Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

Garrick said:
(E-V13 carriers in Europe, Anatolia and Middle East surely once had their own languages, and these languages probably were Afro Asiatics, but these languages are extinct).
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It all depends where E-V13 was mutated (born) and the language acquired in that region when that happened.. It probably happened with all other haplogroups (except for the R's maybe). The various subclades would mutate in regions different to were the original breakaway from the downstream group.

It is true that in modern Albanian we have Afro Asiatic words but from this perspective it is hard to tell if it is the effect from E-V13 carriers or these are some much later influences.
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Ed. Please tell me how E-V13 in Greece has influenced Greek in regards to Afro Asiatic languages and all the other languages it has high percentages in? Or is it just a matter of Albania?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Semitic_languages
 
Maleth said:
Garrick it seems you have been fixated on this subject for quite a long while. It seems at the time you were not aware of the migration differences between the Berber E-M81 and the Balkan E-V13 :grin:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...anians-E-haplogroup-and-linguistic-similarity
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Like R1's in central europe and the balkans , it seems E haplogroup came there "late" that is,around middle Neolithic times. No E marker has been found in early Neolithic in the Balkans or central Europe............I find this very puzzling if E has origins in Africa or the middle-East.
Was E intension to run along north-africa to Morrocco and into Spain and another to be content with living in the levant !
 
Maleth said:
Garrick it seems you have been fixated on this subject for quite a long while. It seems at the time you were not aware of the migration differences between the Berber E-M81 and the Balkan E-V13 :grin:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...anians-E-haplogroup-and-linguistic-similarity
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No Maleth, probably you didn't understand.

I had discussions with other members of forum, especially with LeBrok, and these discussions are very worthy. Unfortunately many languages has disappeared.

You can see:

http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/enduring-voices/

By 2100, more than half of the more than 7,000 languages spoken on Earth—many of them not yet recorded—may disappear, taking with them a wealth of knowledge about history, culture, the natural environment, and the human brain.

...
What did I want to grasp? Extinct languages of haplogroup I. But there are very little data. You saw thread about Nuragic civilization, almost opened. I gave question whether Nuragic language is one of languages of I carriers. It would be wonderful if it is true.

Same thing for languages of haplogroup E-V13. You can notice, maybe I'm one of E-V13 carriers, maybe no, probability exists. I was wondering where we can search languages or at least words of E-V13 languages. In Greece? In Romanian? In Bulgarian/Serbian/Croatian? Etc. Where?

I read some Albanian researches who wanted to find link between Albanian and Afro Asiatic languages (mostly Coptic and Ancient Egyptian). It would be nice that some words of E-V13 carriers saved in Albanian, and it is possible! Of course Albanian is IE language.

But I didn't find appropriate dictionary of Coptic language. Because I have African friends, they helped me to come to Berber words. From this perspective I don't know if I've done something. Albanians wrote that some words which I gave came from Islamic sources transferred from the Turks.

I believe that some words in Albanian came from E-V13 carriers. Maybe some words of E-V13 carriers are in other languages. Maybe Pelasgian has link with E-V13 carriers, but it has no link with Albanian, forerunner of Albanian is not language of E-V13 carriers but language of R1b ht35 (Armenian haplotype) and maybe R1a carriers etc. Forerunner of Albanian created in Caucasus or near.

We don't know if some words of E-V13 carriers exist in Albanian or any another IE language. But since this is possible it is open for contributions.
 
Sile said:
Like R1's in central europe and the balkans , it seems E haplogroup came there "late" that is,around middle Neolithic times. No E marker has been found in early Neolithic in the Balkans or central Europe............I find this very puzzling if E has origins in Africa or the middle-East.
Was E intension to run along north-africa to Morrocco and into Spain and another to be content with living in the levant !
Click to expand...

There are no studies yet on Balkan Neolithic sites. The results we have are Alps and above. If there were please let me know it will be interesting. As for the rest I did not quite understand your question. There is E-M81 prevalent in high percentages in North Africa and E-V13 which is prevalent in the the Balkans. Their migration has nothing to do with each other for thousands of years. What is your question exactly?
 
Maleth said:
Ed. Please tell me how E-V13 in Greece has influenced Greek in regards to Afro Asiatic languages and all the other languages it has high percentages in? Or is it just a matter of Albania?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Semitic_languages
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We can search Afro Asiatic words in all languages in the Balkans, and beyond. I tried in Serbian. Let everyone tries in him/her own language. However Albanian is interesting because some Albanians have sought a connection. You know, there are Albanians who think that they are descendants of Ancient Egyptians.

Maybe, the part of problem is that Serbian, Bulgarian, etc. are classified as Balto Slavic, Romanian as classified as Romance, etc. but Albanian is different from all other categories IE languages, and it is natural that people are looking for a connection with other languages, not only with IE. For example Giuseppe Catapano (Arbresh) wrote the book "Thot Parlava Albanese", seeking connection Albanian and Egyptian (Coptic) which published in Rome in Italian.

Albanian has some words which someone can think they can be derived from ancient Egypt or North Africa, if it is coincidence or not, everyone can concludes for himself/herself. But here, I do not talk about it more.
 
Sile said:
the 69 ancient samples from page 25 does not contain any E haplogroup. the chart is only for these 69 samples.

Your E sample on page 49 is from a previous study by Lacan in 2011

just use page 23 with page 25 and you will be ok
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Yes from Lacan 2011, however they have used this data that they already had to make computations (and for new skeletons they have done new dna plus used the data afterwards)

I think one E-V13 is used if we count the samples from fig 4.2 and 4.3 then there are around 69 samples.
 
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Garrick said:
Two New Zealand scientists, with new computational methods found that Albanian has same root as Indic and Iranian languages!
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Sorry to break this, but you have misrepresented the whole study...please read below (and you haven't answered the questions below)


Originally Posted by Garrick
New Zealand scientists used new computational-modeling method. Their result is that Albanian has same root as Indic and Iranic language.


noUseForAname
I have found your source (although i asked 3 times to send the source and not just the picture)
You have misrepresented this source (see below) from (Russell D. Gray 2003 year) for the following reasons. I will interpret this study (although more recent studies of 2012 and 2015 show more details)

1: Albanian language is not a subgroup of indic/Iranian (see table below). If it would have been a subgroup then it would fall inside Indic/Iranic
2: Indic/Iranic split 4,600 years ago (own separate branch), Albanian split 6,000 years ago (own separate branch). Colours show separate branches (read the whole source in details please)
3: On the other side Greek and Armenian split 6,800 years ago (therefore own Branch), although it mentions Greek only 800 years old (probably this is only for the modern Greek and not ancient Greek). And Albanian 600 years old (probably this is only for a modern Albanian)
4: The main language groupings are colourcoded. Branch lengths are proportional to the inferred maximum-likelihood estimates ofevolutionary change per cognate....
5: For example *Italic also includes the French/Iberian subgroup, So Italic main branch and subgroups are French/Iberian.
6: So the main groups branches (from older to recent) are: Anatolian, Tocharian, Armenian, Greek, Albanian, Iranian (Indo-Iranian), Indic (indo-Iranian), Slavic, Baltic, Germanic, Italic.....

Now my question to you is: Why the study then shows Albanian as its own Main branch?
Did you even read the source or you just found that pic and wanted to be one sided no matter what?


F1.large.jpg



Garrick
My assumption is that Albanian originated somewhere in between (today's) Caucasus, northern Iran and eastern Turkey. I suppose that carriers of R1b ht35 (Armenian haplotype), J2 and probably R1a created this language. Albanian is Indo-European, Satem.


noUseForAname
1:Majority of current Albanians descend from E-V13 (over 40%) how can they originate from Caucus area? (we are not talking about the language here)
2:It is a possibility that Yamna R1b majority 4,000 years ago spread PEI to those regions, as Albanians currently have 18.6% R1b and R1a only 5%
3:It is also a possibility that J2 through Yamna 4,000 ago spread PEI, however this is not supported with the recent (major scale dna study) because Yamna were mostly R1b.
4: Maciamo notes that current Ukrainians have J2a from Greek ancestry, therefore it came to Greek regions much later then E-V13 and R1b because J2a never moved across Yamna (only Yamns brought PEI). J2a must have crossed through current Turkey but definitely didnt brought PEI with them. If J2 moved there at earlier say around 3,000 years ago it should have already found E-V113 and R1b, that is why E-V13 and R1b at Albanians have over 60% together. Currently J2 is 18%.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-Europe/page22

So once again how can Albanians Originate from Caucus when altogether E-V13 R1b and I2 = 77.5%


QUOTE=Garrick;458186]What I wrote:
Albanian and Indic & Iranic languages split 6000 years ago, according them. But it split from Indic & Iranic languages, not from Armenian, or Slavic, or Celtic.


noUseForAname
Incorrect, According to the source Albanian is before Indic/Iranic, 6: So the main groups branches (from older to recent) are: Anatolian, Tocharian, Armenian, Greek, Albanian, Iranian (Indo-Iranian), Indic (indo-Iranian), Slavic, Baltic, Germanic, Italic.....
Therefore Albanian is split 6,200 years, on the other side Indic/Iranic 4,600 years ago (Check the source below with years noted)
All those main Languages (colorized) are split as a main separate branches from indo-European.
https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Us...ayAtkinson.pdf


Garrick
It is possible that proto Albanian originated from area Caucasus, today’s eastern Turkey and northern Iran. And it is possible that population who spoke proto Albanian moved over land in the region around Black sea to the Moldavia (Southern Ukraine/Romania). And this population mixed in with E-V13 carriers who were numerous in the area where these two populations merged (maybe in this area E-V13 is numerous and today).


If language came from somewhere that doesn't mean all the people too (it might be by smaller numbers), in this case we have E-V13 over 40% + !2 and !1 to 57.5%, lets say most R1b (with 20%) brought PEI, and it cannot be before 6,000 years ago cause thats when they migrated through Yamna. So population might grew for another 20% to 77.5%. And then J2 came later with 18%. Those are current dna numbers at it makes pretty much sense this way.

Therefore arguing that Albanian originated from Caucus is wrong, because its language could have originated from there (like all the other PEI languages), and if we are supposing that R1b brought PEI from around today Caucus north Mesopotamia and north east Anatolia.

Thats why i asked you and am asking you again how can current Albanians originated (not language) from Caucus when altogether E-V13 R1b and I2 = 77.5%


Garrick
Dienekes once wrote that J2 carriers entered very late in Albanian substratum in area present-day Albania.


noUseForAname
Yes i think too J2 entered much later and in small numbers, thats why its 18%

Garrick
Albanian has same root as Indic languages (for example Kashmiri) and Iranian languages (for example Baluchi), which can means, if they’re right, that proto Albanian was more to the east far from the Armenian.


noUseForAname
Baluchi?....you seem not to understand the basics (although i explained everything above)

Albanian is split 6,200 years as a separate and own branch from PEI, on the other side Indic/Iranic 4,600 years ago (according to study)...just read above my explanation and check the study and years.....hope you understand by now.

https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Us...ayAtkinson.pdf
 
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Garrick said:
Generally considered Albanian to be the closest to Armenian.

Two New Zealand scientists, with new computational methods found that Albanian has same root as Indic and Iranian languages
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In addition, New Zealand scientist source you have placed Russell D. Gray & Quentin D. Atkinson, University of Auckland, New Zealand

Came upon this video of PEI spread, tell me if you see if Albanian has same root as indic and Iranian nor even Armenian LOL


<strong>


http://www.sciencealert.com/watch-this-map-shows-how-indo-european-languages-may-have-evolved
https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/tuitekj/MonDepotPublic/cours/IE/GrayAtkinson.pdf



Therefore you have completely misrepresented the source you have placed
 
Garrick said:
I read some Albanian researches who wanted to find link between Albanian and Afro Asiatic languages (mostly Coptic and Ancient Egyptian). It would be nice that some words of E-V13 carriers saved in Albanian, and it is possible! Of course Albanian is IE language.
Click to expand...

E-V13 has been mutated much prior to classic Egypt and personally I do not believe that E-V13 men formed some kind of homogeneous tribe but rather was mutated in an already haplogroup mixed kind of society. Also the mutation has happened in a completely different geographical region of the world. The connection is just fancy full if you know what I mean. They have better chances to connect to ancient people of the area such as Thracians and Illyrians and others in the area. Everyone will be thrilled to be connected to great civilizations such as those of Egypt, but one has to be logical. The E folks in Egypt (M78) and E-V13 might have had a common ancestor some 17,000 years ago, which is a very very long time.


Albanians wrote that some words which I gave came from Islamic sources transferred from the Turks.
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Much more plausible, just like the semetic words found in modern Spanish and Sicilian dialect. A result of being influenced by a more recent occupation rather then carried by an ancient haplogroup.
 
Garrick said:
Albanian 2nd is not mean Albanian in the Balkan origin is 2nd, it is big difference, geographical area of origin could be Anatolia, the Caucasus, Moldavia etc./QUOTE]
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Of course it means (according to the source) Albanian 2nd and Greek 3rd (balkan origin 10,000). For the following reasons. I am not concluding the study is.

They are concluding that the most current (in highest %) populations that descends directly from early Neolithic European inhabitants (early European farmers) and WHG are: from 10,000 ybp
1: Sardinian
2: Albanian
3: Greek
4: Spanish
5: Bergamo
6: Basque

Study argues that those populations who have near easter component are ashkenazi Jews, Maltese, Sicilians etc
There you go its all here


Table S9.3: Populations that improve resnorm for European outlier populations when added to a model of EN/WHG/EHG admixture as a 4th ancestral population. We show the top 20 populations that reduce resnorm the most when added to the mixture model. For Maltese, Sicilians, and Ashkenazi Jews these populations tend to be from the Middle East and North Africa

Maltese Sicilian Ashkenazi Jew

4th anc. pop. resnorm 4th anc. pop. resnorm 4th anc. pop.resnorm
Moroccan_Jew 0.000006 Turkish_Jew 0.000006 Cypriot 0.000006
Lebanese 0.000010 Cypriot 0.000006 Iraqi_Jew 0.000018
Syrian 0.000010 Moroccan_Jew 0.000009 Turkish_Jew 0.000018
Tunisian_Jew 0.000011 Druze 0.000012 Moroccan_Jew 0.000020
Saudi 0.000014 Iraqi_Jew 0.000012 Druze 0.000025
Turkish_Jew 0.000016 Syrian 0.000014 Lebanese 0.000027
Libyan_Jew 0.000017 Lebanese 0.000016 Syrian 0.000028
Jordanian 0.000017 Tunisian_Jew 0.000019 Tunisian_Jew 0.000037
Palestinian 0.000019 Saudi 0.000021 Saudi 0.000039
Druze 0.000022 Jordanian 0.000022 Iranian_Jew 0.000039
Yemenite_Jew 0.000022 Libyan_Jew0.000025 Jordanian 0.000039
BedouinB 0.000022 Palestinian 0.000026 Palestinian 0.000044
BedouinA 0.000023 BedouinB 0.000027 Libyan_Jew 0.000044
Tunisian 0.000024 Yemenite_Jew 0.000028 Yemenite_Jew 0.000045
Mozabite 0.000024 Tunisian 0.000028 BedouinB 0.000045
Algerian 0.000025 Mozabite 0.000028 BedouinA 0.000046
Egyptian 0.000025 BedouinA 0.000028 Tunisian 0.000046
Saharawi 0.000026 Egyptian 0.000028 Egyptian 0.000046
Yemen 0.000028 Algerian 0.000029 Mozabite 0.000047
Esan 0.000030 Saharawi 0.000029 Algerian 0.000047


Check the Figure S9.27 (pg 124) please, Albanians have:

0% Beduine (Which is of Near Eastern component)
77% EN (Early Neolithic)
2.2% Nagasan
3.3% WHG
17.5% YanmayaSo Albanians and Greeks actually don't even have a slightest % from the components of Near eastern farmers.

Fig. S9.24 shows that when WHG admixture is added to EN, residuals for most European populations are reduced, consistent with most Europeans not being descended from EN farmers of Europe. Four populations indicate no change in residuals: Sardinians are the population that is closest to early European farmers2,7-9,12 with an estimated ~ 90% descent from them. Albanians are second and Greeks third
(ref. 2 and Fig. S9.23b), while Maltese, Ashkenazi Jews, and Sicilians may have Near Eastern admixture not mediated via early European farmers2.

Therefore according to this study current Albanians are de facto a direct descent from Early Neolithic European farmers (10,000 ybp)
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noUseForAname said:
Therefore according to this study current Albanians are de facto a direct descent from Early Neolithic European farmers (10,000 ybp)
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And de facto, so are all Europeans. Keep in mind that Early Neolithic European Farmers are, de factor, the descendants of Early Near Eastern Farmers. Just keep in mind that Early Near Eastern Farmers are not exactly the same as today's Near Eastern Farmers. Just like today's Europeans are not exactly the same as Neolithic or Mesolithic Europeans. We are a mixture of few distinct populations.
And so is everybody on Earth.
 
LeBrok said:
And de facto, so are all Europeans. Keep in mind that Early Neolithic European Farmers are, de factor, the descendants of Early Near Eastern Farmers. Just keep in mind that Early Near Eastern Farmers are not exactly the same as today's Near Eastern Farmers. Just like today's Europeans are not exactly the same as Neolithic or Mesolithic Europeans. We are a mixture of few distinct populations.
And so is everybody on Earth.
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Yes of course all the rest of European descend (some with higher some with lower %) from Early European Farmers as their all mixed, however i was arguing that highest percentages with descend from Early European Farmers are:
1: Sardinian
2: Albanian
3: Greek
4: Spanish
5: Bergamo
6: Basque
etc....

now if we go back before 10,000 those Early European farmers either came from Africa or near east or near easter famers (probably is near eastern farmers) as the first farming was fond i think in north east Africa and a place in today Israel (cant remember the name)....there it is below.....

Recent discoveries in Europe, such as Cyprus and mainland Greece has shown that farming started early in south east Europe. In Franchthi Cavein Greece there are no certain gathering of plant foods attested before c. 11,000 bc, although large numbers of seeds of the Boraginaceae family may come from plants gathered to furnish soft bedding or for the dye which their roots may have supplied. First appearing at c. 11,000bc are lentils, vetch, pistachios, and almonds. Then c. 10,500bc appear a few very rare seeds of wild oats and wild barley. Neither wild oats nor wild barley become at all common until c. 7000bc[19][20] in Cyprus. The oldest agricultural settlement ever found on a Mediterranean island has been discovered in Klimonas. between 9100 and 8600 bc

Anthropological and archaeological evidence from sites across Southwest Asia and North Africa indicate use of wild grain (e.g., from the c. 20,000b c site ofOhalo II in Israel, many Natufian sites in the Levant and from sites along the Nile in the 10th millennium bc).
It was not until after 9500 bc that the eight so-called founder crops of agriculture appear: first emmer and einkorn wheat, then hulled barley, peas,lentils,bitter vetch, chick peas and flax. These eight crops occur more or less simultaneously on Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) sites in the Levant
By 7000 bc, sowing and harvesting reached Mesopotamia.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture

What i understand is not the near East (considering Syria, Anatolia, Mesopotamia) but the far north east Africa (M-78 peak) and the very south west Levant like Ohalo.

So that might mean that by 10,000 BC there was already farming in the far south east Balkans that came from north east Africa and the far south west Levant.

It looks like the peak was south east Africa which at the same time spread in one direction at Crete and then Peloponnese (reaching south East Europe without going across through Levant and Anatolia) and the other group spread through Levant Syria and reached Mesopotamia by 7,000 BC.
 

By far the highest rates of IBD within any populations is found between Albanian speakers—around 90 ancestors from 0–500 ya, and around 600 ancestors from 500–1,500 ya (so high that we left them out of Figure 5; see Figure S12). Beyond 1,500 ya, the rates of IBD drop to levels typical for other populations in the eastern grouping.

The highest levels of IBD sharing are found in the Albanian-speaking individuals (from Albania and Kosovo), an increase in common ancestry deriving from the last 1,500 years. This suggests that a reasonable proportion of the ancestors of modern-day Albanian speakers (at least those represented in POPRES) are drawn from a relatively small, cohesive population that has persisted for at least the last 1,500 years. These individuals share similar but slightly higher numbers of common ancestors with nearby populations than do individuals in other parts of Europe (see Figure S3), implying that these Albanian speakers have not been a particularly isolated population so much as a small one. Furthermore, our Greek and Macedonian samples share much higher numbers of common ancestors with Albanian speakers than with other neighbors, possibly a result of historical migrations, or else perhaps smaller effects of the Slavic expansion in these populations. It is also interesting to note that the sampled Italians share nearly as much IBD with Albanian speakers as with each other. The Albanian language is a Indo-European language without other close relatives [53] that persisted through periods when neighboring languages were strongly influenced by Latin or Greek, suggesting an intriguing link between linguistic and genealogical history in this case.

The migration period.
One of the striking patterns we see is the relatively high level of sharing of IBD between pairs of individuals across eastern Europe, as high or higher than that observed within other, much smaller populations. This is consistent with these individuals having a comparatively large proportion of ancestry drawn from a relatively small population that expanded over a large geographic area. The “smooth” estimates of Figure 4 (and more generally Figures 5 and S17) suggest that this increase in ancestry stems from around 1,000–2,000 ya, since during this time pairs of eastern individuals are expected to share a substantial number of common ancestors, while this is only true of pairs of noneastern individuals if they are from the same population. For example, even individuals from widely separated eastern populations share about the same amount of IBD as do two Irish individuals (see Figure S3), suggesting that this ancestral population may have been relatively small.This evidence is consistent with the idea that these populations derive a substantial proportion of their ancestry from various groups that expanded during the “migration period” from the fourth through ninth centuries [51]. This period begins with the Huns moving into eastern Europe towards the end of the fourth century, establishing an empire including modern-day Hungary and Romania, and continues in the fifth century as various Germanic groups moved into and ruled much of the western Roman empire. This was followed by the expansion of the Slavic populations into regions of low population density beginning in the sixth century, reaching their maximum by the 10th century [52]. The eastern populations with high rates of IBD are highly coincident with the modern distribution of Slavic languages, so it is natural to speculate that much of the higher rates were due to this expansion. The inclusion of (non-Slavic speaking) Hungary and Romania in the group of eastern populations sharing high IBD could indicate the effect of other groups (e.g., the Huns) on ancestry in these regions, or because some of the same group of people who elsewhere are known as Slavs adopted different local cultures in those regions. Greece and Albania are also part of this putative signal of expansion, which could be because the Slavs settled in part of these areas (with unknown demographic effect), or because of subsequent population exchange. However, additional work and methods would be needed to verify this hypothesis.


For instance, we could argue that the high degree of shared common ancestry among Albanian speakers was because most of these sampled originated from a small area rather than uniformly across Albania and Kosovo. However, this would not explain the high rate of IBD between Albanian speakers and neighboring populations. Even populations from which we only have one or two samples, which we at first assumed would be unusably noisy, provide generally reliable, consistent patterns, as evidenced by, for example, Figure S3.






bottom row is 2550-4335 years ago, you can see that Albanian is the red colour and sufficiently at the very high percentage then the others at 2550-4335 years ago.




http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555
 
Sile said:
Like R1's in central europe and the balkans , it seems E haplogroup came there "late" that is,around middle Neolithic times. No E marker has been found in early Neolithic in the Balkans or central Europe............I find this very puzzling if E has origins in Africa or the middle-East.
Was E intension to run along north-africa to Morrocco and into Spain and another to be content with living in the levant !
Click to expand...
Maybe this will help. https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/
E-V13 did not come from anywhere but the Balkans. Its immediate ancestors are Mesolithic Balkanic
 
noUseForAname said:
Garrick said:
E-V13 did not come from anywhere but the Balkans. Its immediate ancestors are Mesolithic Balkanic my friend this may help you tests done this year.




Of course it means (according to the source) Albanian 2nd and Greek 3rd (balkan origin 10,000). For the following reasons. I am not concluding the study is.

They are concluding that the most current (in highest %) populations that descends directly from early Neolithic European inhabitants (early European farmers) and WHG are: from 10,000 ybp
1: Sardinian
2: Albanian
3: Greek
4: Spanish
5: Bergamo
6: Basque

Study argues that those populations who have near easter component are ashkenazi Jews, Maltese, Sicilians etc
There you go its all here


Table S9.3: Populations that improve resnorm for European outlier populations when added to a model of EN/WHG/EHG admixture as a 4th ancestral population. We show the top 20 populations that reduce resnorm the most when added to the mixture model. For Maltese, Sicilians, and Ashkenazi Jews these populations tend to be from the Middle East and North Africa

Maltese Sicilian Ashkenazi Jew

4th anc. pop. resnorm 4th anc. pop. resnorm 4th anc. pop.resnorm
Moroccan_Jew 0.000006 Turkish_Jew 0.000006 Cypriot 0.000006
Lebanese 0.000010 Cypriot 0.000006 Iraqi_Jew 0.000018
Syrian 0.000010 Moroccan_Jew 0.000009 Turkish_Jew 0.000018
Tunisian_Jew 0.000011 Druze 0.000012 Moroccan_Jew 0.000020
Saudi 0.000014 Iraqi_Jew 0.000012 Druze 0.000025
Turkish_Jew 0.000016 Syrian 0.000014 Lebanese 0.000027
Libyan_Jew 0.000017 Lebanese 0.000016 Syrian 0.000028
Jordanian 0.000017 Tunisian_Jew 0.000019 Tunisian_Jew 0.000037
Palestinian 0.000019 Saudi 0.000021 Saudi 0.000039
Druze 0.000022 Jordanian 0.000022 Iranian_Jew 0.000039
Yemenite_Jew 0.000022 Libyan_Jew0.000025 Jordanian 0.000039
BedouinB 0.000022 Palestinian 0.000026 Palestinian 0.000044
BedouinA 0.000023 BedouinB 0.000027 Libyan_Jew 0.000044
Tunisian 0.000024 Yemenite_Jew 0.000028 Yemenite_Jew 0.000045
Mozabite 0.000024 Tunisian 0.000028 BedouinB 0.000045
Algerian 0.000025 Mozabite 0.000028 BedouinA 0.000046
Egyptian 0.000025 BedouinA 0.000028 Tunisian 0.000046
Saharawi 0.000026 Egyptian 0.000028 Egyptian 0.000046
Yemen 0.000028 Algerian 0.000029 Mozabite 0.000047
Esan 0.000030 Saharawi 0.000029 Algerian 0.000047


Check the Figure S9.27 (pg 124) please, Albanians have:

0% Beduine (Which is of Near Eastern component)
77% EN (Early Neolithic)
2.2% Nagasan
3.3% WHG
17.5% YanmayaSo Albanians and Greeks actually don't even have a slightest % from the components of Near eastern farmers.

Fig. S9.24 shows that when WHG admixture is added to EN, residuals for most European populations are reduced, consistent with most Europeans not being descended from EN farmers of Europe. Four populations indicate no change in residuals: Sardinians are the population that is closest to early European farmers2,7-9,12 with an estimated ~ 90% descent from them. Albanians are second and Greeks third
(ref. 2 and Fig. S9.23b), while Maltese, Ashkenazi Jews, and Sicilians may have Near Eastern admixture not mediated via early European farmers2.

Therefore according to this study current Albanians are de facto a direct descent from Early Neolithic European farmers (10,000 ybp)
Click to expand...
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/
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It would make sense considering that Gjergj Fishta the chronicler of Events at the time stated our ancestors came from the Black Sea. This would lend credence to the idea that the small tribal migration may have carried r1a1a, maybe one of the many markers carried by thracians, and assimilated the EV-13 populations. Many seem to think these migrations completely replaced everyone, but much like Syrian migrations into Europe today, it could have been small waves that assimilated the populations around them.
 
noUseForAname said:
Please read my earlier posts in this thread, because Albanians have the highest % of E-V13 in the world then it is very unlikely that they have come from north of Black Sea.
If you read more about E-V13 then you will have a better understanding.
On the other side even if lets say the Albanians were predominantly R1b, then its clearly not the dark age they came there....R1b passed by and settled in south east Balkans in small number i believe at least 5,000 years ago, earlier than western Europe which it is believed it went there 4,000 ago and found their home there.
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I am more inclined to believe that the Proto-Albanians represented by small migration waves, assimilated the EV-13 carriers. At least linguistically. This can be seen for example In Arab speaking Lebanese whom for the most part are descended from assimilated Phoenicians. Whom of course were not Arabic.

Much like the the south Slavs are not that genetically diverse from their Balkan neighbors. They assimilated the people's they found.

The writer Gjergj Fishta even made the claim that Albanians ancestor tribe descended from around the Black Sea.

Considering we have no maritime vocabulary, fewer Greek influences and more Latin influences, may place us as being near or around the Romanians. We have more linguistic words in common with them than the rest of our balkan neighbors. This may place the Albanians somewhere in Daco-Maoesia, and possibly from various migrations and invasions pushing us southward into albania. At least from the origin of the language itself.

Idk why so many Albanians want a link with Illyrians. They were squabbling tribes and barbarous with little to no points of unity aside from short lived teuta. More likely a Daco-Thracian connection. At least originally.

My own paternal haplogroup is R1a1a, and maternal is H11a.
 
mihaitzateo said:
Albanians should have been R1B and R1A clades people,I mean those who have spread Albanian language.
If you would look on some genetic testing of Albanian highlanders,they have higher R1A than Albanian low-landers.
That R1A can not be from Slavic speakers.
They came,conquered and assimilated E-V13 and J2 Neolithic people.
No idea to which group proto-Albanian speakers were included,they were and are Satem speakers,so they are from IE group with Slavs,Armenians,Iranians.
As for the tales of some Slavs,that they are descending from India,those are fairy tales.
Maybe proto-Albanian speakers were included between Thracians or who knows.
Proto-people from Balkans were neither Slavic neither Albanian speakers,they were E-v13 and J2 and I2 people.
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Considering the the huge list of words in common with Romanians, higher Latin influences and fewer Greek influences including fewer loan words between our neighbors, I am inclined to believe Albanians at least Proto-Albanians were nearer to Romanians before being pushed by invasions. At least linguistically this may be the case.

Daco-Maoesia may be the original dwelling of Proto-Albanian ancestors. At least from a linguistic stand point. Even Gjergj Fishta wrote that our ancestors hailed from somewhere near the Black Sea. I'm of the opinion that the original Albanians were either daco-maeosian or another Thracian tribe that migrated to its present place, carrying R1a1a And assimilating EV-13 populations.

My family are highlanders. Originally from Mirdita and migrated to Diber Vogel In the Martanesh region.

My mother is H11a and she is descended Gjon Buas Shpata more near to northern Epirus, before migrating to Puka Malsia. Her paternal grandmother carried the surname Pitsari which interestingly the common genetic relation with a Greek individual from Epirus on 23andMe had the surname Pitsaris.

My genetic composition was predominantly Greek, Albanian, and than Romanian(which I'm sure is not an exact science). I had a small admixture of Sicilian, Broadly Southern European, and Eastern European with a drop of Japanese lol.
 
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