Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

[LABERIA]

I am more inclined to believe that the Proto-Albanians represented by small migration waves, assimilated the EV-13 carriers. At least linguistically. This can be seen for example In Arab speaking Lebanese whom for the most part are descended from assimilated Phoenicians. Whom of course were not Arabic.

Much like the the south Slavs are not that genetically diverse from their Balkan neighbors. They assimilated the people's they found.

The writer Gjergj Fishta even made the claim that Albanians ancestor tribe descended from around the Black Sea.

Considering we have no maritime vocabulary, fewer Greek influences and more Latin influences, may place us as being near or around the Romanians. We have more linguistic words in common with them than the rest of our balkan neighbors. This may place the Albanians somewhere in Daco-Maoesia, and possibly from various migrations and invasions pushing us southward into albania. At least from the origin of the language itself.

Idk why so many Albanians want a link with Illyrians. They were squabbling tribes and barbarous with little to no points of unity aside from short lived teuta. More likely a Daco-Thracian connection. At least originally.

My own paternal haplogroup is R1a1a, and maternal is H11a.

Can you quote At Gjergj Fishta? Can you post a link?

 

[Dibran]

Can you quote At Gjergj Fishta? Can you post a link?

I need to ask my father again where he read this. I was hoping someone with knowledge on his writings could confirm the accuracy or lack thereof. Il get back to you when I receive an answer.

Peace.

 

[LABERIA]

It would make sense considering that Gjergj Fishta the chronicler of Events at the time stated our ancestors came from the Black Sea. This would lend credence to the idea that the small tribal migration may have carried r1a1a, maybe one of the many markers carried by thracians, and assimilated the EV-13 populations. Many seem to think these migrations completely replaced everyone, but much like Syrian migrations into Europe today, it could have been small waves that assimilated the populations around them.

Can you ask also your father what are this Events?
Just for curiosity, your father, speak Albanian?

 

[Angela]

If you can't post links to reputable historical or genetics papers, no one is interested. Is that clear?

 

[Dibran]

@Garrick

That is a pathetic attempt at trying to connect Albanians to the caucusus.

Albanians don't even call themselves Albanian. This is a title given by the Latin due to the alps. Scotland was once called Albania as well. Using your reasoning we are Scottish also?

You are drawing at straws. Even if we originally descended from the Caucasus, so to do many Balkan tribes in antiquity. The evidence still concludes that Slavs were the latest arrival; so not sure what you are trying to prove.

 

[Dibran]

If you can't post links to reputable historical or genetics papers, no one is interested. Is that clear?

Calm yourself. Never stated anything as fact and merely startng dialogue with fellow Albanians to see if they heard this claim and have any information on it yo substantiate the story. Is that clear?

 

[Dibran]

Of course it means (according to the source) Albanian 2nd and Greek 3rd (balkan origin 10,000). For the following reasons. I am not concluding the study is.

They are concluding that the most current (in highest %) populations that descends directly from early Neolithic European inhabitants (early European farmers) and WHG are: from 10,000 ybp
1: Sardinian
2: Albanian
3: Greek
4: Spanish
5: Bergamo
6: Basque

Study argues that those populations who have near easter component are ashkenazi Jews, Maltese, Sicilians etc
There you go its all here


Table S9.3: Populations that improve resnorm for European outlier populations when added to a model of EN/WHG/EHG admixture as a 4th ancestral population. We show the top 20 populations that reduce resnorm the most when added to the mixture model. For Maltese, Sicilians, and Ashkenazi Jews these populations tend to be from the Middle East and North Africa

Maltese Sicilian Ashkenazi Jew

4th anc. pop. resnorm 4th anc. pop. resnorm 4th anc. pop.resnorm
Moroccan_Jew 0.000006 Turkish_Jew 0.000006 Cypriot 0.000006
Lebanese 0.000010 Cypriot 0.000006 Iraqi_Jew 0.000018
Syrian 0.000010 Moroccan_Jew 0.000009 Turkish_Jew 0.000018
Tunisian_Jew 0.000011 Druze 0.000012 Moroccan_Jew 0.000020
Saudi 0.000014 Iraqi_Jew 0.000012 Druze 0.000025
Turkish_Jew 0.000016 Syrian 0.000014 Lebanese 0.000027
Libyan_Jew 0.000017 Lebanese 0.000016 Syrian 0.000028
Jordanian 0.000017 Tunisian_Jew 0.000019 Tunisian_Jew 0.000037
Palestinian 0.000019 Saudi 0.000021 Saudi 0.000039
Druze 0.000022 Jordanian 0.000022 Iranian_Jew 0.000039
Yemenite_Jew 0.000022 Libyan_Jew0.000025 Jordanian 0.000039
BedouinB 0.000022 Palestinian 0.000026 Palestinian 0.000044
BedouinA 0.000023 BedouinB 0.000027 Libyan_Jew 0.000044
Tunisian 0.000024 Yemenite_Jew 0.000028 Yemenite_Jew 0.000045
Mozabite 0.000024 Tunisian 0.000028 BedouinB 0.000045
Algerian 0.000025 Mozabite 0.000028 BedouinA 0.000046
Egyptian 0.000025 BedouinA 0.000028 Tunisian 0.000046
Saharawi 0.000026 Egyptian 0.000028 Egyptian 0.000046
Yemen 0.000028 Algerian 0.000029 Mozabite 0.000047
Esan 0.000030 Saharawi 0.000029 Algerian 0.000047


Check the Figure S9.27 (pg 124) please, Albanians have:

0% Beduine (Which is of Near Eastern component)
77% EN (Early Neolithic)
2.2% Nagasan
3.3% WHG
17.5% YanmayaSo Albanians and Greeks actually don't even have a slightest % from the components of Near eastern farmers.

Fig. S9.24 shows that when WHG admixture is added to EN, residuals for most European populations are reduced, consistent with most Europeans not being descended from EN farmers of Europe. Four populations indicate no change in residuals: Sardinians are the population that is closest to early European farmers2,7-9,12 with an estimated ~ 90% descent from them. Albanians are second and Greeks third
(ref. 2 and Fig. S9.23b), while Maltese, Ashkenazi Jews, and Sicilians may have Near Eastern admixture not mediated via early European farmers2.

Therefore according to this study current Albanians are de facto a direct descent from Early Neolithic European farmers (10,000 ybp)

Are the GedMatch calculators in regards to early European farmers and WHG accurate ?

I scored roughly 40% for EEF and 30 for WHG. I'M Albanian btw.

 

[blevins13]

This is interesting, where did you get it from?

 

[blevins13]

This is the first time I hear this......the claim of Albanian is that they are Authoctons in Balkan area, nothing more nothing less

 

[blevins13]

I believe that is obvius

Illyros son of Kadmus invte Illyria
so albania has J2

aeolian E wich was cut isolated and became another nation is the kossovo E-V13

the possibilty that GeG means also achaic ->agaig ->geg a+i = e
(watch acha-menides, aga-memnon, achaic, turkish aga =leader aga-memnon = ruler memnon)

the genetical connection with peloponese Achaic is probably obvius

events unite J2 and E-V13 to albanians
also J2 and E-V13 to Greeks

the R1a and R1b is the rulers probably R1a Thracian and R1b Celtic

I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that Geg meansachaic. Geg name is not that old. On the other side it make more sense to believethat E-V13 is high in Peloponnesus due to Albanian migration there after 1,000AD.

 

[blevins13]

Isnt this thread on who are the Albanians and their DNA?. We know they have high percentages of I's and R1b's besides E-V13. We have no studies from Neolithic sites in the Balkans and the 1 E-V13 found in a Neolithic site in Spain proves that it has been around in Europe since the Neolithic, so Im doing my best to figure out what is trying to be proved in regards to the Albanians and their DNA. We know one thing for sure, Albanians are not close to current Turkish populations. I remember first time i joined the forums I used to see all over the place that Albanians are descendants of Turks. DNA busted that is a myth.

Do we have DNA samples on the huge amount of Bones found in regions that probably were more populated due to the climatic conditions in the neolithic period? The answer is NO. The probability is that Neolithic sites were extremely sparsely populated anyway and life was more populous to the south (because of climatic conditions we all know of).

These Serbians will never let go the history of Caucasus or maybeCarpates, or why not Berbers, it does not matter as long as it justifies theirtheory that the Albanians are late comers in the Balkans and they either shouldgo back to Caucasus or die.
Same is with Greeks, whoever lives in Greece it is eitherGreek or dead (60 year ago) or ashamed nowadays.
It is petty full to have neighbors like this. I neverunderstood from where all this hate comes from since Albanians never occupiedtheir territories.
The only claim that Albanian have is that there are indeed autochthonesin the Balkans.

 

[Dani]

Because of religion.
Anyway, I am both Greek and Albanian from Kosovo. So, admixture is the only constant since the beginning

 

[Dani]

Of course this hate (due to religion, alliances with Turks and territories) exist also from Albanians against Greeks. Juste check this on Instagram, Facebook or YouTube.

 

[novakovich]

I was always wondering about origin of word Albanian, since Albanian do not use that name for them. Only possible connection should be with Caucasian Albania. As I know Ottoman Empire relocated many Caucasian people after lost war with Russia on territory of today Greece, Albania and Kosovo in order to increase Muslim population in that region. Those people were belonging to different nations as Circassian, Chechens, Ingush, Abkhaz and many others. During the time all those refugees became Albanized. I believe that those people left name to Albania, based on their homeland. Some of final non Albanized Cherkez were relocated to Russian federation after was in Kosovo by their own request.It will be intersting to study genetic contribution of Caucasians to current Albanian population. I think they significantly increased distribution of J2 haplogroup in the region. Another much bigger contribution of J2 haplogroup of current Albanians comes from heavy assimilated Aromanian people.Also I believe that higher concentration of Rb haplogroup in Albanians are not related to Celts, but with recent migration of Cumans to Balkan which left Eurasian steppe trying to avoid annihilation from Mongols. And finally E1V13 haplogroup is probably connected with Pelasgians and not with Thracians or Illirians. So Albanians are mixture of different people, like any other nation from Balkan.

 

[blevins13]

I was always wondering about origin of word Albanian, since Albanian do not use that name for them. Only possible connection should be with Caucasian Albania. As I know Ottoman Empire relocated many Caucasian people after lost war with Russia on territory of today Greece, Albania and Kosovo in order to increase Muslim population in that region. Those people were belonging to different nations as Circassian, Chechens, Ingush, Abkhaz and many others. During the time all those refugees became Albanized. I believe that those people left name to Albania, based on their homeland. Some of final non Albanized Cherkez were relocated to Russian federation after was in Kosovo by their own request.It will be intersting to study genetic contribution of Caucasians to current Albanian population. I think they significantly increased distribution of J2 haplogroup in the region. Another much bigger contribution of J2 haplogroup of current Albanians comes from heavy assimilated Aromanian people.Also I believe that higher concentration of Rb haplogroup in Albanians are not related to Celts, but with recent migration of Cumans to Balkan which left Eurasian steppe trying to avoid annihilation from Mongols. And finally E1V13 haplogroup is probably connected with Pelasgians and not with Thracians or Illirians. So Albanians are mixture of different people, like any other nation from Balkan.

Keep it up Novakovich, it is only a matter of time that all this bullshit blowed up about Albanians will fall on your head...


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[Johane Derite]

I was always wondering about origin of word Albanian, since Albanian do not use that name for them. Only possible connection should be with Caucasian Albania.

I am beyond baffled at how confidently you can reach such extraordinary conclusions on subjects its clear you know nothing about. Why not be quiet instead on a subject you are ignorant of?

Albanians did not call themselves "Shqiptar" before 1685.
They started calling themselves Shqiptar during the Ottoman Empire as "Shqipton/Shqipon/Shqiptu" means "to pronounce/to speak"
and "Shqipë" simply means "the language(Albanian)." The suffix "-tar" in Albanian is equivalent entirely to the suffix "-er" in English (as in Icelander, worker, speaker).
Shqiptar literally means "Speaker" (albanian being the language implicit).

IMAGE: View attachment 8955


Because this is much more historically recent it points to a change in the identity of the Albanians based on who spoke the language during the ottoman empire.

Prior to Albanians calling themselves Shqiptar they called themselves many variations of something which is very similar to the English "Albanian"

The Albanians that fled from the turks to Italy after Skenderbeg fell called and still call themselves ARBERESH
The Albanians that sill live in enclaves all the way up north in croatia since a long time ago call themselves ARBANAS
Other names we call ourselves which are still popular names are Arben, Arber.
Arbëria is synonomous with Shqiperia.

Seriously though, why comment and posture as if you are informed on a subject you're clearly not

 

[Kingslav]

I am beyond baffled at how confidently you can reach such extraordinary conclusions on subjects its clear you know nothing about. Why not be quiet instead on a subject you are ignorant of?

Albanians did not call themselves "Shqiptar" before 1685.
They started calling themselves Shqiptar during the Ottoman Empire as "Shqipton/Shqipon/Shqiptu" means "to pronounce/to speak"
and "Shqipë" simply means "the language(Albanian)." The suffix "-tar" in Albanian is equivalent entirely to the suffix "-er" in English (as in Icelander, worker, speaker).
Shqiptar literally means "Speaker" (albanian being the language implicit).

IMAGE: View attachment 8955


Because this is much more historically recent it points to a change in the identity of the Albanians based on who spoke the language during the ottoman empire.

Prior to Albanians calling themselves Shqiptar they called themselves many variations of something which is very similar to the English "Albanian"

The Albanians that fled from the turks to Italy after Skenderbeg fell called and still call themselves ARBERESH
The Albanians that sill live in enclaves all the way up north in croatia since a long time ago call themselves ARBANAS
Other names we call ourselves which are still popular names are Arben, Arber.
Arbëria is synonomous with Shqiperia.

Seriously though, why comment and posture as if you are informed on a subject you're clearly not

Thanks for posting, I have question since you know a lot.
How much Slavic Admixture exists in modern Albanians, and what explains how it got there?
Not trying be racist just want explain for these questions

 

[LABERIA]

Thanks for posting, I have question since you know a lot.
How much Slavic Admixture exists in modern Albanians, and what explains how it got there?
Not trying be racist just want explain for these questions

Excuse me, not trying to be offensive but your question sounds stupid:

One more thing, unfortunately for you Illyrian Albanians, you mix with Fyrom Slavs during these invasions you just referenced.

The proof is Albanian ethnogenesis with excess of double digits (10% or more) I2A-DIN (Slavic) and R1A (Slavic) of each.

 

[Sile]

I was always wondering about origin of word Albanian, since Albanian do not use that name for them. Only possible connection should be with Caucasian Albania. As I know Ottoman Empire relocated many Caucasian people after lost war with Russia on territory of today Greece, Albania and Kosovo in order to increase Muslim population in that region. Those people were belonging to different nations as Circassian, Chechens, Ingush, Abkhaz and many others. During the time all those refugees became Albanized. I believe that those people left name to Albania, based on their homeland. Some of final non Albanized Cherkez were relocated to Russian federation after was in Kosovo by their own request.It will be intersting to study genetic contribution of Caucasians to current Albanian population. I think they significantly increased distribution of J2 haplogroup in the region. Another much bigger contribution of J2 haplogroup of current Albanians comes from heavy assimilated Aromanian people.Also I believe that higher concentration of Rb haplogroup in Albanians are not related to Celts, but with recent migration of Cumans to Balkan which left Eurasian steppe trying to avoid annihilation from Mongols. And finally E1V13 haplogroup is probably connected with Pelasgians and not with Thracians or Illirians. So Albanians are mixture of different people, like any other nation from Balkan.

If you know where the pelasgians are from, then we could check.

There are basically 3 theories , not counting the illyrian one, since Illyrians are first recorded in the eastern alps/Noricum 1000 years earlier than in modern montenegro. The Illyrians have very little marker E , something the Albanians have a lot of

1 - Bulgarian and Romanian scholars state the albanians came from the Carpi tribe of the southern carpathian mountains and they retained a dialect of Dacian before Dacian turned to latin language .......................IMO, doubtful

2 - The came from the southern caucasus.................but most markers came from southern caucasus or anywhere north of the Zargos mountain range ( except marker E )

3- The Albanians are descendants of the Dardanians of modern Kosovo, the Dardanians are neither thracian nor illyrian nor paeonian nor macedonian......but the Romans recognised them as a separate identity even into the AD times, actually having an area for them...........the possibility is that these dardanians moved over time from modern kosovo in a SW direction avoiding the coming of either Goths or later slavs

 

[LABERIA]

The difference in Arberesh is that never settle in Albania,
After Maniakis death they migrated to modern Albania from Italy, they revolt and they moved to Peloponese, (around 1040-1100 AD)
where they were forced to leave by Turkish admiral Barbaros,

1) Can you quote a single source to prove this your personal theory that Arberesh never settled in Albania? Bec ause from History we know that Arberesh are Albanians who migrated mostly from South, Central Albania in Italy. Also is recorded that some Albanians from Greece joined this Albanian diaspora. This are the Arbereshe.
20 Can you quote a source to prove your theory that Barbarossa( i think you are reffering to him when you say:by Turkish admiral Barbaros) expelled this people from Peloponnese?