Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

I mean the logic is, if we originated in morava valley, when slavs forefathers of serbs were still some small undeveloped politically, first slavs wouldn't be enough strong to push us downwards, so they could just bypass us, but the following ones that started forming in primitive kinds of despotates could be enough strong to push us back, the question now is, wherw did we originated exactly, how could we survive total latinization, how is it possible that we have a big substratum of words with romanians and their forefathers, and one question for you, have u ever seen the studies of a british professor called dr.Basset trumper?what do you think about him?He even cited some common features among albanians and baltics.
 
Then lately a lot of scholars, such as two austrian professors, have contested the illiryan theory, i don't know what our scholars do, are they actually in a dormient status or what, i don't see ne w studies coming out of them.
 
I proposed my ogical one, if u get mad at me so fast I don't know what u would do seeing the fairytales written on pan-slavic forums about I2 that came into Balkans 50000 years ago, HAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHHAHAAA, LoL.
Here is the crux of your problem. You seem be spending too much
time on pan slav forums (strange...). 95% of the fake facts you listed about albanian linguistics are just plain wrong and nothing more than propaganda. Your theories about j2 are flat out wrong. The albanian J2b that was found in croatia was high steppe, he wasnt a farmer.Stop doing the cetniks work for free if you dont know what it is your saying. All those theories that spread in pan slav forums about so called linguists are plain untrue. Cabej demonstrated long ago indigenous sea words and yet they still repeat this. All your theories were wrong and show a lack of background knowledge. Lurk more and catch up on the theories before spreading cetnik propaganda
 
I mean the logic is, if we originated in morava valley, when slavs forefathers of serbs were still some small undeveloped politically, first slavs wouldn't be enough strong to push us downwards, so they could just bypass us, but the following ones that started forming in primitive kinds of despotates could be enough strong to push us back, the question now is, wherw did we originated exactly, how could we survive total latinization, how is it possible that we have a big substratum of words with romanians and their forefathers, and one question for you, have u ever seen the studies of a british professor called dr.Basset trumper?what do you think about him?He even cited some common features among albanians and baltics.

Honestly i don`t know who is this doctor. But i want to tell you a curiosity because only in this way you understand of what you are talking.
Robert Elsie was the author of the Historical Dictionary of Albania and Historical Dictionary of Kosova.
I will quote you a small part from an interview of Elsie for an Albanian TV.

Gg translation:
First I want to share with the viewer the reason why you are in “Albanian” this time. Books that you want to promote are the Historical Dictionary of Albania and Kosovo in Albanian and English. Can you explain to viewers what are these books?
These books that came out in English recently, are periodical books that includes every country in the world and I was charged with designing a publication for Albania. It`s called historical dictionary of Albania and Kosova but in the end are more like vocabulary, general encyclopedia with information not only historical but also the culture, economy, geography, etc. I started with the volume of Albania. I put a limit on the volume no more than 250 pages needed to do this and when I finished i had more than 500 pages. The publisher was a bit disappointed. She said, "If we walk so, the volume of the country will come greater than the volume of Russia" nonetheless accepted and actually went greater than that of Russia, this small encyclopedia of Albania.

In the year 1968, for the 500 anniversary of the death of Scanderbeg was published in Albania a book that included all the bibliography on Scanderbeg. The number of books dedicated to Scanderbeg has supperated the 1.000 titles. 50 years ago. How many are today after 50 years?

Now, do you understand how many authors
have wrote about Albania until now? Do you know how many theories there are? But theories are theories and facts are facts. I live here, this is an fact.

 
According to this guy, Albanian interacted with a (possibly extinct) Western Romance language, not Romanian:

Madgearu, Alexandru; Gordon, Martin. The Wars of the Balkan Peninsula: Their Medieval Origins. pp. 146–147.

Somebody who has the book could share those pages?
 
Then lately a lot of scholars, such as two austrian professors, have contested the illiryan theory, i don't know what our scholars do, are they actually in a dormient status or what, i don't see ne w studies coming out of them.
I want to see what exactly these austrian professors exactly said, not some article, but the scientific paper that they produced at the end of their mission in Albania.
 
You know if Latins and others owned all the ports and ships then it would be expected that Albanians would pick up the words for sea based things (ship, sea, pier etc) from Latin and others. Old words fall by the wayside as they adopt the borrowed words they hear more often instead.
 
I have great misgivings for all the nonsense reification applied in taking tree models designed to help us understand larger migrations and trying to conform everything in all known languages to these trees. There are trees of languages yes, many languages directly descend from others but... linguistic innovation waves occurred everywhere between all languages. When we try to fit reality onto the tree of languages, it’s not going to fit perfectly because of all the waves that get in the way. Is Albanian related to Slavic languages? Yes but about as much as it is related to Greek or German or Latin.
 
@Gannicus

If you really want to learn about where people came from, forget about linguistic, cultural or ethnographic theories. Start from scratch by looking at the trail of DNA, especially Y-DNA. Check this map: http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#6/45.228/19.270. Then look at what clades people from each ethnic group fall into. That will give you an idea of where most haplogroups could be found at different times. Regarding movements of peoples, which is what you are talking about, culture-centered theories can only serve to hypothesize about what DNA has not discovered yet.
 
I mean the logic is, if we originated in morava valley, when slavs forefathers of serbs were still some small undeveloped politically, first slavs wouldn't be enough strong to push us downwards, so they could just bypass us, but the following ones that started forming in primitive kinds of despotates could be enough strong to push us back, the question now is, wherw did we originated exactly, how could we survive total latinization, how is it possible that we have a big substratum of words with romanians and their forefathers, and one question for you, have u ever seen the studies of a british professor called dr.Basset trumper?what do you think about him?He even cited some common features among albanians and baltics.

This hypothesis does not match with the DNA composition of Albanians, first identify, which Y-dna moved from Romania [emoji1205] to Albania and then lay down all these...without DNA model you have just word in thin air.....waste of time.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
Actually,the fall of the intervocalic consonant can also be found in Italian,Mediolanum-->Milano.


The Albanian-Romanian n-r rhotacism,perhaps to be found in Spanish and French,London-->Londres.
 
thank you all for your replys.
 
I would be glad to you if u could provide me some links on those who you reputate the best albanologist (about genetics) and some others about haplogroups in general, thank you.
And if you could, because as I discovered with time, internet is full of stupid propaganda, i would like to see even the linguistic links between albanian and epiric, and albanian and illyrian, meaning about s
the discoveries about illyrian and epirote, if there are detailed works about such things.
Thx to all for your time
 
Here is the crux of your problem. You seem be spending too much
time on pan slav forums (strange...). 95% of the fake facts you listed about albanian linguistics are just plain wrong and nothing more than propaganda. Your theories about j2 are flat out wrong. The albanian J2b that was found in croatia was high steppe, he wasnt a farmer.Stop doing the cetniks work for free if you dont know what it is your saying. All those theories that spread in pan slav forums about so called linguists are plain untrue. Cabej demonstrated long ago indigenous sea words and yet they still repeat this. All your theories were wrong and show a lack of background knowledge. Lurk more and catch up on the theories before spreading cetnik propaganda

Thank you for explaining something new I didn't know, about J2b, problem for me is that wikipedia about haplogroups is quite limited.
Then I would like to ask you, are there any news about albanian haplogroups, like new discoveries? regionally and not only, thank you.
 
What i would like to know from you even, cuz you are more expert than me, is: did firstly develop haplogroup R? or Indo-European culture?I would bet haplogroup, but i am not so sure of any of my beliefs.
 
Guys, than explain me this, i saw on the link gently provided by Ownstyler that Y-DNA doesn't concede with mt-DNA can you explain me the basics of these? sorry for boring you i am not an expert, anyways are you all genetists in here?
 
And still what conclusion have you got to about albanians, I'm curious, like what haplogroup carried albanian culture (supposed), or where they more than one originally?And all this stuff, i have read all the threads on this frum and i liked to see not only the level of interest about the topic but even the high intellectual level in here, i am very happy for that, but still didn't get to the most probable conclusion, some one says illyrian, with very good proofs to back it, others say epirote, i am quite confused.
 
+Jovialis, thank you, but what conclusion have you got to about albanian origins?
 
Guys, than explain me this, i saw on the link gently provided by Ownstyler that Y-DNA doesn't concede with mt-DNA can you explain me the basics of these? sorry for boring you i am not an expert, anyways are you all genetists in here?

Y-haplogroups are passed from father to son, without recombination with the mother's DNA. Only mutations can change that part of the DNA, so if two people have the same Y-haplogroup they come from a single male ancestor along the paternal line. On the other hand mt-DNA is passed from mother to child, so it goes through the female line, unchanged except for mutations. People with the same mtDNA have one female line ancestor in common, the mother of their mother's mother's mother's...... mother.

Y-DNA and mtDNA haplogroups aren't usually in pairs because for the most part men stayed with their tribes, while women relocated to their husband's tribe/territory. That is why Y-haplogroups are more reliable for understanding migrations of tribes or cultural groups (linguistic, religious, etc), rather than just individual movements due to marriage arrangements.

As for Albanian Y-Haplogroups, they aren't as diverse as you think. There's R1b and J2b2, who most likely brought the indo-european language that later developed into Albanian, and there's E-v13, which seems to have expanded into the Balkans earlier. These three account for more than 70%. Together with G2a, and J2a in Greece, they probably made up most of the ancient populations of Southeastern Europe, who also did not belong to single haplogroups but different combinations of the ones I mentioned.

You mentioned the Dacians: we don't know for sure yet, but it is likely that they had much more R1a and I2a than the more south western populations such as the Greeks and Albanians.
 
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