Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 44 of 44 FirstFirst ... 34424344
Results 1,076 to 1,092 of 1092

Thread: Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

  1. #1076
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    blevins13's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-10-16
    Location
    Tirana
    Age
    43
    Posts
    548
    Points
    3,055
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,055, Level: 16
    Level completed: 2%, Points required for next Level: 395
    Overall activity: 99.2%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2103>BY611
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7i1

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Ok Parapolitikos, here is the right thread where you can explain this your alternative point of view of history.
    Here is your post:


    And here is my answer for the moment:


    Now, tell us, what`s the story?
    Ottomans considered Greeks Rayahs and did not recruit them in military service.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayah

    While the elite Corp of Jennisaries according to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "in early days, all Christians were enrolled indiscriminately. Later, those from Albania, Bosnia, and Bulgaria were preferred.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries

    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  2. #1077
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-06-17
    Posts
    22
    Points
    571
    Level
    6
    Points: 571, Level: 6
    Level completed: 11%, Points required for next Level: 179
    Overall activity: 42.0%


    Country: Greece



    0 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Ottomans considered Greeks Rayahs and did not recruit them in military service.
    Of course they did. Most Greek revolutionary leaders were Armatoloi in the service of the Albanian controlled pashaliks.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armatoloi

    While the elite Corp of Jennisaries according to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "in early days, all Christians were enrolled indiscriminately. Later, those from Albania, Bosnia, and Bulgaria were preferred.
    So what? it lasted for 300 years and at this period greek kids were the main ethnicity that the ottomans recruited from.
    Taking in mind that their numbers were always in the tens of thousands, that in fact means that the total number of kids abducted over the centuries were in the hundreds of thousands.
    The Albanian pashaliks had a key role in the ''recruitment'' and taking in mind that circa 1800 Albanians weren't more than 500 000(in fact much less), the ''blood loan'' impact of those christian children was ENORMOUS to the genetics of the albanian nation. AS i said most likely because of Janissaries the Bektashis were a formidable community in Albania(probably the majority of muslim at some point in albania proper) all the way untill the commounist era and that inspite the ottoman violent persecution of them in the aftermath of the Ottoman-Albanian wars of the early 19th century.
    Then you had conversions to Islam, which in what is today Fyrom, Kosovo, Albanian(and northern epirus) , and south Epirus meant incorporation into the Albanian nation, in the same manner that Becoming Muslim meant becoming Turk in much of the rest of rumeli. How many Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs by converting to islam were eventually albanized, none can say with certainty, but the genetic similarity of Albanians at each respective place with their Christian(non Albanian) neighbors tells us that in must have been extensive.
    Then you had ''adult slave soldiers'' like the late ottoman Mamluk corps. They too were of christian origins that ''embraced'' Islam as a mean of eventually gaining their freedom. Their numbers were so great that they were able to wrestle away from the Sultan most of North Africa(where many were sent to serve as ottoman troops)
    And we haven't spoken of the ''blood loans'' due to females yet.
    In summary, the Albanian nation , as i said before, it was shaped by the ''blood loans'' it received, and none of what i reported it can be challenged by a serious person with sufficient historical knowledge. That was how things worked in the ottoman times . All those i wrote are pretty much, historical facts!

  3. #1078
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    04-03-18
    Posts
    185
    Points
    1,611
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,611, Level: 11
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 239
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-Z17107>A24048
    MtDNA haplogroup
    I1a1a

    Ethnic group
    Qun, Ermi
    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    Big change on YFull tree of V13! At last BY3880 was recognized (as it is at FTDNA) as being parallel to L540 and E-Y35953/Z16663, however the Ossetian cluster is BY3880-!! 2 Ossetians in this cluster are 9/37 (others have less STR's) so it has some age among them.

    BY3880 is very widespread and diverse in the Balkans as well.
    Z16663 is also present in Asia Minor Greeks, Central Europe (I can vouch few Romanians there as well), West Balkans etc.
    And last 2 are more interesting: Central Europe and Ossetia.
    And atm these separated 4500 ybp. Possible there will be more tweaks..

    TMRCA of BY3880 (87 % of V13 at YFull) dropped to 3800 ybp, while the BY3880, L540, Z16663 and Ossetian cluster separated 4500 ybp. Also TMRCA of PH1246 dropped to 4100 ybp. Also BY3880- is ERS1789480 who is some Ashkenazi.

    This new Skrapar Albanian is atm 2200 ybp away from Bjelopavlici. Also Balkan Z19851 have been grouped, but the analysis for Bulgarian is not yet complete and he has dys390=24.

  4. #1079
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-01-17
    Posts
    97
    Points
    2,103
    Level
    12
    Points: 2,103, Level: 12
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 47
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-P58
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1l

    Ethnic group
    Gheg Albanian-Kelmendi clan(Joined) but with supposed origin from Montenegro
    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    Of course they did. Most Greek revolutionary leaders were Armatoloi in the service of the Albanian controlled pashaliks.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armatoloi


    So what? it lasted for 300 years and at this period greek kids were the main ethnicity that the ottomans recruit from.
    Taking in mind that their numbers were always in the tens of thousands, that in fact means that the total number of kids abducted were in the hundreds of thousands.
    The Albanian pashaliks had a key role in ''recruitment'' and taking in mind that circa 1800 Albanians weren't more than 500 000(in fact much less), the ''blood loan'' impact of the christian children was ENORMOUS to the genetics of the albanian nation.
    Then you had conversions to Islam, which in what is today Fyrom, Kosovo, Albanian(and northern epirus) , and south Epirus meant incorporation into the Albanian nation, in the same manner that Becoming Muslim meant becoming Turk in much of the rest of rumeli. How many Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs by converting to islam were eventually albanized, none can say with certainty, but the genetic similarity of Albanians at each respective place with their Christian(non Albanian) neighbors tells us that in must have been extensive.
    Then you had ''adult slave soldiers'' like the late ottoman Mamluk corps. They too were of christian origins that ''embraced'' Islam as a mean of eventually gaining their freedom. Their numbers were so great that they were able to wrestle from the Sultan most of North Africa(where many were sent to serve as ottoman troops)
    And we haven't spoken of the ''blood loans'' due to females yet.
    In summary, the Albanian nation , as i said before, it was shaped by the ''blood loans'' it received, and none of what i reported it can be actually be challendged by a serious person with historical knowledge. That was how things worked in the ottoman times . All those are pretty much, historical FACTS!
    This is incorrect. Based on autosomal DNA and IBD sharing Albanians are pretty distinct from their neighbours and are very homogeneous, the only noticeable input is from the Slavic migrations which date back all the way to the Medieval period, and in most cases this input doesn't exceed 20%. When it comes to Y-DNA haplogroups there isn't any major foreign input, Slavic lineages only reach about 14%. Greek input is virtually non-existent based on current data, even Germanic input is more significant at around 9%.
    Ydna: J-ZS241

    mtDNA: T1a1l

    Maternal Ydna: E-V13>CTS5856*

  5. #1080
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    LABERIA's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-15
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    5,138
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,138, Level: 21
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 412
    Overall activity: 99.3%


    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    This is incorrect. Based on autosomal DNA and IBD sharing Albanians are pretty distinct from their neighbours and are very homogeneous, the only noticeable input is from the Slavic migrations which date back all the way to the Medieval period, and in most cases this input doesn't exceed 20%. When it comes to Y-DNA haplogroups there isn't any major foreign input, Slavic lineages only reach about 14%. Greek input is virtually non-existent based on current data, even Germanic input is more significant at around 9%.
    Of course he is incorrect but let give some time to this guy to quote some credible source in order to prove his claims.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


  6. #1081
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-06-17
    Posts
    22
    Points
    571
    Level
    6
    Points: 571, Level: 6
    Level completed: 11%, Points required for next Level: 179
    Overall activity: 42.0%


    Country: Greece



    0 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    This is incorrect. Based on autosomal DNA and IBD sharing Albanians are pretty distinct from their neighbours and are very homogeneous, the only noticeable input is from the Slavic migrations which date back all the way to the Medieval period, and in most cases this input doesn't exceed 20%. When it comes to Y-DNA haplogroups there isn't any major foreign input, Slavic lineages only reach about 14%. Greek input is virtually non-existent based on current data, even Germanic input is more significant at around 9%.
    You are speaking on a national level. I was talking about regional populations. Kossovo Albanians compared with Kossovo Serbs(although that is impossible now), Fyrom slavs with the Albanian communities next door. Montenegrin Slavs with Montenegrin Albanians(muslim). South Albanian Mulsims with Ipirote Greeks.

  7. #1082
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredRecommendation Second Class5000 Experience Points
    Dibran's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-09-16
    Posts
    720
    Points
    9,803
    Level
    29
    Points: 9,803, Level: 29
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 147
    Overall activity: 46.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a-L1029*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a2*-146+

    Ethnic group
    Albanian/Gheg/Dibran/Okshtun
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    You are speaking on a national level. I was talking about regional populations. Kossovo Albanians compared with Kossovo Serbs(although that is impossible now), Fyrom slavs with the Albanian communities next door. Montenegrin Slavs with Montenegrin Albanians(muslim). South Albanian Mulsims with Ipirote Greeks.
    Wrong. Most Albanians tested from all areas are genetically closely compact and homogeneous. Even papers have illustrated the high IBD sharing Albanians have. It is actually the reverse. Migrations of Albanians, Vlachs, and Slavs settled in Greece during the early to late middle ages. This is why Bulgarians cluster with Greeks and Northern Greeks to some degree with Albanians/Bulgarians/Macedonians which are quite removed from Southern Pelopoenssian Greeks. Were ancestry coming from the direction from Greece there would be no difference between the north and south of Greece. Also, large amounts of Anatolian Greeks were resettled in Greece after Muslim Greeks were expelled to the black sea coast of Turkey. This is why Island Greeks are genetically far removed from mainland Greeks. Albanians have always based things on blood ties.

    Greeks are the opposite, considering Anatolian Greeks who are only Greeks in name were accepted while full blooded Muslim Greeks were expelled. For Greeks religion is identity not blood. This is why we are homogeneous and you are more heterogeneous than we. Illustrating the varying genetic inputs you received and the homogeneous ties Albanians have. On both autosomal/YDNA level Greeks are for more diverse at present.

    Mixing occurred on all sides of course. However, you're over exaggerating it in the case of Albanians for obvious reasons. You were already given a infraction warning in another thread for your inflammatory comments towards Albanians. It's obvious where your head is at.

  8. #1083
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    LABERIA's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-15
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    5,138
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,138, Level: 21
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 412
    Overall activity: 99.3%


    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    Of course they did. Most Greek revolutionary leaders were Armatoloi in the service of the Albanian controlled pashaliks.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armatoloi


    So what? it lasted for 300 years and at this period greek kids were the main ethnicity that the ottomans recruited from.
    Taking in mind that their numbers were always in the tens of thousands, that in fact means that the total number of kids abducted over the centuries were in the hundreds of thousands.
    The Albanian pashaliks had a key role in the ''recruitment'' and taking in mind that circa 1800 Albanians weren't more than 500 000(in fact much less), the ''blood loan'' impact of those christian children was ENORMOUS to the genetics of the albanian nation. AS i said most likely because of Janissaries the Bektashis were a formidable community in Albania(probably the majority of muslim at some point in albania proper) all the way untill the commounist era and that inspite the ottoman violent persecution of them in the aftermath of the Ottoman-Albanian wars of the early 19th century.
    Then you had conversions to Islam, which in what is today Fyrom, Kosovo, Albanian(and northern epirus) , and south Epirus meant incorporation into the Albanian nation, in the same manner that Becoming Muslim meant becoming Turk in much of the rest of rumeli. How many Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs by converting to islam were eventually albanized, none can say with certainty, but the genetic similarity of Albanians at each respective place with their Christian(non Albanian) neighbors tells us that in must have been extensive.
    Then you had ''adult slave soldiers'' like the late ottoman Mamluk corps. They too were of christian origins that ''embraced'' Islam as a mean of eventually gaining their freedom. Their numbers were so great that they were able to wrestle away from the Sultan most of North Africa(where many were sent to serve as ottoman troops)
    And we haven't spoken of the ''blood loans'' due to females yet.
    In summary, the Albanian nation , as i said before, it was shaped by the ''blood loans'' it received, and none of what i reported it can be challenged by a serious person with sufficient historical knowledge. That was how things worked in the ottoman times . All those i wrote are pretty much, historical facts!
    Sorry to interrompe your diarrhea. Just my two cents about the rayah inhabitants who lived during the Ottoman Empire in what is today called Greece:

    I want to draw your attention to two moments:
    A Greek Minister (one of the pretended "coryphees" of liberalism and of extension of the kingdom) told lately a friend of mine:
    "les Grecs d'aujourd'hui sont des Turcs chrétiens et il faut les gouverner a la Turque".

    Translated with Google:
    "The Greeks of today are Christian Turks and we must govern them a la Turkish".
    And here you have the second moment of our interest:
    As distincly proved by Professor Fallmerayer, whose judgment is very correct. - The Greek of Byzantine and mixed descent is considered "fair pray" by the hardiest race of Slavic blood the same by the Albanian. - The latter even when a Mussulman, respect and fears the Christian of pure Albanian blood, in fact the people of both creeds often intermarry and mostly live unmolested in each other`s neighbourhood, but the Mussulman Albanian opresses, insults, robs and ill-treats the Christian Rayah of mixed descent living in the plains of Thessaly, Macedonia, Moesia, etc.
    This feeling of supremacy of the Albanian is so general that i saw in Greece Grivas and other chieftains of epirote descent that treat the mixed Byzantines of the Morea with outmost arrogance, calling them, even after the conclusion of the war, Rayahs and "Barbatches" (synonymus with "Fellahs") in contradistiction to the followers of the Capitani themselves, who are "Rumeliote Palicares" or "Albanian Soldiers".

    Source: "The Syrian War and the Decline of the Ottoman Empire, 1840-1848: In Reports, Documents, and ..."

    If you want i can quote plenty of other first hand testimony of who really were "Greeks" 200 years ago before the invention of the Greek nation by the Great Powers.
    But let return to your posts. The only thing that deserve attention in your post when you talk about Albanians:

    A very small nation(300 000 people 200 years ago based on ottoman censuses) that constantly was fed with the genetics of its neighbors due to Islam and the ottoman military structures.
    We have plenty of sources who tell us that large part of the territory of your country were called Albania. And biggest ethnic group in your country for many centuries were the Albanians. 200 years ago there was no Greek nation, but simply a bunch of "Barbatches", a social strata, the lowest, of mongrel rayahs. I can prove my claims. Can you prove your claim about Albanians?

  9. #1084
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-01-17
    Posts
    97
    Points
    2,103
    Level
    12
    Points: 2,103, Level: 12
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 47
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-P58
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1l

    Ethnic group
    Gheg Albanian-Kelmendi clan(Joined) but with supposed origin from Montenegro
    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    You are speaking on a national level. I was talking about regional populations. Kossovo Albanians compared with Kossovo Serbs(although that is impossible now), Fyrom slavs with the Albanian communities next door. Montenegrin Slavs with Montenegrin Albanians(muslim). South Albanian Mulsims with Ipirote Greeks.
    There you are wrong again. Kosovo Albanians, Montenegrin Albanians and Macedonian Albanians have hardly any autosomal relation to their Slavic neighbours who plot with other South Slavic groups. The closest South Slavs to Albanians in terms of autosomal admix are Macedonians but that is purely because of how they have large amounts of Palaeo-Balkanic admix compared to other Slavs. Eastern Montenegrins have some relation to Albanians but that is due to some of them being of Albanian origin. In terms of Y-DNA haplogroups, Slavic lineages only account for about 10% of the lineages present among these Albanians. South Albanians aren't all that similar to Greeks apart from the autosomal relation, which all Albanians have with Greeks and is due to a Palaeo-Balkanic source. Greek Y-DNA haplogroups are almost non-existent.

  10. #1085
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Dema's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-10-17
    Posts
    314
    Points
    2,556
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,556, Level: 14
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 194
    Overall activity: 46.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205*

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    If anything its Albanians who donated to create other nations and not the other way around.

    Greek nation is made out of assimilating Albanians, Slavs and Turks with addition of few original Greeks.

    Even Osli said that in Greece Slavs with names like Slobodan and Milosh were taking Greek names like Christos and Dimitris and its how modern Greek nation was created.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

  11. #1086
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-11-17
    Posts
    273
    Points
    1,744
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,744, Level: 11
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 106
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    You are speaking on a national level. I was talking about regional populations. Kossovo Albanians compared with Kossovo Serbs(although that is impossible now), Fyrom slavs with the Albanian communities next door. Montenegrin Slavs with Montenegrin Albanians(muslim). South Albanian Mulsims with Ipirote Greeks.
    Kosovo Serbs and Montendgrins (both ploting more southern than other Serbs) are far away from Albanians autosomally, even from Albanians from Montenegro and Kosovo.

    Here are results of one Kosovo Serb (I2-PH908).



  12. #1087
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-06-17
    Posts
    22
    Points
    571
    Level
    6
    Points: 571, Level: 6
    Level completed: 11%, Points required for next Level: 179
    Overall activity: 42.0%


    Country: Greece



    Kosovo Serbs and Montendgrins (both ploting more southern than other Serbs) are far away from Albanians autosomally, even from Albanians from Montenegro and Kosovo.
    Far away would be the distance between a Serb and an Irish.
    Those result are pretty closed to the one you would get from Albanians of same regions.
    On Average Albanians would get lower Baltic and Atlantic, and higher east and west Mediterranean.

    Albanians from Montenegro

    Spoiler!
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Baltic 24.35
    2 West_Med 20.56
    3 East_Med 20.31
    4 North_Atlantic 17.82
    5 West_Asian 13.31
    6 Red_Sea 2.66



    Spoiler!
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 24.49
    2 Baltic 22.59
    3 East_Med 19.55
    4 West_Med 19.48
    5 West_Asian 9.68
    6 Red_Sea 2.01
    7 Siberian 1.15


    Spoiler!
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 24.10
    2 North_Atlantic 22.42
    3 Baltic 20.00
    4 West_Med 19.79
    5 West_Asian 11.25


  13. #1088
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    09-01-17
    Posts
    97
    Points
    2,103
    Level
    12
    Points: 2,103, Level: 12
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 47
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-P58
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1l

    Ethnic group
    Gheg Albanian-Kelmendi clan(Joined) but with supposed origin from Montenegro
    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    Far away would be the distance between a Serb and an Irish.
    Those result are pretty closed to the one you would get from Albanians of same regions.
    On Average Albanians would get lower Baltic and Atlantic, and higher east and west Mediterranean.

    Albanians from Montenegro

    Spoiler!
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Baltic 24.35
    2 West_Med 20.56
    3 East_Med 20.31
    4 North_Atlantic 17.82
    5 West_Asian 13.31
    6 Red_Sea 2.66



    Spoiler!
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 24.49
    2 Baltic 22.59
    3 East_Med 19.55
    4 West_Med 19.48
    5 West_Asian 9.68
    6 Red_Sea 2.01
    7 Siberian 1.15


    Spoiler!
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 24.10
    2 North_Atlantic 22.42
    3 Baltic 20.00
    4 West_Med 19.79
    5 West_Asian 11.25

    Still the point is that these Serbs still cluster with other Serbs and don't form a close cluster with the Albanians from that region. An Albanian from Montenegro is far closer to an Albanian from the south or Kosovo than they are to Montenegrin Serbs, this is a fact. Albanians as a group form a close cluster, the same can't be said for Greeks on the other hand who show massive variations, especially mainlanders and islanders. Of course there was some intermixing between Albanians and their neighbours, that is only natural. But it's clear that it was pretty minimal and that it was foreign women that married Albanian men.

  14. #1089
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Fatherland's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-03-17
    Posts
    369
    Points
    849
    Level
    7
    Points: 849, Level: 7
    Level completed: 50%, Points required for next Level: 101
    Overall activity: 18.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Albania



    Greeks, especially the mainland Greeks have way more Albanian-type yDNA than vice-versa. Not surprising since much of mainland Greece was Albanian-speaking until a century ago or so. :)

  15. #1090
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Dema's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-10-17
    Posts
    314
    Points
    2,556
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,556, Level: 14
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 194
    Overall activity: 46.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205*

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    It is possible to connect your cluster with Illyrians if it’s not a recent arrival, and there is no hard evidence to suggest it is. Krici were a known tribe.




    I agree for your clade Pechenegs are not likely.



    Talk to him then, you have so many cousins among Serbs, I won't be your mediator. I can give you credit for testing, I know Urosevic wrote your family were "Arnautasi". But thus far you don't have closer relatives among Serbs.





    Y-chromosomal evidence of the cultural diffusion of agriculture in southeast Europe


    DYS19 YCAIIa YCAIIb DYS388 DYS 389I1 DYS 389II1 DYS 390 DYS 391 DYS392 DYS393 DYS439 DYS460


    Caucasus Balkarian J-M12/M102* 15 20 19 15 12 28 24 10 12 12 10




    You see his 390=24 is unusual in your cluster (23). Also he has460=10. Unusual in your cluster (11).



    This Hungarian has 392=12, also 390=24 and in this clade 460=10 iscommon. Modal for J-Z2453
    E013/2016Viss J2b-M12 12 24 15 10 14/17 13 12 12 28 17 15 19 11 15 16 22 9 23 13 11 22 9




    I never claimed Thracian. Carpathians are a mountain range/region. I do not satisfy myself with just one period.. I explore them all.




    I can read basic Albanian. Unlike most people if I wanted to learn Albanian I’d be fluent in few months at most, I do speak Turkish though, and I knew it before I was into this, so you see why I embrace my ancestry so much.


    I was busy and traveling back then, now i have taken a better look. Now i see that i have already worked on this study, but i have not finished it because i switched to another study that was more interesting to me.
    So i never reached to this Balkarian sample. But now when i have take a look at it i have to say that i partially agree with you.

    So, his DYS390 is 24 instead of 23 but that can be random mutation, then DYS340 there is multicopy difference but since its fast mutating marker that is also not that of a big deal.
    But his Ycall actually is also very off-modal, he has 20-19 while most of M205 have 19-20, so reverse, and 20-19 is yet unseen among J2-M205 in general.


    Therefore there is too many differences even on this low number of markers to ever conclude that he is M205, and there is no connection whatsoever to our clade.

    Ask Nebojsha how come he was calming for years there is no M205 Albanians (actually he said there is only one Tosk) when i found them in multiple subclades in Ferri et al, Bosch et al and Sarno et al?
    I have talked to some M205 Serbs, there is really some cool guys but not Nebojsa since he was saying stuff about me, i dont need mediator, you are late to all this.
    Regarding Albanian language i would suggest learning it to both you and Nebojsha, they say after learning Albanian every next language is way easier to learn.

    Btw Arnaut simply means Albanian in Ottoman time. There is not a single proof why Urosevic should be trusted since we have much earlier memories also we know it because of land distribution. Urosevic was late...


    Do you know that we have none responsive Dema surname from Albania tested J2-M205 on 23andme, and there is another 23andme Albanian from Montenegro most likely Krici subclade. Also somewhat none responsive.

  16. #1091
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsTagger Second ClassVeteran
    JajarBingan's Avatar
    Join Date
    25-05-16
    Posts
    150
    Points
    2,419
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,419, Level: 13
    Level completed: 90%, Points required for next Level: 31
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2 (I-S17250)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2a1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Thracian/proto-Thracian R1a-Z93 sample from Bulgaria is the closest to Swedes. Approximation of modern populations is 3/4 Nothern Swede and 1/4 Caucasian alike.

    Eurogenes K15

    Admix Result (sorted):

    #Population percent
    1 North_Sea 35.32
    2 Eastern_Euro 19.23
    3 Baltic 13.65
    4 Atlantic 13.45
    5 West_Asian 12.95
    6 South_Asian 3.15
    7 Amerindian 2.05

    Single Population Sharing:

    #Population (source) Distance:
    1 North_Swedish 13.52
    2 Swedish 15.34
    3 Finnish 15.54
    4 Southwest_Finnish 15.82
    5 Norwegian 15.93
    6 East_German 17.21
    7 North_German 17.24
    8 West_Norwegian 17.25
    9 Danish 17.71
    10 Hungarian 17.94
    11 East_Finnish 18.02
    12 North_Dutch 18.06
    13 West_German 18.34
    14 South_Polish 19.7
    15 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.72
    16 Ukrainian 19.84
    17 Estonian 20.15
    18 Orcadian 20.35
    19 West_Scottish 20.42
    20 South_Dutch 20.48

    Mixed Population Mode Sharing:

    #Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source)
    1 75.5% North_Swedish +24.5% Tabassaran @ 7.58
    2 77.6% North_Swedish + 22.4% Lezgin @ 8.67
    3 79% North_Swedish + 21% Chechen @ 8.67
    4 73.4% Swedish + 26.6% Tabassaran @ 9.11
    5 81.6% North_Swedish + 18.4% Adygei @ 9.45
    6 82.1% North_Swedish + 17.9% Ossetian @ 9.52
    7 72.7% Norwegian + 27.3% Tabassaran @ 9.53
    8 80.9% North_Swedish + 19.1 Kabardin @ 9.57
    9 80.3% North_Swedish + 19.7% Afghan_Pashtun @ 9.58
    10 82.5% North_Swedish + 17.5% Kalash @ 9.59




    This Thracian ploting much more northern than your "Nordic Aryan" Bosniaks from central Bosnia, my dear Cuman wannabe friend.
    This "Thracian" from ~1700 BC falls outside of the time horizon for Thracians. He is possibly, one of the ancestors of Thracians, who brought the language. However, actual settled Thracians and not steppe nomads, like I5769 from 400 BC, are more Southern than modern mainland Greeks.

    This development will pretty much mirror what happened everywhere across Southeast Europe.

    Steppe nomads would have brought the Indo-European languages, settled down and mixed with the numerically superior farmers. Afterwards, this fusion, which would call themselves Thracians/Dacians/Illyrians/Mycaeneans/etc. would look roughly 20% steppe for Thracians to 10% for Mycenaeans.

    Modern mainland Greeks and Albanians are about 32% steppe. Bulgarians, Serbs and Romanians - 40%.

    Given that, the medieval Slavic migrations and settlements are probably the cause for the increase in the steppe input for non-Slavic speakers, while the pre-Slavic locals are the root of the farmer surge in South Slavs as opposed to other Slavs.

    It's pretty obvious already really but more samples from the region are always welcome.


  17. #1092
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Tagger Second Class1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    Dema's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-10-17
    Posts
    314
    Points
    2,556
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,556, Level: 14
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 194
    Overall activity: 46.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205*

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    Ottomans considered Greeks Rayahs and did not recruit them in military service.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayah

    Very interesting text there, do you know that especially in Bosnia and somewhat all surrounding countries they still say raja for regular crowd, or just a crowd of people.

Page 44 of 44 FirstFirst ... 34424344

Similar Threads

  1. Haplogroups in Albanians
    By Dale Cooper in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-02-18, 09:51
  2. Albanians (OFFTOPIC Macedonians)
    By Besir Bajrami in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 201
    Last Post: 04-09-14, 23:07
  3. Do they look albanians/montenegrins/bosnians etc.. ?
    By julia90 in forum Guess the Ethnicity
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 23-09-13, 13:43
  4. Replies: 281
    Last Post: 09-06-13, 11:51

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •