Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 40 of 40 FirstFirst ... 30383940
Results 976 to 989 of 989

Thread: Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

  1. #976
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered
    Tutkun Arnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    31-03-18
    Posts
    186

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a(m223).

    Country: Albania



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    Now what you said makes a lot of sense, and maybe i didn't express myself correctly for all this time but about illyrians before descending from central europe being R1b and autosomally central european is sonething that i always saw as evident and backed up, but about E-V13 ALWAYS coming with R haplogroup i see it hard, for example it's not found in central asia or IRAN and further.
    Maciamo argues about E-v13 more or less, like this: Scandinavia, Finland, Russia and northern European lands were under ice until lately. So the haplogroup G which was one of the first early farmers is inexistent in those areas. But E-v13, which also is from Anatolian farmers, is not missing. If Indo-Europeans were R only, why there is E in Sweden, Finland, Russia and other places where there was not Roman conquest? In Europe, Iran, Kurdistan whenever Indo-European is spoken E-v13 is present. It means it has been a companion of R. Also, since E comes from Africa, it should have had some African traces, no matter how small. But it does not. I am talking about The African L. Places like Greece, Albania, where E is in majority, and E came from Africa, African female haplo L should have been present to some amounts. But is totally missing. It means carriers of E for a long time were marring European women, and also were traveling together with J2b2. I am not a biology major, I am trying to make sense of what I am reading, so I am not sure if I am answering your question. My opinion is Illyrians were not numerous. They were overwhelmed by people who were already in those lands. Illyrians could have been the third known wave of immigration in that area

  2. #977
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    04-03-18
    Posts
    89
    Points
    1,003
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,003, Level: 8
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 147
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-Z17107*, Z38456-

    Ethnic group
    Qun
    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    Ok but now, E haplo came from africa via anatollia in 20000 BC so it definely could not come with R1b and j2b, but when dis the j2b + R1b contact happen, before or after the formation of the proto-illyrian cultural/ethnical identity?
    So we know that illyrians crossed the austrian alps in 1000 BC and that j2b came into the balkans and had a founder effect long before 1000 BC so R1b got to have come alone to the austrian alps alone and then encountered j2b + E-V13 in the dinaric alps, so i think that proto illyrians R1b-L23 were already formed before coming into the balkans and autosomallh if they were still alive today would scored close to mldern day italians/hungarians/czechs so central euros, but then they mixed with J2b+E-V13 carriers and got from them the south euro autosomal DNA.
    E-V13 likely came from the Near East/Anatolia or even North Africa directly to Western Balkans 8000 years ago, but its boom was much later. E-V13 generally is ultra-Thracian/Daco-Moesian and only after that Greek and Illyrian. If you take out E-V13 basically Thracians/Daco-Moesians almost do not exist, because some of other Thracian R-Z2103's or R-Z93's simply do not have diversity or numbers..
    E-V13 clades found in Albanians are usually younger, and almost all of them (bar PH1246 and one CTS5856*) have distant point of origin in Eastern Balkans. That includes both Z5017 and Z5018. Having said that, lack of PH1246 in Bulgaria clearly shows E-V13 is not native to that area so such high diversity is a consequence of a migration. Some younger V13 found in Albanians seem to have ties with central Europe, and look to have been part of Urnfield movements.

    E-V13 among Albanians seems divided in 1) Illyrian clades, 2) illirianised Triballian clades 3) Early Medieval arrivals from Eastern/Central Balkans. This is not case with Albanian J-L283 which seems generally dominantly Illyrian in origin.

    Illyrians were a mix. L283's did not arrive in this EIA movement, they arrived to Balkans a millennium earlier. So antiquity Illyrians were a mix of these 2 major blocks, L283 who arrived earlier and R1b-U152 clades from Central Europe, some younger but widespread E-V13 clades (such as clades under L241 and some under CTS9320 and also Y145455), also likely J1-ZS3128 and you might add BY611 there if its origin is in the West, as presence of some distant BY611 clades in Italy fit nicely with this.

    You can't have these generalized views, about movements as if all of these older SNP's had same migration paths.

    Greece is certainly not the place where E-V13 originates from. Even E-V13 clades which seem Ancient Greek are younger and have distant point of origin northwards. Except one isolated PH1246 which might represent an earlier Cetina time migration.

  3. #978
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-06-17
    Posts
    744
    Points
    9,322
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,322, Level: 28
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 53.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    E-V13 likely came from the Near East/Anatolia or even North Africa directly to Western Balkans 8000 years ago, but its boom was much later. E-V13 generally is ultra-Thracian/Daco-Moesian and only after that Greek and Illyrian. If you take out E-V13 basically Thracians/Daco-Moesians almost do not exist, because some of other Thracian R-Z2103's or R-Z93's simply do not have diversity or numbers..
    E-V13 clades found in Albanians are usually younger, and almost all of them (bar PH1246 and one CTS5856*) have distant point of origin in Eastern Balkans. That includes both Z5017 and Z5018. Having said that, lack of PH1246 in Bulgaria clearly shows E-V13 is not native to that area so such high diversity is a consequence of a migration. Some younger V13 found in Albanians seem to have ties with central Europe, and look to have been part of Urnfield movements.

    E-V13 among Albanians seems divided in 1) Illyrian clades, 2) illirianised Triballian clades 3) Early Medieval arrivals from Eastern/Central Balkans. This is not case with Albanian J-L283 which seems generally dominantly Illyrian in origin.

    Illyrians were a mix. L283's did not arrive in this EIA movement, they arrived to Balkans a millennium earlier. So antiquity Illyrians were a mix of these 2 major blocks, L283 who arrived earlier and R1b-U152 clades from Central Europe, some younger but widespread E-V13 clades (such as clades under L241 and some under CTS9320 and also Y145455), also likely J1-ZS3128 and you might add BY611 there if its origin is in the West, as presence of some distant BY611 clades in Italy fit nicely with this.

    You can't have these generalized views, about movements as if all of these older SNP's had same migration paths.

    Greece is certainly not the place where E-V13 originates from. Even E-V13 clades which seem Ancient Greek are younger and have distant point of origin northwards. Except one isolated PH1246 which might represent an earlier Cetina time migration.
    This is an extremely interesting comment, I would love if you opened a thread dedicated to this, and basically shared more of what you said here.
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

  4. #979
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    Gannicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-04-18
    Posts
    174
    Points
    1,070
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,070, Level: 8
    Level completed: 60%, Points required for next Level: 80
    Overall activity: 87.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L51
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7

    Ethnic group
    Albanian - ?celt? - tosk - myzeqjar
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    E-V13 likely came from the Near East/Anatolia or even North Africa directly to Western Balkans 8000 years ago, but its boom was much later. E-V13 generally is ultra-Thracian/Daco-Moesian and only after that Greek and Illyrian. If you take out E-V13 basically Thracians/Daco-Moesians almost do not exist, because some of other Thracian R-Z2103's or R-Z93's simply do not have diversity or numbers..
    E-V13 clades found in Albanians are usually younger, and almost all of them (bar PH1246 and one CTS5856*) have distant point of origin in Eastern Balkans. That includes both Z5017 and Z5018. Having said that, lack of PH1246 in Bulgaria clearly shows E-V13 is not native to that area so such high diversity is a consequence of a migration. Some younger V13 found in Albanians seem to have ties with central Europe, and look to have been part of Urnfield movements.

    E-V13 among Albanians seems divided in 1) Illyrian clades, 2) illirianised Triballian clades 3) Early Medieval arrivals from Eastern/Central Balkans. This is not case with Albanian J-L283 which seems generally dominantly Illyrian in origin.

    Illyrians were a mix. L283's did not arrive in this EIA movement, they arrived to Balkans a millennium earlier. So antiquity Illyrians were a mix of these 2 major blocks, L283 who arrived earlier and R1b-U152 clades from Central Europe, some younger but widespread E-V13 clades (such as clades under L241 and some under CTS9320 and also Y145455), also likely J1-ZS3128 and you might add BY611 there if its origin is in the West, as presence of some distant BY611 clades in Italy fit nicely with this.

    You can't have these generalized views, about movements as if all of these older SNP's had same migration paths.

    Greece is certainly not the place where E-V13 originates from. Even E-V13 clades which seem Ancient Greek are younger and have distant point of origin northwards. Except one isolated PH1246 which might represent an earlier Cetina time migration.

    Thank you very much, now i understan a lot of things, thank you for having dedicated your profesaionality and time to me.
    My question now is, what did these people score autosomally and did the people that today carries those haplos in the balkan get their south euro autosomal dna from mixing with the locals, probably G2a carriers.
    And what about L23?
    Again thank you for your time.

  5. #980
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    Gannicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-04-18
    Posts
    174
    Points
    1,070
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,070, Level: 8
    Level completed: 60%, Points required for next Level: 80
    Overall activity: 87.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L51
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7

    Ethnic group
    Albanian - ?celt? - tosk - myzeqjar
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Maciamo argues about E-v13 more or less, like this: Scandinavia, Finland, Russia and northern European lands were under ice until lately. So the haplogroup G which was one of the first early farmers is inexistent in those areas. But E-v13, which also is from Anatolian farmers, is not missing. If Indo-Europeans were R only, why there is E in Sweden, Finland, Russia and other places where there was not Roman conquest? In Europe, Iran, Kurdistan whenever Indo-European is spoken E-v13 is present. It means it has been a companion of R. Also, since E comes from Africa, it should have had some African traces, no matter how small. But it does not. I am talking about The African L. Places like Greece, Albania, where E is in majority, and E came from Africa, African female haplo L should have been present to some amounts. But is totally missing. It means carriers of E for a long time were marring European women, and also were traveling together with J2b2. I am not a biology major, I am trying to make sense of what I am reading, so I am not sure if I am answering your question. My opinion is Illyrians were not numerous. They were overwhelmed by people who were already in those lands. Illyrians could have been the third known wave of immigration in that area
    Thank you for the reply you clarified a lot of stuff to me, thanks.

  6. #981
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    Gannicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-04-18
    Posts
    174
    Points
    1,070
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,070, Level: 8
    Level completed: 60%, Points required for next Level: 80
    Overall activity: 87.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L51
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7

    Ethnic group
    Albanian - ?celt? - tosk - myzeqjar
    Country: Italy



    @Aspurg


    I recognize youa and Trojet as the 2 biggest experts of J2b and E-V13 on this forum, can you please tell me if the albanian, vlach and romanian J2b + E-V13 have a direct relation with each other? I am almost sure of the answer, having read stuff on some DNA familyfinder sites but would like to hear it from such an expert in this matter that you are.
    Thanks

  7. #982
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    04-03-18
    Posts
    89
    Points
    1,003
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,003, Level: 8
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 147
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-Z17107*, Z38456-

    Ethnic group
    Qun
    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    @Aspurg


    I recognize youa and Trojet as the 2 biggest experts of J2b and E-V13 on this forum, can you please tell me if the albanian, vlach and romanian J2b + E-V13 have a direct relation with each other? I am almost sure of the answer, having read stuff on some DNA familyfinder sites but would like to hear it from such an expert in this matter that you are.
    Thanks
    Of J2b, in Dukasi, Albania 48 % of Aromanians had a J-PH2967 looking hyplotype, but it won't be close to any Albanian PH2967. These Aromanians must be some local Illyrian element that was latinised long time ago. Also Thaci-Korbi Z631 match with a Greek and they match Basarabi Romanians.
    Of V13 Kelmendi branch Z16988>BY4590 was found in Vlachs (1 on Albanian project and 2 BY4590 looking haplotypes from Andon Poci were present in Bosch et al.). E-FGC11450>Y146086 common in Tosks looks set to be found in NW Bulgaria and in Băile Herculane, Romania.

    Bjelice cluster Z19851 which is numerous in Montenegro matches with Aromanians and Bulgarians. It is lacking though in Albanians, strangely a bunch of Arberesh belong to it.
    Common among Aromanians is E-Y16729* but it seems absent in Albanians. This clade also has a more Eastern orientation as another distant Y16729* is found in Eastern Bulgaria. Also a number of Aromanians from Stip are a match with E-S7461 from Bulgaria, this clade is rare in Albanians and it is also very diverse in the East.

    So even in V13, Aromanians and Albanians differ more than they resemble each other.

  8. #983
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    Gannicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-04-18
    Posts
    174
    Points
    1,070
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,070, Level: 8
    Level completed: 60%, Points required for next Level: 80
    Overall activity: 87.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L51
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7

    Ethnic group
    Albanian - ?celt? - tosk - myzeqjar
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Of J2b, in Dukasi, Albania 48 % of Aromanians had a J-PH2967 looking hyplotype, but it won't be close to any Albanian PH2967. These Aromanians must be some local Illyrian element that was latinised long time ago. Also Thaci-Korbi Z631 match with a Greek and they match Basarabi Romanians.
    Of V13 Kelmendi branch Z16988>BY4590 was found in Vlachs (1 on Albanian project and 2 BY4590 looking haplotypes from Andon Poci were present in Bosch et al.). E-FGC11450>Y146086 common in Tosks looks set to be found in NW Bulgaria and in Băile Herculane, Romania.

    Bjelice cluster Z19851 which is numerous in Montenegro matches with Aromanians and Bulgarians. It is lacking though in Albanians, strangely a bunch of Arberesh belong to it.
    Common among Aromanians is E-Y16729* but it seems absent in Albanians. This clade also has a more Eastern orientation as another distant Y16729* is found in Eastern Bulgaria. Also a number of Aromanians from Stip are a match with E-S7461 from Bulgaria, this clade is rare in Albanians and it is also very diverse in the East.

    So even in V13, Aromanians and Albanians differ more than they resemble each other.
    ah, very inresting, thank you very much, so in conclusion where do we find the biggest ties that link all 3 albanians, romanians and aromanians, if there are any.
    And sorry to bother you with this butx what arebthe updates about E-V13, meaning in the path that it took from its homeland to balkans, i am still at the time where it was thought to come from africa in 20000 B.C.
    Is there any update on it cuz i heard from you and tuktun that it has been prooven to come from central europe, intresting fact.

    About the autosomal DNA now:
    I would say that autosomally speaking probably today's albanians and greeks score south euro because of the heavy mix with G2a people, the haplogroup died but the autosomal contribution was inherted by the new comers.
    I bet originally proto-Illyrians score would score close to czech or austrians today.
    Thank you for your time.

  9. #984
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    17-09-17
    Posts
    213
    Points
    1,987
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,987, Level: 12
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 163
    Overall activity: 32.0%


    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    E-V13 likely came from the Near East/Anatolia or even North Africa directly to Western Balkans 8000 years ago, but its boom was much later. E-V13 generally is ultra-Thracian/Daco-Moesian and only after that Greek and Illyrian. If you take out E-V13 basically Thracians/Daco-Moesians almost do not exist, because some of other Thracian R-Z2103's or R-Z93's simply do not have diversity or numbers..
    E-V13 clades found in Albanians are usually younger, and almost all of them (bar PH1246 and one CTS5856*) have distant point of origin in Eastern Balkans. That includes both Z5017 and Z5018. Having said that, lack of PH1246 in Bulgaria clearly shows E-V13 is not native to that area so such high diversity is a consequence of a migration. Some younger V13 found in Albanians seem to have ties with central Europe, and look to have been part of Urnfield movements.
    Your logic is generally correct, but let's also keep in mind that most of these clades have TMRCA's close to 4000 ybp and their expansion predates Illyrians and Thracians. To distinguish between Illyrians and Thraco-Dacians we should look at TMRCAs of 2500-3000, maximum 3500 ybp, and most often, Albanian and Bulgarian results don't converge for around 2500-3500 years.
    Last edited by Ownstyler; 12-01-19 at 18:16.

  10. #985
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,005
    Points
    29,010
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,010, Level: 52
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 740
    Overall activity: 80.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a ..Osii pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Tutkun Arnaut View Post
    Maciamo argues about E-v13 more or less, like this: Scandinavia, Finland, Russia and northern European lands were under ice until lately. So the haplogroup G which was one of the first early farmers is inexistent in those areas. But E-v13, which also is from Anatolian farmers, is not missing. If Indo-Europeans were R only, why there is E in Sweden, Finland, Russia and other places where there was not Roman conquest? In Europe, Iran, Kurdistan whenever Indo-European is spoken E-v13 is present. It means it has been a companion of R. Also, since E comes from Africa, it should have had some African traces, no matter how small. But it does not. I am talking about The African L. Places like Greece, Albania, where E is in majority, and E came from Africa, African female haplo L should have been present to some amounts. But is totally missing. It means carriers of E for a long time were marring European women, and also were traveling together with J2b2. I am not a biology major, I am trying to make sense of what I am reading, so I am not sure if I am answering your question. My opinion is Illyrians were not numerous. They were overwhelmed by people who were already in those lands. Illyrians could have been the third known wave of immigration in that area
    you need to look at the big picture of haplogroups in the balkans like this....from late bronze-age 1100 BC to 800 AD and this period covers also the slav migration, because the slavs did not replace the thracians and illyrians, but these merged into the migrating slavs.
    my guess is the slav migration is only 50% of the populace by 800AD
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  11. #986
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,005
    Points
    29,010
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,010, Level: 52
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 740
    Overall activity: 80.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a ..Osii pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    E-V13 likely came from the Near East/Anatolia or even North Africa directly to Western Balkans 8000 years ago, but its boom was much later. E-V13 generally is ultra-Thracian/Daco-Moesian and only after that Greek and Illyrian. If you take out E-V13 basically Thracians/Daco-Moesians almost do not exist, because some of other Thracian R-Z2103's or R-Z93's simply do not have diversity or numbers..
    E-V13 clades found in Albanians are usually younger, and almost all of them (bar PH1246 and one CTS5856*) have distant point of origin in Eastern Balkans. That includes both Z5017 and Z5018. Having said that, lack of PH1246 in Bulgaria clearly shows E-V13 is not native to that area so such high diversity is a consequence of a migration. Some younger V13 found in Albanians seem to have ties with central Europe, and look to have been part of Urnfield movements.
    E-V13 among Albanians seems divided in 1) Illyrian clades, 2) illirianised Triballian clades 3) Early Medieval arrivals from Eastern/Central Balkans. This is not case with Albanian J-L283 which seems generally dominantly Illyrian in origin.
    Illyrians were a mix. L283's did not arrive in this EIA movement, they arrived to Balkans a millennium earlier. So antiquity Illyrians were a mix of these 2 major blocks, L283 who arrived earlier and R1b-U152 clades from Central Europe, some younger but widespread E-V13 clades (such as clades under L241 and some under CTS9320 and also Y145455), also likely J1-ZS3128 and you might add BY611 there if its origin is in the West, as presence of some distant BY611 clades in Italy fit nicely with this.
    You can't have these generalized views, about movements as if all of these older SNP's had same migration paths.
    Greece is certainly not the place where E-V13 originates from. Even E-V13 clades which seem Ancient Greek are younger and have distant point of origin northwards. Except one isolated PH1246 which might represent an earlier Cetina time migration.
    IIRC, this paper
    .
    Y-chromosomal analysis of Greek Cypriots reveals a primarily common pre-Ottoman paternal ancestry with Turkish Cypriots
    Alexandros Heraclides , Evy Bashiardes , Eva Fernández-Domínguez, Stefania Bertoncini, Marios Chimonas, Vasilis Christofi,
    Jonathan King, Bruce Budowle, Panayiotis Manoli, Marios A. Cariolou
    PLOS
    Published: June 16, 2017
    .
    states that E-V13 origin is cyprus.............I will need to revist this

    .
    btw, Triballian tribes are thracians and not illyrian

  12. #987
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,005
    Points
    29,010
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,010, Level: 52
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 740
    Overall activity: 80.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a ..Osii pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Ownstyler View Post
    Your logic is generally correct, but let's also keep in mind that most of these clades have TMRCA's close to 4000 ybp and their expansion predates Illyrians and Thracians. To distinguish between Illyrians and Thraco-Dacians we should look at TMRCAs of 2500-3000, maximum 3500 ybp, and most often, Albanian and Bulgarian results don't converge for around 2500-3500 years.
    with the Roman census at the time of year zero showing that only 14.6 % of illyrrians lived from montenegro and south of this land. my guess would be that most Greek, epirote or macedonian haplogroup markers need to be looked at.
    .
    In the decuria ( census ) , it shows that 44.8% of Illyria ( illyricum ) ....where Illyrian Dalmatians and the
    illyrian pannonians made up of 29.1 %

  13. #988
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredRecommendation Second Class5000 Experience Points
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    644
    Points
    7,856
    Level
    26
    Points: 7,856, Level: 26
    Level completed: 51%, Points required for next Level: 294
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This is an extremely interesting comment, I would love if you opened a thread dedicated to this, and basically shared more of what you said here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    E-V13 likely came from the Near East/Anatolia or even North Africa directly to Western Balkans 8000 years ago, but its boom was much later. E-V13 generally is ultra-Thracian/Daco-Moesian and only after that Greek and Illyrian. If you take out E-V13 basically Thracians/Daco-Moesians almost do not exist, because some of other Thracian R-Z2103's or R-Z93's simply do not have diversity or numbers..
    E-V13 clades found in Albanians are usually younger, and almost all of them (bar PH1246 and one CTS5856*) have distant point of origin in Eastern Balkans. That includes both Z5017 and Z5018. Having said that, lack of PH1246 in Bulgaria clearly shows E-V13 is not native to that area so such high diversity is a consequence of a migration. Some younger V13 found in Albanians seem to have ties with central Europe, and look to have been part of Urnfield movements.

    E-V13 among Albanians seems divided in 1) Illyrian clades, 2) illirianised Triballian clades 3) Early Medieval arrivals from Eastern/Central Balkans. This is not case with Albanian J-L283 which seems generally dominantly Illyrian in origin.

    Illyrians were a mix. L283's did not arrive in this EIA movement, they arrived to Balkans a millennium earlier. So antiquity Illyrians were a mix of these 2 major blocks, L283 who arrived earlier and R1b-U152 clades from Central Europe, some younger but widespread E-V13 clades (such as clades under L241 and some under CTS9320 and also Y145455), also likely J1-ZS3128 and you might add BY611 there if its origin is in the West, as presence of some distant BY611 clades in Italy fit nicely with this.

    You can't have these generalized views, about movements as if all of these older SNP's had same migration paths.

    Greece is certainly not the place where E-V13 originates from. Even E-V13 clades which seem Ancient Greek are younger and have distant point of origin northwards. Except one isolated PH1246 which might represent an earlier Cetina time migration.
    I second Derite, that would be an interesting thread all its own.

  14. #989
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    Gannicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-04-18
    Posts
    174
    Points
    1,070
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,070, Level: 8
    Level completed: 60%, Points required for next Level: 80
    Overall activity: 87.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L51
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7

    Ethnic group
    Albanian - ?celt? - tosk - myzeqjar
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    I second Derite, that would be an interesting thread all its own.
    Agreed, but let's do a petition on an example randomly extracted of a group of ten exemplars of individuals, if at least 6 people vote yes then Aspurg will have to morally create the thread in the respect of the 50+1% otherwise he is free to do as he wishes, but i suggest him opening anyways :)
    Last edited by Gannicus; 13-01-19 at 15:24.

Page 40 of 40 FirstFirst ... 30383940

Similar Threads

  1. Haplogroups in Albanians
    By Dale Cooper in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-02-18, 10:51
  2. Albanians (OFFTOPIC Macedonians)
    By Besir Bajrami in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 201
    Last Post: 05-09-14, 00:07
  3. Do they look albanians/montenegrins/bosnians etc.. ?
    By julia90 in forum Guess the Ethnicity
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 23-09-13, 14:43
  4. Replies: 281
    Last Post: 09-06-13, 12:51

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •