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  1. #101
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    CAN YOU READ ENGLISH????????????

    This is usual Ottoman Statistic that cruise the web, to prove that during the Ottoman time there were no Macedonians.

    It is less known that the Ottomans were dividing the Population by their Religious affiliation, not Ethncity. So the Greeks are the Patriarchist affiliated Population, Bulgarians are the Exarchat affiliated Population, Jews are the Hebrew affiliated Population etc.

    Look at the Vilaet of Kosova, you will notice that the majority of the non Moslem Populaton are of Bulgarian affiliation. How ever we know that there are no Bulgarians in Kosovo, thus this Bulgarians in the Ottoman statistics are most likely the Serbs affiliated with the Exarchate, cause the Serb church had no access to Kosovo region till 1912.

    Another prove that this statistic are not Ethnic based is the fact that there are Moslem and Catolic affiliated Population. I would like someone to explain me what kind of Ethnic Groups are the Moslem or the Catolic one, if this has to be taken for Ethnic-Group statistic?

    Important Note: In the Kosovo Vilayet were included not only modern Kosvo, but Rashka, the old Serbia and Pech - the modern Sit of the Serb Church.

    In the words of Essyn Levent Emurla:
    ............ the legacy of the Ottoman millet system which divided the empire's population according to religious affiliation, leading to a long-lasting correlation between religion and identity.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Vilayet




    There is no Serbs in Kosovo? Are you stupid or what?

    http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Ot...tatistics.html
    Statistics of the Population of Macedonia before its Partition and the "Macedonian Question"

    In 1827, the European powers intervened on behalf of the Greek rebels and forced the Turks to grant them independence. The same powers, established the first modern Greek state, chose Prince Otto of Bavaria to be the "King of the Hellenes", and sent him to Athens. Serbia freed herself also from the Turkish rule, while Russia declared war on Turkey to help Bulgaria gain its independence. The war between Russia and Turkey ended on March 3, 1878, with the peace settlement of San Stefano. The Turks had to agree to the formation of the new Bulgarian state, to also include all of Macedonia but the city of Salonika. Russia was hoping that greater Bulgaria with Macedonia would give her the strategic exit on the Aegean Sea, but she encountered fierce resistance from Austria-Hungary and England that saw their interests on the Balkans endangered. On July 13, 1878 with the Berlin Conference, they forced Russia to give up her dream and the San Stefano agreement was revised. Macedonia was returned to the Ottoman Empire. From this moment, Macedonia became a battleground where the interests not only of the Balkan states, but also of the Great Powers, collide.
    The Ohrid Archbishopric was founded as a separate church in 995 to care for the religious needs of the Orthodox Macedonians. However, under the influence of the Greek Orthodox church, the Turkish sultan abolished the Macedonian church in 1767. The Greek Orthodox church was now able to enforce its religious teachings in Greek as the only Orthodox church to exist in the Balkans. Greece hoped to spread her influence and propaganda through the newly opened Greek schools, with a goal to Hellenize the population of Macedonia. But as their influence grew bigger, so did the resistance of the Macedonians. On March 7, 1851, the residents of Enidje-Vardar (today in Greece) signed a petition, for replacement of the teachings in Greek with Macedonian. In 1859, in Kukush was formed the resistance movement against the Hellenization that quickly spread to Voden, Kostur, Lerin, and the rest of southern Macedonia. Adding to the Greek influence, the Bulgarians now opened their schools in Macedonia in 1871, and the Serbs followed shortly after. This is the beginning of the so-called "Macedonian Question".
    Statistics without "Macedonians"
    There are three statistical tables that the Greeks and the Bulgarians point to show that the Macedonians do not exist as nation, and that Macedonia belongs to ether one of them.
    1) According to a Turkish census of Hilmi Pasha in 1904, in areas of Macedonia lived:
    Macedonia's Districts
    Greeks
    Bulgarians
    Vilaet of Thessalonica
    373,227
    207,317
    Vilaet of Monastir
    261,283
    178,412
    Santzak of Skopje
    13,452
    172,735

    2) According to a Turkish census of Hilmi Pasha in 1906, in Macedonia lived:
    Muslims
    423,000
    Greeks
    259,000
    Bulgarians
    178,000
    Serbs
    13,150
    Others (Jews)
    73,000

    However, the 2 Turkish censuses above cannot be taken into consideration because the Turks registered the inhabitants based upon their religious background, not ethnic. In Macedonia at that moment the Macedonian Orthodox Church was forbidden (upon the insistence of the Greeks in 1767), and the Macedonians had choice to enter either Islam or the only Christian Orthodox Churches the Turks legitimized - and those were the Greek, Bulgarian, or Serbian, because Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia were already independent countries. The Islam was not an option for the first Christians of Europe, and the Macedonians had no other choice but to have religious services in Bulgarian, Greek, or Serbian Church. As result, as it can be seen above, the Turkish census registered Muslims, Jews, and the Christian Macedoniansweredivided depending on which church they belonged - mostly Bulgarian and Greek as it shows.
    3) Another table is the one published by the League of the Nations. According to the League of the Nations in 1926, in Aegean Macedonia occupied by Greece in 1913 lived:
    Turks
    2,000
    Greeks
    1,341,000
    Bulgarisants
    77,000
    Others (Jews)
    91,000

    But this map was submitted to the League of the Nations by the Greek government and it is clear that it is biased. The League of the Nations had not visited Aegean Macedonia and did not participate at all in conducting these statistics. Greece here refers to the Macedonians as "bulgarisants", which means "those who pretend to be Bulgarians" and obviously non-Bulgarians. However, Greece uses many other names in falsifying the identity of the Macedonians. Slavophones, Slav Macedonians, Makedoslavs, Slav Greeks, and Bulgarisants, are only some of the names that prove Greece's unpreparess in this mean falsification of the Macedonian people and language.
    Greek, Bulgarian, and Serbian Statistics of Macedonia's Population
    The new independent Balkan states used their Churches and schools to propagate how the Macedonians do not exist, and how Macedonia was populated only by Greeks, Bulgarians, and Serbs. Ethnographers, historians, and writers begun writing books in favor of this or that propaganda. Many of them did not even visit Macedonia, while those who did already had a written scenario. Their presence there was only a simple formality. Table 1 gives an excellent proof of those Balkan speculations and bias surrounding Macedonia:




    balkan views
    Greek





    Nikolaides
    1899
    Bulgarian
    Kenchov
    1900
    Serbian
    Gopchevich
    1886




    Macedonian Slavs
    454,000





    -
    -




    Serbs
    -





    400
    1,540,000




    Bulgarians
    -





    1,037,000
    -




    Greeks
    656,300





    214,000
    201,000




    Turks and others
    576,600





    610,365
    397,020

    Table 1. Greek, Bulgarian, and Serbian Statistics of Macedonia's population
    It is more than obvious that all the views coming from the Macedonia's neighbors which sharply contradict eachother, are biased. They all claim their people in Macedonia to justify their well-planned aspirations. It is important to note that both the Bulgarian and Serbian views agree that the Greeks in Macedonia represent only a small minority of 10%. The Greek ethnographer Nikolaides, on the other hand, claims three times bigger number than his colleagues in Belgrade and Sofia. However, the most important about Nikolaides is that he recognizes the Macedonian Slavs as a separate nation, separate from the Bulgarians and the Serbs, to be part of population of Macedonia. And although he tries hard to lower the numbers of those Macedonian Slavs, he still comes up with a convincing proof of their existence.
    Independent and Neutral European Statistics of Macedonia's Population
    This is the time when many European slavists, ethnographers, and historians, are also attracted to visit Macedonia and conduct their own investigations. Therefore, to find the unbiased population numbers in Macedonia, we have to rely on neutral and independent statistics:




    neutral views
    German





    Dr. K. Ostreich
    1905
    Austrian
    K. Gersin
    1903
    English
    Andrew Rousos




    Macedonian Slavs
    1,500,000





    1,182,036
    1,150,000




    Serbs
    -





    -
    -




    Bulgarians
    -





    -
    -




    Greeks
    200,000





    228,702
    300,000




    Turks and others
    550,000





    627,915
    400,000

    Table 2. Independent and Neutral European Statistics of Macedonia's Population



    Although the Macedonians are referred as "Macedonian Slavs", the main point of the statistics is the fact that they are recognized as distinct nation with cultural and historical right over their country Macedonia in which they are overwhelming majority. The reluctance to refer to them for what they are (simply as Macedonians), is explained by the overemphasizing of the contemporary Greek vs. Slavic (Serb and Bulgarian) rivalry over Macedonia in which the westerners desired to make the note that the Macedonians were more "Slavs" then "Greeks" - thus resulting in the use of the term "Macedonian Slavs" to distinguish them from all but still indicate their closer relation to their northern then southern neighbors, as interestingly was the case with the ancient Macedonians and their closer relations with the Thracians and Illyrians then with the ancient Greeks.

    Yet the term "Macedonian Slavs" is erroneous since the Macedonians, although conscious of their ancient Macedonian roots and Slav admixture, did not specifically call themselves "Macedonians Slavs", but Macedonians as the documents over the last 2,500 years show. The same "Macedonian Slavs" mistake was again repeated by some western media, as the Albanian terrorists attacked Macedonia in March of 2001, and again it was done deliberately. This deliberate bias is again there, unfortunately because of the political situation and the western media's inclination towards the goals of the Albanian terrorism for "Greater Albania". As at the beginning of the 20th century, the Macedonians showed their outrage at the beginning of the 21st century of this racial insult and publicly instead that their nationality be respected. Not only the Macedonians all over the world vigorously accused the western media for racial bias, but also did various western independent and non-government organizations. That referring to the Macedonians as "Macedonian Slavs" was a mistake was publicly acknowledged by BBC which apologized and withdrew its reporter Paul Wood precisely for his bias reporting, and since continued to rightfully refer to the Macedonians for what they have always been - Macedonians.
    From the two above tables one can easily notice that the number of Greeks in Macedonia according to the neutral authors also aligns with the numbers given by the Serb and Bulgarian authors. This is a proof that the Greeks before the partition of Macedonia, were indeed a small minority, only 10% from the total population. This fact certainly does not give them the copyright of the name Macedonia. Dr. Ostreich, Gersin, and Roussos, are only a few of the many neutral authors to prove the groundless speculations of the Balkan counties. They proved that Macedonia belongs to a separate nation, which proves that the Bulgarians and the Serbs have than simply substituted the numbers of the Macedonians for theirs. Another Austrian, Karl Hron explained why that is unjustified:
    "According to my own studies on the Serb-Bulgarian conflict I came to the conclusion that the Macedonians looking at their history and language are a separate nation, which means they are not Serbs nor Bulgarians, but the descendants of those Slavs who populated the Balkan peninsula long before the Serb and Bulgarian invasions, and who later did not mix with any of those other two nations..." and:
    "... the Macedonian language according to its own laws in the development of the voices, and its own grammatical rules, forms one separate language".
    There were even Greek and Bulgarian writers to support what Karl Hron has written. One such example is the Bulgarian slavist and ethnographer P. Draganov, who in his studies of 1887-1894 and 1903, proved the existence of the Macedonians and the Macedonian language as a distinct language.
    At the time of the emergence of the so-called Macedonian question, and the aspirations of the Macedonian neighbors for occupation of the country, the famous Macedonian Gjorgi Pulevski wrote in 1875:
    "People who originate from one and the same race, speak the same language, live together in harmony, and have the same customs, songs and mentality, constitute a nation, and the place where they live is their homeland. In this way, the Macedonians are a nation and their homeland is Macedonia" and,
    "I am not Bulgarian, nor Greek, nor Tzintzar, I am pure Macedonian as were Philip and Alexander the Macedonian and Aristotle Philosopher"
    Pulevski was right back in 1875. He was proud Macedonian of his ancient heritage, conscious, and aware that the Macedonians were a distinct nation, a fact that the documents of the last 25 centuries clearly show.

    The usage of Macedonian and Macedonia separate from Greek or Bulgarian and Greece or Bulgaria is more than obvious. Also these sources are objective, old and clear, and do not offer any further interpretation; that is how they prove the existence of the Macedonians as a Nation with this name in this region, separate from the Greeks and Bulgarians in many ways. The fact that old documents call these people Macedonians shows that the Macedonians aren't an artificial creation, but a nation with a homeland and a name-Macedonia and Macedonians.


  2. #102
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    And here is your Greek-Turkish heritage. Greeks mixed with the Turks and are the modern Greeks.

    Modern Greeks always talk proudly about their so-called "Makedonias Agonas", a war they state was to liberate the 'Greek' Macedonians and 'Greek' Macedonia from Turkish rule. In reality, the so-called "Makedonias Agonas" was nothing more then a war of genocide against the indigenous Macedonian population with the aim of annexing Aegean Macedonia to modern Greece. Ironically, the biggest allies of the modern Greeks in this endeavor besides the English were the Turks. Below is a small collection of photographs from that period which document Turko-Greek collaboration.

    The infamous photo of Greek Bishop Karavangelis blessing the Turkish guns prior to their use against Macedonians.


    Another photo of Karavangelis and his Turkish allies.


    Greeks and their Turkish allies, notice both flags in the background


    Greek bandits posing with their Turkish Allies


    More Greek bandits posing with their Turkish Allies


    Greek bandit posing with Turkish Allie


    Another Greek posing with Turkish Allies


    Another Greek posing with Turkish Allies



  3. #103
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    The ancient Greek language or is it Turkish?

    Greek language.

    Well teach us the turkish language while you are at it. Just ask your baba if you need help. Oh here i will start it for you.

    Here is your continuity

    TURKISH ENGLISH GREEK
    det Custom Adeti
    Afaroz Excommunicate Aforismos
    Aga Land owner Agas
    Ahmak Idiot Ahmakis
    Ahtapot Octopus Htapodi
    Alan Area, ground Alana
    Alarga Open sea, distant Alarga
    Aman For mercy's sake Aman
    Anadolu Anatolia (East in Greek) Anatoli
    Ananas Pineapple Ananas
    Anason Aniseed Anithos
    Anfora Anchor Amphoreus
    Angarya Forced labor Angaria
    Aptal Stupid Abdalis
    Apukurya Carnival Apokria
    Arap Negro, bogyman Arapis
    Arnavut Albanian Arnautis
    Asik Someone in love Asikis
    Atlet Athlete Athlitis
    Avanak Gullible, stupid Avanakis
    Ayran A drink Ariani
    Baba - Father - Babas
    Baca - Chimney - Batzias
    Bacak - Leg, leg of trousers in G.- Batzaki
    Bacanak - Brother in law - Batjanakis
    Baglama - A string instrument - Baglamas
    Bahce - Garden - Bahtses
    Bahsis - Tip - Baxisi
    Bakir - Copper - Bakiri
    Bakkal - Grocer - Bakkalis
    Baklava - Baklava - Baklavas
    Balta - Ax - Baltas
    Bamya - Okra - Bamia
    Barbunya - A fish - Barbunia
    Barut - Gunpowder - Baruti
    Battaniye - Woolen Blanket - Batania
    Batakci - Swindler - Bataxis
    Bayrak - Flag - Bairaki
    Bekar - Batchelor - Bekiaris
    Bekri - Drunk - Bekris
    Bela - Trouble - Belas
    Benzin - Petrol, gas - Benzina
    Bereket - Abundance, plenty - Bereket
    Beton - Concrete - Beton
    Bey - Mr. - Beis
    Bezelye - Pea - Bizeli
    Biber - Pepper - Piperi
    Biftek - Steak - Bifteki
    Bodrum - Cellar, dungeon - Boudroumi
    Bomba - Bomb - Bomba
    Bostan - Vegetable field, garden - Bostani
    Bora - Storm - Bora
    Boya - Paint - Bogia
    Borek - Pastry, pie - Boureki
    Bre - Hi, you - Vre
    Budala - Idiot - Boudalas
    Bulgur - Boiled wheat - Bligouri
    But - Thigh - Bouti
    Buz - Ice, very cold - Bouzi
    Buzuki - Bouzouki - Bouzouki
    Cacik - A drink with cucumbers- Tzatziki
    Caka - Swagger, vanity - Tsaka
    Cam - Window pane - Tzami
    Cami - Mosque - Tzami
    Cambaz - Acrobat, dealer in G.- Tzambazis
    Cenabet - Crabbed person - Tzanabetis
    Cep - Pocket - Tsepi
    Cereme - Fine or cost of damage- Tzeremes
    Cezve - Coffee Pot - Tzesves
    Ciger - Liver, lungs - Tziyeri
    Cimbiz - Tweezers - Tsimpida
    Cuce - Dwarf - Tsutzes
    Cadir - Tent - Tsiantiri
    Cakirkeyif - Slightly drunk - Tsakir-kefi
    Cali - Thorny plant - Tsiali
    Calim - Flexibility, show off - Tsalimi
    Cam - Pine tree - Tsami
    Canak - Shallow bowl - Tsanaki
    Canta - Handbag - Tsanta
    Capacul - Untidy - Tsapatulis
    Capari - Weight anchor - Tsapari
    Capkin - Seducer, coquettish - Tsahpinis
    Capraz - Crossed - Tsaprazi
    Cardak - Hut of dried branches - Tsardaki
    Carsi - Market - Charsi
    Carik - Rustic shoe - Tsarouhi
    Catal - Fork - Tsatala
    Catra Patra - Stumbling speech - Tsatra patra
    Cavus- Sergeant - Tsausis
    Cay - Tea - Tsai
    Celebi - Pleasant man, mentor - Tselebis
    Cember - Circle - Tsemperi
    Cengel - Hook - Tsingeli
    Ciklet - Chewing gum - Tsikla
    Ciftetelli- A dance - siftetelli
    Ciftlik - Large country estate - Tsifliki
    Cifit - Tight in money - Tsifoutis
    Cimento - Cement - Tsimento
    Cinko - Zinc - Tsingos
    Ciftlik - Big farm, property - Tsifliki
    Cirak - Apprentice - Tsiraki
    Cipura- A fish - Tsipura
    Ciroz - A fish - Tsiros
    Coban - Shepherd - Tsobanis
    Corap - Woolen sock- Tsurapis
    Corba - soup - Tsorbas
    Corek - Large bun - Tsoureki
    Cotra - File fish - Tsotra

    Ancient GREEK and Turkish are same? Go fool somebody else who dont know your fake identity.

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    Greeks have come out in their true colours in that today we see what they are up to to deny & destroy the macedonian nation.We also know from historical sources the atrocities that they committed & are committing on the macedonian people.Genocide is the way to describe it they are bothing but a vile & despicable peope who will resort to the lowest denominator to get their way.They are the most inhumane people on the face of this earth.The Helsinki Human Rights Watch has allready warned europe that the greeks are lying by denying the existence of the macedonians.Also that the greeks have gone to exhaustive means to cover the fact that there aren't macedonians.For example it jails people who disagree with a number of cases throughout greece.Also it forbids the spoken macedonian language.The forced changing of people's names with greek ones.etc


    It is fashionable today for academicians and plebeians to speak of Greek “civilization” as if it was some monolithic expression of a monolithic state (country) Greece. But whether this is so and whether this could be established, is a matter altogether different—but what it does do is give us some pause of thought.

    In examining these matters, we must first throw off the yoke of Western scholarship, Western bias, and Western humdrum oration. Let us take apart, piece by piece, the mythos surrounding the nonexistent ancient state of “Greece,” and let us reveal the truth of these matters.

    So notwithstanding “My Big Fat Greek Wedding,” and the father’s proclamation of “pick any word, and I will show it to be of Greek origin,” and “the Greeks invented pottery,” let us press ahead and document the errors of Western scholarship and Greek propaganda.

    The ancient writer Tatian, writing over 1500 years ago, understood this all too well when he stated “Cease, then, to miscall these imitations inventions of your own.” So in other words, the Greeks steal, without admission or recognition, other cultures ideas as their own. If they do this for ideas, imagine what they might do with “persons”; wait, they already do that too!

    The alphabet, itself composed of the Greek letter alpha and beta, originated with the Phoenicians.

    Astronomy (Greek word) originated with the Babylonians.

    Geometry, another Greek word, originated with the Egyptians.

    Imagine if English and other European countries used the original words for alphabet, astronomy, geometry, and so forth, they wouldn't sound so Greek! But when you Hellenize the name, they become Greek!

    The problem with ancient European history is that in the last 250 so years western European scholars have divide Europe into two spheres of influence, the Roman latin west, and the Greek east. This definition is very misleading as any non-Greek nation or people residing in the east are automatically identified as being 'Greek'.

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    Bulgarian "scientific" methods bring the term "Bulgarian" into generic link not only with the old Bulgarian, but with everything that ever appeared at any time under this name (!?)

    For shorter and better review of the use and meaning of the term "Bulgarian" starting from the 10th century and especially during the Turkish domination of the Balkans will consider several referential examples that testify against Bulgarian Nationalist doctrine.

    According to the Bulgarian historiography all mentions,and very often wrong, with this name which is for her a fateful moment, that this is them - Bulgarians.

    “Bulgarian elite had to invent, elaborate and underpin a myth of common ancestry and made this pedigree putative for the sense of ethnic identification.”
    - (Smith, Anthony. "National Identity" published in London 1991, p. 22)

    A.Todorov-Balan in his "One Macedonian theory”, book 9-10, Sofia, 1905, 818, states that in the XIX century the Balkan peoples,called the Russian czar -" Bulgarian Tsar "and the Serbian and Russian language - "Bulgarian".

    The term "Bulgarian” during the Ottoman rule denoted – a peasant farmer.

    While the "Grecian" denoted a person of higher class or merchant.

    "During the Ottoman period, therefore, terms like 'Greek' or 'Bulgarian' were not used to designate different ethnic or national groups, but rather broad socio-cultural categories" (Danforth 1995:59)
    - (Mirca Madianou , “Mediating the Nation“, p. 30, is Lecturer and Director of Studies in Social and Political Sciences, Lucy Cavendish College, University of Cambridge)

    "The term "Bulgarian," which had earlier been used to refer to all the Slavs of the Ottoman Empire (Friedman 1975:84), or as a virtual synonym for "peasant" without any political significance at all came to mean "Bulgarian" in a national sense. "(Wilkinson 1951:149),
    - (Loring M. Danforth „The Macedonian Conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World Princeton University Press, 1997, p. 59)

    For example, in Macedonia, Serbia and Bulgaria, class and ethnicity overlapped, resulting in the utilization of the terms “Serb” and “Bulgar” to denote the peasantry per se. Since most peasants were Slavs and most Slavs were peasants, class distinctions often became ethnic distinctions ( Slijepcevic 1958, 82-96; Kofos 1964; Vermulen 1984; Shashko 1973).
    When the Slavs moved into the urban world or became members of the middle classes, they generally shifted their identity to Greek. In Belgrade, for example, Serbian townsmen dressed in the Greek style, the Belgrade newspapers included the rubric Greciia (Greece), and the local Christian “higher strata” were Grecophone until 1840 – according to Stoianovich 1994, 294; and Karanovich 1995, 31.
    In Southern Albania and Greece during the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, thousands of Orthodox Albanians and Vlachs became completely Hellenized ( Skendi 1980, 187-204)”.
    - (Victor Roudometof “Nationalism,Orthodoxy, and Globalization”p. 48)


    We are witnesses of the phenomenon of “ethnicization” of the religious, social or occupational groups in Balkans, very often these groups were denoted by the names of ethnic communities and they used these names to denote themselves as well.

    The term "Grecian" could mean "an Orthodox Christian," but also "reseller" or generally "well situated" citizen. in the same way, "Turk" most marked "Muslim" and "Bulgarian" was a highlight, "villager", with or without an offensive meaning. "Vlach" and marked "shepherd" or "nomads" in general. "Albanian" (arnautin) could be applied to a man from each ethnic group who performed certain military tasks
    The term “Grecian” could mean “Orthodox Christian” but also a “city dweller” or gennerally “well to do citizen”. In the same way,”Turk” often meant “Muslim”, with “Bulgarian” to denote a “villager”, with ot without pejorative connotation. “Vlach” could mean “shepherd” or “nomad” in general.”Albanian” (arnautin) could apply to a person of any ethnic origin performing specific military tasks
    - (Dēmētrēs Tziovas , „Greece and the Balkans“ p. 43)


    According the references of Prof. Keith Brown, “Turk” implied official persona – functionary, “Grecian” meant – merchant, “Bulgarian” – villager, farmer and “Vlach” – shepherd, rancher.
    “When the Macedonian peasants use the term Bulgar, they mean by it: 1) people of a simple and hard-working life, 2) the bulk of simple labourers who speak Slavic, in contrast to the non-Slavs, the Greeks and the Turks, who are above this majority and consider them inferior. The first meaning is the main one: the word “Bulgar” denotes in the first case a simple mode of life, work and thought.”
    - (Keith Brown, „The Past in Question, modern Macedonia and the Uncertainties of Nation“, p. 59)

    Habsburg authorities in Transylvania, tended to call all members of Orthodox merchant companies “Greeks”, irrespective thet they included not only Slavs, Romanians, and Christian Albanians, but also a sprinkle of Armenians and Jews. Western travelers in Macedonia, quickly realized that the term “Bulgarian” was locally used to describe poor Slav peasants.
    - (Katerina Zacharia и Dimitris Livianos „ Hellenisms: culture, identity, and ethnicity from antiquity to modernity“, p. 249)

    “In Macedonia, as late as the early twentieth century, both “Greeks” and “Bulgarian: denoted professions, the later often being applied to poor, Slavic-speaking, Orthodoc Christian peasants, shepherds, or laborers of lower social status to whom were ascribed a “peasant” culture.”
    - ( Peter Mackridge, „Language and National Identity in Greece, 1766 – 1976“)

    Trajan Stojanović in his book "Balkan Worlds: The First and Last Europe", p.143 again underlines that the term "Bulgarians" were called the farmers and with "Vlachs" the shepherds.

    The Bulgarian member of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences Vasil Drumev wrote: "And we've began to learn Greek, to speak in Greek, to call ourselves Greeks. And there is still among us respected Bulgarians, who are grecoficating, who speak .. in Greek, who hate the Bulgarians.”

    K. Irachek in - "History of Bulgarians”, Sofia, 1929, 385-386, says that the citizens for the simple, uneducated provincials (peasants) always used the name - "Bulgarians" by adding the obligatory – thick headed, *****, stumps and other abusive words.

    The Traveler Sir John Mandeville, in1357 travelling throught Balkans wrote that Serbia is land of Bougiers, while Blegrade in that time was known by the name “Alba Graeca” and “Alba Bulgarica”.

    Simeon Lehaci in his journey memories wrote that all the people in Bosnia speaks in "Bulgarian", and they were "Greeks" in religion.


    All peasants were Macedonians; shepherds were Vlachs; merchants and bureaucrats were Greeks; and the high administrators were Muslims.”- (“Minorities and mother country imagery” By Gerald L. Gold, Memorial University of Newfoundland. Institute of Social and Economic Research, p. 60.)

    Prof. Stilpon Kyriakidis in the “Northern ethnological frontiers of Hellenism ", on p.39:
    "While at the time of Simeon did not cease to differ Dragovites from Strumianites and generally Sclavinians from Bulgarians, since Samuel the name of Sclavinias completely disappeared, and all Macedonian Slavs are called Bulgarians by the Byzantines and the country that Samuel ruled, that is western and northern Macedonia is called Bulgaria. In this way, we ourselves gave the name Bulgarian to everyone that speaks Slavic ".

    The propaganda consisted of introducing among the common Slavic people the world “Bolgar”, as a synonym for “Slavonic Christian”; As this propaganda was so strong, really the word “Bolgar” became a synonym for “Christian that speak Slavonic” in the 19 Cent., but not and nationality.
    When bulgarian peasant used to say "we are Bulgars", he meant "we are Christians", i.e. Orthodox (Periodichesko spisanie (Sofia), LXV (1904), p.818)

    Another indisputable proof that the “Bulgarian” at that time meant Slav, and then "Bulgarians" thought of themselves as pure Slavs, the same people with the Serbs and the Macedonians and Illyrians (Croats, Slovenes and Montenegrins) presents "The History of Bulgarian people " by Fr. Spiridon of Gabrovo, which in its short history says:

    "Bolgarians came into rule in Thrace, Macedonia, Dalmatia, White Sea and the Rome... Illyrians (Serbs and Croats, my note) are called Bolgarians... and from Bolgarians originated the Serbs, and when Alexander took the whole Ilyrian army to conquer of the world ... since then Bolgarians began to call themselves Macedonians and Slavs "
    - (Spyridon Yeroschimonach, History in short of Bolgarian Slav nation 1792, tran. B. Hristova, prof. Raikov B., BAK at NB “Ss.Cyril and Methodius ", and" GAL-ICO, Sofia, 1992)

    Jordan Hadzhikonstantinov - Dzinot, tells that for him the term Bulgarians means Slavs, so in his "Legend of Thessaloniki," published in 1859 says St. Cyril and Methodius, the apostles of all Bulgarians (Slavs), and in Bulgarians includes the Moravians from Great Moravia and Pannonia (Glasnik drustva srpske slovenosti, VIII, p. 146-147)

    Krste Petkov Misirkov explains the concept “Bulgarian”: "The Greeks also did not differ the Slavic nations and all Slavs ... called with the despised name "Bulgarians"
    ... The Greeks used the name Bulgarian to incarnate in him their contempt for everything Slavic. .. With the name Bulgarians, we Macedonians were christen by the Greeks,as well. But this re-christening was not the only one... “ (Krste Petkov Misirkov "On Macedonian Matters" Preface, Sofia, Printing House of the Liberal Club, 1903).

    For Mr. Gennady, Metropolitan of Veles in 19th century ( born in the village Podkozhene, Podgradec) the concept “Bulgarian” is the same with the term Slavs, and he wrote that the Czechs and Slovakians are Bulgarians: “ of Bohemia and Moravia they are all Slavs, pure Bulgarians, our brothers” (Source: Simeon Radev “ Early memories”, titled “Meeting of four Bulgarian bishops” new, revised and expanded edition, edited by Trajan Radev, publishing house “Strelec”, Sofia, 1994)

    Macedonian teacher Nikola Pop-Philipov, says that "Bulgarian" language is a general Balkan language (newspaper "Macedonia" Constantinople, April 6, 1868), referring to the Slavic language.

    Grigor Prlicev writes in his autobiography: “... the Bulgarian alphabet only to three was known and was called Serbian..” (Grigor Prlicev, Autobigraphy). For him and the Serbians were Bulgarians i.e. Slavs; at that time, only Serbs had reformed and codified Slavic alphabet, and because of it Prlicev says that the Bulgarian (Slavonic) alphabet was called Serbian.

    The famous Macedonian textbook writer Dimitar Macedonian sees its people as ancient Macedonians, and in one of his article writes that the ancient Macedonians are not swallowed by the earth, but are pure Slavs: "... Macedonians are not Vlachs or some other nation, but pure Bulgarians (thinking of Slavs) ... therefore you’ll learn that the Macedonians are not lost from the face of the earth, as some allow to say, because, as far as we know, they did not done anything so bad, what should open the earth to swallow them. "(see Makedonia of 16/02/1871).

    In its “Brief holy history for the schools in Macedonia (in Macedonian dialect) printed in “ The printing of Macedonia”, Constantinople in 1867, writes:
    Q.[Question] Who are those Bulgarians(Slavs), who were baptized in the early first century after Christ’s birth?
    A.[Answer] They are Bulgarians who live in Macedonia
    Q. From whom are they baptized?
    A. The Apostle Paul, who first preached at Philippi and Thessaloniki

    It becomes obvious that under the umbrella of the term "Bulgarians" also enter the ancient Macedonians, who were first baptized by the Apostle Paul, whole 5 centuries before the ethnic name "Bulgarians" to appear on the Balkans at all and generally European geographic regions.

    Next reference is the book of Mark Mazower “Salonica City of Ghosts” p.249, who writes about the visit of Sir Henry Layards of Thessaloniki, and here’s what he means under these terms:
    To be a “Greek” meant to be a “Orthodox Christian” while under the term “Bulgarian” was held to be one of reproach and contempt.

    Not last confirmation, but sufficient for completion of this reference overview of the meaning of these terms, according to the book of Nace Dimov “Historical line of Macedonia and Macedonian Slavs” Chapter first p.13-15, from 1913:

    ”Therefore, in Macedonia there was such a position that the same Macedonian nation was called Grecian, Serbian and Bulgarian, just because one recognizes the Greek patriarch and pray in Greek churches, and another goes into a Slavic church. In each the same towns and villages the priests that receive a salary of Bulgarian Exarchate call themselves Bulgarians, those receiving the salary from the Serbian Diocese called themselves Serb and Macedonian Slav population that goes into one or another school or church calling itself Grecian, Serb or Bulgarian

    From all that I expressed I can say that the Macedonians have a hundred percent right to autonomy and not be subjected to fragmentation among Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians. Regardless of that the Serbian, Greek and Bulgarian government, for extending their boundaries on Macedonian territory, without saving money and exterminating the Macedonians who do not want to call themselves Greek, Serb and Bulgarian and those who do not know how to speak Serbian and Greek.”

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    WHERE ARE THE REAL GREEKS?

    Archbishop Ieronymos II of Athens

    He was born Ioannis Liapis (Greek: Ιωάννης Λιάπης, Iōánnēs Liápēs) in Oinofyta, Boeotia. He is an Arvanite. (Albanian)


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    WHERE ARE THE REAL GREEKS?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populat...ece_and_Turkey
    The 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey was based upon religious identity, and involved the Greek Orthodox citizens of Turkey and the Muslim citizens of Greece. It was a major compulsory population exchange, or agreed mutual expulsion.

    1914 document showing the official figures from the 1914 population census of the Ottoman Empire. The total population (sum of all the millets) was given at 20,975,345, and the Greek population was given at 1,792,206

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    Ethnic group
    Greeks
    Country: Greece



    Besides you took all the Greek words and all the Arvanitet and all the Pontian Greek and you turn them

    ALL THE WORDS YOU WRITE ABOVE ARE GREEK WORDS AND ARVANITET, THAT TURKISH BORROWED, YOUR HOAX IS ENORMOUS, YOU TOOK ALL THE GREEK WORDS IN TURKISH LANGUGE AND MAKE THEM TURKISH AND THEN TURN THEM AND YOU SAY THAT GREK ARE TURKISH,

    ARE YOU NUTS?

    WHO BELIEVES YOU,

    ALL THE WORDS YOU WRITE ABOVE ARE FROM PARTS OF GREECE, AND ARBANITET NOT TURKISH

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    The ancient Greek language or is it Turkish?

    Greek language.

    Well teach us the turkish language while you are at it. Just ask your baba if you need help. Oh here i will start it for you.

    Here is your continuity

    TURKISH ENGLISH GREEK ......

    Ancient GREEK and Turkish are same? Go fool somebody else who dont know your fake identity.
    Actually, many of the words are present all over Balkan, also in Macedonia....
    Many or at least some of them are likely to origin from Greece....
    Before Ottomans arrived to Asia minor, Greek was main spoken language there....
    In fact, modern Turkish people largely origin from pre-Ottoman native Greek speaking people, and thus it is quite normal if modern Turkish has lot of loan words of Greek origin...and I do not understand purpose of listing these words shared between turkish and Greek....so what if some Turkish words are adapted in areas that were part of Ottoman empire... even if the whole vocabulary is shared that would mean nothing when it comes to genetics and origin....

    btw. Deja Vu, can't you be more relaxed about topics we discuss here? I don't think most of people who come here are in mood to participate in argues and little wars with imaginary enemies....discussions should not be about propganada-like shouting on each other, but a joint effort to figure out what might be the truth about history events.... if you are not able to participate in discussions in civilized way with respect for other people and their origin, perhaps forums are not best place for you and maybe you should consider joining some army or some religious sect that will provide you with enemies and allow you to live in black/white them/us division of the world...

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    FAKE GREEKS link to your statements, I want to know what the white DNA is, never heard about it before.

    Summary:

    1) The DNA make-up of today's Greeks is 99.5% white. The study cliams that today's Greek has 99.5% the same DNA make-up as as the white Greeks of ancient times. (no link)

    2) Contrary to beliefs by many in Turkey and certain Slavic nations of ex-Yugoslavia, Greek DNA has not been influenced, nor altered, by the mixture of Slavic or Turkish DNA, even though Ottomans ruled a large part of Greece for 400 years. (no link)

    3) Out of a sample of 925 modern-day Greek DNA, only 0.4% exhibited non-white DNA. (no link)

    4) To a large extenet, Greeks of the ancient time "transfered" their DNA to other parts of Europe through their conquests. The study showed that, today, Greek DNA is most similar to: a) Italian DNA, b) French DNA, c) Spanish DNA, d) Turkish DNA. (no link)

    5) The DNA of Italians in modern day southern Italy is the closest match to the DNA of their Greek neighbors." (no link)

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    There is no more to discuss in normal way its already out of control with spammers.

    Told you all to stop posting and start a new tread, you did not want that lets continue with political discussions that nobody cares about. Wanna play low IQ people lets continue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    Actually, many of the words are present all over Balkan, also in Macedonia....
    Many or at least some of them are likely to origin from Greece....
    Before Ottomans arrived to Asia minor, Greek was main spoken language there....
    In fact, modern Turkish people largely origin from pre-Ottoman native Greek speaking people, and thus it is quite normal if modern Turkish has lot of loan words of Greek origin...and I do not understand purpose of listing these words shared between turkish and Greek....so what if some Turkish words are adapted in areas that were part of Ottoman empire... even if the whole vocabulary is shared that would mean nothing when it comes to genetics and origin....

    btw. Deja Vu, can't you be more relaxed about topics we discuss here? I don't think most of people who come here are in mood to participate in argues and little wars with imaginary enemies....discussions should not be about propganada-like shouting on each other, but a joint effort to figure out what might be the truth about history events.... if you are not able to participate in discussions in civilized way with respect for other people and their origin, perhaps forums are not best place for you and maybe you should consider joining some army or some religious sect that will provide you with enemies and allow you to live in black/white them/us division of the world...
    I was about to post something like that but you did it first! Dankjewel

    This whole thread seems stupid after all these posts... DejaVu's posts are filled with propaganda and he clearly has not critical thinking. If I didn't know that most people from FYROM have been fed lies by their government the last 30 years I would think he has mental issues (no offense).

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    After your fake conclusions you have been revealed and now you are blind again? My post just showed your identity and there will be more so continue to have anger. You are so fake that you cant even answer your own admits.

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    No one has anger here but you. And your posts don't really show anything... You keep contradicting yourself. What you read online and what people tell you is not always correct.

    I won't bother replying to you anymore because you are irrational and I can't make irrational people believe that the sky is blue... (Greek proverb). If they want the sky to be red I just let them be...

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    Ofcourse you are blind your IQ is so low that you cant see the facts.

    When are you going to confirm your statements?

    Summary:

    1) The DNA make-up of today's Greeks is 99.5% white. The study cliams that today's Greek has 99.5% the same DNA make-up as as the white Greeks of ancient times. (no link)

    2) Contrary to beliefs by many in Turkey and certain Slavic nations of ex-Yugoslavia, Greek DNA has not been influenced, nor altered, by the mixture of Slavic or Turkish DNA, even though Ottomans ruled a large part of Greece for 400 years. (no link)

    3) Out of a sample of 925 modern-day Greek DNA, only 0.4% exhibited non-white DNA. (no link)

    4) To a large extenet, Greeks of the ancient time "transfered" their DNA to other parts of Europe through their conquests. The study showed that, today, Greek DNA is most similar to: a) Italian DNA, b) French DNA, c) Spanish DNA, d) Turkish DNA. (no link)

    5) The DNA of Italians in modern day southern Italy is the closest match to the DNA of their Greek neighbors." (no link)


    Be proud and be Turkish christians, your real identity.

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    It's all in Dianekes blogspot. You can find it in google and search for yourself. Goodnight

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    Bible information.

    DANIEL 8:20-21
    http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calc...html?bcb=right
    20. The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
    21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
    By the word “Javan” the Hebrews designate not only the Greeks but the: Macedonians, and the whole of that tract which is divided by the Hellespont, from Asia Minor as far as Illyricum. Therefore the meaning is — the king of Greece.


    http://www.openbible.info/

    Acts 16:9 A vision appeared to Paul in the night. There was a man of Macedonia standing, begging him, and saying, "Come over into Macedonia and help us."

    Acts 16:10 When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go out to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to preach the Good News to them.
    Acts 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is a city of Macedonia, the foremost of the district, a Roman colony. We were staying some days in this city.
    Acts 18:5 But when Silas and Timothy came down from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ.
    Acts 19:21 Now after these things had ended, Paul determined in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, "After I have been there, I must also see Rome."
    Acts 19:22 Having sent into Macedonia two of those who served him, Timothy and Erastus, he himself stayed in Asia for a while.
    Acts 20:1 After the uproar had ceased, Paul sent for the disciples, took leave of them, and departed to go into Macedonia.
    Acts 20:3 When he had spent three months there, and a plot was made against him by Jews as he was about to set sail for Syria, he determined to return through Macedonia.
    Romans 15:26 For it has been the good pleasure of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are at Jerusalem.
    1 Corinthians 16:5 But I will come to you when I have passed through Macedonia, for I am passing through Macedonia.
    2 Corinthians 1:16 and by you to pass into Macedonia, and again from Macedonia to come to you, and to be sent forward by you on my journey to Judea.
    2 Corinthians 2:13 I had no relief for my spirit, because I didn't find Titus, my brother, but taking my leave of them, I went out into Macedonia.
    2 Corinthians 7:5 For even when we had come into Macedonia, our flesh had no relief, but we were afflicted on every side. Fightings were outside. Fear was inside.
    2 Corinthians 8:1 Moreover, brothers, we make known to you the grace of God which has been given in the assemblies of Macedonia;
    2 Corinthians 9:2 for I know your readiness, of which I boast on your behalf to them of Macedonia, that Achaia has been prepared for a year past. Your zeal has stirred up very many of them.
    2 Corinthians 11:9 When I was present with you and was in need, I wasn't a burden on anyone, for the brothers, when they came from Macedonia, supplied the measure of my need. In everything I kept myself from being burdensome to you, and I will continue to do so.
    Philippians 4:15 You yourselves also know, you Philippians, that in the beginning of the Good News, when I departed from Macedonia, no assembly shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving but you only.
    1 Thessalonians 1:7 so that you became an example to all who believe in Macedonia and in Achaia.
    1 Thessalonians 1:8 For from you the word of the Lord has been declared, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith toward God has gone out; so that we need not to say anything.
    1 Thessalonians 4:10 for indeed you do it toward all the brothers who are in all Macedonia. But we exhort you, brothers, that you abound more and more; 1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I was going into Macedonia, stay at Ephesus that you might command certain men not to teach a different doctrine,

    If Greece is same as Macedonia why dont they use the name Greece?



    Bible Study Lesson for Acts 20:1-6: Through Macedonia and Greece

    Acts chapter 20 can be broken up into two short and one long section. Verses 1-6 briefly describes Paul's travels in Macedonia and Greece. Verses 7-12 describes the story of how a young man named Eutychus was raised from the dead. Verses 13-38 describes Paul's emotional farewell to the elders from Ephesus.

    Read Acts 20:1. Paul, remember, is currently on his third missionary journey. { Hand out books with the third missionary journey maps. Ask them to find Ephesus on their maps } My commentary said Paul had four main things he wanted to accomplish: 1) Leave Ephesus; 2) preach in Troas on his way to Macedonia { Ask the group to find Troas on their maps }; 3) meet Titus at Troas with a report from Corinth. This is based on 2 Corinthians 2:12-13; and 4) continue collecting an offer for the church in Judea. This is based on 1 Corinthians 16:1-4, 2 Corinthians 8:1-4. The Jerusalem church, at this time, may have been poverty stricken either because of famine or because of persecution.

    Read Acts 20:2-3. Luke does not give us specifics about Paul's travel through Macedonia into Greece, but it is believed that the three months spent in Greece was in Corinth. { Ask group to look at their maps again and trace Paul's estimated path from Ephesus to Corinth } My commentary said that these three months were probably the winter months, when it would not have been safe to sail. It is during his time in Corinth that he would have received the collection for the relief of the Judean Christians. { Put up symbol of money bags on flannel board }

    When Paul's three months are up, he wants to sail back to Syria (that is Antioch), but discovers a plot against him. My commentary proved this information: "The Jews were determined to take Paul's life; also, at this time he was carrying the offering for the Christians in Judea, so there would have been a temptation for theft as well. The port at Cenchrea would have provided a convenient place for Paul's enemies to detect him as he entered a ship to embark for Syria." So, at the last minute, it sounds like, he changes his mind and decides to retrace his route through Greece and Macedonia.

    Why is Macedonia and Greece mentioned as separate countries/nationalities?
    Because they are different nations/nationality since the beginning of existence.

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    The real Greeks?
    Archbishop Ieronymos II of Athens (ARVANITE)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Ieronymos_II_of_Athens
    He was born Ioannis Liapis (Greek: Ιωάννης Λιάπης, Iōánnēs Liápēs) in Oinofyta, Boeotia. He is an Arvanite. (Albanian)


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlos_Kountouriotis (ARVANITE)
    Pavlos Kountouriotis (
    Greek: ΠαύλοςΚουντουριώτης, 9 April 1855 - 22 August 1935) was a Greekadmiral and naval hero during the Balkan Wars and the first and thirdPresident of the Second Hellenic Republic.
    Pavlos Kountouriotis was a member of the
    Arvanite Kountouriotis family which originated from the island of Hydra, Saronic Islands as many of the heroes of 1821; many members of the family took part in the Greek War of Independence, including his grandfather, Georgios Kountouriotis, who was Prime Minister of Greece under King Otto. The original family name was Zervas but was changed to Kountouriotis, since one of their ancestors lived for a while in the village of Kountoura, Megarida.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_of_Greece (GERMAN)
    Otto Frederick, prince of Bavaria or Othon, king of Greece (
    Greek: θων, Βασιλεςτςλλάδος, Óthon, Vasiléfs tis Elládos; 1 June 1815 – 26 July 1867) was made the first modern King of Greece in 1832 under the Convention of London, whereby Greece became a new independent kingdom under the protection of the Great Powers (the United Kingdom, France and the Russian Empire).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kolettis (VLACH)
    Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: ΙωάννηςΚωλέττης) (1773[citation needed] - 1847) was a Greek politician of Vlach origin who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kapodistrias (Venetian)
    Count Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias (Greek: ΚόμηςΙωάννηςΑντώνιοςΚαποδίστριας – Komis Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias, in Italian: Giovanni Capo d'Istria, Conte Capo d'Istria, and in Russian: графИоаннКаподистрияGraf Ioann Kapodistriya) (February 11, 1776 – October 9, 1831) was a Greek diplomat of the Russian Empire and later first head of state of independent Greece.
    Ioannis Kapodistrias was born in Corfu,(Κέρκυρα/Kerkyra in Greek), one of the Ionian Islands, which at the time of his birth were a possession of Venice . He studied medicine, philosophy and the law at Padua, in Italy. When he was 21 years old, in 1797, he started his medical practice as a doctor in his native island of Corfu. He was throughout his life a deeply liberal thinker and a true democrat, though born and raised as a nobleman. An ancestor of Kapodistrias' had been created a conte (count) by Charles Emmanuel II, Duke of Savoy, and the title was later (1679) inscribed in the Libro d'Oro of the Corfu nobility; the title originates from Capodistria, a city on the eastern shore of the Gulf of Venice, now Koper in Slovenia and the place of origin of Kapodistrias' family before they moved to Corfu in the 13th century where they changed their dogma from Catholic to Orthodox and they soon became hellenized. His family's name in Koper was Vitori or Vittori. His mother's family, the Gonemi, had been listed in the Libro d'Oro since 1606. In 1802 Ioannis Kapodistrias founded an important scientific and social progress organisation in Corfu, the "National Medical Association", of which he was an energetic member. In 1799, when Corfu was briefly occupied by the forces of Russia and Turkey, Kapodistrias was appointed chief medical director of the military hospital.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populat...ece_and_Turkey
    The 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey was based upon religious identity, and involved the Greek Orthodox citizens of Turkey and the Muslim citizens of Greece. It was a major compulsory population exchange, or agreed mutual expulsion.
    The "Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations" was signed at Lausanne, Switzerland, on the 30th January 1923, by the governments of Greece and Turkey. It involved approximately 2 million people, most of whom were forcibly made refugees and de jure denaturalized from their homelands.

    The criteria for the population exchange was not excusively confined to ethnicity or mother language, but on religion as well. That is why the Karamanlides (Greek: Καραμανλήδες; Turkish: Karamanlılar), or simply Karamanlis, who were a Turkish-speaking (while they employed the Greek alphabet to write it) Greek Orthodox people of unclear origin and were deported from their native regions of Karaman and Cappadocia in Central Anatolia to Greece as well. On the other hand, Cretan Muslims who were part of the exchange were re-settled mostly on the Aegean coast of Turkey, in areas formerly inhabited by Christian Greeks. Populations of Greek descent can still be found in the Pontos, remnants of the former Greek population that converted to Islam in order to escape the persecution and later deportation. Though these two groups are of ethnic Greek descent, they speak Turkish as a mother language and are very cautious to identify themselves as Greeks, due to the hostility of the Turkish state and neighbours towards anything Greek.

    1914 document showing the official figures from the 1914 population census of the Ottoman Empire. The total population (sum of all the millets) was given at 20,975,345, and the Greek population was given at 1,792,206.

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    Greek Refugee Settlement
    Source: “Crossing the Aegean: The Consequences of the 1923 Greek-Turkish Population Exchange” by Renee Hirschon, 2003, page 181.


    “A Concise History of Greece” by Richard Clogg, 1992, page 105


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(Greece)
    Macedonia (Greece) - Population2,625,681 (2006 Estimate)
    Regional identity
    Macedonians (Greek: Μακεδόνες, Makedónes) is the term by which ethnic Greeks originating from the region are known. Macedonians came to be of particular importance during the Balkan Wars when they were a minority population inside the Ottoman province of Macedonia. The Macedonians now have a strong regional identity, manifested both in Greece and by emigrant groups in the Greek diaspora. This sense of identity has been highlighted in the context of the Macedonian naming dispute after the break-up of Yugoslavia, in which Greece objects to its northern neighbour calling itself the "Republic of Macedonia", since explicit self-identification as Macedonian is a matter of national pride for many Greeks. A characteristic expression of this attitude could be seen when Greek newspapers headlined a declaration by Prime Minister Kostas Karamanlis at a meeting of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg in January 2007, saying that "I myself am a Macedonian, and another two and a half million Greeks are Macedonians."
    The exact size of the linguistic and ethnic minority groups of Macedonia is officially unknown, as Greece has not conducted a census on the question of mother tongue since 1951.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)
    Macedonian Greeks are ethnic Greeks who self-identify regionally as "Macedonians" (Greek: Μακεδόνες, Makedónes). They form the majority of the region's population (~51%). They number approximately 2,500,000 and live almost entirely in Greek Macedonia. The Greek Macedonian population is mixed, with indigenous and a large influx of Greek refugees descending from Asia Minor, Pontic Greeks, and East Thracian Greeks in the early 20th century. This is due to the population exchange between Greece and Turkey, during which over 1.2 million Christian refugees from Turkey were settled in Greece, 638,000 of whom were settled in Macedonia. Smaller Greek minorities exist in Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia, although their numbers are difficult to ascertain. In official census results, only 86 persons declared themselves Greeks in Bulgarian Macedonia (Blagoevgrad Province) in 2001, out of a total of 3,408 in all Bulgaria; while 442 described themselves as Greeks in the 2002 census in the Republic of Macedonia.

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    The Existence of a Macedonian Minority in Greece!



    1.8% ethnic Macedonians in Greece.
    1.5% Albanians in Greece.
    1.4% Turks in Greece.
    0.9% Pomaks in Greece.
    0.9% Roms (Gypsies) in Greece.
    3.1% Other nationality in Greece.
    90.4% Greeks in Greece.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece
    And this are the statistics in Wikipedia.
    93.8% Greek,
    4.3% Albanian,
    1.9% others

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    Good to know.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa
    Mother Teresa (26 August 1910 – 5 September 1997), born Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu

    Mother Teresa (Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu) // In Aromanian "Boiagi".
    [Boiagi's are a wellknown Aromanian family originally from Albania. Her father Nikolla Boiagi was aromanian.]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aromanians

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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Greece



    before you mention bible
    read again and again the original
    it is written in greeks
    and says in fillipi and thesaloniki they stayed among greeks
    meaning that makedonia and greeks are the same


    read bible carefully

  24. #124
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Greece



    first the city names

    acts 16 11 Neapolis-> newcity
    acts 15 11 samothrce
    acts 15 12 Philippoi
    acts 17 1 Amfipolis
    acts 17 1 Apollonia
    acts 17 1 Thessaloniki not Solunu you ......
    acts 17 13 Beroia


    now 2nd lets see people names

    Lydia and Jason both Greek Names


    and finnaly WHO ARE THE MAKEDONIANS

    ACTS 17 12 THE VIP OF GREEK WOMAN, AND FROM GREEK MAN NOT A FEW


    SO IN MAKEDONIA ACCORDING TO PAUL LIVE THE GREEKS


    MORE????

    ACTS 20 1,2 HE WENT OUT TO MAKEDONIA, SO HE ENTERED GREECE, SO MAKEDONIA IS GREEK

    ACTS 20 21 TO JUDIANS AND GREEKS (MAKEDONIA CITIZENS)


    WHAT ELSE YOUR PROPAGANDA SPEAK
    YOU SAY PAUL SHOW A MAN MAKEDON AND CLAIM MAKEDONIA IS NOT GREEK
    AND BEHIND SAYS THAT THAT MAKEDONIA DWELT BY GREEKS

    SO YOU TAKE ONLY HALF AND MAKE SPAM AND YOU DONT ALL BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS AGAINST YOU
    I LEAVE THE OTHERS OF THE FORUM TO JUDGE YOU
    SPAMMER

    BESIDES HE WENT O THESSALONIKI NOT SOLUNU NOT SKOPJE
    CAUSE IF WANTED TO GO THERE, PAUL PROBABLY SHOULD SEEN A SLAV MAN TO CALL HIM TO GO TO SKOPJE,

    hAHAHAHAHA
    YOUR PROPAGANDA IS JUST A HOAX WITH NO BASIS
    YOU TELL ALWAYS THE HALF TRUE AND DIVERSE IT TO LIE,
    AND WHEN THE TRUTH REVIELS THEN YOU STOP AND YOU JUMP TO ANOTHER LIE

    hAHAHAHAHAHA

    BESIDES LOOK AT STRABO

    ΕΣΤΙΝ ΟΥΝ ΕΛΛΑΣ ΚΑΙ Η ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ

    ACCEPT IT MAKEDONIA EPIROS CRETE PELOPONESE STEREA CYPRUS ARE PARTS OF GREEK NATION
    AS BAYERN IS A PART OF GERMANY
    AS LOMBARDIA OF ITALY
    AS BRETAGNE OF FRANCE

    GREECE HAD ALSO OTHER PARTS THAT TODAY BELONG TO OTHERS
    LIKE MAGNA GRECIA (SOUTH ITALY AND SICILY)
    IONIA (MINOR ASIA)
    THRACE AND WEST BLACK SEA
    AND PONTUS SOUTH BLACK SEA

    EVEN TODAY LIVE GREEKS THERE BUT THAT AREAS ARE LOST

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
    Paul the Apostle, also called the Apostle Paul, Paul of Tarsus, and Saint Paul, (Ancient Greek: Σαούλ (Saul), Σαῦλος (Saulos), and Παῦλος (Paulos); Latin: Paulus or Paullus; Hebrew: שאול התרסי‎ Šaʾul HaTarsi (Saul of Tarsus) (c. 5 - c. 67 ), was of the tribe of Benjamin. He was a zealous Jew, who persecuted the early followers of Jesus Christ. However after his "Resurrection experience", he began calling himself a Christian and referred to himself as the "Apostle to the Gentiles".


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaloniki
    Thessaloniki (Greek: Θεσσαλονίκη, IPA: [θesaloˈnici]), Thessalonica or Salonica is the second-largest city in Greece and the capital of the region of Macedonia. Its honorific title is Συμπρωτεύουσα (Symprotévousa), literally "co-capital", a reference to its historical status as the Συμβασιλεύουσα (Symvasilévousa) or "co-reigning" city of the Byzantine Empire, alongside Constantinople.
    The city was founded around 315 BC by the King Cassander of Macedon, on or near the site of the ancient town of Therma and 26 other local villages. He named it after his wife Thessalonike, a half-sister of Alexander the Great (Thessalo-nikē means the "Thessalian victory") (See Battle of Crocus field). It was an autonomous part of the Kingdom of Macedon. After the fall of the kingdom of Macedon in 168 BC, Thessalonica became a city of the Roman Republic. It grew to be an important trade-hub located on the Via Egnatia; it facilitated trade between Europe and Asia. The city became the capital of one of the four Roman districts of Macedonia.


    What people lived in Thessalonica when Paul the Apostle arrived there year (c. 5 - c. 67 )? Macedonians and maybe Romans, no others are mentioned there at that time. If Javans (Greeks) they mean Macedonians.
    By the word “Javan” the Hebrews designate not only the Greeks but the: Macedonians, and the whole of that tract which is divided by the Hellespont, from Asia Minor as far as Illyricum.

    There is two places mentioned Macedonia and Greece, why?
    If its the same why mention Macedonia and Greece, instead of Greece only, was it not the same place?
    Since when did the Ancient Macedonians get along with rest of the occupied Greeks (Greeks were occupied by Ancient Macedonians at that time before Romans conquered them).

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