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Thread: Macedonians

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    Pausanias
    Greek Historian
    "Leosthenes at the head of the Athenians and the united Greeks defeated the Macedonians in Boeotia and again outside Thermopylae forced them into Lamia" [1.1.3]."I have already said in my history of Attica that the defeat at Chaeronea was a disaster for all the Greeks" [9.6.5]. "After the death of Alexander, when the Greeks had raised a second war against the Macedonians, the Messenians took part, as I have shown earlier in my account of Attica" [4.28.3]."When Philip the son of Amyntas would not let Greece alone, the Eleans, weakened by civil strife, joined the Macedonian alliance, but they could not bring themselves to fight against the Greeks at Chaeronea. They joined Philip's attack on the Lacedaemonians because of their old hatred of that people, but on the death of Alexander they fought on the side of the Greeks against Antipater and the Macedonians" [5.4.9]."When Philip, the son of Demetrius, reached men's estate, and Antigonus without reluctance handed over the sovereignty of the Macedonians, he struck fear into the hearts of all the Greeks. He copied Philip, the son of Amyntas" [7.7.5].

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    Macedonians were non-Greek tribes who became Greek over time. Same deal with the Dorians, Albanians, Scythians and Slavs who came to Greece.

    No need to complicate things further by people here posting walls of irrelevant texts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherland View Post
    Macedonians were non-Greek tribes who became Greek over time. Same deal with the Dorians, Albanians, Scythians and Slavs who came to Greece.

    No need to complicate things further by people here posting walls of irrelevant texts.
    Became Greek ? With what action ? Because some of them accepting Hellenism ? Hellenism was religious thing in that time, in that time there where not GREEKS or GREECE... Hellenes were different kind of ethnicities Assyrians,Egyptianss,Persians,Jews etc... not only nowdays "Greeks"...
    Maybe some of them accepted hellenism and maybe they mixed with some marriages...And thats not IRRELEVANT texts ... thats texts from most famouse historians from antique like from modern time...

    Macedonians were not Greeks...
    marriages

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    Quote Originally Posted by RagnarofMacedon View Post
    Became Greek ? With what action ? Because some of them accepting Hellenism ? Hellenism was religious thing in that time, in that time there where not GREEKS or GREECE... Hellenes were different kind of ethnicities Assyrians,Egyptianss,Persians,Jews etc... not only nowdays "Greeks"...
    Maybe some of them accepted hellenism and maybe they mixed with some marriages...And thats not IRRELEVANT texts ... thats texts from most famouse historians from antique like from modern time...

    Macedonians were not Greeks...
    marriages
    you are confusing it with Rome. Rome became an ideal, not only the city. beaming with pride Greeks up to 100 years ago were calling themselves Romei,. Then king Otto from Germany told them: we are going to call you Greeks aand Greeks accepted. You are right Greeks are a mixture of ethnicities, not a single ethnicity

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    That the Macedonian was a distinct vernacular characteristic to the Macedonians confirm the anti-Macedonian speeches given by the great orator from Athens, Demosthenes. In his work "Philippic" Demosthenes gave the following insulting remark about the Macedonian King Philip II of Macedon:
    "That man Philip, not only he is not a Greek, but also he does not have anything in common with the Greeks. If only he would have been a barbarian from a decent country - but he is not even that. He is a scabby creature from Macedonia - a land that one can not even bring a slave that is worth something from".15)
    The question why Demosthenes named Philip as a barbarian becomes imminent. Majority of the scientists believe that the term "barbarians" in the ancient period was used to refer mainly to people that spoke language that Greeks could not understand, usually accompanied by a dose of disregard towards the culture of the people speaking that language. It is well known that all the people that did not speak Greek were named "barbarians", whereas the Greeks from the city-states used the word "xenoi" when referring to one-another.16)
    Demosthenes was not alone in naming the Macedonians "barbarians". Ancient Greek historian Isocrates also called the Macedonians "barbarians".17)

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    So at WW2 the Germans attack the Netherlands,
    and Netherlands resist,,


    So By your Logic Ragnaro,

    Deutsch are Germans, Dutsch are Not?


    WHAT A LOGIC? SMART INDEED
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    So at WW2 the Germans attack the Netherlands,
    and Netherlands resist,,


    So By your Logic Ragnaro,

    Deutsch are Germans, Dutsch are Not?


    WHAT A LOGIC? SMART INDEED

    "I have already said in my history of Attica that the defeat at Chaeronea was a disaster for all the Greeks" [9.6.5].

    Bye

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    Yes, great articles Ragnar but what's your take on this? You are not proving that they were Slavs, and you're not proving that you're Makedonian either.

    You're just a modern North Macedonian Slav.

    Yetos might be a Greek, but he has way more real Makedonian blood than any of you Slavo-Paeonians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Yes, great articles Ragnar but what's your take on this? You are not proving that they were Slavs, and you're not proving that you're Makedonian either.

    You're just a modern North Macedonian Slav.

    Yetos might be a Greek, but he has way more real Makedonian blood than any of you Slavo-Paeonians.

    Most Macedonians today have some ancestry from Makedonia which is now in Greece so I don't get what you mean by having a real Makedonian blood or Paeonian...

    These maps represent the real situation in Makedonia before the Greeks changed not only the population living there but the names of cities, villages, mountains, rivers etc., in other words, an ethnic cleansing without precedence, which is still neglected in modern world and not many know about it...











    Now, these maps are not made up by me as you can see but are real maps by ethnographers from around the world regarding the period before the Balkan wars and mainly at the end of 19th century.

    The Greeks even made a propaganda about us as having been a recent Macedonians made by Tito, but if we take some accounts of some ethnographers, let's say the Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil Kanchov and his ethnographic book about Macedonia in the 19th century, according to who the local Bulgarians and Vlachs in Macedonia call themselves Macedonians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo...s#cite_note-10

    As we see, Kanchov calls these people local Bulgarians but it's not important how he calls them, what is important it's how they call themselves and here goes "Tito made us" down the drain...

    At the best, the modern people of North Macedonia can be described as a Macedonian-Slavic mix with additional Albanian, Vlach and Serb mixture here and there or else why should I have only a Paeonian blood when my ancestry mainly comes from the borders of ancient Macedonia which today's south-eastern part of North Macedonia and municipality of Kukus and Gumendza in today's Greece belonged to...

    The problem is that the Greeks try to denounce us of anything Macedonian related and to embrace Paeonian, Slavic, Bulgar or anything else but not Macedonian which I've explained before is not something recent but my own ancestors were calling themselves Macedonians at least since the 19th century, long before Tito...

    If anything, Macedonia has long ago stopped being solely Greek, if it ever was, but had became also Latin, Illyrian and Slavic at least since the 6th century AD.

    By these I mean only a linguistic affiliation as taking it as an ethnic denomination is pure madness since the Latins, Illyrians, Slavs are ancient and early medieval people while modern nations are mixture of those...

    Saying you are just a "North Macedonian Slav" has exactly the same idiocy as saying you are just an English German, an Irish or Scottish Celt, a French or Spanish Latin...

    It would be interesting seeing the Scots start telling to the English to go back in Germany or that they are just British Germans as some of this stupidity is occurring in modern Balkans...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    Most Macedonians today have some ancestry from Makedonia which is now in Greece so I don't get what you mean by having a real Makedonian blood or Paeonian...

    These maps represent the real situation in Makedonia before the Greeks changed not only the population living there but the names of cities, villages, mountains, rivers etc., in other words, an ethnic cleansing without precedence, which is still neglected in modern world and not many know about it...

    Now, these maps are not made up by me as you can see but are real maps by ethnographers from around the world regarding the period before the Balkan wars and mainly at the end of 19th century.

    The Greeks even made a propaganda about us as having been a recent Macedonians made by Tito, but if we take some accounts of some ethnographers, let's say the Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil Kanchov and his ethnographic book about Macedonia in the 19th century, according to who the local Bulgarians and Vlachs in Macedonia call themselves Macedonians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo...s#cite_note-10

    As we see, Kanchov calls these people local Bulgarians but it's not important how he calls them, what is important it's how they call themselves and here goes "Tito made us" down the drain...

    At the best, the modern people of North Macedonia can be described as a Macedonian-Slavic mix with additional Albanian, Vlach and Serb mixture here and there or else why should I have only a Paeonian blood when my ancestry mainly comes from the borders of ancient Macedonia which today's south-eastern part of North Macedonia and municipality of Kukus and Gumendza in today's Greece belonged to...

    The problem is that the Greeks try to denounce us of anything Macedonian related and to embrace Paeonian, Slavic, Bulgar or anything else but not Macedonian which I've explained before is not something recent but my own ancestors were calling themselves Macedonians at least since the 19th century, long before Tito...

    If anything, Macedonia has long ago stopped being solely Greek, if it ever was, but had became also Latin, Illyrian and Slavic at least since the 6th century AD.

    By these I mean only a linguistic affiliation as taking it as an ethnic denomination is pure madness since the Latins, Illyrians, Slavs are ancient and early medieval people while modern nations are mixture of those...

    Saying you are just a "North Macedonian Slav" has exactly the same idiocy as saying you are just an English German, an Irish or Scottish Celt, a French or Spanish Latin...

    It would be interesting seeing the Scots start telling to the English to go back in Germany or that they are just British Germans as some of this stupidity is occurring in modern Balkans...
    Makedonia started as a separate ethnic group and small kingdom north of Thessaly and dare I say a cultural extension of people of Epirotic and South Illyrian stock.

    Eventually it grew slightly bigger into becoming the region of Makedonia located in modern Greece, and eventually an even bigger geographical designation during the Roman Empire.

    So when part of your Slavic ancestors came they found in Makedonia (geographically) the ancestors of Vlachs, Albanians, and Greeks, so them taking the name Macedonian means nothing since your compatriot here is talking about the Makedonians during the reign of Philip. Therefore, we need to discuss about the Makedonian ancestry in a stricter sense than the Medieval geographical term.

    I'm aware that some of your compatriots were kicked out from Greece and settled in modern North Macedonia, but we're talking about a country where officially 1/4 of the population is Albanian, a large chunk of ex-Albanian orthodox people that are forced to accept the Macedonian identity while striving for equality, an unknown number of Vlachs which is the ethnic group absorbed the most by others (Albanians being second), and the vast majority of fake Turks (being mostly Albanian and Vlachs) which constituted 15-20% of the population until half a century ago.

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    According to the Middle Persian sources, Alexander was an Egyptian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RagnarofMacedon View Post
    "I have already said in my history of Attica that the defeat at Chaeronea was a disaster for all the Greeks" [9.6.5].

    Bye

    Which Greeks?
    the central Greeks? the North Greeks? the Greeks in Asia? the Greeks in Italy? the Greeks in Crimaia? the Cretans? the Cypriots?



    STOP BEING PATHETIC AND RIDICULOUS.

    SLAVS
    Poland
    Czechia
    Slovakia
    Slovenia
    Serbia
    Croatia
    Bosnia
    Bulgaria (Severi )
    Bardarska Bodivina, modern Severnja
    etc

    GERMANS
    Deutsch
    Dutsch
    Austrians
    Flanders
    Prussians
    etc

    GREEKS modern
    Cretans
    Makedonians
    Cyrpiots
    Epirotans
    peloponese
    Roumeliotes
    Aegean Central
    Aeagean S East
    Ionian islands
    Crimaia
    Pontic Greeks
    Kappadokian
    Minor Asians (Smyrne Kula Magnissa)
    Italo-Greeks
    Austrian Greeks
    Con/polites
    Greco-Thracians.


    Just Accept it

    Strabo writes
    Hellas stops at Thessaly at Pineos river
    excluding Epirus and Makedonia
    but he also writes,
    primitive Greece is Epirus and
    Makedonia is Greece.

    Demosthenes
    the biggest enemy of Philipp says
    For HE (philipp) is not a Greek
    but he is not even a Barbarian
    he is just a Makedonian scum

    SO Ragna what are you?

    S
    ERBS?
    BULGARIANS?
    BOSNIANS?
    CROATS?
    or Suddenly you deny your Slavic language?
    and decide that you are not Slavs?

    I Wonder What DEMOSTHENES WOULD SAY ABOUT YOU GUYS?

    BTW

    DUSAN OF SERBIA King of Serbians




    CIMEON OF BULGARIA Tsar of Bulgarians


    ALEXANDROS OF MAKEDONIA King OF GREEKS (not Slavs )


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    According to the Middle Persian sources, Alexander was an Egyptian.
    Yauna Takabara

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Makedonia started as a separate ethnic group and small kingdom north of Thessaly and dare I say a cultural extension of people of Epirotic and South Illyrian stock.

    Eventually it grew slightly bigger into becoming the region of Makedonia located in modern Greece, and eventually an even bigger geographical designation during the Roman Empire.

    So when part of your Slavic ancestors came they found in Makedonia (geographically) the ancestors of Vlachs, Albanians, and Greeks, so them taking the name Macedonian means nothing since your compatriot here is talking about the Makedonians during the reign of Philip. Therefore, we need to discuss about the Makedonian ancestry in a stricter sense than the Medieval geographical term.

    I'm aware that some of your compatriots were kicked out from Greece and settled in modern North Macedonia, but we're talking about a country where officially 1/4 of the population is Albanian, a large chunk of ex-Albanian orthodox people that are forced to accept the Macedonian identity while striving for equality, an unknown number of Vlachs which is the ethnic group absorbed the most by others (Albanians being second), and the vast majority of fake Turks (being mostly Albanian and Vlachs) which constituted 15-20% of the population until half a century ago.
    Any sources for the bolded part?

    Because from what I have read from ancient writers, the ancient Macedonians were described as descendants of Brygians, Bryges(Thracians) as per Herodotus...

    When my Slavic ancestors came, they found my Macedonian or Paeonian ancestors and I don't understand the need to underline my own Slavic ancestors...

    As I said earlier, such nebulous as saying my Slavic ancestors came and met your(Albanian, Vlach, Greek) ancestors is a pure idiocy...

    Mine own ancestors are from diverse group of people as pretending that all my ancestors come from one ancient or early medieval group of people is equal to lunacy, but I understand your position perfectly...

    Now, for historical sake, the first mentioning of Albanians and Vlachs dates much later than the first mentioning of the Slavs in the Balkans...

    And they are mentioned in Arbanon(modern Albania) and Thessaly and Epirus(in the case of the Vlachs), so I am not sure what are you trying to apply here but if I guess correctly what it is, than you are trying to suggest who was the first one as it happens in the Balkans more often...

    Now, as is the case with the egg and the chicken, you are logic as you've been the First in Macedonia and We are invaders that came later is doomed because there is always someone else who lived there before, and we can go all the way down to the Neolithic farmers or Mesolithic HG but I understand your position again.

    You try to underline my own Slavics ancestors while no mentioning of my own Macedonian ancestors which by your logic, can only be ancestors of Vlachs, Albanians and Greeks.

    My Slavic ancestors taking the name means nothing for you but means a lot to us, because there is a clear continuation of the word Macedonia, because they lived and mixed with people already present in Macedonia, be it Romans, Greeks or simply Macedonians of Thracian, Illyrian affiliation, something that is nightmare for some people in the Balkans...

    Now, once again the account of Kanchov in full:

    "The local Bulgarians and Kucovlachs who live in the area of Macedonia call themselves Macedonians, and the surrounding nations also call them so. Turks and Arnauts from Macedonia do not call themselves Macedonians, but when asked where they are from, they respond: from Macedonia. Arnauts from the north and north west limits of the area, who also call their country Arnautluk, and Greeks who live in the southern areas, do not call themselves Macedonians, hence the borders in these areas according to the peoples’ perception are not clearly defined."

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    When my Slavic ancestors came, they found my Macedonian or Paeonian ancestors

    ...

    Now, as is the case with the egg and the chicken, you are logic as you've been the First in Macedonia and We are invaders that came later is doomed because there is always someone else who lived there before, and we can go all the way down to the Neolithic farmers or Mesolithic HG but I understand your position again.

    You try to underline my own Slavics ancestors while no mentioning of my own Macedonian ancestors which by your logic, can only be ancestors of Vlachs, Albanians and Greeks.

    My Slavic ancestors taking the name means nothing for you but means a lot to us, because there is a clear continuation of the word Macedonia, because they lived and mixed with people already present in Macedonia, be it Romans, Greeks or simply Macedonians of Thracian, Illyrian affiliation, something that is nightmare for some people in the Balkans...

    Now, once again the account of Kanchov in full:

    "The local Bulgarians and Kucovlachs who live in the area of Macedonia call themselves Macedonians, and the surrounding nations also call them so. Turks and Arnauts from Macedonia do not call themselves Macedonians, but when asked where they are from, they respond: from Macedonia. Arnauts from the north and north west limits of the area, who also call their country Arnautluk, and Greeks who live in the southern areas, do not call themselves Macedonians, hence the borders in these areas according to the peoples’ perception are not clearly defined."
    I still prefer it as Menelaos Lountemis explains it,

    The Krusevo Vlachs Did not want Bulgarians, cause they took their soldiers to Bulgarian Army
    They did not want the Serbs cause they treat them as Bulgarians
    in the begin they like us the Greeks, due to Patrik (Patriarch) and away from Exarchate
    but their local cultural was closer to local S Slavic population, and away from other Greek cultures that came to makedonian struggle,
    their billingual was Aromanian and Slavic,
    so at the End they decide to reject the Greeks also, just the era that WW1 was expected and balkans wars were about to start
    and They made the Iliden and Krusevo demokracy (rebublic)

    but they should found a name and an origin,
    so they declare them shelves as Makedonian Orthodox, (Notice this, Not Greeks, not Slavs, not Exarchate, not Serbian patriarch, but Con/polis Patriarch)

    that idea in the begin was rejected by all by Bulgarians since they believed them as Bulgarians
    by Serbs, since Skopjie and Ohrid were somehow important to their history, and their connection with the Thessaloniki port,
    by Greeks, cause Historically has no meaning,

    the existance of that state that is called offcially Fyrom or today Severnja Makedonia was never a problem for Makedonians (Greeks),
    as long this state has no attacking policy, it was just a state or province of Serbia, or could be Bulgaria,
    and most Greeks that lived there abandon it, without a treaty, as happened with Bulgaria,

    Now At WW2 that idea of Krusevo Vlachs, seems a good tool to communists, and Dimitrov of 3rd international with Tito signed the Blent treaty,
    claiming lands of Greece, and providing ancient Makedonians as Slavs, non Greeks etc,
    that had already started at a communist congress at Belgrade,

    the endoctrination for 2 generation make the problem existance,
    the Communism international in order to unify the 2 S Slavic countries of Bulgaria and Serbia and provide peace,
    hailed the idea, and make the bad guy the 'Capitalistic' Greece who resist the 5 years civil war among 'capitalists and communists'

    so today everybody in Skopjie believes he is true Makedonian with ancient roots from Alexander himshelf,
    and everybody in Thessaloniki hates the comittages that forced him to be a communist or Slav,

    the denial of exchange population among Serbia and Greece make the problem bigger.
    Instead the Politi-Kalfov treaty, and Venizelos-Attaturk solve the problem,

    BTW,
    As I notice, you consider your shelf a pre-Slavic Makedonian,
    So the question to you I guess now its this,
    a) you believe you were a Makedonian who got Slavizized?
    b) you believe you were a Makedonian who got Hellenized and then Slavizised?
    c) you believe you were a Thracian or Illyrian or a Brygian who got Makedonised and then Slavizised?
    d)you believe you were A Thracian or Illyrian or Brygian who got Makedonised who got Hellenized, who got Romanised, and finally Slavisized?

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    I am not willing replying to everything you wrote because some of it is a pure propaganda and non important things which have nothing to do with what i wrote previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    the existance of that state that is called offcially Fyrom or today Severnja Makedonia was never a problem for Makedonians (Greeks),
    as long this state has no attacking policy, it was just a state or province of Serbia
    Well, this is your problem first of all, not ours...

    Our country became a threat to you once it declared independence, but as long as it has been under Serb jurisdiction, than it was alright to you...

    But NOT to us!

    We don't want to be under Serb jurisdiction, nor we would want to be Serbs because we never were...

    We never called our land Vardarska or other dumb Serbian names after they occupied our land but ONLY Macedonia!
    And I had demonstrated this with the account of Kanchov!

    So, it has nothing to do with the local Vlachs as well, because those of local Macedonian Slavic dialect or Bulgarian mother tongue as you call it, also call themselves Macedonians, and this was before any Krusevo uprisings!

    And unlike you, the Serbs were unable to assimilate the people, so NOW you got a problem, as there were Macedonians on the other side of the border as well...

    Now At WW2 that idea of Krusevo Vlachs, seems a good tool to communists, and Dimitrov of 3rd international with Tito signed the Blent treaty,
    claiming lands of Greece, and providing ancient Makedonians as Slavs, non Greeks etc,
    that had already started at a communist congress at Belgrade,

    the endoctrination for 2 generation make the problem existance,
    the Communism international in order to unify the 2 S Slavic countries of Bulgaria and Serbia and provide peace,
    hailed the idea, and make the bad guy the 'Capitalistic' Greece who resist the 5 years civil war among 'capitalists and communists'

    so today everybody in Skopjie believes he is true Makedonian with ancient roots from Alexander himshelf,
    and everybody in Thessaloniki hates the comittages that forced him to be a communist or Slav,

    the denial of exchange population among Serbia and Greece make the problem bigger.
    Instead the Politi-Kalfov treaty, and Venizelos-Attaturk solve the problem,

    BTW,
    As I notice, you consider your shelf a pre-Slavic Makedonian,
    So the question to you I guess now its this,
    a) you believe you were a Makedonian who got Slavizized?
    b) you believe you were a Makedonian who got Hellenized and then Slavizised?
    c) you believe you were a Thracian or Illyrian or a Brygian who got Makedonised and then Slavizised?
    d)you believe you were A Thracian or Illyrian or Brygian who got Makedonised who got Hellenized, who got Romanised, and finally Slavisized?
    The brainwashing done by the communists was not good, but the Macedonians never were really communists, they just accepted the offer of those who claimed that they will help them achieving their goals, to unite our lands into one country, a Macedonian country which sadly cost us a lot!

    You do ask a lot of questions tho...

    I consider myself Macedonian as mine ancestors did, a Macedonian who speaks the local Macedonian Slavic dialect...

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    @ Aspar,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Macedonia

    on the other hands, the last 20 years in Greece, the above attacking policy, made a wave to Greece simillar which wants to attack Skopjie,
    the 'ten minutes till Skopjie' as known is 'slag'

    Prespes treaty winner is Severnja, they gained for first time nativity, in areas, that that not even Romans consider Makedonia,
    that is why Greeks are against,
    soon we will see both strange situations. especially in industrial products, with name origin.

    Anyway,
    I keep your last,

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    I consider myself Macedonian as mine ancestors did, a Macedonian who speaks the local Macedonian Slavic dialect...


    it is a start, not good, but a start to both realize our modern identities,
    As for mine,
    Today I say, that possibly originated from Sesklo Neolithic, but the last 150 years as far as I found, I am connected with a mountain in the core of Makedonia, originated from a family which participated in many revolts and struggles in Makedonia, Epirus, even reached Austro-Hungaria.
    mentioned even by Kasomoulis the historian of Greek revolt,


    BTW
    to a propagandist I may repeat with propaganda,
    to someone who wants to discuss, I rather discuss,

    the above with Ilidan revolt, is written in the books of someone who was present there, and lived all sides, in the years of dispute,
    it is not mine, and as far as I know, it corresponds enough the 'weather' of the era.

    Yet my only connection is a grand grand .. mother from somewhere there, West of Monasterion, an Aromanian at around 1850,
    You know the marriage/contracts, of gain passage, security, and low taxation, among Armatolikia.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    @ Aspar,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Macedonia

    on the other hands, the last 20 years in Greece, the above attacking policy, made a wave to Greece simillar which wants to attack Skopjie,
    the 'ten minutes till Skopjie' as known is 'slag'

    Prespes treaty winner is Severnja, they gained for first time nativity, in areas, that that not even Romans consider Makedonia,
    that is why Greeks are against,
    soon we will see both strange situations. especially in industrial products, with name origin.

    Anyway,
    I keep your last,


    This is Roman Macedonia 400 AD and by the looks of the map, more than a half of today's North Macedonia belongs to it, mostly in Macedonia Salutaris but small parts of the south-east of the country Doiran-Gevgeli and Heraclea(Bitola/Monastir) in Macedonia I Prima!

    You also have to keep in mind that the promoter of separate Macedonian
    consciousness Krste Misirkov and Goce Delcev who was the promoter of the idea of autonomous Macedonia and "Macedonia for the Macedonians" actually come from the part of Macedonia that is in Greece today, formerly Salonika vilayet, as many other Macedonians who left and today live scattered in different places.

    We call them "Egejci" and I am part "Egeec" as well and as I said, they were the main promoters of the idea of Macedonianizm so saying things like "they gained for first time nativity, in areas, that that not even Romans consider Makedonia" doesn't make much sense considering than the most hard core Macedonians actually come from the part which now belongs to Greece!

    it is a start, not good, but a start to both realize our modern identities,
    As for mine,
    Today I say, that possibly originated from Sesklo Neolithic, but the last 150 years as far as I found, I am connected with a mountain in the core of Makedonia, originated from a family which participated in many revolts and struggles in Makedonia, Epirus, even reached Austro-Hungaria.
    mentioned even by Kasomoulis the historian of Greek revolt,


    BTW
    to a propagandist I may repeat with propaganda,
    to someone who wants to discuss, I rather discuss,

    the above with Ilidan revolt, is written in the books of someone who was present there, and lived all sides, in the years of dispute,
    it is not mine, and as far as I know, it corresponds enough the 'weather' of the era.

    Yet my only connection is a grand grand .. mother from somewhere there, West of Monasterion, an Aromanian at around 1850,
    You know the marriage/contracts, of gain passage, security, and low taxation, among Armatolikia.


    That's alright...

    My own ancestors come from a very small region around Gevgeli, Doiran, Gumendza, Kukus and from the mountains near Gumendza and Gevgeli which were known as Karadjova or Vlacho-Meglen!
    Also one great grandparent comes from a village that doesn't exist today but was located on the Greek - Turkish border but unfortunately I don't know much about the village!

    As far as I know, most of them considered themselves Macedonians, some were followers of the Bulgarian Exarchate, others of the Greek Patriachate!

    One great great grandparent was a komitadji and probably a follower of the Bulgarian idea as he received medals from the Bulgarian state but most of the others were not!

    I also have distant relatives in Greece with who we lost contact since long time ago and who most probably consider themselves Greeks today!

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    Any sources for the bolded part?

    Because from what I have read from ancient writers, the ancient Macedonians were described as descendants of Brygians, Bryges(Thracians) as per Herodotus...
    Do some more reading and research. Illyrians, Epirots, Makedonians, Aetolians, Akarnanians, Paoenians, Brygians, Maedi, and other nearby Thracians had almost identical material culture we clearly see in them distinct warlike tribes of mostly mountaineers/shepherds. The more you went South, the shorter, darker, and softer the people got as with the case of the civilized Hellenes. It's enough to see the faces of Alexander's companions to understand what I'm talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    When my Slavic ancestors came, they found my Macedonian or Paeonian ancestors and I don't understand the need to underline my own Slavic ancestors...

    As I said earlier, such nebulous as saying my Slavic ancestors came and met your(Albanian, Vlach, Greek) ancestors is a pure idiocy...

    Mine own ancestors are from diverse group of people as pretending that all my ancestors come from one ancient or early medieval group of people is equal to lunacy, but I understand your position perfectly...
    I was actually being nice there, recognizing and differentiating between your several ancestors so instead of saying YOU SLAVS I specifically referred to your Slavic ancestors (i.e. not your Paleo-Balkan ones).

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    Now, for historical sake, the first mentioning of Albanians and Vlachs dates much later than the first mentioning of the Slavs in the Balkans...

    And they are mentioned in Arbanon(modern Albania) and Thessaly and Epirus(in the case of the Vlachs), so I am not sure what are you trying to apply here but if I guess correctly what it is, than you are trying to suggest who was the first one as it happens in the Balkans more often...

    Now, as is the case with the egg and the chicken, you are logic as you've been the First in Macedonia and We are invaders that came later is doomed because there is always someone else who lived there before, and we can go all the way down to the Neolithic farmers or Mesolithic HG but I understand your position again.
    Don't worry about the origin and mentioning of Albanians bro (half bro), we've got it easy nowadays and it's not like before where we had to fight in order to be recognized as local Balkan people and obviously not from Caucasus. Our ydna, mtdna, and autosomal Dna speaks for itself.

    But I understand where you're coming from, you're paranoid on encountering another Albanian that will tell you we were here first. That's far from what I was trying to say. I mean we all know Albanians were there first, its not for discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    You try to underline my own Slavics ancestors while no mentioning of my own Macedonian ancestors which by your logic, can only be ancestors of Vlachs, Albanians and Greeks.

    My Slavic ancestors taking the name means nothing for you but means a lot to us, because there is a clear continuation of the word Macedonia, because they lived and mixed with people already present in Macedonia, be it Romans, Greeks or simply Macedonians of Thracian, Illyrian affiliation, something that is nightmare for some people in the Balkans...
    Again, this is paranoia from your side. I purposely called you half bro because that's what I really feel. If you're from West Macedonia you might be even a '90% bro' to me.

    I clearly stated in my previous post that when speaking of the real ancient Makedonians of the time of Philip, you modern Northern Macedonians are mostly a Paeonian-Slav mix, but of course you also have some Makedonian, Dardanian, Thracian, Illyrian, Brygian, etc.

    And no, don't worry, ancient Makedonians were not Albanian, but they were still the closest nation to them, while later getting closer to lets say a Hellenic nearby tribe like the Thessalians after the heavy Hellenization of the local Makedonians, Orestians, Epirotes, Illyrians, Pierians, Thracians, etc. I practically mentioned all the tribes that mixed and contributed to what would be called Makedonians later on, mostly a bunch of shepherds brought down to the fields and trained in the phalanx formation and settled in the major towns which were slowly flourishing.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Do some more reading and research. Illyrians, Epirots, Makedonians, Aetolians, Akarnanians, Paoenians, Brygians, Maedi, and other nearby Thracians had almost identical material culture we clearly see in them distinct warlike tribes of mostly mountaineers/shepherds. The more you went South, the shorter, darker, and softer the people got as with the case of the civilized Hellenes. It's enough to see the faces of Alexander's companions to understand what I'm talking about.


    I was actually being nice there, recognizing and differentiating between your several ancestors so instead of saying YOU SLAVS I specifically referred to your Slavic ancestors (i.e. not your Paleo-Balkan ones).


    Don't worry about the origin and mentioning of Albanians bro (half bro), we've got it easy nowadays and it's not like before where we had to fight in order to be recognized as local Balkan people and obviously not from Caucasus. Our ydna, mtdna, and autosomal Dna speaks for itself.

    But I understand where you're coming from, you're paranoid on encountering another Albanian that will tell you we were here first. That's far from what I was trying to say. I mean we all know Albanians were there first, its not for discussion.



    Again, this is paranoia from your side. I purposely called you half bro because that's what I really feel. If you're from West Macedonia you might be even a '90% bro' to me.

    I clearly stated in my previous post that when speaking of the real ancient Makedonians of the time of Philip, you modern Northern Macedonians are mostly a Paeonian-Slav mix, but of course you also have some Makedonian, Dardanian, Thracian, Illyrian, Brygian, etc.

    And no, don't worry, ancient Makedonians were not Albanian, but they were still the closest nation to them, while later getting closer to lets say a Hellenic nearby tribe like the Thessalians after the heavy Hellenization of the local Makedonians, Orestians, Epirotes, Illyrians, Pierians, Thracians, etc. I practically mentioned all the tribes that mixed and contributed to what would be called Makedonians later on, mostly a bunch of shepherds brought down to the fields and trained in the phalanx formation and settled in the major towns which were slowly flourishing.
    I have no problem calling an Albanian bro trust me and I mean it...

    I have met many Albanians and most of them are very loyal and trustworthy and can easily make a business with them without having fear of being screwed...

    And I was merely discussing, didn't mean nothing wrong, so don't take it personally as we all have different writing styles and sometimes it may looks like I am a bit aggressive but in person you will find me very friendly trust me so I mean nothing wrong...

    The thing is, there is no way in the Balkan that we can find that we have more things that connect us but we always look for the things that separate us.

    And this might sound naive because a Greek would never say what you and me said now nor he will call me a bro, so in that respect I identify with the Albanians much more than I do with Greeks because that good and naive nature, loyal and trustworthy heart I see in the Albanians more often which I see in me!

    A Greek never!

    Not to mention that many Kosovar Albanians and proper Albanians in UK where I am living, came asking me thinking I am an Albanian, plus from many classification threads people tend to think I am an Albanian as well, and I am not even from the Western part of the country!

    So there is clearly great overlap between Macedonians and Albanians...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos
    Yauna Takabara
    It is important to know where was Macedonia, as you read here: https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=macedonia the name of Macedonia is from ancient Greek makros "long, large": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B...#Ancient_Greek from Proto-Indo-European *mh₂ḱros, cognate with Indo-Iranian masru "Egypt" (Egyptian Arabic masr, Mycenaean Greek misarajo).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    It is important to know where was Macedonia, as you read here: https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=macedonia the name of Macedonia is from ancient Greek makros "long, large": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B...#Ancient_Greek from Proto-Indo-European *mh₂ḱros, cognate with Indo-Iranian masru "Egypt" (Egyptian Arabic masr, Mycenaean Greek misarajo).
    There is no consensus among the historians what does the name Makedon mean although many tend to connect everything to Greek...
    Makedon may very well come and be distorted version of the word Mygdon, a tribe of the Bryges which lived in Makedonia and has nothing to with the Greeks.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Makedon actually meant Highlander in Ancient Greek. Equivalent to the Albanian term ‘Malesor’.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    There is no consensus among the historians what does the name Makedon mean although many tend to connect everything to Greek...
    Makedon may very well come and be distorted version of the word Mygdon, a tribe of the Bryges which lived in Makedonia and has nothing to with the Greeks.
    If i am not wrong according to Homer Macedonian means tall or something like this.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    There is no consensus among the historians what does the name Makedon mean although many tend to connect everything to Greek...
    Makedon may very well come and be distorted version of the word Mygdon, a tribe of the Bryges which lived in Makedonia and has nothing to with the Greeks.
    In ancient Persian and early Islamic sources, Macedonia (Maqaduniya) is just the name of Egypt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maqaduniya (Paul Casanova connects Maqaduniya to one of the Ancient Egyptian names of Memphis – Makha-to-ui, "the balance of two lands".) Anyway as I said Persian sources say that Alexander was Egyptian, not even Macedonian.

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