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Thread: Macedonians

  1. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    It is important to know where was Macedonia, as you read here: https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=macedonia the name of Macedonia is from ancient Greek makros "long, large": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B...#Ancient_Greek from Proto-Indo-European *mh₂ḱros, cognate with Indo-Iranian masru "Egypt" (Egyptian Arabic masr, Mycenaean Greek misarajo).
    there can be 2 official well stated terminations,
    and a third possible via LPIE

    Α) tall nation, big body
    the primary tested one and certified means Tall,-big people
    that is also the explanation of Magnetas the brother of Makedonas
    Magnetas live south of Makedonas in East parts of Thessaly,
    compare Greek Megas-megalos means both Great-Big
    the edos-ednos -edonoi etc means cousins-nation etc, in attic and koine typical of Makedonian d-θ is ethnos εθνος
    so the possibility Mak-edon =tall nation

    B) long relatives, split clan
    the terminology of -ednos can also mean long cousin or split cousin from hive
    in that case all three Makednos Magnetas Mygdon means split-clan
    infact myg-don is the remnants of Brygians,
    Brygians older known homeland was today Dyrrachium,
    by the coming of illyrians-proprie, Brygian moved east and, south north of primary Makedonia, south of Paeonians, but from their cities, we see their cities and them living among other clans, like nextby village - but other people
    Then moved to Phrygia, the ones who left were called Mygdonεs, Μυγδονες
    Μυγ from Αμυς-αμυχη means split from scratch,

    C) the Armenian Hypothesis in Thracian (not certified)
    that is not attested, but it is possible,
    notice the Scotish clans have a Mc a Mac before their clan names,
    in Thracian vocabulary Muca ment the male youth, 'the sons' (see Duridanov)
    the word exist also in Armenian,
    so it is possible that Myssians, Myceneans, Makedonians, Mygdonians etc and other in Balkans and Asia minor mean (the sons of)
    it is a possible, but can not explain the secondary synthetic, as also
    I heard the above as alternative theory, but rejected from the same who proposed it.
    cause it should have a Mus if was Armeno-Tracian, and not -k or -g
    Last edited by Yetos; 23-06-19 at 20:54.
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    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Culturally ancient Macedonians were certainly a Hellenic people, an ancient Macedonian temple has been found in Masjid Soleyman in the southwest of Iran:




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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Makedon actually meant Highlander in Ancient Greek. Equivalent to the Albanian term ‘Malesor’.
    There is complete truth in your post.

    Not sure why someone thumbed it down.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post

    I clearly stated in my previous post that when speaking of the real ancient Makedonians of the time of Philip, you modern Northern Macedonians are mostly a Paeonian-Slav mix, but of course you also have some Makedonian, Dardanian, Thracian, Illyrian, Brygian, etc.
    There was no slavs there at the time of Philip

    northern macedonians would be a Paeonian-Macedon mix
    Fathers mtdna T2b17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post

    So there is clearly great overlap between Macedonians and Albanians...
    Maybe this overlap started here

    Macedonian–Carthaginian Treaty was an anti-Roman treaty between Philip V of Macedon and Hannibal, leader of the Carthaginians, which was drawn up after the Battle of Cannae when Hannibal seemed poised to conquer Rome. Philip V, who feared Roman expansion, wanted to ride on the coat tails of the victor in the Second Punic War (218–201 BC). The discovery of this treaty inevitably led to the outbreak of the First Macedonian War (214–205 BC) between Rome and its Greek allies against Macedonia

    Rome had to stop macedonian supplies reaching Hannibal in Itlay from Macedonia's Albanian ports .................see map in link below


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Macedonian_War

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    There was no slavs there at the time of Philip

    northern macedonians would be a Paeonian-Macedon mix
    Really? Mind blown. :O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Really? Mind blown. :O

    Why Peonian-Macedon mix? Macedonian territory was like next to Nish (nowdays Serbia),anyways Peonians were Thraco-Illyrian,they were apsorbed in Macedonian Kingdom like many other illyrians and thracians, there were not pure nations, Macedonians had many thraco-macedonians, illyro-macedonians, thraco-illyrians, greco-macedonians, same with Greeks they were mix of many like Assyrians,Jews,Egyptians,Persians,Thracians,Macedo nians,Illyrians with Greeks...
    And many of barbarians (thracians,illyrians,macedonians) accepted Hellenism because in that time was like Religion , with already famous gods,laws and language with perspective, coine language in that time(greek nowdays) famous like english nowdays, wind in the back for barbarian traders...So like nowdays Orthodox Christianity , they r not same nation but workship same god and customs have same traditions...

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by RagnarofMacedon View Post
    Why Peonian-Macedon mix? Macedonian territory was like next to Nish (nowdays Serbia),anyways Peonians were Thraco-Illyrian,they were apsorbed in Macedonian Kingdom like many other illyrians and thracians, there were not pure nations, Macedonians had many thraco-macedonians, illyro-macedonians, thraco-illyrians, greco-macedonians, same with Greeks they were mix of many like Assyrians,Jews,Egyptians,Persians,Thracians,Macedo nians,Illyrians with Greeks...
    And many of barbarians (thracians,illyrians,macedonians) accepted Hellenism because in that time was like Religion , with already famous gods,laws and language with perspective, coine language in that time(greek nowdays) famous like english nowdays, wind in the back for barbarian traders...So like nowdays Orthodox Christianity , they r not same nation but workship same god and customs have same traditions...
    When talking about Ancient Macedonia, we talk about the land inhabited by the original tribe which inhabited a small piece of land in Northern Greece near the Aegean. We are not talking about their conquests and/or expansions. In reality, North Macedonia was almost in its entirety not inhabited by Ancient Macedonians, nor was it part of the original Macedonia. It was mostly Paeonian and Dardanian inhabited land. There were also Epirot Greeks in what is now Pelagonia (North Macedonia and Greek Macedonia). But you can rest assured, because Alexanders mother hailed from that tribe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RagnarofMacedon View Post
    Why Peonian-Macedon mix? Macedonian territory was like next to Nish (nowdays Serbia),anyways Peonians were Thraco-Illyrian,they were apsorbed in Macedonian Kingdom like many other illyrians and thracians, there were not pure nations, Macedonians had many thraco-macedonians, illyro-macedonians, thraco-illyrians, greco-macedonians, same with Greeks they were mix of many like Assyrians,Jews,Egyptians,Persians,Thracians,Macedo nians,Illyrians with Greeks...
    And many of barbarians (thracians,illyrians,macedonians) accepted Hellenism because in that time was like Religion , with already famous gods,laws and language with perspective, coine language in that time(greek nowdays) famous like english nowdays, wind in the back for barbarian traders...So like nowdays Orthodox Christianity , they r not same nation but workship same god and customs have same traditions...
    Paeonians are a mix of macedonians and dardanians there is no thracian or illyrian on there mix

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dianatomia View Post
    When talking about Ancient Macedonia, we talk about the land inhabited by the original tribe which inhabited a small piece of land in Northern Greece near the Aegean. We are not talking about their conquests and/or expansions. In reality, North Macedonia was almost in its entirety not inhabited by Ancient Macedonians, nor was it part of the original Macedonia. It was mostly Paeonian and Dardanian inhabited land. There were also Epirot Greeks in what is now Pelagonia (North Macedonia and Greek Macedonia). But you can rest assured, because Alexanders mother hailed from that tribe.
    That's what people don't understand. Ancient Macedonia was a very small area/kingdom/tribe who then expanded tremendously through conquest, alliances and marriages of convenience. It was surrounded by other much larger Illyrian and Thracian tribes. Current province of Greece, Macedonia is too big for what the land of Macedons originally included. So is Northern Macedonia. Only very small number of people around what is now Pella can call themselves descendants of Macedonians. The rest, Greek Macedonia and North Macedonia are just appropriating the name.
    Last edited by bigsnake49; 22-11-19 at 18:24.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    That's what people don't understand. Ancient Macedonia was a very small area/kingdom/tribe who then expanded tremendously through conquest, alliances and marriages of convenience. It was surrounded by other much larger Illyrian and Thracian tribes. Current province of Greece, Macedonia is too big for what the land of Macedons originally included. So is Northern Macedonia. Only very small number of people around what is now Pella can call themselves descendants of Macedonians. The rest, Greek Macedonia and North Macedonia are just appropriating the name.
    Yeah, many fanatics don't understand, however the term Macedonia was first applied in the 19th century by the Greek priests and clerics after the abolishment of the Ohrid archbishopric in order to attract and hellenize the Bulgarian population in Macedonia(the historical one of course). Prior to that of course every Slavic speaking men in Macedonia was calling his language Bulgarian and his people Bulgarians.
    Let's not forget how Germanos Karavangelis attracted Kote or Kottas to the Greek cause. Basically telling him how the Slavic speaking people in Macedonia aren't Bulgarians but Bulgarised Macedonians, descendants of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians.
    Basically in those times there were no borders like today and people living in Macedonia and beyond, in what is today Northern Macedonia were basically the same people, speaking the same language and intermarrying.
    After the Greeks achieved the goal and got Macedonia from the Ottomans, there was no more need to spread propaganda in order to attract local Bulgarians.
    However, the idea itself spread across the border and the rest is a history. So the Greeks have no one to blame but themselves when the people across the border appropriate the Ancient Macedonians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    Yeah, many fanatics don't understand, however the term Macedonia was first applied in the 19th century by the Greek priests and clerics after the abolishment of the Ohrid archbishopric in order to attract and hellenize the Bulgarian population in Macedonia(the historical one of course). Prior to that of course every Slavic speaking men in Macedonia was calling his language Bulgarian and his people Bulgarians.
    Let's not forget how Germanos Karavangelis attracted Kote or Kottas to the Greek cause. Basically telling him how the Slavic speaking people in Macedonia aren't Bulgarians but Bulgarised Macedonians, descendants of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians.
    Basically in those times there were no borders like today and people living in Macedonia and beyond, in what is today Northern Macedonia were basically the same people, speaking the same language and intermarrying.
    After the Greeks achieved the goal and got Macedonia from the Ottomans, there was no more need to spread propaganda in order to attract local Bulgarians.
    However, the idea itself spread across the border and the rest is a history. So the Greeks have no one to blame but themselves when the people across the border appropriate the Ancient Macedonians.
    Greeks used and emphasized the term Macedonia to safeguard their Hellenic influence in the region. The Bulgarization of the area was the only serious threat from Greece's perspective at the time. In fact, I would argue that there was no other serious threat ever since. The Bulgarians had a solid narrative. There were Slavic speakers in the region, and the medieval Bulgarian empires were a fact in history. The Greeks would counter this narrative with emphasis of Byzantine and Ancient Greek history of the region. And hence the term Macedonian Slavs was born, with the help of the Greeks among others.

    The Yugoslavs brought this to another level a few decades later, arguing that Macedonian Slavs are not Bulgarians indeed, but they also have nothing to do with the Ancient Greeks. Because they are a totally unrelated people. This went against Athens bidding ofcourse. But compared to the Bulgarian threat, it was not a major setback. The historical claims and the connection of the Ancient Macedonians to the Macedonian Slavs were quite un-academic. And no one took these claims seriously. So Greece looked the other way. It was more of a nuisance rather than anything else. One could argue that it did the Macedonian Slavs more harm than it did the Greeks. Given the above, the Prespa agreement will do more good than harm for both nations.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    That's what people don't understand. Ancient Macedonia was a very small area/kingdom/tribe who then expanded tremendously through conquest, alliances and marriages of convenience. It was surrounded by other much larger Illyrian and Thracian tribes. Current province of Greece, Macedonia is too big for what the land of Macedons originally included. So is Northern Macedonia. Only very small number of people around what is now Pella can call themselves descendants of Macedonians. The rest, Greek Macedonia and North Macedonia are just appropriating the name.
    Well, it became Macedonia in due time. I wouldn't say anyone is appropriating the name. Especially the Greek region became Macedonia as early as under the reign of Philip. But the name stuck in the greater region for centuries after that and it changed its geographic connotation many times. This has been a natural process. We simply have to understand that Macedonia became a name which was exclusively geographic and not ethnic. The problem occurs when people within this region, at any given time, start to think that this region belongs to their ethnic cultural heritage. This is quite dubious and a-historical.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    You are all forgetting that the North was only Macedonia when the Romans had the area...it was a large geographic area that the Romans called Macedonia...it had nothing to do with the Real Macedonia in northern Greece. "North Macedonia" is literally the geographic area of Roman North Macedonia....again nothing to do with the real Macedonia.

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