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Thread: Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malsori View Post
    In Kosovo R1b is higher than J2b2 i think. I am not sure about Albania. Two studies confirmed that, in one of the study R1b was 21.5% and in the other from Cruciani 25% while J2b2 was somewhat 17%.

    Probably there was a haplogroup percentage changes from Illyrian onward Albanians. Maybe the EV-13 was not so common as is today. Important to note that in one study(cannot remember which) Tosks scored 10% with the Early Neolithic/Cardial Ware haplogroup G2a.
    There's not study where southern albanians have ever scored 10% G2a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    There's not study where southern albanians have ever scored 10% G2a
    Sorry, my mistake. I think it was Arberesh people in a Italian city which scored 10% G2a not Tosks overall.

    Anyway, why is a Finn so concerned about Albanian genetics? I see most of your posts is about us.

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    I read that 8% of Kosovo R1b is a special subclade related only to Kosovar's. Kosovar's really stand appart in Ballkans. There are 3 haplogroups centered in Kosovo E, J, R1b

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I read that 8% of Kosovo R1b is a special subclade related only to Kosovar's. Kosovar's really stand appart in Ballkans. There are 3 haplogroups centered in Kosovo E, J, R1b
    It's R1b- M269.
    An older clade that is typical for Balkans, Bell Beakers were R1b...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    It's R1b- M269.
    An older clade that is typical for Balkans, Bell Beakers were R1b...
    Thanks for the explanations. I am a beginner in genetics. I like the forum, your comments and Maciammo,s most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no 2 View Post
    real question about Albanians is their relation with Dardanians and Illyrians...

    and while I am prone to believe that there is relation between Albaninans and Dardanians.....possibility for relation of Albanians to Illyrians is still kind of mistery....

    also real extent of Illyrians is mystery.... especially condsidering that Slavs were by Jordanes described as race of Veneti thus Venetic people, and that Pannoni tribes (one of them that inhabited Plitvice lakes complex was carrying clearly Slavic tribal name Oseriates which is translatable as 'lake people') were called Illyrian tribes only based on fact that they lived in Roman province of Illyria....

    basically, key question is whether Illyrians were E-V13 dominant or I2a2 dominant....

    arguments for E-V13:
    1) high variation in Dalmatia....
    2) Steven Byrd claims that E-V13 in Britain is due to Roman soldiers from Balkan (I do not really believe this but it does make some sense). But there is no I2a2-Dinaric in Britain....

    arguments for I2a2:
    1) in Dalmatia is high frequency of I2a2,
    2) low frequency of E-V13,
    3) there is I2a2 spread along Adriatic in Italy.... and Illyrians settlement there are recorded in history while there were no massive Slavic settlements there...
    4)Illyrians are described as tall people, with their tribes known just for long wars among themselves....
    Albanians are in average shorter mediteranean people who never had real wars between themselves...
    while south Slavs are in average taller people, and have history of wars among their tribes....
    based on what i hear form you, i don't think you know that much of Albanians. this mainly about the Albanians fighting with each other, unfortunately the blood feud between two big families which before were tribes is still present in mountainous regions of Albania, my father's grandfather was killed only because he belonged to the GASHI tribe (so i also belong to the same tribe) from a guy of KELMENDI tribe. this is precisely the reason why Albanians remain divided today, because they were natural inhibitors of the region and did not think of invasion and grouping and state and politization until empires started invading our natural lands, then it was too late, as europe decided to split natural Albanian inhibited lands BTW the new comers-our neighbors, i guess besides greece

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Toshks and Gegh's where a J2 tribes that moved from Anatolia. Overall, Albanians, paternally, are a vivid admixture of several haplogroups with their own different points of origin. Although, the foreign "Neolithic" element is much higher in Albania than other countries of Europe, they're 25% E1b1b, 20% J2, ( about 50% foreign elements ). 15% R1b, 10% R1a and 12-15% I2a. Albanians are predominantly E3b + J2 with a mix of R1b, I2a and even R1a elements.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Toshks and Gegh's where a J2 tribes that moved from Anatolia. Overall, Albanians, paternally, are a vivid admixture of several haplogroups with their own different points of origin. Although, the foreign "Neolithic" element is much higher in Albania than other countries of Europe, they're 25% E1b1b, 20% J2, ( about 50% foreign elements ). 15% R1b, 10% R1a and 12-15% I2a. Albanians are predominantly E3b + J2 with a mix of R1b, I2a and even R1a elements.
    Your data are all wrong.
    Up +35-40% are E-V13, 22-28% R1b, 12-14% J2e, 6% I1 (exclusive is scandinavian/german), 3-5% I2b, R1a 2-3%

    so R1b is second most common haplogroup among Albanians and is most highest in Balkan.

    E-V13, R1b dhe J2e were at least more 8000 years that lived in Balkan/Anatolia.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Maciamo i think Albania y dna .. must update..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prengu View Post
    Your data are all wrong.
    Up +35-40% are E-V13, 22-28% R1b, 12-14% J2e, 6% I1 (exclusive is scandinavian/german), 3-5% I2b, R1a 2-3%

    so R1b is second most common haplogroup among Albanians and is most highest in Balkan.

    E-V13, R1b dhe J2e were at least more 8000 years that lived in Balkan/Anatolia.
    Have you 1 Source ?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    R1b in Albania never passes 20 or so % on a national level. J2 is found in about 20% of Albanian men. R1a is found in 10-13% of men. 15-20% haplogroup I all types combined, on a national level. E3b is found in 20-30% of Albanian men, but as high as 40% in certain regions, but never that high on a national level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    R1b in Albania never passes 20 or so % on a national level. J2 is found in about 20% of Albanian men. R1a is found in 10-13% of men. 15-20% haplogroup I all types combined, on a national level. E3b is found in 20-30% of Albanian men, but as high as 40% in certain regions, but never that high on a national level.
    Source ?.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albania View Post
    Source ?.......
    Shqipe, te kom derguar nji Private Mail ne ket forum. Tmujsh lexoje.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prengu View Post
    Your data are all wrong.
    Up +35-40% are E-V13, 22-28% R1b, 12-14% J2e, 6% I1 (exclusive is scandinavian/german), 3-5% I2b, R1a 2-3%

    so R1b is second most common haplogroup among Albanians and is most highest in Balkan.

    E-V13, R1b dhe J2e were at least more 8000 years that lived in Balkan/Anatolia.
    My opinion is that Albanian samples are really small. Some are as small as 30 people so reliability of them is minimal. Only Kosovo samples are somehow acceptable (114 people) but still small to have a clear picture. We saw that when Croatian samples become 1000 people the difference of haplogroups reached over 5%. I believe that Albanian R1b is around 20% (from 16% they say we are) and slavic presence in southern Albania could be also 20%. We will know the real picture when Albanian Geneticists do a study. But again they do not show any interest to study the haplogroups in Albanian population. Bottom line: Samples are too small to be taken seriously.

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    Sources: Expedia y-DNA chart, haplogroup frequencies of European countries Wikipedia. ( excluding Albanians in another country, only Albanians of Albania...nor did I include arbereshe Albanians of south Italy.

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    I was wondering, I am tested positive as E1b1b1a1b V-13. I am Italian-Canadian of southern Italian Heritage specifically Matera,Italy. (I know my ancient ancestry is North African E1b1b1) but more recently would it be a possibility that for eg. 600-800 years ago my great-great,great,great,great,great grandfather might of been an immigrant from Albania or Greece or Turkey and immigrated to southern Italy. what are the percentages of what type of group of people I might of descended from. Speaking in a range of 400 to 1000 years ago. In my family some people say that we might of been Jews from Greece or somewhere in southeastern Mediterranean that moved to Italy for what ever reason.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matera View Post
    I was wondering, I am tested positive as E1b1b1a1b V-13. I am Italian-Canadian of southern Italian Heritage specifically Matera,Italy. (I know my ancient ancestry is North African E1b1b1) but more recently would it be a possibility that for eg. 600-800 years ago my great-great,great,great,great,great grandfather might of been an immigrant from Albania or Greece or Turkey and immigrated to southern Italy. what are the percentages of what type of group of people I might of descended from. Speaking in a range of 400 to 1000 years ago. In my family some people say that we might of been Jews from Greece or somewhere in southeastern Mediterranean that moved to Italy for what ever reason.
    Some possible explanations:

    -Around 1500 AD there was a big influx of albanians into southern-italy to escape the ottoman occupation. They still have albanian speaking villages there.

    -it might be albanian immigrants or soldiers from roman times or earlier.

    -it might be ancient greek from magna grecia in southern italy.

    -or you're just italian, E v-13 has probably been in italy since the stone-age.

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    Your ancestors migrated from North Africa (Egypt in particular) to the levant (coast of the middle east) from where they subsequently migrated to Balkans ( Albania, Serbia,Greece, Macedonia) a long time ago. During the Ancient Greek colonization of Magna Grecia ( parts of southern Italy) your ancestors migrated to the southern italian peninsula. E-V13 is a sub-branch of the Libyan/egyptoid E-M78, a non-negroid North African subclade of the extensively large haplogroup E family tree. E-V13 migrated to coastal regions of the Middle East and subsequently moved from there to the Balkans in extreme south-eastern Europe. About 25% of greek men still today find their roots from ancient NORTH-African blood, men similar to ancient and modern Egyptians in particular and not the E-M81 sub-branch that dominates Algeria/morocco etc, a different north-African branch. Also, Albanians have 25-30% E3b, 20-25% of Bulgarians, 20% of Macedonians and Serbians also, and 15% or so of Portuguese men. In Italy, where you hail from, it is found in 10% of men on a national level. The south and Sicily although, have frequencies of 18-20% E3b. These are the European statistics for E3b, the levels in north-Africa are SIGNIFICANTLY higher with all regions between morocco and Egypt, in a directly straight west to east line, having frequencies of 50% (Egyptians) to as high as 80% (Moroccans). All this E3b though in these North African countries ( and many European countries I stated) is not all E-V13, FAR from it, but its all E3b, as your subclade also is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matera View Post
    I was wondering, I am tested positive as E1b1b1a1b V-13. I am Italian-Canadian of southern Italian Heritage specifically Matera,Italy. (I know my ancient ancestry is North African E1b1b1) but more recently would it be a possibility that for eg. 600-800 years ago my great-great,great,great,great,great grandfather might of been an immigrant from Albania or Greece or Turkey and immigrated to southern Italy. what are the percentages of what type of group of people I might of descended from. Speaking in a range of 400 to 1000 years ago. In my family some people say that we might of been Jews from Greece or somewhere in southeastern Mediterranean that moved to Italy for what ever reason.
    Have you considered the Arbereshe?
    Albanians (Arbereshe) were granted land in the Kingdom of Naples as early as the 1450s (Demetrio Reres) with a full scale migration after Skanderbegs death (~1470s and throughout the 16th cen.).

    That would fit your time-range.

    Boattini et al (2010)
    modern Arbereshe Y-DNA in comparrison with modern Albanian Y-DNA (after ~500 years apart)
    http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2010/07/...eshe-from.html

    Unfortunately the chart doesnt specify the subclades:
    E1b1b1a
    Arbereshe = 28%
    Albanian = 23%

    I-M170
    Arbereshe = 23%
    Albanian = 17%

    R1a1
    Arbereshe = 13%
    Albanian = 13%


    But acc. to Cruciani et al (2007) E-V13 in South Italy = 8.51% / Sicily = 7.19% / Albania = 32.29%
    http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten....full.pdf+html

    This Ethnographic map from 1859, shows a subsatntial Arberesh (in Green) area near [prob. around] Matera.

    Other areas of Arbereshe in Lucania (Basilicata) are the Monte Vulture area Ginestra / Barile / Maschito

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    Have you considered the Arbereshe?
    Albanians (Arbereshe) were granted land in the Kingdom of Naples as early as the 1450s (Demetrio Reres) with a full scale migration after Skanderbegs death (~1470s and throughout the 16th cen.).

    That would fit your time-range.

    Boattini et al (2010)
    modern Arbereshe Y-DNA in comparrison with modern Albanian Y-DNA (after ~500 years apart)
    http://dienekes.blogspot.de/2010/07/...eshe-from.html

    Unfortunately the chart doesnt specify the subclades:
    E1b1b1a
    Arbereshe = 28%
    Albanian = 23%

    I-M170
    Arbereshe = 23%
    Albanian = 17%


    But acc. to Cruciani et al (2007) E-V13 in South Italy = 8.51% / Sicily = 7.19% / Albania = 32.29%
    http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten....full.pdf+html

    This Ethnographic map from 1859, shows a subsatntial Arberesh (in Green) area near [prob. around] Matera.

    Other areas of Arbereshe in Lucania (Basilicata) are the Monte Vulture area Ginestra / Barile / Maschito

    The difference in Arberesh is that never settle in Albania,
    After Maniakis death they migrated to modern Albania from Italy, they revolt and they moved to Peloponese, (around 1040-1100 AD)
    where they were forced to leave by Turkish admiral Barbaros,
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    Some possible explanations:

    -Around 1500 AD there was a big influx of albanians into southern-italy to escape the ottoman occupation. They still have albanian speaking villages there.

    -it might be albanian immigrants or soldiers from roman times or earlier.

    -it might be ancient greek from magna grecia in southern italy.

    -or you're just italian, E v-13 has probably been in italy since the stone-age.

    most likely north-african from the carthagian times...basically lybi-phoenician men, women and children, take to Italy after the defeat of Hannibal at Zama.
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    most likely north-african from the carthagian times...basically lybi-phoenician men, women and children, take to Italy after the defeat of Hannibal at Zama.
    Except E-V13 is very rare in Africa so probably some Balkan ancestor is far more credible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    Except E-V13 is very rare in Africa so probably some Balkan ancestor is far more credible.
    hmmm
    interesting, are we speaking about parthenogenesis of E-v13 in Balkans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    Except E-V13 is very rare in Africa so probably some Balkan ancestor is far more credible.
    'Rare', but it originated there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldritch View Post
    Except E-V13 is very rare in Africa so probably some Balkan ancestor is far more credible.
    except in the 3rd Carthaginian-roman war in 146BC, the whole population was taken to southern Italy as slaves...Carthage was destroyed, the city was pulled down to ground level, the pine trees all cut down for Roman shipping, drinking water poisoned and the soil salted. We are talking here of a complete movement of people.

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