Macedonians

Tracians were probably the first IE people settling in Balkans. It would be interesting to know what was their R1 Y-dna branch.
y6d95chtt77z.jpg

How ? Source? They suppose to be later then Hellenic
 
Tracians were probably the first IE people settling in Balkans. It would be interesting to know what was their R1 Y-dna branch.

We already do. At least one so far was found in Bronze Age Bulgaria that was R1a-Z93.
 
View attachment 10995

How ? Source? They suppose to be later then Hellenic

It's from the Greek writings. They said that they found around here the Tracians. Even most modern scholars agree with this. Tracians were supposed to live in most of Balkans even before the spread of Illyrians from the north.
 
We already do. At least one so far was found in Bronze Age Bulgaria that was R1a-Z93.
Thank you for this info. Do you have any idea what century might it have been? Iron age is a long period. It might have been a Persian invader.


So it is connected with the Indo Iranian Y-dna. So far we know that they were Ev13+Z93. That's a good help.
 
I laid down academic sources and non for the link that exist between Mycenaean (verified Linear B Greek language1450 BC) culture and Seima Turbino Culture as follows:
1.book The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World.
By David W. Anthony, 2007 page 447

2. Eupedia page on R1a Greek Branch
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

2. Eupedia page on R1a Greek Branch
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

4. Ancient Metallurgy in the USSR: The Early Metal Age By Evgenil Nikolaevich Chernykh page 203

I invite the members of this forum to go through this information and draw their own conclusions.
If the above is true than Kurgan people in Macedonia in 1500 BC have nothing to do with Proto Greeks and Mycenaeans. Their Hellenization happened afterwards.
I will show Accademia research of Illyrian Kurgan relation in a second step and at a proper thread.




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Blevins
when I post a link of a video of a dialexis about Myceneans
YOU WERE PROUD AND TELL US ABOUT YOUR MYCENEAN ANCESTRY.

Now it is time to Find The GREEKS by your Theory,
wanted or Not the bellow is according what you provide

Watch after min 41:00


The answer to your theories and opinions, after min 41:00

Offcourse I keep my precautions,
since all this steppe and Yamnaa is problematic, for me,
BUT if you agree with it, and you are, this is your answer,
Which when I posted, you were laughing, and Cheer ''I am Mycenean'
Now the answer to you, given before 2 years, according your Theories.
If you notice it, you would not bother us, (Forum) and your shelf.


BTW
DO YOU STILL CLAIM THAT YOU ARE A MYCENAN ORIGIN?

book When and Whence the Greeks, Giannopoulos

Giannopoulos_EN.jpg


anyway I still am precautious about steppe,
and you can not convince me,
although today seems more possible,
but the book is according all the above you wrote.


If you can not understand it, your problem.
SO STOP POSTING ABOUT MYCENEANS IN A THREAD ABOUT MAKEDONIANS.
MAKEDONIANS CLAIM DORIAN DESCENT, NOT MYCENEAN

AND MAKE THREAD ABOUT YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE HISTORICAL QUESTIONS AND GENNETICS.
OR HOW MUCH MYCENEAN ARE YOU, AS CLAIMED IN PAST.

before Lazarides papper, you were making irony with me, about your R1b, claiming Mycenean relativity, and Myceneans were R1b, what now? they were Steppe with average 14% steppe ancestry?
and ask me if i believe that you a descendant or an ancestror of them, remeber?
Now what? what scratches you about Myceneans?, and you post in a thread about Makedonians?
about tumuli in lands of proto-Greeks, which are Illyrian according your Opinion, :unsure: (Illyrian!!!, so tumuli enter Greece from the lands of Celts!!!!!! :sad-2:, West to East!!! against IE expansion East to West!!! )

:useless: :useless: :useless:

you know the moto,
the one who scratches his back at tsompani's batton, is looking to be beaten, not scratched.


FINALLY
BLEVINS13
do these bellow ,
1.book The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World.
By David W. Anthony, 2007 page 447

2. Eupedia page on R1a Greek Branch
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

4. Ancient Metallurgy in the USSR: The Early Metal Age By Evgenil Nikolaevich Chernykh page 203

which you proudly claim, SAY That Tumuli is mark of Illyrians?:unsure::unsure: NO
I guess not, so your effort, was either to disinform us, or you wanted to scratch your back at the batton.
And when someone realize you, instead of cover, you attack with just whatever,
your primary purpose was to 'show-blind' us that Makedonians were Illyrians, since they found some tumuli,
and at the end you mix seima-turbino (were they Illyrians too?) mettalurgy, Steppe Myceneans Illyrians etc,,
 
Last edited:
All of you,
understand these simple things

1) makedonians never claim mycenean ancestry, but dorian,
2) proto-greek appears with proto-brygian much earlier and north of mycenean world,


 
All of you,
understand these simple things

1) makedonians never claim mycenean ancestry, but dorian,
2) proto-greek appears with proto-brygian much earlier and north of mycenean world,



They all claimed descent from Hetacleidaes. This was their myth. According to ancient Greek myth, Dorians were illegitimate sons of Mycenaeans. They just came back and restored or claimed back their heritage. Anyway, this was just a myth. All this myth explains the invasion of Illyrians from the north at the end of the bronze age. They moved into southern Balkans by destroying the Mycenaean hegemony. At the same time they went through into Anatolia and settled in former Hittite areas.
 
They all claimed descent from Hetacleidaes. This was their myth. According to ancient Greek myth, Dorians were illegitimate sons of Mycenaeans. They just came back and restored or claimed back their heritage. Anyway, this was just a myth. All this myth explains the invasion of Illyrians from the north at the end of the bronze age. They moved into southern Balkans by destroying the Mycenaean hegemony. At the same time they went through into Anatolia and settled in former Hittite areas.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

what?
Illyrians are the sea peoples ?
:amazed:
amazing

 
:confused: :confused: :confused:

what?
Now Illyrians are the sea people?
:petrified: :petrified: :petrified: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


:depressed: :depressed: :depressed:

Yes, why not?! Not all of them, just some of them. It is not me the first to think such theory. R1b-Z2103 haplogroup is perfect in this scenario. It probably entered Anatolia at the time of sea people (Mushki people). Anyway, don't mess up the bronze age Illyrians with classical Illyrians whom all of us know. Classical Illyrians maybe descended from northern Illyrians, while Armenians and Phrygians descended from southern Illyrians.
Albanian, Phrygian, and Armenian are all satem languages, but were satemized in iron age or especially at the end of the bronze age. It may have happened via Tracian influence in Balkans.

Definitely, Macedons were Hellenised Illyrians, especially their royalty. Don't underestimate the influence of the Hellenistic culture and politics over the tribes living near Mediterranean basin.
 
Thank you for this info. Do you have any idea what century might it have been? Iron age is a long period. It might have been a Persian invader.


So it is connected with the Indo Iranian Y-dna. So far we know that they were Ev13+Z93. That's a good help.

I don't think they share the same SNPs. If I am not mistaken it was 400-600BC the sample. They came out Swedish like autosomally in some calculators.
 
Blevins
when I post a link of a video of a dialexis about Myceneans
YOU WERE PROUD AND TELL US ABOUT YOUR MYCENEAN ANCESTRY.

Now it is time to Find The GREEKS by your Theory,
wanted or Not the bellow is according what you provide

Watch after min 41:00


The answer to your theories and opinions, after min 41:00

Offcourse I keep my precautions,
since all this steppe and Yamnaa is problematic, for me,
BUT if you agree with it, and you are, this is your answer,
Which when I posted, you were laughing, and Cheer ''I am Mycenean'
Now the answer to you, given before 2 years, according your Theories.
If you notice it, you would not bother us, (Forum) and your shelf.


BTW
DO YOU STILL CLAIM THAT YOU ARE A MYCENAN ORIGIN?

book When and Whence the Greeks, Giannopoulos

Giannopoulos_EN.jpg


anyway I still am precautious about steppe,
and you can not convince me,
although today seems more possible,
but the book is according all the above you wrote.


If you can not understand it, your problem.
SO STOP POSTING ABOUT MYCENEANS IN A THREAD ABOUT MAKEDONIANS.
MAKEDONIANS CLAIM DORIAN DESCENT, NOT MYCENEAN

AND MAKE THREAD ABOUT YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE HISTORICAL QUESTIONS AND GENNETICS.
OR HOW MUCH MYCENEAN ARE YOU, AS CLAIMED IN PAST.

before Lazarides papper, you were making irony with me, about your R1b, claiming Mycenean relativity, and Myceneans were R1b, what now? they were Steppe with average 14% steppe ancestry?
and ask me if i believe that you a descendant or an ancestror of them, remeber?
Now what? what scratches you about Myceneans?, and you post in a thread about Makedonians?
about tumuli in lands of proto-Greeks, which are Illyrian according your Opinion, :unsure: (Illyrian!!!, so tumuli enter Greece from the lands of Celts!!!!!! :sad-2:, West to East!!! against IE expansion East to West!!! )

:useless: :useless: :useless:

you know the moto,
the one who scratches his back at tsompani's batton, is looking to be beaten, not scratched.


FINALLY
BLEVINS13
do these bellow ,
1.book The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World.
By David W. Anthony, 2007 page 447

2. Eupedia page on R1a Greek Branch
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

4. Ancient Metallurgy in the USSR: The Early Metal Age By Evgenil Nikolaevich Chernykh page 203

which you proudly claim, SAY That Tumuli is mark of Illyrians?:unsure::unsure: NO
I guess not, so your effort, was either to disinform us, or you wanted to scratch your back at the batton.
And when someone realize you, instead of cover, you attack with just whatever,
your primary purpose was to 'show-blind' us that Makedonians were Illyrians, since they found some tumuli,
and at the end you mix seima-turbino (were they Illyrians too?) mettalurgy, Steppe Myceneans Illyrians etc,,

Again I repeat, I have no opinion on my own for the proto- greek and Mycenaeans.
I presented some research on Mycenaeans and their relation to Seima-Turbino culture.
On the other side I presented some other research that Kurgan people lived in Macedonia based on tumulus burial around 1500 BC. Seima -Turbino and Kurgan are two separate cultures. Mycenaean were proven Greek speakers 1450 BC. But they were not in Macedonia at that time. Mycenaeanization of Macedonia happen afterwards. Around 1500 BC Kurgan people lived in Macedonia based on research that I presented.
If you want to oppose the findings of these research that I presented, you are free to post other academic research but not Greek since they can’t be objective in this argument and I don’t understand anything of what they are talking about. So post Academic papers supporting the opposite that Mycenaean are Kurgan people coming from Macedonia and or Epirus.
We can’t convince each other but good academic research can convince us.

I will elaborate Illyrian Kurgan relationship not here and not now.

Off topic: show me when I have claimed this Mycenaean ancestry, I do not recall that two years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
Yes, why not?! Not all of them, just some of them. It is not me the first to think such theory. R1b-Z2103 haplogroup is perfect in this scenario. It probably entered Anatolia at the time of sea people (Mushki people). Anyway, don't mess up the bronze age Illyrians with classical Illyrians whom all of us know. Classical Illyrians maybe descended from northern Illyrians, while Armenians and Phrygians descended from southern Illyrians.
Albanian, Phrygian, and Armenian are all satem languages, but were satemized in iron age or especially at the end of the bronze age. It may have happened via Tracian influence in Balkans.

Definitely, Macedons were Hellenised Illyrians, especially their royalty. Don't underestimate the influence of the Hellenistic culture and politics over the tribes living near Mediterranean basin.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

Ha?
so Makedonians were influenced by the later of them Hellenistic culture, :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
and they did not create it?

:wary2: :wary2: :wary2:
 
Again I repeat, I have no opinion on my own for the proto- greek and Mycenaeans.
I presented some research on Mycenaeans and their relation to Seima-Turbino culture.
On the other side I presented some other research that Kurgan people lived in Macedonia based on tumulus burial around 1500 BC. Seima -Turbino and Kurgan are two separate cultures. Mycenaean were proven Greek speakers 1450 BC. But they were not in Macedonia at that time. Mycenaeanization of Macedonia happen afterwards. Around 1500 BC Kurgan people lived in Macedonia based on research that I presented.
If you want to oppose the findings of these research that I presented, you are free to post other academic research but not Greek since they can’t be objective in this argument and I don’t understand anything of what they are talking about. So post Academic papers supporting the opposite that Mycenaean are Kurgan people coming from Macedonia and or Epirus.
We can’t convince each other but good academic research can convince us.

I will elaborate Illyrian Kurgan relationship not here and not now.

Off topic: show me when I have claimed this Mycenaean ancestry, I do not recall that two years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

Mycenaeanization of Makedonia :petrified: :petrified: :petrified:

anyway, I suggest you a book,
read it to understand, and solve your questions.

and NO
you can not elaborate 'Illyrian' tumuli from West to East, but from East to West.

anyway when you make up your mind who were Illyrians, Makedonians, Myceneans, Thracians Yamnaa,
and what time was each, come back,
At least read the book of Giannopoulos, the Cetina's the Cotofeni, the Myceneans etc
It is in harmony with steppe theory,

Vucedol-Vatin etc is a point of entry, but also a point of exit,

suggest you to study this map
and realize that Myceneans are not the only Greeks neither the proto-Greeks

300px-Proto_Greek_Area_reconstruction.png
 
we have filled 34 pages with crap.
 
:confused: :confused: :confused:

Ha?
so Makedonians were influenced by the later of them Hellenistic culture, :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
and they did not create it?

:wary2: :wary2: :wary2:

Yes. The Mycenaean civilization did crumble, but they did not disappeared. The cradle of Hellenistic civilization was Attic/Ionic , which was born from the ashes of the Mycenaean civilization. The official language during Philip II and Alexander the great was Attic/Ionic. Why you think was that? It was because it had a higher status. Athenians always claimed a true Ionic origin for themselves without any Dorian influence. They saw Dorians nearly as barbarians. Indeed Dorians were barbarians whom got civilized through time.
 
Mycenaeanization of Makedonia :petrified: :petrified: :petrified:

anyway, I suggest you a book,
read it to understand, and solve your questions.

and NO
you can not elaborate 'Illyrian' tumuli from West to East, but from East to West.

anyway when you make up your mind who were Illyrians, Makedonians, Myceneans, Thracians Yamnaa,
and what time was each, come back,
At least read the book of Giannopoulos, the Cetina's the Cotofeni, the Myceneans etc
It is in harmony with steppe theory,

Vucedol-Vatin etc is a point of entry, but also a point of exit,

suggest you to study this map
and realize that Myceneans are not the only Greeks neither the proto-Greeks

300px-Proto_Greek_Area_reconstruction.png

Your map even if it's true, is of third millennium. Macedonians, to whom we are talking about are an ethnic entity living during the iron age, 500bce. I don't see any connection
 
Your map even if it's true, is of third millennium. Macedonians, to whom we are talking about are an ethnic entity living during the iron age, 500bce. I don't see any connection
It`s an Wikipedia map based on a reconstruction of the 3rd millennium BC "Proto-Greek area", by Vladimir I. Georgiev.
Georgiev had many strange theories. Nobody take seriously his theories, only the greek "experts" of Wiki and of course the internet trollls.
 

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