Macedonians

Kral or Kralj was not used by Macedonians, only Tsar. (Krali or Krale Marko)
If anyone are claiming something then there must be a source. No source then its irrelevant.
Notice: Marko Mrnjavčević not Marko Kraljević.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Marko
According to the local legends, Marko's mother was Evrosiya (Евросия), sister of the Bulgarian voivoda Momchil, who ruled territories in the Rhodope Mountains.

Serbian Kings got mixed heritage, partly Bulgarian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Vlastimirovi%C4%87


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Balkans850.png

The Sclavenes lived in Serbian land by early 500 A.D. (No Serbs before 500 A.D.)


The "Sklavinias" in the Balkans, 7th–8th centuries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaviniae




Sklavinia(i) (Greek: Σκλαβινίαι, Latin: SCLAVINIAE) was the Greek term for the Slav settlements (area, territory) which were initially out of Byzantine control and independent. The term may be interpreted as "Slav lands" in Byzantium. The term is derived from the name Sclaveni, which was used to describe all Slavic peoples with whom the Byzantine Empire came in contact. The Sclaviniae of the Byzantine Empire eventually became South Slavic nations:
  • The Serbs became allies to the Byzantine Emperor (hypekooi) and eventually became independent.
  • The Bulgars fought the Byzantine Empire and were through a peace treaty after 680 recognized as an independent state, they subsequently merged with the Slavs in Eastern Balkans into the modern nation of Bulgarians.
 
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so Dejavu

you became Makedonian at 800 AD by geografical name of area

I was born Makedonian by blood in the area that took name by my people

your bondage is by land name

My bondage is by blood name

I have nothing against slavic
I have have friends in Bulgaria, have friends in Fyrom, have friends in Serbia,
they are slavic

in the time you are showing the map we were here under slavian occupation of either Dusan or Simeon or Samuel

But we Never change Languge or nationality

understand that

you are a Slavo-Makedonian that has nation birth at 8th century

I am Makedonian that has nation birthay at 8th century BC

I still speak different with south-central Greeks
Ι still use accusative instead of possitive
I still end the words with different ends
I still don't speak the modern 'koine' municipal language
I still don't speak when I go to Athens with my own dialect
but I force them to speak my language Here
we still have different sounds of L and R and T and A
as also Cretans do
But that is not a difference of language as you claim
Hesychius says the same about ancient Makedonians

now keep your land and name your nationality
cause 1500 years we did not became slavic why today?
you cant make me a slavic
I know my family from 1600 AD when we left old village to the new
and we were here and never slavic

nobody has the right to make me something different than what i am


you follow Dusan a foreigner, the king of Serbia
I resist Dusan

For you Dusan is Great
For me the Makedonian it was a Slavic invader

we are not the same understand that.

we always had differences with peloponese and atheneans, even today we speak different, but we were and we are all greeks,

I am a Greco-Makedonian
You are a Slavo-Makedonian (if you are)

One Word: PARANOIA
 
Kral or Kralj was not used by Macedonians, only Tsar. (Krali or Krale Marko)
If anyone are claiming something then there must be a source. No source then its irrelevant.

DejaVu
That is the problem that Macedonians Serbian king Marko Kraljevic (as Mark Prince) posing as Macedonians named Marko Krale.

And not only him, I can give you a list.

And sources are as many as you like, what it means to ask the Macedonian sites and blogs on Eupedia in Cyrillic.

Here is just an example of another site (who knows Macedonian can find as he want):

www.panoptikum.com.mk/2009-11-08-15-10-52/koreni-senki-odeci/853-2010-04-17-20-25-28.html

За Марко Крале се смета дека е една од најконтроверзните личности во македонската средновековна историја.


It really makes no sense, I say there is no such policy that something can justify.
 
How yes no

it is not that easy
maybe a part, a small percentage

but we The Greeks-Makedonians never went so up to Skopje
never, they were the Paeonians mostly Allies
later with roman byzantine and ottoman maybe
But it is most obvius that they came when slavic Kingdoms were strong, very strong that occupied half Greece,
we know that the land of Bardar was never ours
did you ever hear 1 Greek to say Skopje was Greek????
no
simply a treaty when we were small country and nation and with no national allies,
(we had some protection from Some Powers, I dont deny)

that has to do with Turkish land when they were leaving,
that treaty is only in pappers
besides Germans and Austrian are relatives are they 1 country? No
then why to make a country that has bad memmories,
leave my brothers the south Greeks, and unite with Slavic-Makedonians (if they are my brothers)
whose Heroes are my enemies,
Understand that, we Became different,
Albanians and Greeks have almost same DNA in a Big %
are we the same nation?
no thousands years before we change or cut,
with south italy we are same also genetic, are we same nation today?
with Turks in west minor asia and Pontus black sea have 50% same DNA and also history and nationality until 1923,
but today we cut, they are other nation,
in earlier times when seljuk turks came
they went to Taursus, the first islamization area
so in Greek when a man is turning to islam we dont say he became muslim, we say he became Turk (Taursus religion)
that is a cut of nationality, a schisma, an expel,
probably with Slavomakedonians there is a small DNA relations, wich became bigger at 1948 and 1916-1920 with exchanges and exiles and immigrations,
but today we are tottaly different,
For example Dejavu's Hero Yane Sandasky for me he was a famous fighter rabel etc, but he hunt my people,
how can i consider him a Hero of my own,


How Yes NO
look at that map
423px-Byzantine_Macedonia_10%2045CE.svg.png


a stupid ruler named Makedonia today Bulgaria

does that make a sense?

so by that map today Bulgarians can claim that they are the Makedonians

does that make sence???

tomorrow a politician may change name of Frieshland to Austria, will you change nationality, in papers yes, but not in soul, or blood,
the same is here,
if I write more about my village history then Dejavu will keep spaming
so i stop here
 
Besides European Union accepts the different nationalities, and Languages,

and about Paranoia DejaVu
thank you
look at your own Paranoia and keep spamming mania,

thank you I will not Buy
I am a poor original Makedonian Who was Converted To Christianity and today I try to expel it

I was never Slavonized or became Turkish, or muslim

for that I have to ask you Name your Nationality First By Blood and After by Land

Besides ALL SERBIAN GREEKS BULGARIANS AND ALBANIANS ARE FAKE TO YOU


one WORD LUNATIC
 
yes, but it may happen that two of you are genetic cousins...
so who would be right than? and would it matter?

Lol, it would be funny if iapetoc tested slavic R1a or G2a.
I would love to see his faces when he gets the news. :)
 
We will fight with Greeks because they are our only historic and age old enemies. Our complete Macedonian national history is full with fights against Greeks. There is no fight with Bulgarians and Serbs recorded in the Macedonian history. Bulgarians and Serbs have respected the national rights of the Macedonians in the middle ages, and it was only Greeks that were destroying our national spirit and were de-nationalizing us. They even to the current day are chasing us away from our native fireplaces, and are reminding us that we have an age old obligation to chase the un-invited guests from our grand father’s and great grand-father’s lands.

European Union - All unite for peace.


I find these two posts amusing and contradictory (y)


When you become a new country like FYROM did in 1991, you don't come off the start of your independence with land claims against bulgaria and greece, two of your neighbours, a civil war with albanians and call serbs a fake country. You only look for trouble, and its not surprising that FYROM is also the poorest country in the region either, even behind albania where they have mobsters ruling that country. Skopje is using the age old political trick of pushing nationalism sentiment to avoid getting attention on the real problems on FYROM, the economy. The more poor a country is the more nationalism you see eminating from it, the same goes with albania or anyone else.

You don't need a PH.D to know the ancient macedons were greeks, you just need to look at their accomplishments and what they were pushing to shape the world at the time, it was the hellenic idea, not a slavic idea which were not even in the balkans at the time.
 
dejavu

slavic people enter at 600 AD
since then they have a home country in balkans,
we were at the Greek Makedonia from 800 BC 1500 Before of you,
we never went to Skopje or even the Natural border Iron Gates of Axios river (Bardar demir kapi) only a few kilometres from Ευγελεια (Gevgelija) but who cares, for few km

the only one that can say that we took their lands is the Paeonians the Bithyni the Vrygians (Phrygians) and the Pieri people,
Besides ancient makedonians use same sound and tones with Vrygians and have a rich common vocabulary (isotones) (hesychius of alexandria)
all these tribes were ancient Thracians,
are you a Thracian???

but the Paeoni took place in olympic games from 330 BC
and have a statue at Olympia

another nation was The Bardari Huns that were settled in Αμφαξίτις (today Skopje valley) before the famous slavic invasions and Bulgarian

Besites the 1rst Greeks that settled in today Greek Makedonia was the Bottiaioi (βοττιαιοι) ατ 1100 BC from crete,
 
Besides ALL SERBIAN GREEKS BULGARIANS AND ALBANIANS ARE FAKE TO YOU

For me they are because of claiming wrong history.
If I ruled I would not recognize any of those countries (if they dont accept the real history).
 
I find these two posts amusing and contradictory (y)


When you become a new country like FYROM did in 1991, you don't come off the start of your independence with land claims against bulgaria and greece, two of your neighbours, a civil war with albanians and call serbs a fake country. You only look for trouble, and its not surprising that FYROM is also the poorest country in the region either, even behind albania where they have mobsters ruling that country. Skopje is using the age old political trick of pushing nationalism sentiment to avoid getting attention on the real problems on FYROM, the economy. The more poor a country is the more nationalism you see eminating from it, the same goes with albania or anyone else.

You don't need a PH.D to know the ancient macedons were greeks, you just need to look at their accomplishments and what they were pushing to shape the world at the time, it was the hellenic idea, not a slavic idea which were not even in the balkans at the time.

Well said, throughout.
 
The Greek History. Continuity of fakness.

And here is your Fake Greek enlightenment. The Fake Greeks.


And the Greeks?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lbanian_origin
Greeks (of Arvanite origin)
Andreas Miaoulis
Markos Botsaris
Laskarina Bouboulina
Nikolaos Krieziotis
Xadziyiannis Mexis
Pavlos Kountouriotis - First Greek President
Kitsos Tzavelas
Georgios Kountouriotis - Prime Minister of Greece under King Otto.
Antonios Kriezis
Dimitrios Voulgaris - He was thus one of the greatest exponents of the Modern Greek Enlightenment.
Athanasios Miaoulis
Diomidis Kiriakos
Theodoros Pangalos
Petros Voulgaris
Alexandros Diomidis
Nikos Engonopoulos
Ieronymos II - Archbishop of Athens and All Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_of_Greece (GERMAN)
Otto Frederick, prince of Bavaria or Othon, king of Greece (Greek: θων, Βασιλεςτςλλάδος, Óthon, Vasiléfs tis Elládos; 1 June 1815 – 26 July 1867) was made the first modern King of Greece in 1832 under the Convention of London, whereby Greece became a new independent kingdom under the protection of the Great Powers (the United Kingdom, France and the Russian Empire).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kolettis (VLACH)
Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: ΙωάννηςΚωλέττης) (1773[citation needed] - 1847) was a Greek politician of Vlach origin who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kapodistrias (Venetian)
Count Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias (Greek: ΚόμηςΙωάννηςΑντώνιοςΚαποδίστριας – Komis Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias, in Italian: Giovanni Capo d'Istria, Conte Capo d'Istria, and in Russian: графИоаннКаподистрияGraf Ioann Kapodistriya) (February 11, 1776 – October 9, 1831) was a Greek diplomat of the Russian Empire and later first head of state of independent Greece.
Ioannis Kapodistrias was born in Corfu,(Κέρκυρα/Kerkyra in Greek), one of the Ionian Islands, which at the time of his birth were a possession of Venice . He studied medicine, philosophy and the law at Padua, in Italy. When he was 21 years old, in 1797, he started his medical practice as a doctor in his native island of Corfu. He was throughout his life a deeply liberal thinker and a true democrat, though born and raised as a nobleman. An ancestor of Kapodistrias' had been created a conte (count) by Charles Emmanuel II, Duke of Savoy, and the title was later (1679) inscribed in the Libro d'Oro of the Corfu nobility; the title originates from Capodistria, a city on the eastern shore of the Gulf of Venice, now Koper in Slovenia and the place of origin of Kapodistrias' family before they moved to Corfu in the 13th century where they changed their dogma from Catholic to Orthodox and they soon became hellenized. His family's name in Koper was Vitori or Vittori. His mother's family, the Gonemi, had been listed in the Libro d'Oro since 1606. In 1802 Ioannis Kapodistrias founded an important scientific and social progress organisation in Corfu, the "National Medical Association", of which he was an energetic member. In 1799, when Corfu was briefly occupied by the forces of Russia and Turkey, Kapodistrias was appointed chief medical director of the military hospital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kavalliotis (Aromanian)
Theodore Kavalliotis (Greek: Θεόδωρος Αναστασίου Καβαλλιώτης, Romanian: Teodor Kavalioti, 1718 – 11 August 1789) was a Greek Orthodox priest, teacher and a figure of the Greek Enlightenment. He is also known for having drafted an Aromanian-Greek-Albanian dictionary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigas_Feraios (Aromanian)
Rigas Feraios or Rigas Velestinlis (Greek: Ρήγας Βελεστινλής-Φεραίος, born Αντώνιος Κυριαζής, Antonios Kyriazis; also known as Κωνσταντίνος Ρήγας, Konstantinos or Constantine Rhigas; Serbian: Рига од Фере, Riga od Fere; 1757—June 13, 1798) was a Greek writer and revolutionary, an eminent figure of the Greek Enlightenment, remembered as a Greek national hero, the first victim of the uprising against the Ottoman Empire and a forerunner of the Greek War of Independence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ent_Aromanians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites

Just speak Greek and have Greek name then you belong to the ancient Greeks, easy and simple.
 
The Greek Europeans?

Ann Hum Biol. 2010 Jul 29.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20666704

Abstract
Background: The HLA polymorphism is a powerful genetic tool to study population origins. By analysing allele frequencies and haplotypes in different populations, it is possible to identify ethnic groups and establish the genetic relationships among them. Aim: The Berber (endogenous Tunisians) HLA class I and class II genotypes were analysed and compared with those of Mediterranean and Sub-Saharan African communities using genetic distances, Neighbour-Joining dendrograms, correspondence and haplotype analysis. Subjects and methods: One hundred and five unrelated Berbers were typed for HLA class I (A, B) and class II (DRB1, DQB1) gene alleles using reverse dot-blot hybridization. Results: High frequencies of A*0201 (24.76%), A*3402 (22.38%) and B*44 (32.85%) alleles were recorded for Berbers, the highest recorded for Mediterranean and North African populations. This study shows a close relatedness of Tunisian Berbers to other Tunisians, North Africans and Iberians. Conclusion: The apparent relatedness of Tunisian Berbers to present-day (North African) Tunisians, Algerians and Moroccans suggests that the Arab invasion of North Africa (7(th)-11(th) centuries AD) did not significantly impact the genetic makeup of North Africans. Furthermore, Tunisian Berbers appear to be closely related to Iberians (Spaniards and Basques), indicating that the 7(th) century AD gene flow of invaders was low in Iberians and that the main part of their genetic pool came after the Northward Saharan migration, when hyper-arid conditions were established in Sahara (before 6000 BC). Other studied populations belong to the old Mediterranean substratum, which has been present in the area since pre-Neolithic times. This study indicates a higher proportion of Iberian than Arab ancestry in Tunisian Berbers, which is of value in evaluating the evolutionary history of present-day Tunisians. Greeks seem to share genetic HLA features (Chr 6) with Sub-Saharans. The relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharans has been confirmed by other studies based on chromosome 7 genetic markers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260506?dopt=Abstract.
Villena 2001 claims that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples existing in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before arrival of the "Mycaenian Greeks",Greeks are genetically related to sub-Saharans... Hajjeja 2005 also claims that "Our study shows that the Greeks are separate from other Mediterranean populations and tend to cluster with Sub-Saharans (Figs. 2 and 3). This result confirms the Sub-Saharan origin of Greeks". Di Giacomo 2003 reported for Y Hg A found in Mitilini-Greece. Al-Zahery 2003 also separates the Macedonians/Europeans from the Greeks.....or vice versa.
HLA%20genes%20in%20Southern%20Tunisians%204a.jpg


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16473309
HLA genes in Southern Tunisians (Ghannouch area) and their Relationship with other Mediterraneans.
A. Hajjej a, S. Hmida a,*, H. Kaabi a,A. Dridi a,A. Jridi a, A. El Gaa1ed b, K. Boukef a
a National Blood Transfusion Centre, Tunis, Tunisia
b Laboratory of Immunogenetics, Department of Biology, University of Tunis, El Manar

Y-Chromosome Haplotypes in the Greek–Turkish Area
http://www.springerlink.com/content/h347402u768310m3/

Measuring European Population Stratification with Microarray Genotype Data
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1852743/
 
Yavanas Not the Greeks.
http://satyavidya.com/yavanas.htm

Yavanas are often thought to have been Greeks by Western scholars. However, their existance does not seem that important in the ancient world, and there are many factors that show them as non-Greeks.

For a start, we note Kala-yavana, the "Dark Yavana" of the Mahabharata, who fought with Duryodhana. Whilst it may refer to his dark powers, it is possible this Dark-Yavana is of dark complexion, and perhaps pertaining to Africa - or ancient Egypt.

The two dates for Krishna are 3000BC and no later than 1500BC. So, it is less likely to be that Yavanas are the Greeks.

Moreover, Panini refers to the Yavanas around 600BC, or perhaps earlier. They appear to be related to the Kambojas, since he mentions they both were condemned to shave their heads. It shows them as related peoples. The Puranas make them decendants of the Turvashas, peoples of South-Western India.

This shows that the Yavanas were peoples that shaved their heads. It was hence, not the ancient Greeks. But, we do know for a fact, that the ancient Egyptians - an ancient culture existing at the same time as the Vedic and a Sister-culture - the Rulers shaved their heads and wore wigs, whilst the priests also shaved their heads!

We also note the Egyptians called themselves as Kam peoples, which perhaps has some relation to the Khambojas, and therefore, the Yavanas. Kam meant black - cognate to the later Kaal of the Hindus, meaning the same. The term Kala-yavana also hence comes to mind.

Are the Egyptians the Yavanas mentioned in the early Indian texts?

If so, the connection in the ancient city of Alexandria, in which Hindu and Western contact were made, could account for the famed Yavanacharya, the great Yavana-astrologer who studied Vedic astrology! He could have been an Egyptian from this region. Takshashila, in Western India, which had existed from 700BC was a University province, also attracted students from Greece and Persia, so the scholar tells us. But, what about Greece? Could not have an earlier connection between the Hindu and Egyptian schools have arisen?

Egyptians are more likely to have, and had a closer and esoteric cultural links with the Vedic than the Greeks did, and from earlier times.

The British scholar is possessed about having Greeks in India since god knows when, but does not mention the Egyptian connections with India! It is hence much more likely that the Egyptians were the Yavana peoples, referred to in Mahabharata and Ramayana, as Vedic peoples.

The Egyptians, as noted were much closer than the Greeks, and had closer relations. The land of the dead was called Manu - the same as the Vedic forefather and name for Yama, the god of the deceased, who was formally Manu.

There are other things. The Egyptian word for Pyramid was 'Mer'. Meru is the name of the pyramidal architectual style the Hindus build their temples after. Meru is the abode of Svargaloka (Heaven) in the Himalayas, and hence all temples are built to resemble Meru in this style. The Greeks did not build in such styles.

The Egyptian Sun and Supreme God is Ra, and is similar to Ram (Raam), the ancient Vedic Sun-God and avatara. Ram itself, was probably a much earlier term. Interestingly also, the syllable "Ram" (short 'a', not as aa in Raam), is mentioned (Brihadaranyaka Up.V.12) by Yajnavalkya as the syllable for Prana, relating to Food. Now, the Manipura Chakra has Ram (Rang, the bija-mantric form) as it's mantra, and relates to the Digestive system, thus food. Manipura is also the City of Gemstones chakra, relating to Delight or Bliss, which comes from Ram (pleasure, bliss).

Ram as the basis of Raam, also means the same - delight or bliss, and here as the Fire-chakra, relates to the Fire of the Sun, and hence an ancient Vedic term for the Sun as Ra, Ram or Raam. Ra also means 'To Rule' in Sanskrit.

It appears Raam as the Supreme God, must have come from a Vaishnava influence in India. Hence, the Egyptians as Yavanas, must have had a Brighu or Bhargava influence through the ancient S.Indian Sri-Vaishnava tradition - which also uses symbols, not unlike the pictographs of ancient Egypt.

To recollect, Yavana means both "fast moving" and "youthful". It is hence also related to the Bhargava seers, through Chyavana Bhargava (also called Atharvan), whose name is not only close to Yavana, but also in the Rig Veda, has his youth restored to him by the Ashwin gods!

This links the Atharvans or mystical Bhargava sages, known to practice abhichara or mysticism, with the Yavana peoples also - at least as their Gurus. It is known the Egyptians had Bhargava seers, for their Venus-based astrology and architecture;- the "Meru" or Pyramidal style of architecture in India (and indeed Vastu or architecture itself), was founded by Ushana Kavya (Asuramaya, 'Guru of the Demons'), of whom was known as Imenhotep in Egypt. Here we also link Ra, Rama and the Sri Vaishnavas*.

Interestingly, in Rig Veda, King Sudas is called "Paijavana" (VII.18.21-25), 'Son of Pijavana'. Pijavana means also (like Yavana), 'one who speeds' or a fast mover. Yavana is hence here, an adaptation of Javana, and a Vedic term referring to any great monarch, or peoples that migrated fast defeating others, or were driven from India. In this sense, the Yavanas as Egyptians, could be such a peoples, that were driven from India in Vedic times - as most certainly seems to be the case.

Here however, we see that Yavana is a term that began in India itself, for the Vedic Aryans themselves - not foreigners! But, they do appear as peoples related to ancient Indians, or Vedic Indians - which predates the Greeks, so again, points to Egypt.

In regards to the Egyptian embalming practice, we also link this with the Bhargava Ruler, King Vena, brother of Asuramaya (Imenhotep). A materialistic King, and whom Venus is named after in Rome - Vena's body was said to have been preserved as immortal by his mother, through various practices. Later, the Seers rubbed his legs, and from it were born Nishada and Prithu (King of whom the earth was so named).

Another King - Nimi of the Videha or East-Indian solar dynasty, also had his body immortalised through ancient practices. Later Videha Royals - such as Buddha, for example - built funery mounds (Stupas), which also show the idea of ancient Tombs.

Many Vedic demons as Shambara, as noted in Rig Veda, also resemble the Egyptians, as the Rig Veda criticizes them for hiding their wealth in mountains (rock-cut tombs?). The later E.Indian Ahom ruler also build Pyramidal burial mounds.

Indian texts also describe the Yavanas as great Astrologers and Vimana-makers (makers of flying vehicles), which cannot be the Greeks. But - could very well be the Egyptians - of whom were more or less a Vedic Colony or Centre to the West - and the forefathers and teachers of the Greeks, as is well-known!

Many have also stated that the abode of Asuramaya (Ushanas Kavya, Imenhotep) as Romakapura in the texts to be Rome, and the Raumyas to be Romans. However - could it not refer to the Rama or Ra-worshipping Egyptians? Raumyas referring to "people of Ra"?

It would furthur equate Egypt as a Western Vedic Centre of ancient times, and also equate them as being the Yavanas, of great astrological fame and renoun.
It is curious that Manu mentions the peoples or tribes of Asia - Shakas (Schthians), Chinas (Chinese), Kiratas (Tibetans and peoples of Central Asia), Pahlavas (Persians) - but to equate the Yavanas he mentions as Greeks, does not conform! Why are the Greeks the only significance to Hindus and mentioned with Asian tribes?

It is more likely they were the closer-related and closer culture-sharing Egyptians - just as Kirata (Tibetan) and China (Chinese and E.Asian) peoples he mentions, are well-known to have (also) shared Vedic cultural relationships, and the Chinese (like the Egyptians, or "Yavanas?"), shared their arts, sciences etc. which they preserved and cherished.

Again - the Greeks and Romans shared a less tightly and uncivilised and hence 'non-Aryan' form of civilisation, compared to the Egyptians or Chinese. I hence beleive them, if a Western peoples, to have been the Egyptians.

There is also more likelihood (since their culture, like China and SE Asia), shared closer terminology, gods and practices with the Vedic peoples - that they are mentioned in the ancient Hindu texts over the Greeks.

The Rig Veda, II.13.8, mentions a demonic king, Narmar, which may perhaps be Narmer, the first Pharoah of ancient Egypt. Vamana Purana mentions a Namar that fought with Maheshasura against the Goddess. This is only a possibility, but perhaps also, an historical mention.

This again links them with the E.Indian influence into SE Asia and China, which was previously noted, through Raja Nimi and the Solar Dynasty. Perhaps the Yavanas, or some of them, also became Buddhists like the Chinese and SE Asians did - and hence were referred to as Yavanas still around pre-Ashoka times as this also. Their Indic influences would then be contemporary with other lands as China and SE Asia, as Manu mentions.

Yavana then, perhaps meant them as "Western Vedic People", and Egypt was a deliberate "Western Takshashila" type centre set up, echoed later by the Greco-Roman influences (or borrowings) in Alexandria. Manu etc. hence mention them along with Asian peoples, as conforming to Vedic rights, although in the West - unlike (other) Western peoples.

Here, we speculate. However, as we see, there is little, - infact no evidence, that shows the Greeks as Yavanas. However, it makes Egypt appear closer to Indian and Vedic Dharma, and as Romakapura of the texts (remembering that Asuramaya who lived there founded Pyramidal Architecture - not a charactoristic of Rome).
 
οι υιοι Ιαυαν κατωκηασν τας Νησους εν Θαρσεις

(the sons of Iayan-Iavan dwell the Islands in Thracians)
later known as Ioninic- Ionians - Yunan

the sons of Iayan
Helleisas ->Hellenes or Helleians or Heleliras
Tharseis -> Thracians
Kitteim ?????
Dodanim - Dodona ancient Greek famous oracle (archegonus proto Greek by Strabo)

keep spreading .........

Genesis 10 3-4


Besides we are not Yavanas
But Yunan or Iayan or Iaian or Ionae - Iones -Ionic


Iapetus and Japheth


Besides Iapetus was worshiped in Crete, Arcadia peloponese, Cillikia (taursus) Anchiale
And in Phrygians Before they move to minor asia


Pausanias (8.27.15) writes:
As I have already related, the boundary between Megalopolis and Heraea is at the source of the river Buphagus. The river got its name, they say, from a hero called Buphagus, the son of Iapetus and Thornax. This is what they call her in Laconia also. They also say that Artemis shot Buphagus on Mount Pholoe because he attempted an unholy sin against her godhead. Buphagus is a tributary of the river Alpheus, Thornax is a mountain between Sparta and Sellasia, and Pholoe is a mountain between Arcadia and Elis.


Thank you You just prove another Historical evidence


OR EXCEPT SERBIAN ALBANIAN BULGARIAN GREECE, MAYBE THE BIBLE IS ALSO FAKE

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

:unsure::unsure:

Oh Olympians Please send the Cure to himOh Zeu please dont punish his Blasphemy
but send Athena to give the man Wisdom

:sad-2::sad-2:
 
Ofcourse you are not Yavanas.
The genetics shows you (modern greeks) are sub-saharan.
 
Bible information.

DANIEL 8:20-21
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calc...html?bcb=right
20. The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
By the word “Javan” the Hebrews designate not only the Greeks but the: Macedonians, and the whole of that tract which is divided by the Hellespont, from Asia Minor as far as Illyricum. Therefore the meaning is — the king of Greece.


http://www.openbible.info/

Acts 16:9 A vision appeared to Paul in the night. There was a man of Macedonia standing, begging him, and saying, "Come over into Macedonia and help us."

Acts 16:10 When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go out to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to preach the Good News to them.
Acts 16:12 and from there to Philippi, which is a city of Macedonia, the foremost of the district, a Roman colony. We were staying some days in this city.
Acts 18:5 But when Silas and Timothy came down from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ.
Acts 19:21 Now after these things had ended, Paul determined in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, "After I have been there, I must also see Rome."
Acts 19:22 Having sent into Macedonia two of those who served him, Timothy and Erastus, he himself stayed in Asia for a while.
Acts 20:1 After the uproar had ceased, Paul sent for the disciples, took leave of them, and departed to go into Macedonia.
Acts 20:3 When he had spent three months there, and a plot was made against him by Jews as he was about to set sail for Syria, he determined to return through Macedonia.
Romans 15:26 For it has been the good pleasure of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor among the saints who are at Jerusalem.
1 Corinthians 16:5 But I will come to you when I have passed through Macedonia, for I am passing through Macedonia.
2 Corinthians 1:16 and by you to pass into Macedonia, and again from Macedonia to come to you, and to be sent forward by you on my journey to Judea.
2 Corinthians 2:13 I had no relief for my spirit, because I didn't find Titus, my brother, but taking my leave of them, I went out into Macedonia.
2 Corinthians 7:5 For even when we had come into Macedonia, our flesh had no relief, but we were afflicted on every side. Fightings were outside. Fear was inside.
2 Corinthians 8:1 Moreover, brothers, we make known to you the grace of God which has been given in the assemblies of Macedonia;
2 Corinthians 9:2 for I know your readiness, of which I boast on your behalf to them of Macedonia, that Achaia has been prepared for a year past. Your zeal has stirred up very many of them.
2 Corinthians 11:9 When I was present with you and was in need, I wasn't a burden on anyone, for the brothers, when they came from Macedonia, supplied the measure of my need. In everything I kept myself from being burdensome to you, and I will continue to do so.
Philippians 4:15 You yourselves also know, you Philippians, that in the beginning of the Good News, when I departed from Macedonia, no assembly shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving but you only.
1 Thessalonians 1:7 so that you became an example to all who believe in Macedonia and in Achaia.
1 Thessalonians 1:8 For from you the word of the Lord has been declared, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith toward God has gone out; so that we need not to say anything.
1 Thessalonians 4:10 for indeed you do it toward all the brothers who are in all Macedonia. But we exhort you, brothers, that you abound more and more; 1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I was going into Macedonia, stay at Ephesus that you might command certain men not to teach a different doctrine,

If Greece is same as Macedonia why dont they use the name Greece?



Bible Study Lesson for Acts 20:1-6: Through Macedonia and Greece

Acts chapter 20 can be broken up into two short and one long section. Verses 1-6 briefly describes Paul's travels in Macedonia and Greece. Verses 7-12 describes the story of how a young man named Eutychus was raised from the dead. Verses 13-38 describes Paul's emotional farewell to the elders from Ephesus.

Read Acts 20:1. Paul, remember, is currently on his third missionary journey. { Hand out books with the third missionary journey maps. Ask them to find Ephesus on their maps } My commentary said Paul had four main things he wanted to accomplish: 1) Leave Ephesus; 2) preach in Troas on his way to Macedonia { Ask the group to find Troas on their maps }; 3) meet Titus at Troas with a report from Corinth. This is based on 2 Corinthians 2:12-13; and 4) continue collecting an offer for the church in Judea. This is based on 1 Corinthians 16:1-4, 2 Corinthians 8:1-4. The Jerusalem church, at this time, may have been poverty stricken either because of famine or because of persecution.

Read Acts 20:2-3. Luke does not give us specifics about Paul's travel through Macedonia into Greece, but it is believed that the three months spent in Greece was in Corinth. { Ask group to look at their maps again and trace Paul's estimated path from Ephesus to Corinth } My commentary said that these three months were probably the winter months, when it would not have been safe to sail. It is during his time in Corinth that he would have received the collection for the relief of the Judean Christians. { Put up symbol of money bags on flannel board }

When Paul's three months are up, he wants to sail back to Syria (that is Antioch), but discovers a plot against him. My commentary proved this information: "The Jews were determined to take Paul's life; also, at this time he was carrying the offering for the Christians in Judea, so there would have been a temptation for theft as well. The port at Cenchrea would have provided a convenient place for Paul's enemies to detect him as he entered a ship to embark for Syria." So, at the last minute, it sounds like, he changes his mind and decides to retrace his route through Greece and Macedonia.

Why is Macedonia and Greece mentioned as separate countries/nationalities?
Because they are different nations/nationality since the beginning of existence.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament
The New Testament (Greek: Καινὴ Διαθήκη, Kainē Diathēkē) is the second major division of the Christian biblical canon, the first such division being the much longer Old Testament.
The common languages spoken by both Jews and Gentiles in the Holy Land at the time of Jesus were Aramaic, Koine Greek, and to a limited extent a colloquial dialect of Mishnaic Hebrew. All of the books that would eventually form the New Testament were written in Koine Greek, the vernacular dialect in the Roman provinces of the Eastern Mediterranean at the time. These books were later translated into other languages, most notably, Latin, Syriac, and Coptic. However, some of the Church Fathers imply or claim that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic. Nevertheless, the Gospel of Matthew known today was composed in Greek and is neither directly dependent upon nor a translation of a text in a Semitic language, though the citation of texts from the Old Testament demonstrates that the author of the Gospel of Matthew did know Hebrew.

DOES NOT SAY IT WAS WRITTEN BY ANY GREEK (Koine was not exclusive for Greeks only).
 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Why the Byzantine Empire was not a "Greek Empire"?[/FONT]

Within the last two centuries, we have seen the western literature label the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire) as "Greek Empire". Once again this is largely to the inventions and distortions of the western historians of the 19th century, who also falsely ascribed "Greek" ethnicity to the ancient Macedonians. These people took the fact that Greek was used as the language of the Empire and declared that the Empire was ruled by "Greeks", had "Greek" armies, "Greek" churches, and "Greek" art. In other words they spoke of the Byzantine Empire as a "Greek Empire", a view which had been completely supported and propagated by the modern Greeks as well.
Along with distorting the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians, the labeling of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire into "Greek" is one of the greatest fabrications of the western and modern Greek writers. Although it is true that Greek was used as the language of the Empire, that can not be taken as proof that the empire was "Greek". Latin was the original official language, imposed by the Romans who established and ruled the Roman Empire. In 395 AD when the Roman Empire split into western and eastern (Byzantine), Latin continued to be used as the official language but in time it was replaced by Greek as that language was already widely spoken among the Eastern Mediterranean nations as the main trade language. Yet the Emperors, the Church clergy, the army, and the artists, although they spoke Latin and Greek, where not exclusively of Greek ethnicity. The Empire was made up of many nationalities - Thracians, Macedonians, Illyrians, Bythinians, Carians, Phrygians, Armenians, Lydians, Galatians, Paphlagonians, Lycians, Syrians, Cilicians, Misians, Cappadocians, etc. The Greeks composed only a small portion of this multi-ethnic Empire and evidence shows that they did not posses much of the power either, for we know exactly who were the Byzantine Emperors, and we know they were not ethnic Greeks.

The earlier Byzantine Emperors were Romans but in time people of different ethnic backgrounds ruled this multi-ethnic empire. It is known that the empire reached its zenith while it was ruled by the Macedonians while the Macedonian Dynasty was on power for almost two centuries. Other dynasties that ruled were the Syrian, Armenian, Phrygian (Amorian), and other emperors were of various nationalities. Having in mind the ethnic diversity of the empire, the Church clergy, the army, and the artists, also came from the many different nationalities, and were not exclusively ethnic Greeks. The Byzantine historians often speak of "Macedonian army", "Thracian army", "Roman army". The Thracians, Macedonians, Illyrians, Bythinians, Carians, Phrygians, Armenians, Lydians, Galatians, Paphlagonians, Lycians, Syrians, Cilicians, Misians, Cappadocians, had to speak Latin and Greek in order to communicate among themselves, but they must have used their original languages to communicate within their own ethnic boundaries, which of course does not make them "Greeks".

Thus it is inaccurate to call the Byzantine Empire a "Greek Empire" and falsely ascribe its greatness to the Greeks, when in fact it is the non-Greeks who gave the greatest contribution in its progress. The inaccurate 19th century western historiography needs another major revision, just like the one it already went through regarding the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians. Otherwise it will continue to be unreliable and biased.
 

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