Macedonians

[TaktikatEMalet]

OMG! Greeks have that attitude even in in English speaking world. They think being Greek carries extra social points. Only to find that for the Northern people Greeks are Wogs. ( I am not sure if i wrote it correct).I guess they call Albanians wogs as well, but Albanians keep a low profile in general so are mostly invisible ethnic groups, but Greeks are really offended by the epithet.

Well, most albanians aren't "wogs" and I'm sure there are plenty greeks too. Do they also call Italians, Spanish, Portuguese and Serbs wogs for being darker tone?

A lot of northern people look like wogs when they go on holiday btw. If you look at haplogroups, it tends to be only regions with significant amount of i1 that have a lot of blondes and there aren't many of these regions left

[Jovialis]

The saying goes, "The wogs begin at Calais". Also stop using that word, guys, because it is inappropriate for the forum.


Funny anecdote, I was in an Irish bar, one New Year's eve with a friend, and we became acquainted with a British guy there. He had an accent, so he was from England. He asked about us, where we came from. I told him I was Italian, but later he referred to me as Albanian. I corrected him, and he sharply, yet jokingly replied, "Whatever, you all look the same" :)


Also, I know quite a few Albanians. My friend married an Albanian, and I went to their wedding. Some of them seemed pretty dark to me, they could easily pass for Sicilian. But like in all southern European groups, there is a lot of phenotypic-diversity. My friend's wife has blonde hair and blue eyes.

[Jovialis]

Well, most albanians aren't "wogs" and I'm sure there are plenty greeks too. Do they also call Italians, Spanish, Portuguese and Serbs wogs for being darker tone?
A lot of northern people look like wogs when they go on holiday btw. If you look at haplogroups, it tends to be only regions with significant amount of i1 that have a lot of blondes and there aren't many of these regions left

Haplogroups do not dictate phenotype. Autosomal DNA is responsible for this.

Albanian autosomal DNA is predominately Anatolian_N + CHG/IN. Steppe and WHG are minority components. The same can be said for many Italians.

[DuPidh]

This Wog thing I mentioned this is especially pronounced in Australia. Its no longer active in USA. But I brought the topic because I saw Australian Greeks protest about it. Who cares if someone calls you Wog, let alone protest. What you have to do is make the other work for you, through going to school, excelling in school, building a prosperous life for yourself, being socially fair and helpful

[torzio]

This Wog thing I mentioned this is especially pronounced in Australia. Its no longer active in USA. But I brought the topic because I saw Australian Greeks protest about it. Who cares if someone calls you Wog, let alone protest. What you have to do is make the other work for you, through going to school, excelling in school, building a prosperous life for yourself, being socially fair and helpful

The Wog thing from Australia was originally meant to be on for the early chinese in Australia...it means Western Oriental Gentleman

the other is Dago ............which was meant for Italians and spanish as it came from the spanish christian name Diego ............Diego is spanish for James ............James is associated with Jimmy .............a jimmy is slang in australia for a foreigner

[TaktikatEMalet]

Haplogroups do not dictate phenotype. Autosomal DNA is responsible for this.
Albanian autosomal DNA is predominately Anatolian_N + CHG/IN. Steppe and WHG are minority components. The same can be said for many Italians.

Haplogroups play big role in autosomal dna, not sure what your point is.

A country or even better a city/town is made up from all the different y dna that has remained there giving them the skin tone and features

My point is regions with a lot of i1 are usually more "white" or more blonde, most r1b-strong regions that lack i1 don't look more "white" than south europeans

[Jovialis]

You clearly do not know what you are talking about.

[DuPidh]

OMG! This person is out of control. Don't think has a passing grade in any school subject!

[TaktikatEMalet]

You clearly do not know what you are talking about.

Look at r1b some strong regions in Spain, Portugal or even France/Switzerland. Most people there look like South Europeans or darker toned

It is only regions with bigger amounts of i1 in Germany, Sweden, Norway and England that look more "pale" or more "blonde". This is common knowledge

[Jovialis]

Look at r1b some strong regions in Spain, Portugal or even France/Switzerland. Most people there look like South Europeans or darker toned
It is only regions with bigger amounts of i1 in Germany, Sweden, Norway and England that look more "pale" or more "blonde". This is common knowledge

Phenotype is determined by a combination of different alleles. People who seemingly have the same phenotype may actually have a different combination. Again, haplogroups do not determine your phenotype.

Hair color ranges across a wide spectrum of hues, from flaxen blond to coal black. Many genes other than MC1R play a role in determining shades of hair color by controlling levels of eumelanin and pheomelanin. Some of these genes, including ASIP, DTNBP1, GPR143, HPS3, KITLG, MLPH,MYO5A, MYO7A, OCA2, SLC45A2, SLC24A5, TYRP1, TYR, ERCC6, GNAS, HERC2, IRF4, OBSCN, SLC24A4, TPCN2, and MITF, are involved in the production of melanin in hair. Some of these genes are associated with gene transcription (which is the first step in protein production), DNA repair, the transport of substances (such as calcium) across cell membranes, or the structure of hair follicles. Several of these genes contribute to eye and skin color, but the exact role they play in determining hair color is unknown.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/und...uces%20melanin.

Eye color:

Although eye color is usually modeled as a simple, Mendelian trait, further research and observation has indicated that eye color does not follow the classical paths of inheritance. Eye color phenotypes demonstrate both epistasis and incomplete dominance. Although there are about 16 different genes responsible for eye color, it is mostly attributed to two adjacent genes on chromosome 15, hect domain and RCC1-like domain-containing protein 2 (HERC2) and ocular albinism (that is, oculocutaneous albinism II (OCA2)). An intron in HERC2 contains the promoter region for OCA2, affecting its expression. Therefore, single-nucleotide polymorphisms in either of these two genes have a large role in the eye color of an individual. Furthermore, with all genetic expression, aberration also occurs. Some individuals may express two phenotypes—one in each eye—or a complete lack of pigmentation, ocular albinism. In addition, the evolutionary and population roles of the different expressions are significant.

https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg2...0elementary%20 form,classified%20as%20a%20Mendelian%20trait.&text =On%20the%20basis%20of%20the,rare%20cases%2C%20vio let%20and%20red.

Skin color:

Human skin colour is highly heritable and externally visible with relevance in medical, forensic, and anthropological genetics. Although eye and hair colour can already be predicted with high accuracies from small sets of carefully selected DNA markers, knowledge about the genetic predictability of skin colour is limited. Here, we investigate the skin colour predictive value of 77 single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) from 37 genetic loci previously associated with human pigmentation using 2025 individuals from 31 global populations. We identified a minimal set of 36 highly informative skin colour predictive SNPs and developed a statistical prediction model capable of skin colour prediction on a global scale. Average cross-validated prediction accuracies expressed as area under the receiver-operating characteristic curve (AUC) ± standard deviation were 0.97 ± 0.02 for Light, 0.83 ± 0.11 for Dark, and 0.96 ± 0.03 for Dark-Black. When using a 5-category, this resulted in 0.74 ± 0.05 for Very Pale, 0.72 ± 0.03 for Pale, 0.73 ± 0.03 for Intermediate, 0.87±0.1 for Dark, and 0.97 ± 0.03 for Dark-Black. A comparative analysis in 194 independent samples from 17 populations demonstrated that our model outperformed a previously proposed 10-SNP-classifier approach with AUCs rising from 0.79 to 0.82 for White, comparable at the intermediate level of 0.63 and 0.62, respectively, and a large increase from 0.64 to 0.92 for Black. Overall, this study demonstrates that the chosen DNA markers and prediction model, particularly the 5-category level; allow skin colour predictions within and between continental regions for the first time, which will serve as a valuable resource for future applications in forensic and anthropologic genetics.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-017-1808-5

[kingjohn]

Look at r1b some strong regions in Spain, Portugal or even France/Switzerland. Most people there look like South Europeans or darker toned
It is only regions with bigger amounts of i1 in Germany, Sweden, Norway and England that look more "pale" or more "blonde". This is common knowledge

don't know
than why ireland whch is like 90% r1b
are very pale skin ( maybe not blond but they don't look south european )

[Yetos]

hm

and what mothers?

don't they inherit some phenotype genes to their descendans?

[Anfänger]

"Yeyy Haplogroups are everything and determine phenotype", these kind of people you should definitely avoid if you are interested in genetics.

[TaktikatEMalet]

don't know
than why ireland whch is like 90% r1b
are very pale skin ( maybe not blond but they don't look south european )

I don't think Ireland is 90% r1b and they are in a cold region which also helps them look pale at all times. I'm sure Ireland has some North/German ancestry too

We must also remember that not all r1b came from the same regions, subclades are important in determining phenotypes, some r1b groups had different mtdna to mix with

[TaktikatEMalet]

Phenotype is determined by a combination of different alleles. People who seemingly have the same phenotype may actually have a different combination. Again, haplogroups do not determine your phenotype.



Eye color:



Skin color:

Yes phenotypes can be different but they are bound to vary more across different y dna than they do with same y dna, I am not just talking about general y dna it would have to be same subclades

If you set up a region where all the males have the same y dna subclades eventually the people will look alike

[Jovialis]

Yes phenotypes can be different but they are bound to vary more across different y dna than they do with same y dna, I am not just talking about general y dna it would have to be same subclades
If you set up a region where all the males have the same y dna subclades eventually the people will look alike

There are no legitimate studies that support these claims that I know of.

[kingjohn]

I don't think Ireland is 90% r1b and they are in a cold region which also helps them look pale at all times. I'm sure Ireland has some North/German ancestry too
We must also remember that not all r1b came from the same regions, subclades are important in determining phenotypes, some r1b groups had different mtdna to mix with

Ok i was wrong but not by much ( not 90%)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b
Ireland is 82% r1b thats huge beyond words
It means every 8 people out of 10 you will pick randomly will be r1b ....
Dont know what is your point is ...
To say that i1 dominant areas will look more like dolph lundgren (nordic)than r1b dominant areas?

P.s
If an r1b person have the genes for blond hair
And blue eyes and they are dominant in his case
He might end up with those features
There is no connection to his y haplogroup
More to his total autosomal profile

[Yetos]

Yes phenotypes can be different but they are bound to vary more across different y dna than they do with same y dna, I am not just talking about general y dna it would have to be same subclades
If you set up a region where all the males have the same y dna subclades eventually the people will look alike

so according what you write, if a region has same Ydna all peoplelook alike?

even if the mothers are blonde? brown? red? black?

hmm, very advanced theory,

so genes of phenotype are only at 23 pair and only at Y,

so women who have no Y dna, WHAT? have no phenotype? and are all same or painted?

If you set up a region where all the males have the same y dna subclades eventually the people will look alike

So in a region n that has all males the same YDna, (although women from Africa, India, Balts, China, New Guinnea (Papoua) etc) subclades eventually the people will look alike.
Is that you want to say to us?

I suggest primary look at you family, where all males have same Y-DNA, then Neghbours family, etc etc.
cause that you say to us is not even at close family.

[TaktikatEMalet]

so according what you write, if a region has same Ydna all peoplelook alike?
even if the mothers are blonde? brown? red? black?
hmm, very advanced theory,
so genes of phenotype are only at 23 pair and only at Y,
so women who have no Y dna, WHAT? have no phenotype? and are all same or painted?

So in a region n that has all males the same YDna, (although women from Africa, India, Balts, China, New Guinnea (Papoua) etc) subclades eventually the people will look alike.
Is that you want to say to us?
I suggest primary look at you family, where all males have same Y-DNA, then Neghbours family, etc etc.
cause that you say to us is not even at close family.

You don't understand

The mothers can have an affect if they had a father with a much different y dna. If you have a region where everyone has the same y dna that must mean the women also had fathers with the same y dna or at least this will be the case over time (at least the males)

But if you have a region with everyone same y dna and you want women with all different father y dna then it would take a long time to achieve the same result but eventually all the men a few hundred years later will still look similar if the y dna remains constant

As for my family, using the same logic I applied above the y dna in my family will be the same BUT the women will have come from fathers with likely different y dna - the less of this the more chance we all look alike

[TaktikatEMalet]

Ok i was wrong but not by much ( not 90%)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b
Ireland is 82% r1b thats huge beyond words
It means every 8 people out of 10 you will pick randomly will be r1b ....
Dont know what is your point is ...
To say that i1 dominant areas will look more like dolph lundgren (nordic)than r1b dominant areas?
P.s
If an r1b person have the genes for blond hair
And blue eyes and they are dominant in his case
He might end up with those features
There is no connection to his y haplogroup
More to his total autosomal profile

I think Ireland was one of the regions who had some early North european i2a prior to r1b, in fact they still carry some now? This could mean the r1b killed off most of them and took their women therefore receiving some their genes - blue eyes etc - additionally there was English and viking influence in Ireland later on which brought some more "northern" characteristics - this wouldn't just be i1 but it would also be r1b people from Germany/England etc who had mixed with i1 daughters therefore receiving some of the genes

I am certain that not all 80% of Ireland belongs to the same subclade of r1b

[kingjohn]

I think Ireland was one of the regions who had some early North european i2a prior to r1b, in fact they still carry some now? This could mean the r1b killed off most of them and took their women therefore receiving some their genes - blue eyes etc - additionally there was English and viking influence in Ireland later on which brought some more "northern" characteristics - this wouldn't just be i1 but it would also be r1b people from Germany/England etc who had mixed with i1 daughters therefore receiving some of the genes
I am certain that not all 80% of Ireland belongs to the same subclade of r1b

i agree on that though
to reach this kind of frequency %
is beyond words and very likely involved killing
or systematic genocide of the first people who settled in ireland
maybe r1b people had some technological advantage or very advanced attack tools


p.s
small question how is all this related to macedonians ?
they don't have a huge y haplogroup dominant like in ireland
they are a mixture of: r1a , e-v13, I2 , j2b and r1b

[TaktikatEMalet]

i agree on that though
to reach this kind of frequency %
is beyond words and very likely involved killing
or systematic genocide of the first people who settled in ireland
maybe r1b people had some technological advantage or very advanced attack tools
p.s
small question how is all this related to macedonians ?
they don't have a huge y haplogroup dominant like in ireland
they are a mixture of: r1a , e-v13, I2 , j2b and r1b

Someone above brought up Irish people. In terms of what 80% r1b means is first of all not too much because the sub clades weren't mentioned. The r1b may have come from different periods from different groups such as the angles, the french, vikings etc in addition to the i1 they carried. If you look at the English they have a lot of r1b too accompanied by i1, so if we say 60/25 then Ireland having 10% i1 would make it likely to have received 15%+ foreign r1b at the same time because it wouldn't have just been pure i1 who would have had an impact in Ireland, they would have been integrated with the people they encountered previously. So English r1b and French r1b, some of which may be similar or the same to that the Irish had in the first place but would have extra northern i1 features from mixing with their women

For Macedonia we know that i2 is mostly south slavic post 600AD. R1a if Z93 could be Thracian? Otherwise most of it is likely south slavic 600AD+
V13 is mostly south/central european BC, j2b l283 is mostly balkan BC, R1b is varied depends on what subclade Macedonians have.

Looking at all these you would have to say Macedonians are more mixed than Irish but difficult to say for sure without subclade percentages. If the Irish have various subclade of R1b and the highest one group goes is 10% then it is possible that Macedonians are less mixed

In any case this is too complex to answer because we don't have much ancient dna or ancient written history. What we do know is that Ireland is a remote region and also a cold region so less groups of people would have passed through

[Pericles]

Are you talking about North Macedonians? Actual Macedonians are Greek, right?

[DuPidh]

Are you talking about North Macedonians? Actual Macedonians are Greek, right?

Enough lies! The world is not stupid. Macedonians were Macedonians, spoke different language until 4 century ad. The rest are lies cooked in Greek government kitchens1!

[Angela]

Enough lies! The world is not stupid. Macedonians were Macedonians, spoke different language until 4 century ad. The rest are lies cooked in Greek government kitchens1!

More posts like this and you're going to go silent for a good, long while.