Macedonians

[Milan]

Let me remeber you that at the beggining of 90s your country was totally isolated. The only country who opened the doors to your country was exactly Albania. Port of Durres was the only contact that you had with the world.

I remember well the 90's,it was the only country that didn't had war in Yugoslavia,secede peacefully pretty better than most other countries at that time.
But stories that you are telling might be known only there.

To you maybe it`s irrelevant but not for your compatriots, i mean here in this forum. Among other things, they like top play even with maps

So what if they post maps from Macedonia? it is region where they are from and their ancestors used to live and are not going anywhere,accept it.

 

[LABERIA]

I remember well the 90's,it was the only country that didn't had war in Yugoslavia,secede peacefully pretty better than most other countries at that time.
But stories that you are telling might be known only there.

You seceded peacefully, but you were isolated from North, war in Yugoslavi, south the issue of the name with Greece and east with Bulgaria. The only country who opened the gates unconditionally to you was Albania.

So what if they post maps from Macedonia? it is region where they are from and their ancestors used to live and are not going anywhere,accept it.

I have problems when people are deliberately incorrect and when they post falsifications.

 

[Milan]

I remember that i had an bad experience time ago discussing with you. I asked ten times about the Sun and you answered ten times about the Moon. My intention is not offending you, but when i read this your post, the first question that comes to my mind is, are you under the efects of the drugs?

You might have problems understanding,you live in different world by friend.

We call ourselves Shqiptar and our country Shqiperi.
In English: Albanian and Albania.
In Italian: Albanese. Country:Albania
In Greek: Αλβανός, Alvanós. Country: Αλβανία, Alvanía
In serb language: албански, albanski. Country: Албанија, Albanija.
In the language of FYROM: Албански, Albanski. Country:Албанија, Albanija.

We also called you Shqiptars but you find it derogatory,there wasn't ethnic term Albanian in history,and we call you Albanci now because you insist on that,i have nothing against that,in medieval language you were Arbanashi.That is history if you have problems with that just don't read it thought.

No, we are not telling how you will call yourselves. But in Balcan there are other nationalities and we intend to respect all the Balcan people. You have an issue with your name and you have to resolve it with other people, not with us.So, until then, we will call your country FYROM and the infhabitants fyromski or firomski, it`s the same.

I have issue with no one,i pretty much travel anywhere i want with my passport,that "issue" with Greece doesn't affect my life at all,what they does is they block the country from joining the EU and Nato with that name,so what?
You can call whatever you like,your opinion and words are totally irrelevant.
I can call you Shqiptar,Bashibozuk and Turk in return.Also your country former province of Serbia.Greece former Ottoman province.How civilized of me that will be.

After reading your posts, i doubt that you have ever meet an Albanian in your life. I doubt if you are abble to find in the map Albania.

In reality i grow up with some of them in my old neighborhood...

 

[Milan]

You seceded peacefully, but you were isolated from North, war in Yugoslavi, south the issue of the name with Greece and east with Bulgaria. The only country who opened the gates unconditionally to you was Albania.

Thank you Albania then

I have problems when people are deliberately incorrect and when they post falsifications.

Man your entire school system is based that you are descendants of Illyrians of entire province of Illyricum without proof have busts of queen Teuta and you are giving advices.You are nothing better than the bunch of Macedonians that practice that,plus mainstream history never stated such things,that current Macedonia descent from ancient,but your mainstream does say that you are Illyrian,is it there a differencee?
Have a good day/night,it was enough of Balkan issues,if you want to discuss them might someone will join you,there is better threads in this forum.

 

[LABERIA]

You might have problems understanding,you live in different world by friend.

I think the same for you and let me explain why.

We also called you Shqiptars but you find it derogatory,there wasn't ethnic term Albanian either in history,and we call you Albanci now because you insist on that,i have nothing against that,in medieval language you were Arbanashi.That is history if you have problems with that just don't read it thought.

Try to be serious. We have problems with an derogatory term used by serb propaganda: Shiftar. This is ofensive for us, not Shqiptar. Do you understand

I have issue with no one,i pretty much travel anywhere i want with my passport,that "issue" with Greece doesn't affect my life at all,what they does is they block the country from joining the EU and Nato with that name,so what?
You can call whatever you like,your opinion and words are totally irrelevant.

It became a member of the United Nations in 1993, but, as a result of an ongoing dispute with Greece over the use of the name Macedonia, was admitted under the provisional description the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia^[10][11] (sometimes unofficially abbreviated as FYROM), a term that is also used by international organizations such as the European Union,^[12] the Council of Europe^[13] and NATO.^[14]
This is how the world know you for the moment. I don`t know what will happens latter.

I can call you Shqiptar,Bashibozuk and Turk in return.Also your country former province of Serbia.Greece former Ottoman province.How civilized of me that will be.

Appart Shqiptar which i agree and i have no problem you have no historicall or official right to call me Bashibozuk and Turk.If you continue to do, i will report you.

In reality i grow up with some of them in my old neighborhood...

I start to doubt if you have ever been in FYROM.

 

[LABERIA]

Thank you Albania then



Man your entire school system is based that you are descendants of Illyrians of entire province of Illyricum without proof have busts of queen Teuta and you are giving advices.You are nothing better than the bunch of Macedonians that practice that,plus mainstream history never stated such things,that current Macedonia descent from ancient,but your mainstream does say that you are Illyrian,is it there a differencee?
Have a good day i won't discuss this issues there is better threads in this forum.

Let me explain you something. During the middle age(i don`t know when this started) with Macedonian were known Albanians and not some Bulgars who lost their way in the corridors and drawers of UDB.

 

[Milan]

Let me explain you something. During the middle age(i don`t know when this started) with Macedonian were known Albanians and not some Bulgars who lost their way in the corridors and drawers of UDB.

So basically the Shqiptars (Albanians) are not only Illyrians and Pelasgians but also ancient Macedonians,i mean i noticed this,i know this is popular among hardcore Albanian nationalists such is yourself just don't hide that.

 

[LABERIA]

So basically the Shqiptars (Albanians) are not only Illyrians and Pelasgians but also ancient Macedonians,i mean i noticed this,i know this is popular among hardcore Albanian nationalists such is yourself just don't hide that.

First, if you decide to call us as we call ourselves, then learn Albanian and in this case use Shqiptaret. You can not take this s from English and attach it to an Albanian word.
Second, our neighbors called us Macedonians, not hardcore Albanian nationalists.

 

[Milan]

First, if you decide to call us as we call ourselves, then learn Albanian and in this case use Shqiptaret. You can not take this s from English and attach it to an Albanian word.
Second, our neighbors called us Macedonians, not hardcore Albanian nationalists.

Ok issue solved Albanians are descendants of ancient Macedonians and Illyrians.

 

[LABERIA]

Ok issue solved Albanians are descendants of ancient Macedonians and Illyrians.

And we learned that you have difficulty to follow a decent conversation.

 

[Yetos]

I see why we re-open the thread,

Albanians want to tell us that they are 'trully' Illyrians
and ancient Makedonians were 'trully' Albanians,
and Pharaoh Ramses was also 'trully' Albanian,
as Etruscans and Cypriots,

Did I forgot someone?

 

[LABERIA]

I see why we re-open the thread,

Albanians want to tell us that they are 'trully' Illyrians
and ancient Makedonians were 'trully' Albanians,
and Pharaoh Ramses was also 'trully' Albanian,
as Etruscans and Cypriots,

Did I forgot someone?

No, as usually you are not correct. But this is something that all here know. Nothing new.

 

[Nik]

Laberia, wait until Milan exposes himself with the theory that Thracians were Slavs and Slavs spread from the Balkans to the North. Since the ancient Macedonians are sometimes related to Thracians, I wouldn't be surprised to hear from him that Alexander the Great was a Slav too.

And this very same guy has the guts to accuse Albanians of propaganda, when all we do is point all the time the similarities we Balkan people have culturally, anthropologically, and genetically, while all u do is trying to distance urselves from being related to Albanians at all costs. I'm sure that every time u read genetic papers indicating a shared common ancestry with Albanians ur brains defense system starts to create fantasy theories on how Slavs left their genetic imprint in Albania while on their to be the Sea People and later on Philistines and whatever other funny theory u support.

So id rather stick to being an Albanian who sees Montenegrins, Herzegovinians, Serbs and Greeks as our closest kin despite speaking different languages rather than be blind by hatred and believe to be unique and different from all.

Oh and Yetos, I'm really curious to know that out of ur over 3000 posts how many times people actually debated with u or even considered ur imput. Ur like a complimentary hater package for everyone daring to mention the word Albanian in a topic. Were u a victim of abuse by Albanian immigrants in Greece or it's an innate reaction?

 

[Milan]

Laberia, wait until Milan exposes himself with the theory that Thracians were Slavs and Slavs spread from the Balkans to the North. Since the ancient Macedonians are sometimes related to Thracians, I wouldn't be surprised to hear from him that Alexander the Great was a Slav too.

Very pitty that you will not hear that,also i do not suggest any spread from south to north or opposite.I am against flood "great migration" which is very visible above all in our genetics,archeology is different issue.That's from my thread perhaps 6th and 7th century that is.The similarities of the languages to a degree were noted by linguists not by me.Also this Thracian-Macedonian connection was brought by your compatriots.

And this very same guy has the guts to accuse Albanians of propaganda, when all we do is point all the time the similarities we Balkan people have culturally, anthropologically, and genetically, while all u do is trying to distance urselves from being related to Albanians at all costs.

I always point to similarities,but the thing that i don't agree with nationalistic propaganda is rather different.

So id rather stick to being an Albanian who sees Montenegrins, Herzegovinians, Serbs and Greeks as our closest kin despite speaking different languages rather than be blind by hatred and believe to be unique and different from all.

Very weird you and your compatriots express that,while maintaning that Albanians were Illyrians once living in entire Illyricum that's almost all Yugoslavia, let alone Pelasgians and ancient Macedonians.Sorry that i am not adherent to that theory either,pure phantasmagoria.

 

[Nik]

Very pitty that you will not hear that,also i do not suggest any spread from south to north or opposite.I am against flood "great migration" which is very visible above all in our genetics,archeology is different issue.That's from my thread perhaps 6th and 7th century that is.The similarities of the languages to a degree were noted by linguists not by me.Also this Thracian-Macedonian connection was brought by your compatriots.

Ur opposition to the "great migration" could be simply justified by linguistic assimilation, which is the most common cause of any regions linguistic change. But u can't accept that, can u?

And the Thracian-Macedonian connection is a fact as Thracians contributed A LOT to the Macedonian ethnos, probably more than any other ethnicity back then, including the real old Macedonians (if they ever existed as a separate ethnicity).

Very weird you and your compatriots express that,while maintaning that Albanians were Illyrians once living in entire Illyricum that's almost all Yugoslavia, let alone Pelasgians and ancient Macedonians.Sorry that i am not adherent to that theory either,pure phantasmagoria.

Ure a member of this forum for some time and u still can't accept that Albanians are genetically and linguistically local and to make things harder for u Slavs we're rather too Southern in terms of haplogroups, making all the Northern migration theories laughable.

And stoo trying to twist words to make us look like the bad guys as we never claimed to be numerous enough to occupy the entire Illyricum. Unfortunately we lost most of our closest cousins to a cause called Pan-Slavism through assimilation and brainwashing, although I believe Vlachs suffered from it even more.

Long story short, stop labeling urself as a truth seeker as we've all seen how u ridiculously try to argue with Taranis on several occasions and how u shamefully ignore all the genetic data just to prove that Slavs r indigenous and Albanians are not.

So again, FYROMians are not at all Ancient Macedonians but Paeonians, Dardanians, Illyro-Thracians with a slight Slavic admixture. This is a fact and just stick to the topic instead of disregarding facts just because an Albanian pointed them out.

 

[Milan]

I never brought your origin in question which is something I care less,neither i care you are indigenous or not.Why are you so much obsessed with other people origin.If you ask me perhaps you are indigenous from Balkan or somewhere around it but i don't believe in phantasmagoria you does.Depends if we speak on language,genetics or whatever in what period of time.Vlachs are the perfect citizens of Balkans they don't bother with this rather they stick where they live so please don't use them for your cause.Romanians even used OCS in churches until 19th century which doesn't made them Slavs.Your theory is so wrong.As for claiming a mixture for others but you the perfect non assimilated like Vlachs or Slavs, just take a look in your language,which is mix of Latin(Vlach)Greek,Ottoman Turkish,Slavic,unkown and native Albanian making it hard to connect to any language.Shqiptars are mixture of what according to language or genetics,really sorry that discussion with you in this topic always go this way,I hope that can be improved if not why are we disscusing this.I really don't come on this forum to argue about that,but i just adressed some propaganda which was indirectly against me,if you don't like it don't read it and I don't know why 3-4 people with Albanian origin comment on Ancient Macedonian origin and current R.Macedonia for which two separate threads need to be open,how this "issue" affect you.

 

[LABERIA]

Very weird you and your compatriots express that,while maintaning that Albanians were Illyrians once living in entire Illyricum that's almost all Yugoslavia, let alone Pelasgians and ancient Macedonians.Sorry that i am not adherent to that theory either,pure phantasmagoria.

This distortion of reality is not correct. The opinion of Albanians about their ethnogenesis, connections with Illyrians and problems like this has been explained by Albanian and international scholars. Speaking about Albanians, you have to take in consideration this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_Sciences_of_Albania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_of_Albanological_Studies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Tirana
and other important insitutes. The opinion of Albanians, of course is not represented by some bloggers, members of internet forums, let alone some serbs who use Albanian nickname in forums(we had the visit of a couple of them here).
It is accepted by the scientific community that the Albanians are a paleo-Balkan populations, in linguistic and genetic terms. From all the ancient populations who once lived in Balcan peninsula, ancient greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, ancient macedonians, etc, only two survived, Albanians and Vlachs. Albanians, from the majority of scientific community are seen as descendants of Illyrians, meanwhile about the vlachs there are many theories, but we are not sure if they are connected with today Romanians or not, etc. From all the ancient languages of this Peninsula only Albanian survived. For this reason, exist many theories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that any scientist in the field is in a position to understand and either provide empirical support ("verify") or empirically contradict ("falsify") it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,^[4] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which is better characterized by the word 'hypothesis').^[5] Scientific theories are distinguished from hypotheses, which are individual empirically testable conjectures, and scientific laws, which are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions.

Definitions from scientific organizations


The United States National Academy of Sciences defines scientific theories as follows:

The formal scientific definition of "theory" is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics)...One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed.^[14]
​

From the American Association for the Advancement of Science:

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact.^[13]

​

Many theories become obsolete and proven unfounded, new theories arise. This is how roll the world and of course the science. I have explained more than once in this forum that the opinion of modern Albanian scholars that there is no prove of connection between Albanian language and the language spoken from Pelasgian population. We don`t know nothing about this populations. If you consider as a credible source of your information, people without an academic background, without a name but just nicknames, this is your problem, not ours.

Very pitty that you will not hear that,also i do not suggest any spread from south to north or opposite.I am against flood "great migration" which is very visible above all in our genetics,archeology is different issue.That's from my thread perhaps 6th and 7th century that is.The similarities of the languages to a degree were noted by linguists not by me.Also this Thracian-Macedonian connection was brought by your compatriots.
I always point to similarities,but the thing that i don't agree with nationalistic propaganda is rather different.

Except theories also exist pseudo-theories. And this part of your post is an typical pseudo-theory. And this is not product of some sick minds. NO. This is official:

Just for curiosity, why you are so obssesed with Alexander III and Philip II? Their names suggest that were other Alexander and Philip, Kings of Macedonia. Let me help you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argead_dynasty#Dynasty
Would be nice if for example you name a square Archelaus II or Amyntas III.

 

[Nik]

I never brought your origin in question which is something I care less,neither i care you are indigenous or not.Why are you so much obsessed with other people origin.If you ask me perhaps you are indigenous from Balkan or somewhere around it but i don't believe in phantasmagoria you does.Depends if we speak on language,genetics or whatever in what period of time.Vlachs are the perfect citizens of Balkans they don't bother with this rather they stick where they live so please don't use them for your cause.Romanians even used OCS in churches until 19th century which doesn't made them Slavs.Your theory is so wrong.As for claiming a mixture for others but you the perfect non assimilated like Vlachs or Slavs, just take a look in your language,which is mix of Latin(Vlach)Greek,Ottoman Turkish,Slavic,unkown and native Albanian making it hard to connect to any language.Shqiptars are mixture of what according to language or genetics,really sorry that discussion with you in this topic always go this way,I hope that can be improved if not why are we disscusing this.I really don't come on this forum to argue about that,but i just adressed some propaganda which was indirectly against me,if you don't like it don't read it and I don't know why 3-4 people with Albanian origin comment on Ancient Macedonian origin and current R.Macedonia for which two separate threads need to be open,how this "issue" affect you.

1) Can u actually give me a specific example of this phantasmagoria u speak of? Coz i believe ur putting words in my mouth based on what u read from other Albanians.

2) Find me the post where I said "we are the perfect non mixed" people and I will take it back and apologize.

3) What's the problem with a language having loan words? It reflects its history and instead of using it against me u should actually be amazed how this language survived after so many invasions. But I guess u will never let ur guard down against ur "natural enemy" and hate us at all costs until ur last day and make sure to pass to ur children the hate for Siptari.

4) Can u deny the fact that u have Ottoman, Latin, Greek, German, and Albanian words in ur language?

5) What propaganda did I use against u or Macedonians? That u live in the lands of Ancient Paeonia, Dardanian, Illyria and Thracian? That is propaganda to u?

6) 3-4 people of Albanian origin commented on the thread about Macedonians because they want and they can. That's why we're members of this forum, to comment wherever we are interested to share an opinion or feel the need to ask for information. Is that a problem to u?

 

[LABERIA]

I never brought your origin in question which is something I care less,neither i care you are indigenous or not.Why are you so much obsessed with other people origin.If you ask me perhaps you are indigenous from Balkan or somewhere around it but i don't believe in phantasmagoria you does.Depends if we speak on language,genetics or whatever in what period of time.Vlachs are the perfect citizens of Balkans they don't bother with this rather they stick where they live so please don't use them for your cause.Romanians even used OCS in churches until 19th century which doesn't made them Slavs.Your theory is so wrong.As for claiming a mixture for others but you the perfect non assimilated like Vlachs or Slavs, just take a look in your language,which is mix of Latin(Vlach)Greek,Ottoman Turkish,Slavic,unkown and native Albanian making it hard to connect to any language.Shqiptars are mixture of what according to language or genetics,really sorry that discussion with you in this topic always go this way,I hope that can be improved if not why are we disscusing this.I really don't come on this forum to argue about that,but i just adressed some propaganda which was indirectly against me,if you don't like it don't read it and I don't know why 3-4 people with Albanian origin comment on Ancient Macedonian origin and current R.Macedonia for which two separate threads need to be open,how this "issue" affect you.

Does not exist the concept of ethnic purity. Albanians as a nation have important admixtures, but not decisive. Testimonies for this is our language, which is not an mix of Latin(Vlach)Greek,Ottoman Turkish,Slavic,unkown and native Albanian. You are wrong and i consider pointless to explain to you the influence of other languages in Albanian and the the influence of Albanians in other Balcan languages. Your problem is that you don`t know nothing about this topics. Start to read first what processes happened in the last 200 years with the languages of greeks, serbs, romanians, turks, etc. This processes did not happened with the Albanian language.
Honestly, there is nothing to discuss about you. You have to be proud about your slav ancestors and stop inventing this new glorious ancestors.
Problem is when you start to distort history and start to play with maps.

 

[VMRO1893]

I am surprised to see so many Albanians challenging Macedonians to call themselves as such, especially since both Albania and Kosovo recognize us as such, both our state and the Macedonian ethnicity and language. I would have expected Greek posters to post their opposition to us, but not so much Albanians. Perhaps Greeks are sick of the issue, as we are. Time to close this ridiculous name issue and move on.