distinctive a civilization.
    up to 400 a.d they spoke their language together with Greek. Their language was related to Illyrian and Thracian. There are documents for that. Probably Slavic invasions stopped them from using their language. Even Greek Macedonians today are genetically majority slav

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    up to 400 a.d they spoke their language together with Greek. Their language was related to Illyrian and Thracian. There are documents for that. Probably Slavic invasions stopped them from using their language. Even Greek Macedonians today are genetically majority slav
    what documents and what proves?
    all evidences are clear and to one direction.

    the rest are in the mind of ..... people

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    (Nicholas Hammond, British scholar and expert on Macedon, "A History of Macedonia" Vol. ii, 550-336 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    what documents and what proves?
    all evidences are clear and to one direction.

    the rest are in the mind of ..... people
    There are so many in English language. (Nicholas Hammond, British scholar and expert on Macedon, "A History of Macedonia" Vol. ii, 550-336 BC)“ . The best one I have read was by a History professor at Columbia University, with a Greek last name. I have forgotten his name.

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    From Wikipedia:

    Due to the fragmentary attestation of this language or dialect, various interpretations are possible.[10][page needed] Suggested phylogenetic classifications of Macedonian include:[11]



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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    From Wikipedia:

    Due to the fragmentary attestation of this language or dialect, various interpretations are possible.[10][page needed] Suggested phylogenetic classifications of Macedonian include:[11]


    Wikipedia is not the best source if you are interested about this topics. This page has been edited many times. If you search on the history of this page you will find this version before being edited:

    Ancient Macedonian language
    Ancient Macedonian language: Difference between revisions

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to navigation Jump to search


    Classification

    Due to the fragmentary attestation of this language or dialect, various interpretations are possible.[10][page needed] Suggested phylogenetic classifications of Macedonian include:[11]

    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    ok

    since we have 2019, and archaiology has found many many things.
    Linguists have much much more digits/staff/systatics to reject and or to propose and synthsize,

    the Makedonian language
    is the bellow,



    and is also in Hesychius of Alexandreia Lexicon,

    Besides if it connected with Illyrian then Dalmatia is a Makedonian word and not Albanian,

    So guys, what ever you post and you write, nobody is to take serious,

    @ Bigsnake
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    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    There were many places with similar conditions as ancient Greece, but few (IMO none) of them developed as distinctive a civilization.
    Indeed, there's not. Point one if you can. There's not such a right place as Mediterranean basin, and especially Greece for cultural development

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    Most of the so-called history posted in this thread from the beginning is false. The actual ancient Macedonians mixed with the other Greeks during Hellenistic times. So no "Macedonians" separate from Greeks existed after that. That is indisputable so all the rest is false.
    Ancient Macedonians were Hellenised Illyrians. Almost the same was for Mollosians, Thesprotians, Chaonians etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    up to 400 a.d they spoke their language together with Greek. Their language was related to Illyrian and Thracian. There are documents for that. Probably Slavic invasions stopped them from using their language. Even Greek Macedonians today are genetically majority slav
    The truth about ancient Macedons it's on the founding myth of their Royal house.

    The founders of their Royal dynasty were expatriated from their homeland in Argos, and went leaving among Illyrians, where they founded their kingdom. This is what was claimed by them , when they were finally allowed to participate at the Olympic games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    ok

    since we have 2019, and archaiology has found many many things.
    Linguists have much much more digits/staff/systatics to reject and or to propose and synthsize,

    the Makedonian language
    is the bellow,



    and is also in Hesychius of Alexandreia Lexicon,

    Besides if it connected with Illyrian then Dalmatia is a Makedonian word and not Albanian,

    So guys, what ever you post and you write, nobody is to take serious,

    @ Bigsnake
    the mad one, show the drunken one and got feared,
    Ancient Macedons are the same as the modern minority populace of Vlachs and Arvanites. For obvious reasons , they both claim an ethnic Greek affiliation, while they speak a native Albanian and Aromanian language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    The truth about ancient Macedons it's on the founding myth of their Royal house.
    The founders of their Royal dynasty were expatriated from their homeland in Argos, and went leaving among Illyrians, where they founded their kingdom. This is what was claimed by them , when they were finally allowed to participate at the Olympic games.
    So you believe one of their claims but not the other? If they were from Argos they were obviously Greeks.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by markod View Post
    So you believe one of their claims but not the other? If they were from Argos they were obviously Greeks.
    They were most likely from Argos in Orestea, not peleponnese

    Strabo: "And in fact the regions about Lyncus, Pelagonia, Orestias, and Elimeia, used to be called Upper Macedonia, though later on they were by some also called Free Macedonia. But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, 327 at the same time stating as their reason that in tonsure, language, short cloak, and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar (That is, to those of the Macedonians), although, they add, some speak both languages. (Geography, Book VII, 8, p. 309)"

    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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