Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

In otherwords you just admitted your gripe with the project data has nothing to do with actual evidence but instead because "my haplogroup doesn't have representation among high level administration".

Nope, it's for the sake of balance.

Albanian DNA Project was originally and initially created by an E-V13 member. Any Albanian DNA Project not having an admin who belongs to the most frequent Y-DNA in the population is unnaceptable.
 
Literally none of the samples I have sponsored for the project have been relatives or duplicates. Would be an obvious waste of money.
I target a whole spread with tests I have sponsored, and only test one representative of a family and even avoid duplicates of surnames to avoid over inflating one result over another.
As far as I know this is pretty much followed throughout.
Again though, sponsors in private projects are going out of their own pockets and have a right to direct testing where they see fit.
Hawk just obviously made himself clear that it has nothing to do with actual data and everything to do with: 1. Why his haplogroup percentage is lower in the project than in studies, and ,
2. He doesn't accept any project that doesn't have a high level administrator who is E-V13.
Using this childish chain of thought, maybe Albanian projects need an admin for I2a-Din and R1a-M417?
Why not every other haplogroup while we're at it?

I made myself clear on obvious discrepancy and tendencies on reducing E-V13 on the favor of R1b-Z2103 and J2b2-L283. This is obvious reading the data. And it becomes obvious when the head of the project are non E-V13 right now.

I clearly stated that peer reviewed scientific papers, or at least academics should be in charge in such fields. But you obviously want to cherry-pick words for the sake of your agenda.

Isn't it you who complained about the other project constantly? I don't complain, i just point fingers on irregularities.
 
Nope, it's for the sake of balance.

Albanian DNA Project was originally and initially created by an E-V13 member. Albanian DNA Project not having an admin who belongs to the most frequent Y-DNA in the population is unnaceptable.

And who's fault is that?

That admin in the old project is Unikkatil. He's a rapper. He obviously let others conduct operations in the project. He was never active to begin with.

Should admins change their Y-Chromosome to please you now?

It's hysterical you can't see that this is obviously just a personal gripe of yours and has nothing to with project efforts and data.

I recall you among other former members in forum-alb and the old Foleja trash talking R1a Albanians and anyone else who wasn't the big 3.

Why should anyone take you seriously?
 
And who's fault is that?
That admin in the old project is Unikkatil. He's a rapper. He obviously let others conduct operations in the project. He was never active to begin with.
Should admins change their Y-Chromosome to please you now?
It's hysterical you can't see that this is obviously just a personal gripe of yours and has nothing to with project efforts and data.
I recall you among other former members in forum-alb and the old Foleja trash talking R1a Albanians and anyone else who wasn't the big 3.
Why should anyone take you seriously?

Unikkatil is not the person, kuqezi was.

And i was never part of forum-alb or Foleja. Never even visited them lol.

You are obviously trying to lie in order to disregard my objective criticism.
 
I made myself clear on obvious discrepancy and tendencies on reducing E-V13 on the favor of R1b-Z2103 and J2b2-L283. This is obvious reading the data. And it becomes obvious when the head of the project are non E-V13 right now.
I clearly stated that peer reviewed scientific papers, or at least academics should be in charge in such fields. But you obviously want to cherry-pick words for the sake of your agenda.
Isn't it you who complained about the other project constantly? I don't complain, i just point fingers on irregularities.

What agenda do I have? I am R1a genius. My haplogroup percentage isn't making a difference in either direction. Lol.

I mean the results on Rrenjet are public. No one is stopping you from doing the math yourself.
Again, you're saying E-V13 percentage is being manipulated. Where is your proof?

Ever consider that 1000+ samples compared to 100 from a small study will produce different percentages?

Complained? No, I called out Lek from the old project for being a tongue twisted liar as he made things personal in our disagreements and tried lying about saying he paid for kits which I PAID for personally.

Part of my complaints were also the projects complete disregard for clowns like Fustan who were playing dungeons and dragons with your holy haplogroups and insulting members who were not the Big 3 haplogroups.

So I stopped contributing a dime to that old project simply because a man child was admin and they didn't care what filth the rest were spewing against other Albanians. Even contributors.
 
Unikkatil is not the person, kuqezi was.

And i was never part of forum-alb or Foleja. Never even visited them lol.

You are obviously trying to lie in order to disregard my objective criticism.

Yea I'm lying. Lol. I guess it was another guy with the username Hawk who was E-V13. Lol
 
Yea I'm lying. Lol. I guess it was another guy with the username Hawk who was E-V13. Lol

Obviously you are lying, i never participated in those forums, and i was never in any fight against other Y-DNA, not my type of personality.

You are just pissed off because of my criticism and now you just want to make stuffs in the air.
 
Obviously you are lying, i never participated in those forums, and i was never in any fight against other Y-DNA, not my type of personality.

You are just pissed off because of my criticism and now you just want to make stuffs in the air.

Nope not lying. Sadly forum-al removed the whole dna section of the forum. Otherwise I would link you. This was back in 2017/2018. Same username, E-V13 and same soccer player avatar you had from Anthrogenica before you or I were banned. Unless someone was posing as you.

Either way. I have no agenda. Not sure it's possible with my haplogroup. You obviously do though. And no, I'm asking for proof if your criticism in the manipulation of E-V13 in the project. I could believe it for Gjenetika, I don't believe Rrenjet would do that though.

Again, those statistics are publicly available. You can do the math yourself. And show us while you're at it.

Either way, it's really childish to disregard the efforts of everyone contributing simply because you won't accept results from a project that doesn't have a "high level" E-V13 admin. Sounds silly, really.
 
Nope not lying. Sadly forum-al removed the whole dna section of the forum. Otherwise I would link you. This was back in 2017/2018. Same username, E-V13 and same soccer player avatar you had from Anthrogenica before you or I were banned. Unless someone was posing as you.
Either way. I have no agenda. Not sure it's possible with my haplogroup. You obviously do though. And no, I'm asking for proof if your criticism in the manipulation of E-V13 in the project. I could believe it for Gjenetika, I don't believe Rrenjet would do that though.
Again, those statistics are publicly available. You can do the math yourself. And show us while you're at it.
Either way, it's really childish to disregard the efforts of everyone contributing simply because you won't accept results from a project that doesn't have a "high level" E-V13 admin. Sounds silly, really.

You are just making stuff out of the air and selectively lying, so be specific, forum-al, it was a reply to a Gollobrdasi, and i never insulted any Y-DNA, i just pointed some facts. And yes, R1a in the Balkans mirror Slavic migration, facts are facts. The others were far more antagonistic toward him. And i never ever visited or was a member of foleja and knew the members you mentioned before.

And here is, doing you a favor instead: https://webcache.googleusercontent....ordase.38925/page-7+&cd=4&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de

So, i will be brutally honest with you, no. I don't accept those results and point. Especially knowing that you are part of it. It should be a fair and open project, and it should have a committee, and within that committee having E-V13 members is a must. To this point, everyone will agree.

Otherwise, you can have them, we live in a modern and free world, but you cannot pass them as ultimate truth and canonical reference.
 
You are just making stuff out of the air and selectively lying, so be specific, forum-al, it was a reply to a Gollobrdasi, and i never insulted any Y-DNA, i just pointed some facts. And yes, R1a in the Balkans mirror Slavic migration, facts are facts. The others were far more antagonistic toward him. And i never ever visited or was a member of foleja and knew the members you mentioned before.
So, i will be brutally honest with you, no. I don't accept those results and point. Especially knowing that you are part of it. It should be a fair and open project, and it should have a committee, and within that committee having E-V13 members is a must. To this point, everyone will agree. Balancing is the key for everything.

I'm not lying. And thank you for proving my point that you are lying. A post ago you said you have never been a member of/on that forum. Now you admit you were. Lol. How convenient. Others were going hard at him. And so were you. You kept calling him a Bulgarian. Telling him what his identity is as if he doesn't know his own self. You're a hypocrite.

I know where R1a comes from wise guy. Seems like you still can't wrap your head around I-Y3120 also being connected to Slavic migrations.

Apparently some early migration Slavs were found with E-V13 as well. Let that marinate my "Paleo-Balkan" brother.

Im not an admin so I can care less if you avoid any project that has anything to do with me. As If I have any decision making in the project. I literally sponsor kits I'm interested in testing. And that's it.

Everyone has an agenda and so do you.
 
I'm not lying. And thank you for proving my point that you are lying. A post ago you said you have never been a member of/on that forum. Now you admit you were. Lol. How convenient. Others were going hard at him. And so were you. You kept calling him a Bulgarian. Telling him what his identity is as if he doesn't know his own self. You're a hypocrite.
I know where R1a comes from wise guy. Seems like you still can't wrap your head around I-Y3120 also being connected to Slavic migrations.
Apparently some early migration Slavs were found with E-V13 as well. Let that marinate my "Paleo-Balkan" brother.
Im not an admin so I can care less if you avoid any project that has anything to do with me. As If I have any decision making in the project. I literally sponsor kits I'm interested in testing. And that's it.
Everyone has an agenda and so do you.

You are like a broken record, again and again.

Of course you are lying, you have personal issues. You said forum-alb/foleja as if they were related forums not specifically forum-al.com which discussion was extremely short and was a reaction to his provocations, and you sneakily tried to portray me as participating in some other feuds which i didn't and don't give a damn lol.

As for that guy, he is Bulgarian descended for sure, Gorani/Golobrdasi are known for being so in the general population.

Who are you to sponsor kits you are interested in and putting it into the general population statistics?
 
Ok, you have personal issues. You said forum-alb/foleja as if they were related forums not specifically forum-al.com which discussion was extremely short and was a reaction to his provocations, and you sneakily tried to portray me as participating in some other feuds which i didn't and don't give a damn lol.
As for that guy, he is Bulgarian descended for sure, Gorani/Golobrdasi are known for being so in the general population.
Who are you to sponsor kits you are interested in and putting it into the general population statistics?

He's Albanian. He identifies as Albanian, and will form a young cluster among Albanians, regardless of his most distant ancestry. He is autosomally clustering with Albanians as well.

You like every other a product of post-communist revisionism peddling the same bs.

They are Albanians, and the majority identify as such. It's not for you to decide what they are. Otherwise you Albanians from Macedonia are equally just Torbesh/Shka. So lay off the propaganda.

Who am I to do that?

Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot do with my money?

What authority do you have? Absolutely NONE.

I do with my money as I please.

Instead of whining about underrepresented/undersampled regions, I went ahead and gathered substantial money I WORKED FOR, and contributed it to the villages and regions I wanted tested.

Not only for the purpose of unraveling my fis, but for the purpose of representing Dibra and Western Macedonia as a whole, who have had practically no contribution outside of the Mountainous tribal regions or individual testers.

So, why don't you mind your business and don't tell me what I can and can't do with my money.

What I have sponsored has been included in population statistics because they are part of the population. Excluding data you don't like is just as bad if not worse than your claim of manipulating data and cherry picking to "deflate E-V13". Which you still have failed to provide any evidence for.
 
Most pointless discussion I have seen...
Why would anyone give a shet about lowering E-V13... And if they are trying they are doing a horrible job. What is this ape conversation?!
Gjenetika:
ZP9nMpf.png

Rrenjet:
sDcxPlU.png


I guess two projects that combined have 1300-1500 samples, and flame each other on most forums I have seen, are colluding to lower E-V13 numbers (how would they even be able to?). Meanwhile E-V13 is the most dominant Haplogroup. What a horrible job these "manipulators" must be doing (sarcasm)... :LOL:

Or is Hawk butthurt for who knows what? Does he want pure E-V13 Albanians and is mad that the % is not 100?

Pitiful.
 
Most pointless discussion I have seen...
Why would anyone give a shet about lowering E-V13... And if they are trying they are doing a horrible job. What is this ape conversation?!
Gjenetika:

Rrenjet:


I guess two projects that combined have 1300-1500 samples, and flame each other on most forums I have seen, are colluding to lower E-V13 numbers (how would they even be able to?). Meanwhile E-V13 is the most dominant Haplogroup. What a horrible job these "manipulators" must be doing (sarcasm)... :LOL:

Or is Hawk butthurt for who knows what? Does he want pure E-V13 Albanians and is mad that the % is not 100?

Pitiful.

Ah you sneaky little idiot, you like to de-focus the main point. I brought valid point and you were immediately triggered and going to completely other direction lol.
 
Ah you sneaky little idiot, you like to de-focus the main point. I brought valid point and you were immediately triggered and going to completely other direction lol.

:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Nice comeback! Nice points also. I am amazed (y).

Brother, take your pills...

Edit: Since I don't want to reply to him. This guy legit has no self awareness. Calls me sneaky little idiot, ad hominem, doesn't address any of my points, then when I suggest he takes his pills he gives such reply as seen below.

| 0 arguments, paranoiac tendencies, no clue what sample size means or how statistic works.
| Bruh... at least have the self awareness to realize how your reply applies to your own post beforehand, you're projecting hard.
v
 
Literally none of the samples I have sponsored for the project have been relatives or duplicates. Would be an obvious waste of money.
I target a whole spread with tests I have sponsored, and only test one representative of a family and even avoid duplicates of surnames to avoid over inflating one result over another.
As far as I know this is pretty much followed throughout.
Again though, sponsors in private projects are going out of their own pockets and have a right to direct testing where they see fit.
Hawk just obviously made himself clear that it has nothing to do with actual data and everything to do with: 1. Why his haplogroup percentage is lower in the project than in studies, and ,
2. He doesn't accept any project that doesn't have a high level administrator who is E-V13.
Using this childish chain of thought, maybe Albanian projects need an admin for I2a-Din and R1a-M417?
Why not every other haplogroup while we're at it?

Unfortunately such a way to get some results that is, their presentation is entering into anarchy. No one doubts to your or someone else good faith but every portal, private person, association, etc can have their own results and for this situation in Croatia we would say "we do not know here who drinks who pays".

That's my opinion. :)

The solution is to somehow encourage responsible officials in our countries to start doing large-scale genetic research on as many persons and as many markers as possible and with the rules of the profession. I think that we in Croatia do not have a couple of archaeogenetic data and all this shows that nothing is being done here but solution in my opinion should not be private research because there is always doubt.
 
Unfortunately such a way to get some results that is, their presentation is entering into anarchy. No one doubts to your or someone else good faith but every portal, private person, association, etc can have their own results and for this situation in Croatia we would say "we do not know here who drinks who pays".
That's my opinion. :)
The solution is to somehow encourage responsible officials in our countries to start doing large-scale genetic research on as many persons and as many markers as possible and with the rules of the profession. I think that we in Croatia do not have a couple of archaeogenetic data and all this shows that nothing is being done here but solution in my opinion should not be private research because there is always doubt.

You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree though. What you're proposing is on par with government level interference. Especially with DNA related research, thst is some hefty grounds for extreme corruption.

Such a large scale operation requires government funding. If you think governments are not prone to manipulation and even worse forms of corruption I don't know what to say.

What's needed is wealthy sponsors who can cover huge amounts of tests with no expectation of where they should be directed.

However, thinking that there's some grand agenda to over represent some regions above others is foolish.

Theres a long list of factors that go into this effort that people ignore. Some political, some personal.

It took a year or so to test only 8 samples for one specific region I had my eye on due to hesitancy and lack of trust among the people and even for political reasons. Whereas some villages or cities, gathering tests is less cumbersome. Some people don't trust DNA tests for whatever reason.

No one, especially the admins are getting a paycheck for all their efforts. Having to source collectors, and then having these collectors go out of their way on their free time to try and find people to agree to test is not easy. Especially in remote regions or places that have been abandoned.

Fund application is limited to those who can donate. Having one region over tested is better than having no funds to test anyone at all. They don't get to pick and choose what to do with a donors money unless said donor has no preference.

Often times they will even gather kits without a sponsor that sit around until someone pays for them. I have tried to help here too.

Ultimately, people who sponsor large amounts of kits are going to direct those contributions where they see fit. Unless they're super wealthy and can spread them out without preference.

Many people who have tested themselves can donate random kits to undersampled areas without a particular preference if they choose. They don't though.

So, people who have never participated in the project or arent going into their own wallet to do so, are in no position to say what should or shouldn't be done with this money.

If they are so concerned, they can gather funds for a couple samples a month instead of wasting it on bs like take out, and other senseless pleasures.

If they can't do this, they should at least refrain from complaining and trying to tell others what to do with their hard earned money.

Results are public any way. One can review project results and work out the math and see which areas need more samples and then donate towards that end if they really care.

Instead people will just complain and expect others to satisfy their desires for them. If the average project participate donated 1-2 kits a month towards this goal, that would be great.

If they can't or refuse to even when able, they don't get to tell others where their money should go.
 
Unfortunately such a way to get some results that is, their presentation is entering into anarchy. No one doubts to your or someone else good faith but every portal, private person, association, etc can have their own results and for this situation in Croatia we would say "we do not know here who drinks who pays".

That's my opinion. :)

The solution is to somehow encourage responsible officials in our countries to start doing large-scale genetic research on as many persons and as many markers as possible and with the rules of the profession. I think that we in Croatia do not have a couple of archaeogenetic data and all this shows that nothing is being done here but solution in my opinion should not be private research because there is always doubt.

Our university branches can do that, of course in co-operation with Universities from Western Europe and USA.
 
You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree though. What you're proposing is on par with government level interference. Especially with DNA related research, thst is some hefty grounds for extreme corruption.
Such a large scale operation requires government funding. If you think governments are not prone to manipulation and even worse forms of corruption I don't know what to say.
What's needed is wealthy sponsors who can cover huge amounts of tests with no expectation of where they should be directed. However, thinking that there's some grand agenda to over represent some regions above others is foolish.
Theres a long list of factors that go into this effort that people ignore. Some political, some personal.
It took a year or so to test one specific region I had my eye on due to hesitancy and lack of trust among the people and even for political reasons. Whereas some villages or cities, gathering tests is less cumbersome. Some people don't trust DNA tests for whatever reason.
No one, especially the admins are getting a paycheck for all their efforts. Having to source collectors, and then having these collectors go out of their way on their free time to try and find people to agree to test is not easy.
Funds are limited to those who can donate. Having one region over tested is better than having no funds to test anyone at all. They don't get to pick and choose. Often times they will even gather kits without a sponsor that sit around until someone pays for them. I have tried to help here too.
Ultimately, people who sponsor large amounts of kits are going to direct those contributions where they see fit. Unless they're super wealthy.
Many people who have tested themselves can donate random kits to undersampled areas without a particular preference if they choose. They don't though.
So, people who have never participated in the project or in going into their own wallet to do so, are in no position to say what should or shouldn't be done with this money.
If they are so concerned, they can gather funds for a couple samples a month instead of wasting it on bs like take out, and other senseless pleasures. If they can't do this, they should at least refrain from trying to tell others what to do with their money.
Results are public any way. One can review project results and work out the math and see which areas need more samples and then donate towards that end. Instead people will just complain and expect others to satisfy their desires.

I use raw data from Serbian portal Poreklo or Albanian portals etc. They are needed because they are more detailed. I also use public Y DNA bases and YFull. But I'm talking about statistics for some area or country. For that I think we should have peer-reviewed sources, although we may encounter problems in them as well.
 

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