Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

I agree with you for once. After all you and I are very likely related so you shouldn't join these t r o l l s against me. My Bosniak maternal paternal side very likely (not yet tested but strong documentary evidence exists) are from the vlach Ugarak tribe, and that is your grandmothers lineage right? But if so my mothers ancestry derives from the Ugarcic family befoe they entered Vlach status.

My K36 Europe and Asia
View attachment 11029

View attachment 11030

I'm closer here to Scandinavians than Albanians. Also I'm not so close to Montenegrins at all.. That is because I have no proper Montnegrin admixture. My side is from Lim river, first time this territory entered Montenegro was in 1912. And this area around Bihor had more of the old population. I'm closer to West Ukrainians than Montegrins, and not only here but in other calculators often as well.

Look at Asia map, those dots at the top. 19 must be Nenets. That's the highest I've seen in any Bosniak/Serb. Russians have 20-21-22 Four dots below, upper ones seem to be some Uralic peoples. Upper left are I think Komi, upper right are Mansy or Khanty. Bottom, one might be Erzya because I've seen Erzya scoring very high there, and the other I'm not sure is it East Russian, Tatar or other Ugric whatever because I've seen various groups scoring high there. But my scores there are highest or among the highest that can be found in Bosniaks/Serbs. So I'm closer to Erzya than Albanians here.

At DNA.land I score 13 % Finnish

K47 with some interesting components such as West Finnic, Volgan and in MDLP K33 Finno-Ugric

Serb barbarylion you mentioned
West Finnic 5.39%
Volgan 0.04%
Finno Ugric 0.12%

Serb from Krajina, same clade as you. (Sunce) He's also more northern.
Volgan 0.00%
West Finnic 7.87%
Finno Ugric 3.85%

Russian woman
Volgan 2.37%
West Finnic 12.09%

Serb E-Z19851
Volgan 0.00%
West Finnic 3.66%

Bosniak, central Bosnia
Finno Ugric 1.14%

More Northern Serb
Volgan 2.56%
West Finnic 4.67%

Serb R-U152
West Finnic 7.94%
Volgan 0.00%
Finno Ugric 1.14%

Serb Kosovo
Volgan 1.91%
West Finnic 1.56%


Serb Bosnia
West Finnic 7.14%
Volgan 0.23%
Finno Ugric 1.87%

My score:
West Finnic 7.90%
Volgan 1.54%
Finno Ugric 3.93 (I think more than majority of Hungarians)


I most definitely have some elevated real Ugric admixture, that is not accidental because it repeats itself in different calculators.

As I explained many times my E-V13 clade has no connection to Shqiptars, and if I share a single SNP with Russians/Easterners and that is a very real possibility because two of these clades share with mine an unusual STR value since at least 1500-2000 years ago and unusual STR mutation means likely shared mutation, then my Y-DNA has nothing to do with the huge majority of other V13's from Early Iron Age until Medieval times. It would be like an R-Z93 clade in its migrations and ancient peoples connections.
Furthermore the evidence of some tribal traces I mentioned ultimately does point to descend of one group where some E-V13 might be expected to occur.

Even if it doesn't it still is Carpathian (so likely Dacian).

My grandmother (father's mother) is from Dobrijević family. Dobrijevići are of same origin as Miljevići, Rokvići and Trninići. All of them are R1b-U152 and originated from Herzegovinian Ugarci who were in vlach social status.

Dema tend to claim many nonsenses such as Vlach origin of Krajina Serbs (he think on Latin speaking paleo-Balkanites, not on social status vlachs) and Albanian origin of Serbs from southern Serbia. I agree with Dema only in his claim of Albanian origin of Sandžakian Muslims, majority of them are islamized Malesors.
Krajina Serbs are least paleo-Balkanic influenced Serbs. They ploting more northern not only than Montenegrins and southern Serbs, but also than Serbs from central Serbia and Vojvodina.
Here is full Barbarylion's K47 https://www.theapricity.com/forum/s...ija)-results&p=5869751&viewfull=1#post5869751

It's not surprise to me origin of your mother's family from Ugarci. Many Bosnian Muslims originated from Herzegovinian vlachs (social status). Ottomans settled them to Bosnia and gave them land and privilegies for conversion on Islam.
I bealive large part of I2a-Din among Bosnian Muslims is related with islamized Herzegovinian vlach. I2a-Din has a peak in Hergegovina where is stronger than in Bosnia. Dema's claim of 53% I2a-Din among Bosnian Muslims is outdated and came from small sample. Bosnian Muslims are more like 43% I2a-Din [video]https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253441-Bosnian-Muslim-Y-DNA-results-(273-samples)[/video]
Among Muslims from Bosanska Krajina I2a-Din is lower than average, it's 37-38%. Except lower I2a-Din Bosanska Krajina Muslims have higher J2b1-M205 and N-P189.2 than other BiH Muslims. They also have some exotic hapogroups related with Anatolia in smaller % which doesn't exist among other BiH Muslims.

Your Finno-Ugric score might be related with islamized Hungarians. In late 17th century a lot of Muslim refugees from Hungary, Vojvodina and Slavonia arrived to Bosnia. Some of them were probably islamized Hungarians, and some of them setlled to Central Bosnia. Of course, it's well known that vast majority of them settled to northern and northeastern Bosnia.
What is your K13 Eurogenes and K12b Dodecad?

Here is result of full Montenegrin (very typical Montenegrin result), higher paleo-Balkanic dna than among Serbs (outside of Montenegro) is clear [video]https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?289080-Myheritage-and-GEDmatch-results[/video]
 
Autosomal DNA doesn't mean anything, guys. Can change from generation to generation drastically. My cousin here under R-Y82919 (ID YF18835) is almost pure Saudi Arabian autosomally speaking: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y82919/


I have to say, Aspurg, you have really motivated me to find you a Malesor within your subclade :LOL:
 
Get a life ffs, stop spamming, we all know your a šiptar

Btw yesterday i was in Novi Pazar, today im in Prishtine.

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Dema tend to claim many nonsenses such as Vlach origin of Krajina Serbs (he think on Latin speaking paleo-Balkanites, not on social status vlachs) and Albanian origin of Serbs from southern Serbia. I agree with Dema only in his claim of Albanian origin of Sandžakian Muslims, majority of them are islamized Malesors

You understood it wrongly, i said these that are known as Vlachs in Bosnia and Croatia, or more precisely Serbs. Are definitely more noticeable in higher Albano Vlah haplogroups like higher Ev13, J2 and R1b then their neighbors like Croats, Slovens or Bosnian Catholics/Muslims.

They dont look Vlach in origin but rather serbicized Albanians probably from South Serbia and Montenegro. At least when talking about these specific haplogroups.

I hope you do understand That for example Bosnian Serbs have way higher Ev13 percentage then Muslims or Catholics.

Also their I2a1 is way lower to compare to Muslims or Catholics.

They are 14 century emigrants from Ottoman time and they even declared as Vlachs before

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My grandmother (father's mother) is from Dobrijević family. Dobrijevići are of same origin as Miljevići, Rokvići and Trninići. All of them are R1b-U152 and originated from Herzegovinian Ugarci who were in vlach social status.


Dema tend to claim many nonsenses such as Vlach origin of Krajina Serbs (he think on Latin speaking paleo-Balkanites, not on social status vlachs) and Albanian origin of Serbs from southern Serbia. I agree with Dema only in his claim of Albanian origin of Sandžakian Muslims, majority of them are islamized Malesors.
Krajina Serbs are least paleo-Balkanic influenced Serbs. They ploting more northern not only than Montenegrins and southern Serbs, but also than Serbs from central Serbia and Vojvodina.
Here is full Barbarylion's K47 https://www.theapricity.com/forum/s...ija)-results&p=5869751&viewfull=1#post5869751


It's not surprise to me origin of your mother's family from Ugarci. Many Bosnian Muslims originated from Herzegovinian vlachs (social status). Ottomans settled them to Bosnia and gave them land and privilegies for conversion on Islam.
I bealive large part of I2a-Din among Bosnian Muslims is related with islamized Herzegovinian vlach. I2a-Din has a peak in Hergegovina where is stronger than in Bosnia. Dema's claim of 53% I2a-Din among Bosnian Muslims is outdated and came from small sample. Bosnian Muslims are more like 43% I2a-Din [video]https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253441-Bosnian-Muslim-Y-DNA-results-(273-samples)[/video]
Among Muslims from Bosanska Krajina I2a-Din is lower than average, it's 37-38%. Except lower I2a-Din Bosanska Krajina Muslims have higher J2b1-M205 and N-P189.2 than other BiH Muslims. They also have some exotic hapogroups related with Anatolia in smaller % which doesn't exist among other BiH Muslims.


Your Finno-Ugric score might be related with islamized Hungarians. In late 17th century a lot of Muslim refugees from Hungary, Vojvodina and Slavonia arrived to Bosnia. Some of them were probably islamized Hungarians, and some of them setlled to Central Bosnia. Of course, it's well known that vast majority of them settled to northern and northeastern Bosnia.
What is your K13 Eurogenes and K12b Dodecad?


Here is result of full Montenegrin (very typical Montenegrin result), higher paleo-Balkanic dna than among Serbs (outside of Montenegro) is clear [video]https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?289080-Myheritage-and-GEDmatch-results[/video]


Yes I know those Krajina families descend of Ugarci, nearby there are some Bosniak Ugarci they likely descend of them. But my mothers family is a different thing. They seem to descend of the family of Bogcin son of knez Stipko Ugarcic from Vrhbosna area in 15th century. They likely arrived there in late 14th century, and in 1462 this family was the first case of islamization in Bosnia, because Ottomans took the Vrhbosna before other areas of Bosnia.


My mothers family were very powerful in Sarajevo in early 19th century and 18th century and before that time they had a link with fort of Hodidjed (Hodidid accurately because ikavian was used at that time), and this link seems to go to Medieval time.


Sandzak Bosniaks are dominately of Malesor origin, especially the Eastern part. In the Western parts that is not the case but alot more of them live in the East.


Yes I know there were some Hungarians coming in, some families still have Hungarian surnames. Janjoš in Sarajevo for ex. Also some Bosniaks have some unusual R1b U106 clades, maybe some of those are connected with Hungarians but deeper tests are required. I haven't checked whether Hungarians have them.


Btw Ugarak clan was sometimes connected with Hungarians because of their name (Ugri- Ugar), but that does not seem to be the case. But that clade is very interesting. Very distant relatives are found in Crete, Asia Minor Greeks, Bulgaria and SW Romania. Might be part of Illyrian-Dorian connection.


Yes Montenegrin result is more typical. Autosomally I think I've seen one Albanian cousin, even Bosnian Serbs get a few, but when I looked at one Bjelopavlic he had like 7-8 Albanian relatives in top 50.. That illustrates ofc that Bjelopavlici lived in the neigbourhod of Albanians.


Dodecad K12b
#
Population
Percent
1 North_European 43.94
2 Atlantic_Med 25.82
3 Caucasus 21.02
4 Southwest_Asian 3.92
5 Gedrosia 2.44
6 South_Asian 2.06
7 Southeast_Asian 0.58
8 Northwest_African 0.21


My Eurogenes K13
#
Population
Percent
1​
Baltic 34.08
2​
North_Atlantic 25.49
3​
West_Med 15.5
4​
East_Med 13.79
5​
West_Asian 7.39
6​
South_Asian 1.48
7​
Northeast_African 0.88
8​
Amerindian 0.69
9​
East_Asian 0.43
10​
Oceanian 0.27

#
Population (source)
Distance
1​
Moldavian 4.34
2​
Croatian 4.78
3​
Serbian 7.19
4​
Hungarian 7.68
5​
Romanian 10.28
6​
Ukrainian_Lviv 10.91
7​
South_Polish 11.42
8​
Ukrainian 11.68
9​
Bulgarian 12.01
10​
Austrian 12.02
11​
East_German 12.32
12​
Polish 14.83
13​
Southwest_Russian 15.03
14​
Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.43
15​
Russian_Smolensk 16.84
16​
Estonian_Polish 17.18
17​
Belorussian 17.8
18​
West_German 19.05
19​
Kargopol_Russian 19.34
20​
Southwest_Finnish 20.45

Very different from that Montenegrin.. Again Moldovans up there for me..


Autosomal DNA doesn't mean anything, guys. Can change from generation to generation drastically. My cousin here under R-Y82919 (ID YF18835) is almost pure Saudi Arabian autosomally speaking: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y82919/


Sure it does change but those who have more compact origin have their own particular autosomal affinity, there are some regional autosomal variations. He arrived there likely in late Medieval times, however if he had arrived as part of some group that kept themselves a bit isolated, he would have shown likely still a little of balkan ancestry.


I have to say, Aspurg, you have really motivated me to find you a Malesor within your subclade :LOL:


Ah be my guest:LOL:, but as already quite a bit of Albanians have been tested not so likely, likely would not matter much either especially if he'd be from Komani :LOL:. On the other hand when alot more Romanians get tested then you will see a difference 100 % with my own clade too.
 
Actually as far as Malesia e Madhe is concerned, we have barely scratched the surface :LOL:

We only have like one or two samples from the major tribes. There are many minor tribes and composite tribes like Gruda, Koja, Trieshi, Kastrati etc up there that we need to test more thoroughly. Hopefully this year we can send someone up there.
 
That is not proven. No Thracian E-V13 has been found until now, only one E-Z1919. We don't know if it was E-V13+ or not. On the other hand, E-L618, which is even closer to E-V13, has been found in Croatia. The earliest E-V13 found so far is an autosomally Balkan IA Scythian. Later E-V13s were found in Spain and Hungary, also autosomally Balkan.

In any case, the E-V13 TMRCA lived ~4800 years ago, ages before the Thracians, so if you mean that all E-V13 was Thracian, or that it started with the Thracians, that cannot be the case. Thracians probably had certain subclades, just like other IA Balkan peoples.

Thank you for clarifying it to me. I thought they did found Ev13 in Tracian tombs. So far, what is the Tracian Y-dna and proto Tracian either, which we have already?

About Ev13 I presumed that it may have been introduced into Albanians via Illyrians as long as Albanians lack the Tracian R-Z93, which is the core of IE element in Tracians
 
Thank you for clarifying it to me. I thought they did found Ev13 in Tracian tombs. So far, what is the Tracian Y-dna and proto Tracian either, which we have already?

About Ev13 I presumed that it may have been introduced into Albanians via Illyrians as long as Albanians lack the Tracian R-Z93, which is the core of IE element in Tracians

I am not entirely sure R1a-Z93 is the core element there. It could be, but it is still too early to tell. But it is entirely possible that Thracians included several distinct IE lines, both R1b and R1a. Everyone seems to forget that there are more than around 1000 years between IE migrations and the Thracians as a people that the Ancient Greek authors mention. During that time, any possible combination of Y-DNA lines could have melted and assimilated each-other into making one people.

It is good to keep in mind what Balkan aDNA we have so far. This is it, for 5000-0 BCE, if I have not forgotten any:


5000-1000 BCEBulgariaCroatiaSerbiaGreece
I2a2a1b x4J2a1G2a2a1 x2J2a1 x3
I2a2G2a2a1G2a2a1
G2a2b2 x2R1b-Z2103
R1b-L753J2b-L283
H2
R1a-Z93
1000 - 0 BCE
E-Z1919 (Thracian)


As, I mentioned above, there is an E-L716 from Dalmatia, but it is older than 5000 years.
 
What I mean is people like Bachus. He registered on a Serbian forum krstarica with a nickname "krishna" and he claimed there that he is some R-Z93, he never tested but is likely I2a clade. And here he is posting everywhere any single Serb who has high Slavic autosomal score and he acts as if he had won a lottery.







I agree, it is useless and it stops. My E-V13 is in many ways unusual. It does have plenty of distantly related Albanians generally Z17107 is very diverse North of Danube. I haven't tried to make a similar thesis for some others because it is not possible. But I've worked alone for the most part, and when some more people get involved soon that is going to make a difference.


I said clearly that E-v13 is Illyrian too. It must be because it has a strong presence and diversity too in some Illyrian areas but in the global picture.
Some CTS1273 clades
Z5017 has strong diversity of basal clades in Bulgaria, stronger than in Albanians (just remember the paternal clade to CTS9320 and some parallel clades: basal BY4684 (Z19851, without any close link to another such cluster found in some Romanians, Greeks, and one Albanian), as well as Z9851 now at YFull who has dys390=24 (modal for that cluster is 25)
Z5018 has strong diversity of basal clades in Bulgaria, stronger than in Albanians. No Z5018 basal clade Albanians have is absent in Bulgarians. Two of Bulgarian basal Z5018 clades are absent in Albanians.
S7461 has strong diversity of basal clades in Bulgaria, much stronger than in Albanians
Y16729 has strong diversity of basal clades in Bulgaria (one Macedonian is of Vlach cluster from there), does not exist in Albanians

You had more deep tested Albanians but Bulgarians are restarting again.


But PH1246 has no presence whatsoever in Bulgarians, has relatively strong presence in Serbs/Croats, and minor in Greeks and Albanians. Indicating it's more Western orientation. This indicates that E-V13 is not native in Bulgaria but that E-CTS1273 arrived in numbers there about 4000 ybp.


There are few deep tested Romanians which is a big problem, so it needs to be seen what are their connections here.
There are indications from sutdies that PH1246 might be very diverse in Moldavia also.


As I said there were some contact cultures in the area and they are very good candidates for various Albanian V13's. Did I not say that I think majority of Dardanians might have been E-V13? Dardanians were Illyrian but they were also a unique population, their kingdom was always separate from the Illyrian kingdom





By that logic very little is proven. Slavic I2a is also not proven, and how can it possibly even be "proven" as Slavs practiced cremation and so have generally most Thracian/Moesian/Dacian groups. And yet I2a Din is Slavic..

What's your point ? Are you claiming that Albanians are a Daco/Carpian offspring?

There's not any Z93 presence today in Albanians.
 
lol at Aspurg admitting Kuçi, Bjelopavlici, Lakic from Croatia, Sanxhaks and others as Albanians thinking that will suffice and his haplo will be spared. This is not marketplace and we already know they are Albanians. Just as you were albanophone most likely prior to slavicization.

Are you claiming that you are from South Serbia, you are Ev13 and you have brother clades among Albanians and major clade inside your clade is Albanian, do you say all that is accident?

We are not trading here, you can push to us these that we already know they are of Albanian origin but also we have sufficient proves to claim your clade also.

Btw spare us of lies that some Berisha had called me names or anything. Or that i have anything against Ev13 or against you. All of these are childish excuses that have no value at all.


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What's your point ? Are you claiming that Albanians are a Daco/Carpian offspring?


There's not any Z93 presence today in Albanians.


I know Z93 presence around Balkans. For some Karpëan descend an Albanian clade would have to share SNP with Karpëathians at about 1800-2000 ybp, and the clade would have to have more diversity in Karpëathians. And thus far only such case is a Szekely who belongs to E-Y161798 (454=12) but one haplotype there is not enough plus without more STR's/BigY his distance to others in unknown. There exists come unusual V13 clade up there as well as in Bulgaria with very high dys458=19/20 (like BY4461) but these have dys447=26 (not typical for CTS9320) and GATAH4=11, (not 12 like almost all BY4461). At FTDNA they consider them BY4461 candidates, but they could be also CTS9320- who mutated up to 20.

So thus far no real Karpëan candidates in Albanians..

P.S. Karpë is "rocky hill with sharp peak" and Carpathians are plenty of those no? So you might find some eventually..


Are you claiming that you are from South Serbia, you are Ev13 and you have brother clades among Albanians and major clade inside your clade is Albanian, do you say all that is accident?


3000 years away, all those. But I have far closer brother clade in Cumania, Pechenegce and near Kumanica 1 (in Bijelo Polje) and Kumanica 2 (in Rudnik area).

It is a bit accidental that my ancestors came from the Shop in 13th century during this 1253 Bulgarian raid.. Otherwise this clade would have stayed confined to Shop and no one could have considered it Westernbalkanoid.

Btw spare us of lies that some Berisha had called me names or anything. Or that i have anything against Ev13 or against you. All of these are childish excuses that have no value at all.

Did he? I read that somewhere (I saw that in a post of Bachus). And Berisha is Berisha, it's your former President/PM's family.:D
 
Actually as far as Malesia e Madhe is concerned, we have barely scratched the surface :LOL:

We only have like one or two samples from the major tribes. There are many minor tribes and composite tribes like Gruda, Koja, Trieshi, Kastrati etc up there that we need to test more thoroughly. Hopefully this year we can send someone up there.

In the study Mirabal et al. with 404 Montenegrin haplotypes at 17 STR's, there are 7 E-BY4461. I think they have been quite rare of those Montenegrins tested thus far so they might be Albanians from Tuzi area. In this sample percentage of E-V13 was elevated at 26.5 %. Majority of V13 seem to be large tribal bottlenecks:
27 Kuchi, 21 Vasojevici, 11 Bjelopavlici and 7 Bjelice (E-Z19851). These four are 16.5 % so 62 % of V13. There were 2 of my cousins but with identical haplotype to me, so nothing unusual.

These bottlenecks do elevate percentage, which applies to other haplogroups too (21 Ozrinic PH908 for example).
 
These old shots in the dark in the post I quote below have been all debunked.:D
Nice try idiot, but you were damn wrong.

This is great to observe who is biased against Albanians, just by checking old posts like this one, and I'm sure they haven't changed their minds yet, despite all genetic proof presented before them.

I think good roots for tribal name are in general: religion related terms, weapons used, or some legendary ruler....

possible ruler whose name Geghs carry may be Gyges ruler of Lydia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyges_of_Lydia

I have idea that stories of Gyges may be about E-V13 taking over power of Lydia from previous I2a2 ruling caste ...as Gyges was shepard unrelated to royal bloodlines and did overthrow the previous king...that might even explain attacks of I2a2 Cimmerians on country of Gyges.... note that Gyges asked for help from Egypt and Assyrians...which may be about related E haplogroup people....

Map_of_Lydia_ancient_times.jpg

Haplogroup_I2a.gif

Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg



this would make I2a2 proto-Serbs and E-V13 Albanian Geghs sworn enemies long time in past, and perhaps even explain why there is almost no I2a2 in Geghs while it is present in all other Balkan people...

Tosks might origin from subjugated I2a2 and J2b of Lydia, who mixed with E-V13 and accepted their language and culture.... their tribal name might be of same origin as for Etruscans/Tuscans who are known to have settled Italy from Lydia.....

movement of Tosks from Lydia to Balkan happened at unknown time, but might be related with the hole in spread of J2b in Lydia.... when they left Lydia, the vacated space was settled by people of some other haplogroups which made a hole in spread of J2b in Asia minor and hotspot of it in south Albania...

Haplogroup-J2.jpg
 
8 years ago, as opposed to the various hysteric, 2-digit IQ South Slavic lightbulbs that still post today.

Some Westerner got it right already back then:


:rolleyes:



Sure there is evidence, STR dating and diversity analysis, which points to a first millennium CE spread of I2a-Din-S, and indicates that I2a-Din-N is older. That places the center of diversity close to Belarus, not the Balkans, as we would expect if the Illyrians were the initial carriers. This is pretty well established among people who have analyzed Haplogroup I STR data. Ken Nordtvedt likes a first millennium spread via the Slavs, which seems reasonable to me. Try to do some research instead of assuming that we are using "fantasy thinking and logic."



Go ahead and make your point instead of expecting me to make it for you, because I don't know what you're getting at. The Balkans don't seem to be a special case of geographic isolation.

Btw, loled at I2a-Din back then being designated I2a2. I2a2 doesn't exist in South Slavs, but in Albanians and Greeks.

I2a-Din = I2a1b-CTS10228


This thread is long overdue and the chapter needs to be closed, for all good reasons.
 
Ok Parapolitikos, here is the right thread where you can explain this your alternative point of view of history.
Here is your post:
Many Albanians indeed suffer from ultranationalism induced fantasies. History , though,tells us another story, that the genetic influence was the other way around.
A very small nation(300 000 people 200 years ago based on ottoman censuses) that constantly was fed with the genetics of its neighbors due to Islam and the ottoman military structures.
Muslim Albanians were defacto the ruling class of much of the lower Balkans. Turks entrusted them , as kinds of subcontractors, to keep the ''law and order'' in the region. Aside from the incorporation of most Muslim converts in the (usually of mixed populations, other than the northern Albania) areas where Albanians lived into the Albanian ethnic group (in the albanian dominated pashaliks, Yanena and scutari,and rumeli eyalet in general) the child harvest , known as paidomazoma/yenitsaroi with Greeks and Janissaries in english, abducted and converted to Islam hundreds of thousands of children over the 300 years of the institution. In the Areas that Albanians ruled, those Janissaries corps were incorporated into the Albanian nation (due to the Muslim faith). Thus the peculiarities of Albanian Islam which was traditionally heavily influenced from the Bektashi order(yenissaries were all followers of that sect) due to the enormous impact of those corps to the Albanian society and ethnic group.

And here is my answer for the moment:
Your post is full of lies and completely of-topic. And you are not the first member in this thread who spread disinformation and attack the Albanians. The reason is that you suffer from ultranationalism that induce you to these fantasies. Find another thread where you can defend your opinion, always if you are able to do it, because as i said, you are of-topic here.

Now, tell us, what`s the story?
 
Ok Parapolitikos, here is the right thread where you can explain this your alternative point of view of history.
Here is your post:


And here is my answer for the moment:


Now, tell us, what`s the story?

Ottomans considered Greeks Rayahs and did not recruit them in military service.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayah

While the elite Corp of Jennisaries according to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "in early days, all Christians were enrolled indiscriminately. Later, those from Albania, Bosnia, and Bulgaria were preferred.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries

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Ottomans considered Greeks Rayahs and did not recruit them in military service.

Of course they did. Most Greek revolutionary leaders were Armatoloi in the service of the Albanian controlled pashaliks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armatoloi

While the elite Corp of Jennisaries according to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "in early days, all Christians were enrolled indiscriminately. Later, those from Albania, Bosnia, and Bulgaria were preferred.
So what? it lasted for 300 years and at this period greek kids were the main ethnicity that the ottomans recruited from.
Taking in mind that their numbers were always in the tens of thousands, that in fact means that the total number of kids abducted over the centuries were in the hundreds of thousands.
The Albanian pashaliks had a key role in the ''recruitment'' and taking in mind that circa 1800 Albanians weren't more than 500 000(in fact much less), the ''blood loan'' impact of those christian children was ENORMOUS to the genetics of the albanian nation. AS i said most likely because of Janissaries the Bektashis were a formidable community in Albania(probably the majority of muslim at some point in albania proper) all the way untill the commounist era and that inspite the ottoman violent persecution of them in the aftermath of the Ottoman-Albanian wars of the early 19th century.
Then you had conversions to Islam, which in what is today Fyrom, Kosovo, Albanian(and northern epirus) , and south Epirus meant incorporation into the Albanian nation, in the same manner that Becoming Muslim meant becoming Turk in much of the rest of rumeli. How many Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs by converting to islam were eventually albanized, none can say with certainty, but the genetic similarity of Albanians at each respective place with their Christian(non Albanian) neighbors tells us that in must have been extensive.
Then you had ''adult slave soldiers'' like the late ottoman Mamluk corps. They too were of christian origins that ''embraced'' Islam as a mean of eventually gaining their freedom. Their numbers were so great that they were able to wrestle away from the Sultan most of North Africa(where many were sent to serve as ottoman troops)
And we haven't spoken of the ''blood loans'' due to females yet.
In summary, the Albanian nation , as i said before, it was shaped by the ''blood loans'' it received, and none of what i reported it can be challenged by a serious person with sufficient historical knowledge. That was how things worked in the ottoman times . All those i wrote are pretty much, historical facts!
 
Big change on YFull tree of V13! At last BY3880 was recognized (as it is at FTDNA) as being parallel to L540 and E-Y35953/Z16663, however the Ossetian cluster is BY3880-!!:) 2 Ossetians in this cluster are 9/37 (others have less STR's) so it has some age among them.

BY3880 is very widespread and diverse in the Balkans as well.
Z16663 is also present in Asia Minor Greeks, Central Europe (I can vouch few Romanians there as well), West Balkans etc.
And last 2 are more interesting: Central Europe and Ossetia.
And atm these separated 4500 ybp. Possible there will be more tweaks..

TMRCA of BY3880 (87 % of V13 at YFull) dropped to 3800 ybp, while the BY3880, L540, Z16663 and Ossetian cluster separated 4500 ybp. Also TMRCA of PH1246 dropped to 4100 ybp. Also BY3880- is ERS1789480 who is some Ashkenazi.

This new Skrapar Albanian is atm 2200 ybp away from Bjelopavlici. Also Balkan Z19851 have been grouped, but the analysis for Bulgarian is not yet complete and he has dys390=24.
 
Of course they did. Most Greek revolutionary leaders were Armatoloi in the service of the Albanian controlled pashaliks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armatoloi


So what? it lasted for 300 years and at this period greek kids were the main ethnicity that the ottomans recruit from.
Taking in mind that their numbers were always in the tens of thousands, that in fact means that the total number of kids abducted were in the hundreds of thousands.
The Albanian pashaliks had a key role in ''recruitment'' and taking in mind that circa 1800 Albanians weren't more than 500 000(in fact much less), the ''blood loan'' impact of the christian children was ENORMOUS to the genetics of the albanian nation.
Then you had conversions to Islam, which in what is today Fyrom, Kosovo, Albanian(and northern epirus) , and south Epirus meant incorporation into the Albanian nation, in the same manner that Becoming Muslim meant becoming Turk in much of the rest of rumeli. How many Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs by converting to islam were eventually albanized, none can say with certainty, but the genetic similarity of Albanians at each respective place with their Christian(non Albanian) neighbors tells us that in must have been extensive.
Then you had ''adult slave soldiers'' like the late ottoman Mamluk corps. They too were of christian origins that ''embraced'' Islam as a mean of eventually gaining their freedom. Their numbers were so great that they were able to wrestle from the Sultan most of North Africa(where many were sent to serve as ottoman troops)
And we haven't spoken of the ''blood loans'' due to females yet.
In summary, the Albanian nation , as i said before, it was shaped by the ''blood loans'' it received, and none of what i reported it can be actually be challendged by a serious person with historical knowledge. That was how things worked in the ottoman times . All those are pretty much, historical FACTS!
This is incorrect. Based on autosomal DNA and IBD sharing Albanians are pretty distinct from their neighbours and are very homogeneous, the only noticeable input is from the Slavic migrations which date back all the way to the Medieval period, and in most cases this input doesn't exceed 20%. When it comes to Y-DNA haplogroups there isn't any major foreign input, Slavic lineages only reach about 14%. Greek input is virtually non-existent based on current data, even Germanic input is more significant at around 9%.
 
This is incorrect. Based on autosomal DNA and IBD sharing Albanians are pretty distinct from their neighbours and are very homogeneous, the only noticeable input is from the Slavic migrations which date back all the way to the Medieval period, and in most cases this input doesn't exceed 20%. When it comes to Y-DNA haplogroups there isn't any major foreign input, Slavic lineages only reach about 14%. Greek input is virtually non-existent based on current data, even Germanic input is more significant at around 9%.
Of course he is incorrect but let give some time to this guy to quote some credible source in order to prove his claims.
 

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