Macedonians

[blevins13]

yes indeed,

the most strong papper of anatolian farmers of colin Renfrew is Greece,
and also the most strange,
the lowest steppe admixture, yet deep ie,
and no one can explained it,

yet according the theories,
Renfrew fits most.

Rejecting Renfrew
then is south caucasos origin theories

Rejectin S Caucas
it is the Yamnaa expand and Vucedol-Vatin

All 3 theories fit,
yet the genetics show Renfrew fits better

what is your problem?
AND WHAT YOU WANT TO PROVE?

Especially someone who the most high Altaic component in Europe. :grin:





AT LEAST CAN YOU EXPLAIN/SOLVE THE PROBLEM?
OR CAN YOU GIVE US AN ANSWER,
ACCORDING THE THEORY YOU ACCEPT?
Guess Not,
Only spam crap.





BE HONEST TO YOUR SHELF ONCE
and tell us
what theory fits to a polulation of 10-15% Steppe,
but deep IE?
instead of spaming Illyromania crap

Here is your answer

Greek Branch of R1a
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

 

[blevins13]

Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[RagnarofMacedon]

I can not believe how many people here are delusional , still learning history from Wikipedia , where anyone can editing texts...
You all need to understand that Winners write the History, there is newest lecture by Prof.Keneth W.Karl very close friend of Eugene Borza known like Macedonian Specialist, he claims like many times that Macedonians were not Greeks at all, nor by dna nor by physical characteristics, SO EUGENE BORZA ? Do you know about him and Prof Keneth KARL ? Im studiying History and in this world name like Eugene is very respecfull ,also lectures by his friends and collegues and please go around me with these Texts,if you want to look at real history check which books were forbidden by Vatican...

Also in this forbidden book by Vatican these is quote by Quintus Curtius Rufus , Roman historian who said that Macedonians were from slavic tribe,also thracians and illyrians.So Slavic tribes in 4-5th century have 3 names Anti,Veneti,Slavs before that on Balkan were more than 30-40 tribes with different name ( Venedi, Sloveni, Anti, Verli (Eruli), Alani (Masageti),Hiri, Skiri, Sirbi, Daki, Svedi, Fini, Prusi, Vandali, Burgundi, Goti, Ostrogoti, Vizigoti, Geti, Gepidi,Markomani, Kvadi, Poloni, Boemi, Slezi i Bugari. ), So later main name in 7th century came like Slavs , many Roman ancient historians mentioning like Sclaveni and many other names... so also there were some quotes by Quintus Curtius Rufus where he said that Slavic tribe who won in battles on territories of Europe,Asia,Africa were known like "Vandali, Burgundioni, Gothi, Ostrogothi, Visigothi, Gepidi, Geti, Alani, Verli (Eruli), Avari,Scyrri, Hyrri, Melanchleni, Bastarni, Peuci, Daci, Suedi, Normanni, Fenni (Finni), Uchri (Uncrani),Marcomanni, Quadi, Traci (Thracians) i Illirii (Illyrians)."

Also Macedonians and Thracians are reported like reddish haired people with blue eyes...
"Several accounts by Greek writers mention redheaded people. A fragment by the poet Xenophanes describes the Thracians and Macedonians as blue-eyed and red-haired.[33]"

"Procopius described the Sclaveni and Antes as two barbarian peoples with the same institutions and customs since ancient times, not ruled by a single leader but living under democracy,[11] while Pseudo-Maurice called them a numerous people, undisciplined, unorganized and leaderless, who did not allow enslavement and conquest, and resistant to hardship, bearing all weathers.[12] They were portrayed by Procopius as unusually tall and strong, "reddish" hair (neither blond nor black), leading a primitive life and living in scattered huts, often changing their residence.[13] Procopius said they were henotheistic, believing in the god of lightning (Perun), the ruler of all, to whom they sacrificed cattle.[13] They went into battle on foot, charging straight at their enemy, armed with spears and small shields, but they did not wear armour.[13]"
"[33] The ancient peoples Budini and Sarmatians are also reported by Greek author to be blue-eyed and red-haired, and the latter even owe their names to it.[34][35]"

So we know Thracians,Macedonian were Tall people with reddish hair and blue eyes...
Most tallest people in the world are Balkans (except Greece and Albania) and Scandinavians also Netherlands.
Also if you watched the Lecture by Prof.Keneth W.Karl you can hear that many barbarians like Macedonians and Thracians were known like PHILHELLENE , ( "In antiquity, the term 'philhellene' (Greek: φιλέλλην, from φίλος - philos, "dear one, friend" + Έλλην - Hellen, "Greek"[1]) was used to describe non-Greeks who were fond of Greek culture." )
So philhellene was terminology for NON-GREEKS who were fond of Greek culture and language, or "FRIEND OF GREEKS". Because in that time barbiarians like Macedonians,thracians,illyrians can not marry GREEKS woman , unless they accept Hellenism (Greek culture and languge) and became Philhellene, so thats one point where Phillip II Macedon became philhellene to marry Olympia ( Alexander III Macedon mother ).
Also in most famouse Macedonian dynasty "The Argead dynasty" After first name Amyntas I , there is second Alexander I Philhellene ( we explain it already term philhellene ), also one quote from Herodotus ;
"And so Alexander of Macedonia proved himself to be a good Philhellene" -Herodotus , Ancient Greek Writer.
Also Macedonians have their own language it was similar to Thracian, it is belived that their language was Balto-Slavic and is very similar to todays Macedonian,Bulgarian,Serbian...
Also many words are same or similar from Homers ILLIAD ;

Modern English ------ Modern Greek -------Modern Macedonian----------- HOMER
Greetings (Hello)------ Gyasu-----------------Zdravo------------------------------Dravikos
Dear---------------------Prosfilis----------------Mili---------------------------------Mili
Possesive-own---------Ktitos-------------------Svoi--------------------------------Svos
With---------------------Me----------------------So-----------------------------------Sun
Shake-------------------Dono,seio--------------Tresi--------------------------------Tresi
Wood-------------------Ksilo--------------------Drvo--------------------------------Druos
Madness-rage---------Apotomo,parafrom---Luta(fe),Lut(male)----------------Luta
Here--------------------Edo---------------------Ovde--------------------------------Ode
Lay-put to bed--------palagase,stroma-------Legni,Leglo------------------------Leglo
Come on---------------Lipon-------------------Ajde---------------------------------Aijde
To remember----------Min ksexnas----------Pamti--------------------------------Pamti(s)
Song-------------------Tragudao,traguda-----Pesma,Pesna------------------------Asma
To keep to hold-------Sto hari----------------Vo raka------------------------------Eruko
In good spirit---------Kalos-------------------Aren---------------------------------Arin
To beat by force-----Derno,dernis,derni----Biya,bie-----------------------------Biya,bie
My proof-------------Apadoksis--------------Dokaz moy-------------------------Doko moi
Knowing,skilfull----Eksipnos---------------Itri,itar(single)----------------------Idri
Journey,trip,walking-Vadizi,Ekdromi------Odi,odenye--------------------------Odeia
Something sayed-----(to) Ipan--------------Recheno------------------------------Recos
To contair,cover------Sfingi-----------------Stega----------------------------------Stego
To rub-----------------Yaleyfo----------------Trie-----------------------------------Trio
Groaning-------------Vongizi-----------------Stenka--------------------------------Steno
Baren(old)-------------Agonos---------------Staro----------------------------------Stero
To lead----------------Serni,Liveray---------Vodi-----------------------------------Vadino
To Streach------------Travai------------------Tegni----------------------------------Teino
Eye--------------------Mati,oftalmos---------Oko-----------------------------------Okkos
To eyes----------------Mataja,oftaimi-------Ochi-----------------------------------Ochi
Small cub-------------Levis------------------Kotle----------------------------------Kotule
No---------------------Ohi---------------------Ne-------------------------------------Me
If-----------------------Ean--------------------Ako------------------------------------Ayke
Mother---------------Mitera------------------Mayka---------------------------------Maya
Mine------------------Dikomu---------------Moi-------------------------------------Moi
Spark-----------------Spotha-----------------Iskra------------------------------------Iska'a
Brother in law-------Yinikadelfos----------Dever----------------------------------Daer


And many other , also i can compare you Balto-Slavic Lithuanian-Latvian with Thracian...
Also i want to know educational degree linked with this topic , what educational degree you all have? Thanks
And please watch the Lecture on youtube , "The ethnicity of Macedonians" ...
Thanks....

 

[blevins13]

I can not believe how many people here are delusional , still learning history from Wikipedia , where anyone can editing texts...
You all need to understand that Winners write the History, there is newest lecture by Prof.Keneth W.Karl very close friend of Eugene Borza known like Macedonian Specialist, he claims like many times that Macedonians were not Greeks at all, nor by dna nor by physical characteristics, SO EUGENE BORZA ? Do you know about him and Prof Keneth KARL ? Im studiying History and in this world name like Eugene is very respecfull ,also lectures by his friends and collegues and please go around me with these Texts,if you want to look at real history check which books were forbidden by Vatican...

Also in this forbidden book by Vatican these is quote by Quintus Curtius Rufus , Roman historian who said that Macedonians were from slavic tribe,also thracians and illyrians.So Slavic tribes in 4-5th century have 3 names Anti,Veneti,Slavs before that on Balkan were more than 30-40 tribes with different name ( Venedi, Sloveni, Anti, Verli (Eruli), Alani (Masageti),Hiri, Skiri, Sirbi, Daki, Svedi, Fini, Prusi, Vandali, Burgundi, Goti, Ostrogoti, Vizigoti, Geti, Gepidi,Markomani, Kvadi, Poloni, Boemi, Slezi i Bugari. ), So later main name in 7th century came like Slavs , many Roman ancient historians mentioning like Sclaveni and many other names... so also there were some quotes by Quintus Curtius Rufus where he said that Slavic tribe who won in battles on territories of Europe,Asia,Africa were known like "Vandali, Burgundioni, Gothi, Ostrogothi, Visigothi, Gepidi, Geti, Alani, Verli (Eruli), Avari,Scyrri, Hyrri, Melanchleni, Bastarni, Peuci, Daci, Suedi, Normanni, Fenni (Finni), Uchri (Uncrani),Marcomanni, Quadi, Traci (Thracians) i Illirii (Illyrians)."

Also Macedonians and Thracians are reported like reddish haired people with blue eyes...
"Several accounts by Greek writers mention redheaded people. A fragment by the poet Xenophanes describes the Thracians and Macedonians as blue-eyed and red-haired.[33]"

"Procopius described the Sclaveni and Antes as two barbarian peoples with the same institutions and customs since ancient times, not ruled by a single leader but living under democracy,[11] while Pseudo-Maurice called them a numerous people, undisciplined, unorganized and leaderless, who did not allow enslavement and conquest, and resistant to hardship, bearing all weathers.[12] They were portrayed by Procopius as unusually tall and strong, "reddish" hair (neither blond nor black), leading a primitive life and living in scattered huts, often changing their residence.[13] Procopius said they were henotheistic, believing in the god of lightning (Perun), the ruler of all, to whom they sacrificed cattle.[13] They went into battle on foot, charging straight at their enemy, armed with spears and small shields, but they did not wear armour.[13]"
"[33] The ancient peoples Budini and Sarmatians are also reported by Greek author to be blue-eyed and red-haired, and the latter even owe their names to it.[34][35]"

So we know Thracians,Macedonian were Tall people with reddish hair and blue eyes...
Most tallest people in the world are Balkans (except Greece and Albania) and Scandinavians also Netherlands.
Also if you watched the Lecture by Prof.Keneth W.Karl you can hear that many barbarians like Macedonians and Thracians were known like PHILHELLENE , ( "In antiquity, the term 'philhellene' (Greek: φιλέλλην, from φίλος - philos, "dear one, friend" + Έλλην - Hellen, "Greek"[1]) was used to describe non-Greeks who were fond of Greek culture." )
So philhellene was terminology for NON-GREEKS who were fond of Greek culture and language, or "FRIEND OF GREEKS". Because in that time barbiarians like Macedonians,thracians,illyrians can not marry GREEKS woman , unless they accept Hellenism (Greek culture and languge) and became Philhellene, so thats one point where Phillip II Macedon became philhellene to marry Olympia ( Alexander III Macedon mother ).
Also in most famouse Macedonian dynasty "The Argead dynasty" After first name Amyntas I , there is second Alexander I Philhellene ( we explain it already term philhellene ), also one quote from Herodotus ;
"And so Alexander of Macedonia proved himself to be a good Philhellene" -Herodotus , Ancient Greek Writer.
Also Macedonians have their own language it was similar to Thracian, it is belived that their language was Balto-Slavic and is very similar to todays Macedonian,Bulgarian,Serbian...
Also many words are same or similar from Homers ILLIAD ;

Modern English ------ Modern Greek -------Modern Macedonian----------- HOMER
Greetings (Hello)------ Gyasu-----------------Zdravo------------------------------Dravikos
Dear---------------------Prosfilis----------------Mili---------------------------------Mili
Possesive-own---------Ktitos-------------------Svoi--------------------------------Svos
With---------------------Me----------------------So-----------------------------------Sun
Shake-------------------Dono,seio--------------Tresi--------------------------------Tresi
Wood-------------------Ksilo--------------------Drvo--------------------------------Druos
Madness-rage---------Apotomo,parafrom---Luta(fe),Lut(male)----------------Luta
Here--------------------Edo---------------------Ovde--------------------------------Ode
Lay-put to bed--------palagase,stroma-------Legni,Leglo------------------------Leglo
Come on---------------Lipon-------------------Ajde---------------------------------Aijde
To remember----------Min ksexnas----------Pamti--------------------------------Pamti(s)
Song-------------------Tragudao,traguda-----Pesma,Pesna------------------------Asma
To keep to hold-------Sto hari----------------Vo raka------------------------------Eruko
In good spirit---------Kalos-------------------Aren---------------------------------Arin
To beat by force-----Derno,dernis,derni----Biya,bie-----------------------------Biya,bie
My proof-------------Apadoksis--------------Dokaz moy-------------------------Doko moi
Knowing,skilfull----Eksipnos---------------Itri,itar(single)----------------------Idri
Journey,trip,walking-Vadizi,Ekdromi------Odi,odenye--------------------------Odeia
Something sayed-----(to) Ipan--------------Recheno------------------------------Recos
To contair,cover------Sfingi-----------------Stega----------------------------------Stego
To rub-----------------Yaleyfo----------------Trie-----------------------------------Trio
Groaning-------------Vongizi-----------------Stenka--------------------------------Steno
Baren(old)-------------Agonos---------------Staro----------------------------------Stero
To lead----------------Serni,Liveray---------Vodi-----------------------------------Vadino
To Streach------------Travai------------------Tegni----------------------------------Teino
Eye--------------------Mati,oftalmos---------Oko-----------------------------------Okkos
To eyes----------------Mataja,oftaimi-------Ochi-----------------------------------Ochi
Small cub-------------Levis------------------Kotle----------------------------------Kotule
No---------------------Ohi---------------------Ne-------------------------------------Me
If-----------------------Ean--------------------Ako------------------------------------Ayke
Mother---------------Mitera------------------Mayka---------------------------------Maya
Mine------------------Dikomu---------------Moi-------------------------------------Moi
Spark-----------------Spotha-----------------Iskra------------------------------------Iska'a
Brother in law-------Yinikadelfos----------Dever----------------------------------Daer


And many other , also i can compare you Balto-Slavic Lithuanian-Latvian with Thracian...
Also i want to know educational degree linked with this topic , what educational degree you all have? Thanks
And please watch the Lecture on youtube , "The ethnicity of Macedonians" ...
Thanks....

This is another view that deserves consideration.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[Yetos]

I can not believe how many people here are delusional , still learning history from Wikipedia , where anyone can editing texts...
You all need to understand that Winners write the History, there is newest lecture by Prof.Keneth W.Karl very close friend of Eugene Borza known like Macedonian Specialist, he claims like many times that Macedonians were not Greeks at all, nor by dna nor by physical characteristics, SO EUGENE BORZA ? Do you know about him and Prof Keneth KARL ? Im studiying History and in this world name like Eugene is very respecfull ,also lectures by his friends and collegues and please go around me with these Texts,if you want to look at real history check which books were forbidden by Vatican...

Also in this forbidden book by Vatican these is quote by Quintus Curtius Rufus , Roman historian who said that Macedonians were from slavic tribe,also thracians and illyrians.So Slavic tribes in 4-5th century have 3 names Anti,Veneti,Slavs before that on Balkan were more than 30-40 tribes with different name ( Venedi, Sloveni, Anti, Verli (Eruli), Alani (Masageti),Hiri, Skiri, Sirbi, Daki, Svedi, Fini, Prusi, Vandali, Burgundi, Goti, Ostrogoti, Vizigoti, Geti, Gepidi,Markomani, Kvadi, Poloni, Boemi, Slezi i Bugari. ), So later main name in 7th century came like Slavs , many Roman ancient historians mentioning like Sclaveni and many other names... so also there were some quotes by Quintus Curtius Rufus where he said that Slavic tribe who won in battles on territories of Europe,Asia,Africa were known like "Vandali, Burgundioni, Gothi, Ostrogothi, Visigothi, Gepidi, Geti, Alani, Verli (Eruli), Avari,Scyrri, Hyrri, Melanchleni, Bastarni, Peuci, Daci, Suedi, Normanni, Fenni (Finni), Uchri (Uncrani),Marcomanni, Quadi, Traci (Thracians) i Illirii (Illyrians)."

Also Macedonians and Thracians are reported like reddish haired people with blue eyes...
"Several accounts by Greek writers mention redheaded people. A fragment by the poet Xenophanes describes the Thracians and Macedonians as blue-eyed and red-haired.[33]"

"Procopius described the Sclaveni and Antes as two barbarian peoples with the same institutions and customs since ancient times, not ruled by a single leader but living under democracy,[11] while Pseudo-Maurice called them a numerous people, undisciplined, unorganized and leaderless, who did not allow enslavement and conquest, and resistant to hardship, bearing all weathers.[12] They were portrayed by Procopius as unusually tall and strong, "reddish" hair (neither blond nor black), leading a primitive life and living in scattered huts, often changing their residence.[13] Procopius said they were henotheistic, believing in the god of lightning (Perun), the ruler of all, to whom they sacrificed cattle.[13] They went into battle on foot, charging straight at their enemy, armed with spears and small shields, but they did not wear armour.[13]"
"[33] The ancient peoples Budini and Sarmatians are also reported by Greek author to be blue-eyed and red-haired, and the latter even owe their names to it.[34][35]"

So we know Thracians,Macedonian were Tall people with reddish hair and blue eyes...
Most tallest people in the world are Balkans (except Greece and Albania) and Scandinavians also Netherlands.
Also if you watched the Lecture by Prof.Keneth W.Karl you can hear that many barbarians like Macedonians and Thracians were known like PHILHELLENE , ( "In antiquity, the term 'philhellene' (Greek: φιλέλλην, from φίλος - philos, "dear one, friend" + Έλλην - Hellen, "Greek"[1]) was used to describe non-Greeks who were fond of Greek culture." )
So philhellene was terminology for NON-GREEKS who were fond of Greek culture and language, or "FRIEND OF GREEKS". Because in that time barbiarians like Macedonians,thracians,illyrians can not marry GREEKS woman , unless they accept Hellenism (Greek culture and languge) and became Philhellene, so thats one point where Phillip II Macedon became philhellene to marry Olympia ( Alexander III Macedon mother ).
Also in most famouse Macedonian dynasty "The Argead dynasty" After first name Amyntas I , there is second Alexander I Philhellene ( we explain it already term philhellene ), also one quote from Herodotus ;
"And so Alexander of Macedonia proved himself to be a good Philhellene" -Herodotus , Ancient Greek Writer.
Also Macedonians have their own language it was similar to Thracian, it is belived that their language was Balto-Slavic and is very similar to todays Macedonian,Bulgarian,Serbian...
Also many words are same or similar from Homers ILLIAD ;

Modern English ------ Modern Greek -------Modern Macedonian----------- HOMER
Greetings (Hello)------ Gyasu-----------------Zdravo------------------------------Dravikos
Dear---------------------Prosfilis----------------Mili---------------------------------Mili
Possesive-own---------Ktitos-------------------Svoi--------------------------------Svos
With---------------------Me----------------------So-----------------------------------Sun
Shake-------------------Dono,seio--------------Tresi--------------------------------Tresi
Wood-------------------Ksilo--------------------Drvo--------------------------------Druos
Madness-rage---------Apotomo,parafrom---Luta(fe),Lut(male)----------------Luta
Here--------------------Edo---------------------Ovde--------------------------------Ode
Lay-put to bed--------palagase,stroma-------Legni,Leglo------------------------Leglo
Come on---------------Lipon-------------------Ajde---------------------------------Aijde
To remember----------Min ksexnas----------Pamti--------------------------------Pamti(s)
Song-------------------Tragudao,traguda-----Pesma,Pesna------------------------Asma
To keep to hold-------Sto hari----------------Vo raka------------------------------Eruko
In good spirit---------Kalos-------------------Aren---------------------------------Arin
To beat by force-----Derno,dernis,derni----Biya,bie-----------------------------Biya,bie
My proof-------------Apadoksis--------------Dokaz moy-------------------------Doko moi
Knowing,skilfull----Eksipnos---------------Itri,itar(single)----------------------Idri
Journey,trip,walking-Vadizi,Ekdromi------Odi,odenye--------------------------Odeia
Something sayed-----(to) Ipan--------------Recheno------------------------------Recos
To contair,cover------Sfingi-----------------Stega----------------------------------Stego
To rub-----------------Yaleyfo----------------Trie-----------------------------------Trio
Groaning-------------Vongizi-----------------Stenka--------------------------------Steno
Baren(old)-------------Agonos---------------Staro----------------------------------Stero
To lead----------------Serni,Liveray---------Vodi-----------------------------------Vadino
To Streach------------Travai------------------Tegni----------------------------------Teino
Eye--------------------Mati,oftalmos---------Oko-----------------------------------Okkos
To eyes----------------Mataja,oftaimi-------Ochi-----------------------------------Ochi
Small cub-------------Levis------------------Kotle----------------------------------Kotule
No---------------------Ohi---------------------Ne-------------------------------------Me
If-----------------------Ean--------------------Ako------------------------------------Ayke
Mother---------------Mitera------------------Mayka---------------------------------Maya
Mine------------------Dikomu---------------Moi-------------------------------------Moi
Spark-----------------Spotha-----------------Iskra------------------------------------Iska'a
Brother in law-------Yinikadelfos----------Dever----------------------------------Daer


And many other , also i can compare you Balto-Slavic Lithuanian-Latvian with Thracian...
Also i want to know educational degree linked with this topic , what educational degree you all have? Thanks
And please watch the Lecture on youtube , "The ethnicity of Macedonians" ...
Thanks....

First learn correct Greek Language,
Then Learn The Homeric correct
And the search how coorect are these you Post,
Simply ridiculous,
Nothing to do with Homeric and Greek
your post is a cheap work, made in a toilet, speculaof falsification which in purpose uses other form of Greek language of the correct, as also facultates Homeric,
and has nothing to Do with Greek and Homeric

Offcourse the next by you is that Homer spoke Slavic, :bored:
how boring


For example the before the last Iska
Greek Ισκα
Latin esca
Galician Isca
Albanian eshke

what has Iska to do with spark?
Iska is an exctract of mushroom used to open fire by sparks,
Spotha? the man who wrote this, does even copy Greek correct,

ridiculous

 

[LABERIA]

Most tallest people in the world are Balkans (except Greece and Albania) and Scandinavians also Netherlands.

Especially the NM are famous for being tall.

 

[Dibran]

This is another view that deserves consideration.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

Not really. Nothing he said has a complete basis. Proto-Balto-Slavic was said to be related to possibly Proto-Dacian and Proto-Thracian. Proto-Thracian is not the same as thracian. Neither is Proto-Balto-Slavic the same as Slavic. The further you go back especially to the Proto-Balto-Slavic union, the difference with other indo european branches are far less so than is the case today. Also none of the thracians or illyrians discovered, or the ancient Greeks, had any I2a-Din/or R1a Z280/M458. The only R1a was the bronze age thracian. Even then, no one belongs to that branch. Certainly not common in Slavs any ways. From a a paternal Y standpoint, So far Slavs are not connected to any of them. Only very anciently with the M417 split with the Z93 Thracian. Also, from a autosomal standpoint, the illyrians and Thracians were Italian,Albanian Greek like. Less in the case of Balkan Slavs, and near non-existent in West or East Slavs.

What is more probable and likely is that Proto-Balto-Slavs were closer to the Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians before they left the steppes. Proto-Balto-Slavs were likely akin to Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians, representing northern cousins that never migrated to the Balkans. Only with the fragile state of Rome, and the collapse of these peoples did the Sklaveni migrate South. They likely were always dealing with Daco-Thracians on the far northern border with them. Also, Most scholars acknowledge not all Illyrians were homogenous. They also likely were not linguistically connected in a recent sense either. Possibly branching out from the rest with the breakup of Indo-European.

Perhaps some Geto-Dacians/Free Dacians that migrated north of the Danube formed a base for what would become Proto-Slavic. But in all likliehood they're distantly related and are merely northern cousins of the Thracians and Dacians, not those people themselves. Genetics/Archaeology will trump propaganda every time. So far Illyrians were R1b/J2/V13(all found predominantly in Albanians), Proto-Greeks were J2a, predominantly found in Greeks, and R1a-Z93 in a Bronze Age, likely Proto-Thracian grave(which is not recently related to Balto-Slavic Z280/M458 but distantly(5-6 thousand ypb).

No one can deny South Slavs have Paleo-Balkan heritage, both autosomally, and through Y chromosome. Especially Bulgarians/Macedonians. However, to say All these paleo-balkan people were Slavic and further from Albanians and Greeks is about as propagandized as you can get. Whats more correct is that Proto-Balto-Slavs were ancestral cousins of Proto-Thracians/Proto-Dacians, only migrating as Proto-Slavs from the north much later, as opposed to their distant southern kin, who left the steppe before many of these lineages differentiated themselves.

 

[markod]

I can not believe how many people here are delusional , still learning history from Wikipedia , where anyone can editing texts...
You all need to understand that Winners write the History, there is newest lecture by Prof.Keneth W.Karl very close friend of Eugene Borza known like Macedonian Specialist, he claims like many times that Macedonians were not Greeks at all, nor by dna nor by physical characteristics, SO EUGENE BORZA ? Do you know about him and Prof Keneth KARL ? Im studiying History and in this world name like Eugene is very respecfull ,also lectures by his friends and collegues and please go around me with these Texts,if you want to look at real history check which books were forbidden by Vatican...

Also in this forbidden book by Vatican these is quote by Quintus Curtius Rufus , Roman historian who said that Macedonians were from slavic tribe,also thracians and illyrians.So Slavic tribes in 4-5th century have 3 names Anti,Veneti,Slavs before that on Balkan were more than 30-40 tribes with different name ( Venedi, Sloveni, Anti, Verli (Eruli), Alani (Masageti),Hiri, Skiri, Sirbi, Daki, Svedi, Fini, Prusi, Vandali, Burgundi, Goti, Ostrogoti, Vizigoti, Geti, Gepidi,Markomani, Kvadi, Poloni, Boemi, Slezi i Bugari. ), So later main name in 7th century came like Slavs , many Roman ancient historians mentioning like Sclaveni and many other names... so also there were some quotes by Quintus Curtius Rufus where he said that Slavic tribe who won in battles on territories of Europe,Asia,Africa were known like "Vandali, Burgundioni, Gothi, Ostrogothi, Visigothi, Gepidi, Geti, Alani, Verli (Eruli), Avari,Scyrri, Hyrri, Melanchleni, Bastarni, Peuci, Daci, Suedi, Normanni, Fenni (Finni), Uchri (Uncrani),Marcomanni, Quadi, Traci (Thracians) i Illirii (Illyrians)."

Also Macedonians and Thracians are reported like reddish haired people with blue eyes...
"Several accounts by Greek writers mention redheaded people. A fragment by the poet Xenophanes describes the Thracians and Macedonians as blue-eyed and red-haired.[33]"

"Procopius described the Sclaveni and Antes as two barbarian peoples with the same institutions and customs since ancient times, not ruled by a single leader but living under democracy,[11] while Pseudo-Maurice called them a numerous people, undisciplined, unorganized and leaderless, who did not allow enslavement and conquest, and resistant to hardship, bearing all weathers.[12] They were portrayed by Procopius as unusually tall and strong, "reddish" hair (neither blond nor black), leading a primitive life and living in scattered huts, often changing their residence.[13] Procopius said they were henotheistic, believing in the god of lightning (Perun), the ruler of all, to whom they sacrificed cattle.[13] They went into battle on foot, charging straight at their enemy, armed with spears and small shields, but they did not wear armour.[13]"
"[33] The ancient peoples Budini and Sarmatians are also reported by Greek author to be blue-eyed and red-haired, and the latter even owe their names to it.[34][35]"

So we know Thracians,Macedonian were Tall people with reddish hair and blue eyes...
Most tallest people in the world are Balkans (except Greece and Albania) and Scandinavians also Netherlands.
Also if you watched the Lecture by Prof.Keneth W.Karl you can hear that many barbarians like Macedonians and Thracians were known like PHILHELLENE , ( "In antiquity, the term 'philhellene' (Greek: φιλέλλην, from φίλος - philos, "dear one, friend" + Έλλην - Hellen, "Greek"[1]) was used to describe non-Greeks who were fond of Greek culture." )
So philhellene was terminology for NON-GREEKS who were fond of Greek culture and language, or "FRIEND OF GREEKS". Because in that time barbiarians like Macedonians,thracians,illyrians can not marry GREEKS woman , unless they accept Hellenism (Greek culture and languge) and became Philhellene, so thats one point where Phillip II Macedon became philhellene to marry Olympia ( Alexander III Macedon mother ).
Also in most famouse Macedonian dynasty "The Argead dynasty" After first name Amyntas I , there is second Alexander I Philhellene ( we explain it already term philhellene ), also one quote from Herodotus ;
"And so Alexander of Macedonia proved himself to be a good Philhellene" -Herodotus , Ancient Greek Writer.
Also Macedonians have their own language it was similar to Thracian, it is belived that their language was Balto-Slavic and is very similar to todays Macedonian,Bulgarian,Serbian...
Also many words are same or similar from Homers ILLIAD ;

Modern English ------ Modern Greek -------Modern Macedonian----------- HOMER
Greetings (Hello)------ Gyasu-----------------Zdravo------------------------------Dravikos
Dear---------------------Prosfilis----------------Mili---------------------------------Mili
Possesive-own---------Ktitos-------------------Svoi--------------------------------Svos
With---------------------Me----------------------So-----------------------------------Sun
Shake-------------------Dono,seio--------------Tresi--------------------------------Tresi
Wood-------------------Ksilo--------------------Drvo--------------------------------Druos
Madness-rage---------Apotomo,parafrom---Luta(fe),Lut(male)----------------Luta
Here--------------------Edo---------------------Ovde--------------------------------Ode
Lay-put to bed--------palagase,stroma-------Legni,Leglo------------------------Leglo
Come on---------------Lipon-------------------Ajde---------------------------------Aijde
To remember----------Min ksexnas----------Pamti--------------------------------Pamti(s)
Song-------------------Tragudao,traguda-----Pesma,Pesna------------------------Asma
To keep to hold-------Sto hari----------------Vo raka------------------------------Eruko
In good spirit---------Kalos-------------------Aren---------------------------------Arin
To beat by force-----Derno,dernis,derni----Biya,bie-----------------------------Biya,bie
My proof-------------Apadoksis--------------Dokaz moy-------------------------Doko moi
Knowing,skilfull----Eksipnos---------------Itri,itar(single)----------------------Idri
Journey,trip,walking-Vadizi,Ekdromi------Odi,odenye--------------------------Odeia
Something sayed-----(to) Ipan--------------Recheno------------------------------Recos
To contair,cover------Sfingi-----------------Stega----------------------------------Stego
To rub-----------------Yaleyfo----------------Trie-----------------------------------Trio
Groaning-------------Vongizi-----------------Stenka--------------------------------Steno
Baren(old)-------------Agonos---------------Staro----------------------------------Stero
To lead----------------Serni,Liveray---------Vodi-----------------------------------Vadino
To Streach------------Travai------------------Tegni----------------------------------Teino
Eye--------------------Mati,oftalmos---------Oko-----------------------------------Okkos
To eyes----------------Mataja,oftaimi-------Ochi-----------------------------------Ochi
Small cub-------------Levis------------------Kotle----------------------------------Kotule
No---------------------Ohi---------------------Ne-------------------------------------Me
If-----------------------Ean--------------------Ako------------------------------------Ayke
Mother---------------Mitera------------------Mayka---------------------------------Maya
Mine------------------Dikomu---------------Moi-------------------------------------Moi
Spark-----------------Spotha-----------------Iskra------------------------------------Iska'a
Brother in law-------Yinikadelfos----------Dever----------------------------------Daer


And many other , also i can compare you Balto-Slavic Lithuanian-Latvian with Thracian...
Also i want to know educational degree linked with this topic , what educational degree you all have? Thanks
And please watch the Lecture on youtube , "The ethnicity of Macedonians" ...
Thanks....

Lol, Slavic Macedonians. You are insane.

 

[Yetos]

Tumulus-burial in Albania and problems of Ethnogenesis
Iliria Année 1976 4 pp. 127-132
Nicholas G. L. Hammond

Tumulus burial ceased in Mycenaean Greece before 1400 b.c., yet when Achilles honours Patroclus in Iliad he uses a method of burial than used only in Albania and farther north. It is likely that Homer here reveals the origins of heroic practice, and very probably the origin of oral epic. The dramatic date of the poem was 200 years after the end of tumulus burial in Mycenaean Greece and Homer himself lived 600 and 700 years after that time. But he went correctly to the north-west for the origin of Achilles, tumulus burial and heroic practices. For Albania was and is the homeland of heroes.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

HOW PATHETIC

BEFORE YOU SAID TO US ABOUT TUMULUS IN OLYMP at 1500 BC
AND NOW YOU TELL US THAT WAS USED ONLY IN ALBANIA AND NORTH
YET THE TUMULI CHANGE and Continue after 1500 AND ARE Primary IN ALL MAKEDONIAN Necropolis, and in many other parts of Helladic space.
even after Alexander we found the evolution of Tumuli

Simply pathetic Blevins

Tumuli ONLY IN ALBANIA !!!!!!!
NOT even to be taken serious.

 

[Yetos]

Blevins I do not know where you found about Seima Turbino

I GIVE YOU THIS

The language of the Catacomb culture must naturally remain unknown. Within the context of the Kurgan hypothesis expounded by Marija Gimbutas, an Indo-European component is speculated about, particularly in the later stages. Placing the ancestors of the Greek, Albanian and Armenian (perhaps Paleo-Balkan) dialects here is tempting, as it would neatly explain certain shared features.

GREEKS WERE CATACOMB CULTURE.
WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS

and sing as ever you like
SEIMA-Turbino has Ydna N,
Bye bye Blevins,

 

[blevins13]

HOW PATHETIC

BEFORE YOU SAID TO US ABOUT TUMULUS IN OLYMP at 1500 BC
AND NOW YOU TELL US THAT WAS USED ONLY IN ALBANIA AND NORTH
YET THE TUMULI CHANGE and Continue after 1500 AND ARE Primary IN ALL MAKEDONIAN Necropolis, and in many other parts of Helladic space.
even after Alexander we found the evolution of Tumuli

Simply pathetic Blevins

Tumuli ONLY IN ALBANIA !!!!!!!
NOT even to be taken serious.

I do not tell anything.
For the member of this forum this not my doing or writing but Hammond (1976). Read and enjoy.

Tumulus-burial in Albania and problems of Ethnogenesis
Iliria Année 1976 4 pp. 127-132

Nicholas G. L. Hammond

Tumulus burial ceased in Mycenaean Greece before 1400 b.c., yet when Achilles honours Patroclus in Iliad he uses a method of burial than used only in Albania and farther north. It is likely that Homer here reveals the origins of heroic practice, and very probably the origin of oral epic. The dramatic date of the poem was 200 years after the end of tumulus burial in Mycenaean Greece and Homer himself lived 600 and 700 years after that time. But he went correctly to the north-west for the origin of Achilles, tumulus burial and heroic practices. For Albania was and is the homeland of heroes.

Here is the link as well
https://www.persee.fr/doc/iliri_1727-2548_1976_num_4_1_1174

Nicholas Geoffrey Lemprière Hammond, CBE, DSO, FBA (15 November 1907 – 24 March 2001) was a British scholar of ancient Greece and an operative for the British Special Operations Executive (SOE) in occupied Greece during World War II. He excelled in his exams and also spent vacations exploring Greece and Albania on foot, acquiring knowledge of the topography and terrain, as well as fluency in Albanian. These abilities led him to be recruited by the Special Operations Executive during World War II in 1940. He published a memoir of his war service entitled Venture into Greece in 1983; he was awarded the Distinguished Service Order and the Greek Order of the Phoenix.





Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[blevins13]

Blevins I do not know where you found about Seima Turbino

I GIVE YOU THIS

The language of the Catacomb culture must naturally remain unknown. Within the context of the Kurgan hypothesis expounded by Marija Gimbutas, an Indo-European component is speculated about, particularly in the later stages. Placing the ancestors of the Greek, Albanian and Armenian (perhaps Paleo-Balkan) dialects here is tempting, as it would neatly explain certain shared features.

GREEKS WERE CATACOMB CULTURE.
WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS

and sing as ever you like
SEIMA-Turbino has Ydna N,
Bye bye Blevins,

Here is your answer

Greek Branch of R1a
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

But it seems that you Keep changing your mind about Greeks.....


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[RagnarofMacedon]

Sure and professor Keneth W.Karl is insane and Eugene Borza and many ancient writters ,historians and orators are... You are right..
Can you tell me what educational degree you have ?

 

[Dibran]

Sure and professor Keneth W.Karl is insane and Eugene Borza and many ancient writters ,historians and orators are... You are right..
Can you tell me what educational degree you have ?

You're over a decade behind. Science/DNA/Archaeology trump "historians" every time. Humans are fallible. The dead bodies and archaeological finds are not. Genetically Thracians and Illyrians proper were North Italian/Albanian/Greek like genetically. Of the Thracians discovered so far, one was E-V13(dominates in Albanians and Greeks, and lastly Bulgarians) and a Proto-Thracian who was R1a-Z93, a branch near non-existent in Slavs. Illyrians discovered thus far were R1b-L23, E1b, and a Proto-Illyrian J2b-L283. All lineages that make up more than 75-80 percent of the Albanian male population.

Slavs are predominantly R1a-Z280(found in Balto-Slavic Graves), I2a-Din(found in a Polish and Russian medieval Slav, and R1a-M458, which has one medieval West Slavic, and East German. From a genetic stand point your claims couldn't be further from the truth.

Linguistically there is no consensus Illyrians/Thracians/Dacians even spoke the same language. The Illyrians themselves appear not to be homogenous. Proto-Slavs remained in the steppe the longest out of every indo-european, and therefore had the slowest progression even in language. Parallels you notice are not literal continuations, but early indo-european language similarities.

Proto-Balto-Slavic was believed to be a NORTHERN relative of Proto-Thracian and Proto-Dacian. Not That Slavs come from Proto-Dacians/Proto-Thracians. There is a BIG difference. These peoples migrated from the steppe long before their distant northern kin came down in the middle ages, far removed from their ancient cousins.

So far, outside of Balkan Slavs, most of Slavdom DOES NOT have the paternal Y chromosome or even similar genome to Illyrians and Thracians discovered so far. You can repeat your propaganda until the cows come home, Genetics which is a far more calculated discipline contradicts you completely. Slavs are also heterogenous, and so have absorbed ancestries East to West, with Slavic operating as Lingua Franca and absorbing many admixtures along the way. Bulgarians and Macedonians for instance are closest to Greeks and then Albanians. Whereas, Slovenians and Croatians have more Slavic ancestry on average. Suggesting East Balkan Slavs acquired more paleo-balkan ancestry via assimilation tactics as opposed to the west Balkans which largely replaced a good majority of the native populace.

Your YDNA "I2a2a" was minimally found in ancient samples of the East Balkans and is most common in Albanians Greeks and Aromanians today. With a decent representation among Pomaks. By paternal descent you could well be paleo-balkan. This is not the case for most of your ancestral kin whom fall into I2a1b-Din, a near entirely slavic branch with bottlenecks and founder effects. Learn to separate facts from reality as best as possible and set your desires aside.

 

[Yetos]

Here is your answer

Greek Branch of R1a
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

But it seems that you Keep changing your mind about Greeks.....View attachment 11005


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

With an ancestry of 10-14% Steppe
the lowest Altaic component in all IE, almost 0%, even after 400 Ottoman-Turkish occupation,
Only one sample of Ydna N found until now, at more than 20 000 000 Greeks of Hellas and diaspora (one found in Peloponese)
There is NO chance that Greeks and especially the Mycenean part, to be origined from Seima Turbino.

Seima Turbino is a culture of Ydna N, and heavily charched with Altaic Component.
GENNETICS SPEAK
if we follow the theory of Antoni, or Gibutas
which does not fit in Helladic space, and Genetics,
Then Greeks both Linguistically and gennetical Origin from Yamnaa, and Vucedol-Vatin alternative name Cetina,
This is expressed By 1928, and has archailogical evidences, Carl Blegen,
which is the descent of Greeks from Vucedol-Vatin (Cetine),
in fact Cetina is also a big split, giving also Latin to West, etc
IRELAND GENETICALLY IS MORE POSSIBLE FOR SEIMA TURBINO, THAN GREECE, DUE to Altaic component

The Genetical structure of Greece, almost Palaiolithic and Neolithic mixture,
with the lowest STEPPE, and almost Zero Altaic,
Shows other Theories as primary,
Especially the Mycenean Branch Genetics Suggest rather a Neolithic origin
or a South Caucasos origin, Armenia High Lands

The R1a in Greece, and Greek world, is the only Ydna mark That may connect Greek to Baltics, As Hammond express it, (although I disagree)
and came from the possible road of Yamnaa to Vucedol-Vatin (Cetina) (Croatia/Serbia today) with descent of Greeks at 3000 BC to the area of proto-Greeks

Period,

Tumuli was used By all Proto-Greeks, was used by Myceneans, and its evolution gave the famous Makedonian Toumbas, which are typically and characteristic
and IS NOT ONLY Albanian, As you like it to be in your Brain, and in your Dreams,

Btw
did you go to a doctor to help you with Illyromania and Albanian only case?
Don't leave it, it will hurt you more in Future,
using Schopenhauer by the book, and step by step, makes people blind, and lost in space, or Only in, mass usage of Schopehauer it is just a shelf-exille from truth.

BYE BYE BLIND BLEVINS
THE MOST BLIND OF ALL MEMBERS,


Seima Turbino culture

TheAltai Mountainsin what is now southern Russia and central Mongolia have been identified as the point of origin of the cultural enigma of Seima-Turbino phenomenon.^[7] The culture spread from these mountains to the west and to the east.^[8] Artefact types such as spearheads with hooks, single-bladed knives and socketed axes with geometric designs traveled west and east.<sup>[9]

migrations spread the Uralic languagesacross Europe and Asia.[11]</sup>

Notable is the similiarity between the range of Haplogroup N3a3’6, especially in the western part of Eurasia and the distribution of the Seima-Turbino trans-cultural phenomenon during the interval of 4.2–3.7 kya. ^[13] Carriers of N3a1-B211, the early branch of N3a, could have migrated to the eastern fringes of Europe by the same Seima-Turbino groups. However earlier migration(s) cannot be ruled out either; a study of ancient DNA revealed a 7,500-year-old influx from Siberia to northeast Europe. ^{[14] [15]}

BLEVINS
THIS IS SEIMA-TURBINO
ALTAIC
URALIC LANGUAGES
Hg N

I tend to keep calm and show respect to you.
But your egoism, Tumuli is Only Albanian origin
did not leave me more, patience has limits.


SO FORUM MEMBER BLEVINS13 WHICH BEFORE LAZARIDES PAPPER TOLD US OF HIS MYCENEAN ANCESTRY Due to R1b
Now tells us that Myceneans were Altaic connected, SPOKE URALIC LANGUAGES, and were heavily charched with Hg N genetically.

:useless: :useless: :useless: :useless: :useless:

Tumulus-burial in Albania and problems of Ethnogenesis

Iliria Année 1976 4 pp. 127-132
Nicholas G. L. Hammond
Tumulus burial ceased in Mycenaean Greece before 1400 b.c., yet when Achilles honours Patroclus in Iliad he uses a method of burial than used only in Albania and farther north. It is likely that Homer here reveals the origins of heroic practice, and very probably the origin of oral epic. The dramatic date of the poem was 200 years after the end of tumulus burial in Mycenaean Greece and Homer himself lived 600 and 700 years after that time. But he went correctly to the north-west for the origin of Achilles, tumulus burial and heroic practices. For Albania was and is the homeland of heroes.

Cetina related with Mycenaean civilization come on this is a joke not Seima -Turbino. Considering also lack of R1b so far and minimal step for sure Seima - Turbino.

Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

Mycenaean(Seima- Turbino culture) vs Illyrians (Kurgan Culture). So no, at that time only Illyrians used tumulus in the Balkans.

Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

SO THIS MEMBER,
BLINDED BY ULTRA NATIONALISM.
WITH MAYBE TRAUMAS IN HIS PSYCHOLOGY.
NOW TELL US THAT MYCENEANS
WERE CONNECTED WITH ALTAI Mt (nomatter Altaic component is almost Zero) etrified:
SPOKE URALIC LANGUAGES, (Mycenean is one of the most typical IE) etrified:
WERE HEAVILY hg Ydna N (Almost 0%, only one found until now in whole Greek nation) etrified:

etrified: etrified: etrified: etrified:

WHAT CAN SOMEONE SAY?
Except a wish for Peace of Mind.

I am sure Gods are with him,
Gods protect and take care of such guys.

you could read at least the Carl Blegen and Giannopoulos, and escape from your hell,
even read about Seima-Turbino culture.
or even trust Lazarides papper,
But No, you insisted,
may Gods protect your soul, cause mind ......
You were and asking fo it,
you scratch the sheperd's bat wrong way. :innocent: :innocent: :innocent:


Blevins the Catacomb culture, or the S Caucasos cultures were not enough for you,
you have to Go to Altaic mountains and uralic languages?
or you never of other IE cultures outside steppe?

 

[blevins13]

With an ancestry of 10-14% Steppe
the lowest Altaic component in all IE, almost 0%, even after 400 Ottoman-Turkish occupation,
Only one sample of Ydna N found until now, at more than 20 000 000 Greeks of Hellas and diaspora (one found in Peloponese)
There is NO chance that Greeks and especially the Mycenean part, to be origined from Seima Turbino.

Seima Turbino is a culture of Ydna N, and heavily charched with Altaic Component.
GENNETICS SPEAK
if we follow the theory of Antoni, or Gibutas
which does not fit in Helladic space, and Genetics,
Then Greeks both Linguistically and gennetical Origin from Yamnaa, and Vucedol-Vatin alternative name Cetina,
This is expressed By 1928, and has archailogical evidences, Carl Blegen,
which is the descent of Greeks from Vucedol-Vatin (Cetine),
in fact Cetina is also a big split, giving also Latin to West, etc
IRELAND GENETICALLY IS MORE POSSIBLE FOR SEIMA TURBINO, THAN GREECE, DUE to Altaic component

The Genetical structure of Greece, almost Palaiolithic and Neolithic mixture,
with the lowest STEPPE, and almost Zero Altaic,
Shows other Theories as primary,
Especially the Mycenean Branch Genetics Suggest rather a Neolithic origin
or a South Caucasos origin, Armenia High Lands

The R1a in Greece, and Greek world, is the only Ydna mark That may connect Greek to Baltics, As Hammond express it, (although I disagree)
and came from the possible road of Yamnaa to Vucedol-Vatin (Cetina) (Croatia/Serbia today) with descent of Greeks at 3000 BC to the area of proto-Greeks

Period,

Tumuli was used By all Proto-Greeks, was used by Myceneans, and its evolution gave the famous Makedonian Toumbas, which are typically and characteristic
and IS NOT ONLY Albanian, As you like it to be in your Brain, and in your Dreams,

Btw
did you go to a doctor to help you with Illyromania and Albanian only case?
Don't leave it, it will hurt you more in Future,
using Schopenhauer by the book, and step by step, makes people blind, and lost in space, or Only in, mass usage of Schopehauer it is just a shelf-exille from truth.

BYE BYE BLIND BLEVINS
THE MOST BLIND OF ALL MEMBERS,


Seima Turbino culture

TheAltai Mountainsin what is now southern Russia and central Mongolia have been identified as the point of origin of the cultural enigma of Seima-Turbino phenomenon.^[7] The culture spread from these mountains to the west and to the east.^[8] Artefact types such as spearheads with hooks, single-bladed knives and socketed axes with geometric designs traveled west and east.<sup>[9]

migrations spread the Uralic languagesacross Europe and Asia.[11]</sup>

Notable is the similiarity between the range of Haplogroup N3a3’6, especially in the western part of Eurasia and the distribution of the Seima-Turbino trans-cultural phenomenon during the interval of 4.2–3.7 kya. ^[13] Carriers of N3a1-B211, the early branch of N3a, could have migrated to the eastern fringes of Europe by the same Seima-Turbino groups. However earlier migration(s) cannot be ruled out either; a study of ancient DNA revealed a 7,500-year-old influx from Siberia to northeast Europe. ^{[14] [15]}

BLEVINS
THIS IS SEIMA-TURBINO
ALTAIC
URALIC LANGUAGES
Hg N

I tend to keep calm and show respect to you.
But your egoism, Tumuli is Only Albanian origin
did not leave me more, patience has limits.


SO FORUM MEMBER BLEVINS13 WHICH BEFORE LAZARIDES PAPPER TOLD US OF HIS MYCENEAN ANCESTRY Due to R1b
Now tells us that Myceneans were Altaic connected, SPOKE URALIC LANGUAGES, and were heavily charched with Hg N genetically.

:useless: :useless: :useless: :useless: :useless:












SO THIS MEMBER,
BLINDED BY ULTRA NATIONALISM.
WITH MAYBE TRAUMAS IN HIS PSYCHOLOGY.
NOW TELL US THAT MYCENEANS
WERE CONNECTED WITH ALTAI Mt (nomatter Altaic component is almost Zero) etrified:
SPOKE URALIC LANGUAGES, (Mycenean is one of the most typical IE) etrified:
WERE HEAVILY hg Ydna N (Almost 0%, only one found until now in whole Greek nation) etrified:

etrified: etrified: etrified: etrified:

WHAT CAN SOMEONE SAY?
Except a wish for Peace of Mind.

I am sure Gods are with him,
Gods protect and take care of such guys.

you could read at least the Carl Blegen and Giannopoulos, and escape from your hell,
even read about Seima-Turbino culture.
or even trust Lazarides papper,
But No, you insisted,
may Gods protect your soul, cause mind ......
You were and asking fo it,
you scratch the sheperd's bat wrong way. :innocent: :innocent: :innocent:


Blevins the Catacomb culture, or the S Caucasos cultures were not enough for you,
you have to Go to Altaic mountains and uralic languages?
or you never of other IE cultures outside steppe?

Again bla...bla no academic references just bitter bickering.

Metallurgy spreading with Uralic language, this would be quite a scene. However, recent genetic testings of sites in south Siberia and Kazakhstan (Andronovo horizon) would rather support a spreading of the bronze technology via Indo-european migrations. So Seima Turbino and Mycenaeans remains a valid connection.

As for the Vucidol - Mycenaean connection, that is hard to bridge due to the following....



But keep trying or Patroclus is gone and that will be quite a loss.




Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[Yetos]

again bla...bla no academic references just bitter bickering.

Metallurgy spreading with uralic language, this would be quite a scene. However, recent genetic testings of sites in south siberia and kazakhstan (andronovo horizon) would rather support a spreading of the bronze technology via indo-european migrations. So seima turbino and mycenaeans remains a valid connection.

As for the vucidol - mycenaean connection, that is hard to bridge due to the following....
View attachment 11006


but keep trying or patroclus is gone and that will be quite a loss.




Sent from my iphone using eupedia forum

BYE BYE BLEVINS13

Forum members have memmory on what is published,
most are more than 2 years, before Lazarides papper,
look how many years you are,
Only Blinded by ultranationalist hate like you, can not See and ask sources, Which I am forced to wrie at bottom of post.

Here is your answer

Greek Branch of R1a
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Greek

But it seems that you Keep changing your mind about Greeks.....View attachment 11005


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

With an ancestry of 10-14% Steppe
the lowest Altaic component in all IE, almost 0%, even after 400 Ottoman-Turkish occupation,
Only one sample of Ydna N found until now, at more than 20 000 000 Greeks of Hellas and diaspora (one found in Peloponese)
There is NO chance that Greeks and especially the Mycenean part, to be origined from Seima Turbino.

Seima Turbino is a culture of Ydna N, and heavily charched with Altaic Component.
GENNETICS SPEAK
if we follow the theory of Antoni, or Gibutas
which does not fit in Helladic space, and Genetics,
Then Greeks both Linguistically and gennetical Origin from Yamnaa, and Vucedol-Vatin alternative name Cetina,
This is expressed By 1928, and has archailogical evidences, Carl Blegen,
which is the descent of Greeks from Vucedol-Vatin (Cetine),
in fact Cetina is also a big split, giving also Latin to West, etc
IRELAND GENETICALLY IS MORE POSSIBLE FOR SEIMA TURBINO, THAN GREECE, DUE to Altaic component

The Genetical structure of Greece, almost Palaiolithic and Neolithic mixture,
with the lowest STEPPE, and almost Zero Altaic,
Shows other Theories as primary,
Especially the Mycenean Branch Genetics Suggest rather a Neolithic origin
or a South Caucasos origin, Armenia High Lands

The R1a in Greece, and Greek world, is the only Ydna mark That may connect Greek to Baltics, As Hammond express it, (although I disagree)
and came from the possible road of Yamnaa to Vucedol-Vatin (Cetina) (Croatia/Serbia today) with descent of Greeks at 3000 BC to the area of proto-Greeks

Period,

Tumuli was used By all Proto-Greeks, was used by Myceneans, and its evolution gave the famous Makedonian Toumbas, which are typically and characteristic
and IS NOT ONLY Albanian, As you like it to be in your Brain, and in your Dreams,

Btw
did you go to a doctor to help you with Illyromania and Albanian only case?
Don't leave it, it will hurt you more in Future,
using Schopenhauer by the book, and step by step, makes people blind, and lost in space, or Only in, mass usage of Schopehauer it is just a shelf-exille from truth.

BYE BYE BLIND BLEVINS



Seima Turbino culture

TheAltai Mountainsin what is now southern Russia and central Mongolia have been identified as the point of origin of the cultural enigma of Seima-Turbino phenomenon.^[7] The culture spread from these mountains to the west and to the east.^[8] Artefact types such as spearheads with hooks, single-bladed knives and socketed axes with geometric designs traveled west and east.<sup>[9]

migrations spread the Uralic languagesacross Europe and Asia.[11]</sup>

Notable is the similiarity between the range of Haplogroup N3a3’6, especially in the western part of Eurasia and the distribution of the Seima-Turbino trans-cultural phenomenon during the interval of 4.2–3.7 kya. ^[13] Carriers of N3a1-B211, the early branch of N3a, could have migrated to the eastern fringes of Europe by the same Seima-Turbino groups. However earlier migration(s) cannot be ruled out either; a study of ancient DNA revealed a 7,500-year-old influx from Siberia to northeast Europe. ^{[14] [15]}

BLEVINS
THIS IS SEIMA-TURBINO
ALTAIC
URALIC LANGUAGES
Hg N

I tend to keep calm and show respect to you.
But your egoism, Tumuli is Only Albanian origin
did not leave me more, patience has limits.


SO FORUM MEMBER BLEVINS13 WHICH BEFORE LAZARIDES PAPPER TOLD US OF HIS MYCENEAN ANCESTRY Due to R1b
Now tells us that Myceneans were Altaic connected, SPOKE URALIC LANGUAGES, and were heavily charched with Hg N genetically.

:useless: :useless: :useless: :useless: :useless:

Tumulus-burial in Albania and problems of Ethnogenesis

Iliria Année 1976 4 pp. 127-132
Nicholas G. L. Hammond
Tumulus burial ceased in Mycenaean Greece before 1400 b.c., yet when Achilles honours Patroclus in Iliad he uses a method of burial than used only in Albania and farther north. It is likely that Homer here reveals the origins of heroic practice, and very probably the origin of oral epic. The dramatic date of the poem was 200 years after the end of tumulus burial in Mycenaean Greece and Homer himself lived 600 and 700 years after that time. But he went correctly to the north-west for the origin of Achilles, tumulus burial and heroic practices. For Albania was and is the homeland of heroes.

Cetina related with Mycenaean civilization come on this is a joke not Seima -Turbino. Considering also lack of R1b so far and minimal step for sure Seima - Turbino.

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Mycenaean(Seima- Turbino culture) vs Illyrians (Kurgan Culture). So no, at that time only Illyrians used tumulus in the Balkans.

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SO THIS MEMBER,
BLINDED BY ULTRA NATIONALISM.
WITH MAYBE TRAUMAS IN HIS PSYCHOLOGY.
NOW TELL US THAT MYCENEANS
WERE CONNECTED WITH ALTAI Mt (nomatter Altaic component is almost Zero) etrified:
SPOKE URALIC LANGUAGES, (Mycenean is one of the most typical IE) etrified:
WERE HEAVILY hg Ydna N (Almost 0%, only one found until now in whole Greek nation) etrified:

etrified: etrified: etrified: etrified:

WHAT CAN SOMEONE SAY?
Except a wish for Peace of Mind.

I am sure Gods are with him,
Gods protect and take care of such guys.

you could read at least the Carl Blegen and Giannopoulos, and escape from your hell,
even read about Seima-Turbino culture.
or even trust Lazarides papper,
But No, you insisted,
may Gods protect your soul, cause mind ......
You were and asking fo it,
you scratch the sheperd's bat wrong way. :innocent: :innocent: :innocent:


Blevins the Catacomb culture, or the S Caucasos cultures were not enough for you,
you have to Go to Altaic mountains and uralic languages?
or you never of other IE cultures outside steppe?


a pathetic pittyfull aproach, by member Blevins13
guided by hate of ultranationalism
which with strange methods,
want us to Believe that Myceneans are steppe Altaic people,
and Spoke Uralic languages
while Lazarides papper on Myceneans is clear of S Caucasos and Armenia highlands origin
with low average 14% (10-20%) of Steppe, and Zero Altaic

BLEVINS MYCENEANS DID NOT SPOKE URALIC,
AS YOU LIKE THEM TO BE.
BYE BYE


The Academic pappers you ask

• Marchenko et al. 2017.
• ^ Anthony 2007, pp. 447.
• ^ A Dictionary of Archaeology, edited by Ian Shaw, Robert Jameson, page 517
• ^ Frachetti, Michael David, Pastoralist Landscapes and Social Interaction in Bronze Age Eurasia, pp. 52–3
• ^ Anthony 2007, pp. 444-7.
• ^ Anthony 2007, pp. 443-4.
• ^ Jump up to:^{a b} Anthony 2007.
• ^ Jump up to:^{a b} Chernykh, E.N. (2008). "Formation of the Eurasian "Steppe Belt" of Stockbreeding cultures". Archaeology, Ethnology and Anthropology of Eurasia. 35 (3): 36–53. doi:10.1016/j.aeae.2008.11.003.
• ^ Chernykh 1992, p.220-21, figs. 74, 75.
• ^ Christian 1998.
• ^ Jump up to:^{a b} Keys, David (January 2009). "Scholars crack the code of an ancient enigma". BBC History Magazine. 10 (1): 9.
• ^ Higham, C.; Higham, T.; Kijngam, A. (2011), "Cutting a Gordian Knot: the Bronze Age of Southeast Asia: origins, timing and impact", Antiquity, 85 (328): 583–598, doi:10.1017/S0003598X00067971
• ^ E. Chernykh The “Steppe Belt” of stockbreeding cultures in Eurasia during the Early Metal Age Trab. Prehist., 65 (2008), pp. 73-93, 10.3989/tp.2008.08004
• ^ C. Der Sarkissian, O. Balanovsky, G. Brandt, V. Khartanovich, A. Buzhilova, S. Koshel, V. Zaporozhchenko, D. Gronenborn, V. Moiseyev, E. Kolpakov, et al., "Genographic Consortium Ancient DNA reveals prehistoric gene-flow from siberia in the complex human population history of North East Europe" PLoS Genet., 9 (2013), p. e1003296
• ^ "The American Journal of Human Genetics: Volume 99, Issue 1: Human Y Chromosome Haplogroup N: A Non-trivial Time-Resolved Phylogeography that Cuts across Language Families", 7 July 2016, Pages 163-173
• ^ http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/view/4182/4018
• ^ Lalueza-Fox, C.; Sampietro, M. L.; Gilbert, M. T. P.; Castri, L.; Facchini, F.; Pettener, D.; Bertranpetit, J. (2004), "Unravelling migrations in the steppe: mitochondrial DNA sequences from ancient central Asians", Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 271 (1542): 941–947, doi:10.1098/rspb.2004.2698, PMC 1691686, PMID 15255049
• ^ Keyser, Christine; Bouakaze, Caroline; Crubézy, Eric; Nikolaev, Valery G.; Montagnon, Daniel; Reis, Tatiana; Ludes, Bertrand (2009), "Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people", Human Genetics, 126 (3): 395–410, doi:10.1007/s00439-009-0683-0, PMID 19449030

bye bye little Goebels

 

[Piro Ilir]

Not really. Nothing he said has a complete basis. Proto-Balto-Slavic was said to be related to possibly Proto-Dacian and Proto-Thracian. Proto-Thracian is not the same as thracian. Neither is Proto-Balto-Slavic the same as Slavic. The further you go back especially to the Proto-Balto-Slavic union, the difference with other indo european branches are far less so than is the case today. Also none of the thracians or illyrians discovered, or the ancient Greeks, had any I2a-Din/or R1a Z280/M458. The only R1a was the bronze age thracian. Even then, no one belongs to that branch. Certainly not common in Slavs any ways. From a a paternal Y standpoint, So far Slavs are not connected to any of them. Only very anciently with the M417 split with the Z93 Thracian. Also, from a autosomal standpoint, the illyrians and Thracians were Italian,Albanian Greek like. Less in the case of Balkan Slavs, and near non-existent in West or East Slavs.

What is more probable and likely is that Proto-Balto-Slavs were closer to the Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians before they left the steppes. Proto-Balto-Slavs were likely akin to Proto-Thracians and Proto-Dacians, representing northern cousins that never migrated to the Balkans. Only with the fragile state of Rome, and the collapse of these peoples did the Sklaveni migrate South. They likely were always dealing with Daco-Thracians on the far northern border with them. Also, Most scholars acknowledge not all Illyrians were homogenous. They also likely were not linguistically connected in a recent sense either. Possibly branching out from the rest with the breakup of Indo-European.

Perhaps some Geto-Dacians/Free Dacians that migrated north of the Danube formed a base for what would become Proto-Slavic. But in all likliehood they're distantly related and are merely northern cousins of the Thracians and Dacians, not those people themselves. Genetics/Archaeology will trump propaganda every time. So far Illyrians were R1b/J2/V13(all found predominantly in Albanians), Proto-Greeks were J2a, predominantly found in Greeks, and R1a-Z93 in a Bronze Age, likely Proto-Thracian grave(which is not recently related to Balto-Slavic Z280/M458 but distantly(5-6 thousand ypb).

No one can deny South Slavs have Paleo-Balkan heritage, both autosomally, and through Y chromosome. Especially Bulgarians/Macedonians. However, to say All these paleo-balkan people were Slavic and further from Albanians and Greeks is about as propagandized as you can get. Whats more correct is that Proto-Balto-Slavs were ancestral cousins of Proto-Thracians/Proto-Dacians, only migrating as Proto-Slavs from the north much later, as opposed to their distant southern kin, who left the steppe before many of these lineages differentiated themselves.

R1a- Z93 you said it was from Tracian iron age, right?!

 

[Yetos]

....................................

 

[Dibran]

R1a- Z93 you said it was from Tracian iron age, right?!

Bronze age actually. Someone responded to you last page. It was before 1000BC. Genetically it came out North-European like. In all probability a Proto-Thracian.