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View Poll Results: Will Ukraine join EU?

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Thread: Will Ukraine join EU?

  1. #51
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    Finally they will, but it will take some patience and effort before this will happen. Corruption is the big problem in Ukraine and as long as that is not solved it will not be allowed to join the EU. The EU will not make the same mistake again like it did with other countries.

  2. #52
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    I think that is must,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    In this one sentence you have ignored wishes of most Ukrainians, about 20 million people, who wants to belong to EU. Can you be more, how should we say, fair and objective?
    I think a more natural Union for Slavic countries would have been a Slavic Union. They share the genes, the language, the culture. Slavic countries in EU is an odd occurrence.
    Ukraine is a European country as much as any other Slavic country is. But it will be unfair to Turks if Ukraine is admitted and Turkey is not. Accepting both of them it will be impossible for Europe. They both constitute 1/3 of today's Europe. There will be resistance in France, England and many other countries.
    Privileged partnership is the most possible scenario to facilitate both.
    That means Economically tied to Europe, politically independent. Without consent of Russia they will always have territorial problems which for Europe is a condition.
    Russia will sabotage it anywhere they could.
    Russia is a very influential country in EU. It matters economically and can not be ignored.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I think a more natural Union for Slavic countries would have been a Slavic Union. They share the genes, the language, the culture. Slavic countries in EU is an odd occurrence.
    Ukraine is a European country as much as any other Slavic country is.
    EU and other political unions are mostly about economy, economical help, cooperation and safety net. If it was about ethnical identity you would have seen unions based on it.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I think a more natural Union for Slavic countries would have been a Slavic Union.
    ........
    The Slavs used to have a Slavic Union. It was originally called the Russian Empire and, more recently, the Iron Curtain. But, for some unknown reason, Slavs outside Russia don't seem keen on repeating the experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    EU and other political unions are mostly about economy, economical help, cooperation and safety net. If it was about ethnical identity you would have seen unions based on it.
    I meant to provoke some reaction with the Slavic Union. Slavs are Europeans and as such the presence of Ukraine in it, is natural. But the outcome of a Ukrainian membership is not sure if the current situation continues for long.
    The expansion of the EU is no longer desired by some countries,
    But the privileged partnership is an option since it gives all the economic benefits of the union members minus political benefits.
    The move of western powers was designed to take Ukraine away from Russian Yoke. But Ukraine can not abandon Russia for good. There are a thousand reasons Russia is vital for Ukrainian prosperity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I meant to provoke some reaction with the Slavic Union. Slavs are Europeans and as such the presence of Ukraine in it, is natural. But the outcome of a Ukrainian membership is not sure if the current situation continues for long.
    The expansion of the EU is no longer desired by some countries,
    But the privileged partnership is an option since it gives all the economic benefits of the union members minus political benefits.
    The move of western powers was designed to take Ukraine away from Russian Yoke. But Ukraine can not abandon Russia for good. There are a thousand reasons Russia is vital for Ukrainian prosperity.
    Please again, don't disreguard wishes of most Ukrainians. They are the ones who decided to reach towards the west. Same as Poland, Czechs, Slovaks and other Slavs did before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    The Slavs used to have a Slavic Union. It was originally called the Russian Empire and, more recently, the Iron Curtain. But, for some unknown reason, Slavs outside Russia don't seem keen on repeating the experience.
    Excelent point. What Russians called "union" was actually their empire. After 100 years of Empire and another 100 years of Soviet "Union" other Slavs had enough.

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    Actually the western Ukrainians are the one who aspire the Union. As you may know Eastern Ukraine is a lot more Russian inclined. Its not only the Russians that inhabit this region. Its also the Ukrainians that speak Russian. My educated estimate is that 15 to 20 million Ukrainians are firmly for Russian union.
    Compared to Turkey Ukraine has a lot more advantages of getting in the union. The main advantage is the large numbers of Slavic countries currently members of the union that would campaign hard.
    But membership is not guarantied.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    The Slavs used to have a Slavic Union. It was originally called the Russian Empire and, more recently, the Iron Curtain. But, for some unknown reason, Slavs outside Russia don't seem keen on repeating the experience.
    It is only for the reason that CIA is doping them with just enough money for them to feel their position had improved. If they would manage to get the Russia down, CIA would stop funding, and then we would see just how better they really are.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    It is only for the reason that CIA is doping them with just enough money for them to feel their position had improved. If they would manage to get the Russia down, CIA would stop funding, and then we would see just how better they really are.
    no it has nothing to do with that,

    since you are from Serbia it has to do with politics like the Blent treaty, remember Tito/Dimitrov/Stalin case, etc etc.

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    The thread is obsolete because Ukraine is toast. After all the deeds by Kiev, the eastern part will never again be part of that failed state. Initially the rebels and Russia demanded federalization, hoping for a neutral status like Finland, but this opportunity is gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    The thread is obsolete because Ukraine is toast. After all the deeds by Kiev, the eastern part will never again be part of that failed state. Initially the rebels and Russia demanded federalization, hoping for a neutral status like Finland, but this opportunity is gone.
    Maybe I was too quick. In the press conference they said they will only accept independence, but now they said they just want autonomy. Probably Putin/Lavrov made pressure on them to keep Ukraine united. It is too early for statements. NATO will also meet this week.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    Maybe I was too quick. In the press conference they said they will only accept independence, but now they said they just want autonomy. Probably Putin/Lavrov made pressure on them to keep Ukraine united. It is too early for statements. NATO will also meet this week.
    Yes, I thought that you were too quick too. I looks like Putin will settle for autonomic districts and won't invade whole Ukraine or push for district's independance. I think, autonomy will mean joining Russia soon anyway. How hard it will be to organize referendum in autonomic districts to separate from Ukraine and join Russia?
    I also think, as I mentioned in another thread, that this calamity will turn a blessing for Ukraine. Although a bit smaller in size it will be more coherent ethnically and politically. Process of joining NATO and EU should go much smoother now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    EU and other political unions are mostly about economy, economical help, cooperation and safety net. If it was about ethnical identity you would have seen unions based on it.
    But few seem idealistic. Because there are limits to the spread of. Expanding to the South (Africa) and East (Asia) enters the world of different nations, cultures, values in relation to the current European. Larger the expansion (beyond geographical Europe) would result in a rapid disintegration. Therefore, in reality there are limits including ethnic and cultural, although many people don't like to talk about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I think a more natural Union for Slavic countries would have been a Slavic Union. They share the genes, the language, the culture. Slavic countries in EU is an odd occurrence.
    It is quite natural that the Slavic peoples related to each other (for example I like the Slovaks, Czechs, Poles and others, and have friends).

    And it is quite natural that the Slavic peoples are in the European Union, they are European nations.

    Anthem of Yugoslavia was not Serbian or Croatian or Slovenian but Slavic. The words of this hymn was written by S. Tomasik (Slovak) and the melody was composed by M. Dabrowskiego (Pole).

    Words, the first strophe and refrain (in English):

    Hey, Slavs, there still lives
    the spirit of our grandfathers
    While for the nations beats the heart
    of their sons!


    There lives, there lives the Slavic spirit,
    It will live for ages!
    In vain threatens the abyss of Hell
    In vain the fire of thunder!

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    If you replace the word Slavic by Germanic it sounds a bit dark and outdated to be honest. Slavic union wouldn't work as Yugoslavia didn't work, because the biggest one is the most hated one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan View Post
    If you replace the word Slavic by Germanic it sounds a bit dark and outdated to be honest. Slavic union wouldn't work as Yugoslavia didn't work, because the biggest one is the most hated one.
    both mean linguistic......you cannot tell genetics by languages
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    both mean linguistic......you cannot tell genetics by languages
    ok, for the antf*ckers (hairsplitters) ;): if you replace Slavs/Slavic by Germanic people/Germanic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan View Post
    If you replace the word Slavic by Germanic it sounds a bit dark and outdated to be honest. Slavic union wouldn't work as Yugoslavia didn't work, because the biggest one is the most hated one.
    Discussion of this page came from one interlocutor (#53) who thinks that Slavic people should be in "Slavic union", and that Slavs in EU are "odd occurrence".

    But Slavic people are European nations and it is natural to be in European union.

    European union is the home of European nations and all its citizens.

    The words Slavs and Slavic are not the best choice in English (similar in another Western European languages) because Slavic people call themselves "Sloveni" or "Slaveni" which comes from the word "Slovo" (letter), ie those who speak.

    Yugoslavia worked more decades and it was a prosperous country, problems resulting from the eighties when the country fell into economic crisis and communist and managerial elite did not have the courage to implement the necessary reforms, but it is long story and deserves special topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan View Post
    If you replace the word Slavic by Germanic it sounds a bit dark and outdated to be honest. Slavic union wouldn't work as Yugoslavia didn't work, because the biggest one is the most hated one.
    Yugoslavia worked very well, until foreign spies started supporting nationalism, separatism, irredentism and all other isms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Yugoslavia worked very well, until foreign spies started supporting nationalism, separatism, irredentism and all other isms.
    I guess you are only one who liked it and still cares for its flag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Yugoslavia worked very well, until foreign spies started supporting nationalism, separatism, irredentism and all other isms.
    Let me guess the Serbian nationalism was just a reaction of the "foreign" interference. Oh Boy, you should really wear a tin foil hat so that those western foreigners can't read your mind...


    What Garrick said sounds far more sensible than your version of events. The politicians failed first economically and than on the ethnic level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I guess you are only one who liked it and still cares for its flag.
    I guess it feels good to make for you to make fun of us, now that your country successfully destroyed my country.


    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan View Post
    Let me guess the Serbian nationalism was just a reaction of the "foreign" interference. Oh Boy, you should really wear a tin foil hat so that those western foreigners can't read your mind...

    What Garrick said sounds far more sensible than your version of events. The politicians failed first economically and than on the ethnic level.
    Which has nothing to do with the enormous amount of money, guns and men who were infiltrated in Yugoslavia since 1980 for that very purpose....
    I don't know do you deliberately omit these facts or you're just tr***ing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    I guess it feels good to make for you to make fun of us, now that your country successfully destroyed my country.




    Which has nothing to do with the enormous amount of money, guns and men who were infiltrated in Yugoslavia since 1980 for that very purpose....
    I don't know do you deliberately omit these facts or you're just tr***ing.
    No, I simply don't agree with you. 95% of what happened in former Yugoslavia was caused by internal problems. Yugoslavia was not a Panama or Vietnam.

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