Macedonians

[Johane Derite]

Hesiod marks Pieria as the homeland of Macedonians. And the archaeological record shows until 650BC only Phrygian and Illyrian culture. That is from Oxford, 2014

 

[markod]

Hesiod marks Pieria as the homeland of Macedonians. And the archaeological record shows until 650BC only Phrygian and Illyrian culture. That is from Oxford, 2014

Who says the Macedonians were there at that time?

 

[Yetos]

Hesiod marks Pieria as the homeland of Macedonians. And the archaeological record shows until 650BC only Phrygian and Illyrian culture. That is from Oxford, 2014

What?

I suggest look and search again Pieria,

why Pieria is in Argeiad Makedonia and Pierian gulf is in East Makedonia
What was Herakleia city?
Perdikas 1rst sent them to Paggaion
Perdikas is about 650 BC

Pieria of that Era had 3 parts,
East of Olympus, where we see Thracian orpheus Leivethra,
Makedonian Herakleia
Makedonian Πιμπλεια
Mycenean settlements

West of Olympus the Area of Selloi meaning Hellanes
and the Thettalian Olossoi

the south part of Pieria mt and the valley,
where Balla and Pydna cities where, both Makedonian
Interesting City is the Phylakes,

Above Pieria is the Ematheia. the land of kings, the Aigaes.

West of Pieria mt is the Ελυμεια and the Aiane,
42% of ancient Makedonian written are from there.
Elymeia is the Upper Makedonia,
an indipented Makedonian kingdom which needed to reach 3 centuries after karanos to enter under Argeiads.

In Upper Makedonia we have the third Linear writting simmilar to Linear A and Linear B.

Upper Makedonia was the area from Ohrida to Pindus, including parts of today call Epirus, or Epirus Nova,
In Upper Makedonia except Makedonians also existed Thracian tribes, which either assimilated until Makedonia of Phillip, or devastate North and East
Uper Makedonia is the core of proto-Greek speaking.

The early Makedonians are not the Makedonian kingdom, as in seen after Phillip 2nd,
rather a population that spoke primitive Greek, and dwell with other Thracian tribes, or Vucedol/Vatin tribes.


@ DERITE
PLS DO US ALL A FAVOR,
instead of posting us theories of before the late archaiological founds,I suggest find and post us something indeed old
For a lover of anticerie and antica books like you,
I suggest find Hesychious Lexicon, which is far older, and I am sure you will love it.
and post us the real Makedonian language as written down by Hesychios.
and then compare it with the manuscripts that we have from Makedonia.

Until then Bye Bye.

 

[Yetos]

According to R.A. Crossland, the phonological features that Macedonian has would have required it to split off from the paleo-balkan branch before Mycenean even existed. That is far too distant to be called para-greek.

Likewise, the archeological reality of Macedonia is that there is no real mycenean presence, and the grave culture is illyrian and phrygian.

And the Curtius Rufus quote have a different opinion to you on. If it was just a dialect, there would be no mention of "learning" it.

@ DERITE
PLS DO US ALL A FAVOR,
instead of posting us theories of before the late archaiological founds,I suggest find and post us something indeed old
For a lover of anticerie and antica books like you,
I suggest find Hesychious Lexicon, which is far older antica, and I am sure you will love it.
and post us the real Makedonian language as written down by Hesychios.
and then compare it with the manuscripts that we have from Makedonia.

Until then Bye Bye.


as for the written at last phases of Alexander's campaign.
you will understand when you find Hesychios Lexicon,
First Find and learn Makedonian language,
as written down in Lexicons and manuscripts,
and post us these books,

man I maybe know 10% of their Vocabulary
and you probably know less than 1%
and some of these scholars maybe never hear Makedonian Dialect.
or even see it written down.

Bye bye again

 

[Piro Ilir]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_I_of_Macedon

Notice that Alexander 1rst killed Megabazos ambassadors,
Gave his sister wife to Persians, to eumenize them,
worked as anbassador for Xerxes
But betray Persians and gives information about Mardonios,
Alexandros 1rst makes all the 'dirty work', Leonidas and Themistokles get the glory.
PhilHellen also means patriot, and is a title given by Atheneans.
his story is a stressed life of coalition or hostility with Persians.

Notice when you speak about Ancient Greeks, the status can not be compared as today modern states,
Each city was a state of its own, When Romans came, Greek states divided, some allied Rome, etc etc.

The myth about Argead dynasty was only written and drawn during the reign of Alexander I of Macedon, soon after the Persian-Hellenic wars. Only afterwards we have the Argead dynasty allowed to participate in Olympic games. Their Greek heritage was testified by Herodotus himself.
In simple words, only after the vital service given to Greeks by Alexander I the philhellene, his dynasty was accepted as Hellenic.

 

[Piro Ilir]

I will stay at the one bold,
he is not a Greek,
BUT he is not a Barbarian also

Hahaha

good morning,
you make my day,

Actually, it means typically, Illyrian. Among barbarians, the Illyrians were the most savages ones.
Not all barbarians were not illiterate and uncivilized. Otherwise, Illyrians were totally uncivilized, illiterate, and super barbarian

 

[Piro Ilir]

They could well be Phrygian people if foreign not Greek,there is similar tribe of Mygdones with little difference than Makedones.Either Phrygian or Thracian in origin.

In myth on the slope of mount Bermion the Phrygian king Midas garden was located,that is where Macedonian royalty will emerge,in history the region was known as Emathia,Thrace and Paeonian even in times of Xerxes when he marched trough Chalcidice to Therma.

Myths;
Mygdon of Phrygia ally of king Priam
Mygdon son of Ares eponym of Mygdones and so on.

It seems that Macedonians if Greeks were much later immigrants into the land.

The history of Macedonia may be said to begin with Amyntas' reign 540 – 498 BC . He was the first of its rulers to have diplomatic relations with other states.
The rest of the kings seem mythical about the Argead dynasty.If we are to believe this story we should accept the Argeads as later immigrants in the land.

If it was from Peloponese Argos or Argos Orestikon in upper Macedonia? Seems that in the myth they are connected to Argos in Peloponese,made up or not that is how they claimed Greek ancestry.

In the time of when the myth was invented, Macedons were an unimportant tribe vassal of Persia. Their Royal house invented this myth for political reasons. The same did the Dorians when they settled in Peloponnese. Attica, Beotia, and Peloponnese were the cradle of civilization.

Ancient Illyrians and Greeks were the opposite of the ancient world. Illyrians the most back warded , and the Greeks the most civilised. What you're excepting from Macedonian Royal house to do? Claiming descent from Illyrians, whom had no written records and whether not any historicity on their origins!!! Or they should claim to be part of the mighty Hellenisms!!!

 

[Piro Ilir]

Who says the Macedonians were there at that time?

Their founding myth of their Royal dynasty. According to them, their dynasty was founded circa eighth century bce

 

[RagnarofMacedon]

Man is clear what that means , you can tell me now like 20 more meanings , but there is Hellene and Philhellene , One is Greek with Greek Culture and language second is Non-greek who accepted Greek culture and language...So simple, but no you will go further and thats mean patriot...If in that time that kind of word existed, anyways patriot for which Country ?When first country in europe is Macedonia all rest were greek city-states also occupied by Macedonians ?1.
PATRIOT a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

We all know that 50,000 Greeks fight with Persians against Macedonians and Alexander , for which part of land for what country ?I dont get it patriot if they were opposites , if they killed each other... ?Alexander and Macedonians killed so much Greeks thats nowdays is funny for Greeks to celebrate Macedonians and Alexander, That like jews to celebrate Hitler and set statue of him in Tel-Aviv...

 

[Dianatomia]

Man is clear what that means , you can tell me now like 20 more meanings , but there is Hellene and Philhellene , One is Greek with Greek Culture and language second is Non-greek who accepted Greek culture and language...

A philhellene is not someone who accepted the Greek culture and language. It is someone who loves the Greeks or the Greek cause. It could be non-Greek, like lord Byron in modern times, but in Ancient times the term meant patriot. Someone who put the Greek ethnos above his state. Both Greeks and non-Greeks were described as Philhellenes.

 

[Dianatomia]

In the time of when the myth was invented, Macedons were an unimportant tribe vassal of Persia. Their Royal house invented this myth for political reasons. The same did the Dorians when they settled in Peloponnese. Attica, Beotia, and Peloponnese were the cradle of civilization.

Ancient Illyrians and Greeks were the opposite of the ancient world. Illyrians the most back warded , and the Greeks the most civilised. What you're excepting from Macedonian Royal house to do? Claiming descent from Illyrians, whom had no written records and whether not any historicity on their origins!!! Or they should claim to be part of the mighty Hellenisms!!!

This is speculation absent evidence.
Also not quite realistic that the Ancient Macedonians, the people who conquered the known world were ashamed of their origins. And they left no sign of their Illyrian ancestry. Also, their material culture resembled Homeric Greeks and unlike Ancient Macedonian, we can clearly distinguish Illyrian from Greek.

 

[RagnarofMacedon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_I_of_Macedon

Notice that Alexander 1rst killed Megabazos ambassadors,
Gave his sister wife to Persians, to eumenize them,
worked as anbassador for Xerxes
But betray Persians and gives information about Mardonios,
Alexandros 1rst makes all the 'dirty work', Leonidas and Themistokles get the glory.
PhilHellen also means patriot, and is a title given by Atheneans.
his story is a stressed life of coalition or hostility with Persians.

Notice when you speak about Ancient Greeks, the status can not be compared as today modern states,
Each city was a state of its own, When Romans came, Greek states divided, some allied Rome, etc etc.

So terminology is clear , you can create whatever you want , anyways , in all history events Macedonians and Grecians were considered like different ethnicities , so from Ancient Historians...

View attachment 11033View attachment 11034View attachment 11035
Like here Book by Charles Rollin - a French Historian born in 1661. View attachment 11036
View attachment 11037

 

[RagnarofMacedon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_I_of_Macedon

Notice that Alexander 1rst killed Megabazos ambassadors,
Gave his sister wife to Persians, to eumenize them,
worked as anbassador for Xerxes
But betray Persians and gives information about Mardonios,
Alexandros 1rst makes all the 'dirty work', Leonidas and Themistokles get the glory.
PhilHellen also means patriot, and is a title given by Atheneans.
his story is a stressed life of coalition or hostility with Persians.

Notice when you speak about Ancient Greeks, the status can not be compared as today modern states,
Each city was a state of its own, When Romans came, Greek states divided, some allied Rome, etc etc.

Like every important Historian's statement is different than Greeks...
Like Lecture by Prof.Kenneth W.Harl "The World of Early Macedon" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsqyzECK7xs
Like Eugene Borza
Arthur de Cobineau
Even your Metropolite of Florina Augustinos Kandiotis
British Historian Marko Attila Hoare

 

[RagnarofMacedon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_I_of_Macedon

Notice that Alexander 1rst killed Megabazos ambassadors,
Gave his sister wife to Persians, to eumenize them,
worked as anbassador for Xerxes
But betray Persians and gives information about Mardonios,
Alexandros 1rst makes all the 'dirty work', Leonidas and Themistokles get the glory.
PhilHellen also means patriot, and is a title given by Atheneans.
his story is a stressed life of coalition or hostility with Persians.

Notice when you speak about Ancient Greeks, the status can not be compared as today modern states,
Each city was a state of its own, When Romans came, Greek states divided, some allied Rome, etc etc.

Look on this statement , also very logical thing , Slavs also arrived on Territory of Greece, Thessaly , Aegea Macedonia, Central Greece , Peleponnesoss and many other islands...

"T[FONT=&quot]here are some differences between all countries, but in general the Slavs also made their way to Greece. We do not draw up statistics any more, but the last data i remember showed that the amount of Slavs in Macedonia is only a little bit higher than in Greece. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Roman C. Scholz[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]iGENEA[/FONT]
[email protected]
www.igenea.com

So yes logic , if Macedonians are Slavs,a would say same for Greeks... Except "PONTIC" Greeks who are Turks...Anyway there is Epirus Greek,Macedonia Greek, Thessaly Greek, Crete Greek ,Pontic Greek , thats all mean not real Greeks....
Cheers.

 

[markod]

Their founding myth of their Royal dynasty. According to them, their dynasty was founded circa eighth century bce

They were little more than Doric herdsmen until Philipp II. . Tribes have dynasties too.

 

[RagnarofMacedon]

A philhellene is not someone who accepted the Greek culture and language. It is someone who loves the Greeks or the Greek cause. It could be non-Greek, like lord Byron in modern times, but in Ancient times the term meant patriot. Someone who put the Greek ethnos above his state. Both Greeks and non-Greeks were described as Philhellenes.

Of course that mean patriot , φιλέλλην, from φίλος - philos, "friend" + Έλλην - Hellen, "Greek , FRIEND OF GREEKS OR GREEK-FRIEND.

Also what you thing about Lecture The World of Early Macedon ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsqyzECK7xs&t=1s
Or you can skip on 08:35 ?
Or just watch it all...
And stop with your delusions already ,very good Profesors and Historians says opposite than your delusions , there is so much manipulating and inaccurate history set by Westerns... Also

The first ,,greek" President was Albanian and the first ,,greek" king was German.A nation is created by western powers to act as a buffer against the Muslims,today mixture of ethnicities call themselves ,,pure Hellenes".


Your History is Macedonian , DNA Turkish, first king Otto German,first president Albanian...

 

[LABERIA]

The myth about Argead dynasty was only written and drawn during the reign of Alexander I of Macedon, soon after the Persian-Hellenic wars. Only afterwards we have the Argead dynasty allowed to participate in Olympic games. Their Greek heritage was testified by Herodotus himself.
In simple words, only after the vital service given to Greeks by Alexander I the philhellene, his dynasty was accepted as Hellenic.

And why these Macedonian barbarians were not allowed to participate in the Olympic Games before Alexander I? Obviously mine is a rhetorical question.

 

[blevins13]

Of course that mean patriot , φιλέλλην, from φίλος - philos, "friend" + Έλλην - Hellen, "Greek , FRIEND OF GREEKS OR GREEK-FRIEND.

Also what you thing about Lecture The World of Early Macedon ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsqyzECK7xs&t=1s
Or you can skip on 08:35 ?
Or just watch it all...
And stop with your delusions already ,very good Profesors and Historians says opposite than your delusions , there is so much manipulating and inaccurate history set by Westerns... Also

The first ,,greek" President was Albanian and the first ,,greek" king was German.A nation is created by western powers to act as a buffer against the Muslims,today mixture of ethnicities call themselves ,,pure Hellenes".
View attachment 11042View attachment 11043

Your History is Macedonian , DNA Turkish, first king Otto German,first president Albanian...

George Konduriottea was a philhellenes, therefor a Greek......


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[Yetos]

Look on this statement , also very logical thing , Slavs also arrived on Territory of Greece, Thessaly , Aegea Macedonia, Central Greece , Peleponnesoss and many other islands...

"There are some differences between all countries, but in general the Slavs also made their way to Greece. We do not draw up statistics any more, but the last data i remember showed that the amount of Slavs in Macedonia is only a little bit higher than in Greece.

Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
[email protected]
www.igenea.com

So yes logic , if Macedonians are Slavs,a would say same for Greeks... Except "PONTIC" Greeks who are Turks...Anyway there is Epirus Greek,Macedonia Greek, Thessaly Greek, Crete Greek ,Pontic Greek , thats all mean not real Greeks....
Cheers.

Ragna
still not convincing,

I know the %,
and i my shelf written them down

but Makedonians are not Slavs,
a part Roman Makedonia, outside the core of Makedonia Proprie is occupied and assimilated by S Slavs,
and become a country, due to Vlachs of Krusevo, who did not want to be Bulgarians, neither Serbs,

the Idea of 'Makedonian identity mainly expressed by Aromani of Krusevo, and you know it well.
Nie bulgar, nie Serb, patrik e Makedonia Orthodox
So If S Slavs and Communist international of g Dimitrov, found wise to baptise a part of S Slavs as Makedonians, to avoid further,
this has nothing to do with truth,

To understand Makedonia proprie,
bellow is an aproach of Argeiades, and Lokroi (Uper)

that is Makedonia proprie,

Notice Bottiaeoi are Creatns,
Mygdones is the remnant of Bryges,
The rest is expansion and assimilation, through centuries, of the tired and isolated Thracian and para Thracian tribes


Yet even in this map I have precaution,
for example the Selloi, and the Ollossoi,
that is Makedonia proprie,

 

[Yetos]

George Konduriottea was a philhellenes, there for a Greek......


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

termination of philos, change though centuries,
as termination of Daemon
Just what you think when you hear the word Deamon,

besides for DEMOSTHENES and Atheneans (tittle Phillelen was given by Atheneans)
Philippos was not a Greek, but neither was Barbarian.