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Thread: Who are the most aggressive Nation?

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    Who are the most aggressive Nation?



    Who are the most aggressive Nation?
    Which country has started the most number of wars?

    Do you think Europeans more agressive than other racial groups?

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    in one word: yes.

    the two WW started in europe.
    europeans have colonized and spread brutality through all the world.
    the crusades and the "holy wars".
    and then you have the united states of america (which is basically a product or europe after all) no need to talk about the wars started by this country.

    i know that europe have given many good thinks to the world too, of course.

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    Well these are two different questions: Which is the most aggressive nation and which is the most aggressive racial group?

    Are Europeans more aggressive than others? I would say no! They just had the better weapons! Or can anyone prove there haven't been any wars and massacres outside of Europe? In the end probably yes, but not because there haven't been any, but because they havn't been recorded to that degree due to unimportance for world change.
    If it comes to nations I would say yes! But only periodically and not for all history through. Sorry, but this reminds me very much of the question whether there is an "aggressive gene" some populations carry around among themselves.

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    WW3? When did it happen?

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    I think that aggressiveness and greed are basic flaws in all humans.

    I doubt very much that Europeans have created more wars in history than anyone else but because Europe was wealthier and more technologically advanced, with better weapons and better shipping they were able to travel further and fight on a larger scale.

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    Good points Antigone.
    Look at animal kingdom, there are wars everywhere you look. Resources are always limited, that's the problem for life on earth. Eat or be eaten.

    I think that aggressiveness and greed are basic flaws in all humans.
    Well, these were the useful traits when we were hunter gatherers. Very important when protecting your group, and hunting territory against other tribes.

    Now we want to create one group/happy global village, so these traits are becoming a nuisance. Educating youths help a lot, but it is a constant fight against nature, these traits are hardwired to the brain too.

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    I suppose aggression is a natural part of competitiveness.

    Can you be competitive without being aggressive?

    I think it's safe to say Europeans / North Americans have been the most competitive nations in the world be it war, economics, even sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Good points Antigone.
    Look at animal kingdom, there are wars everywhere you look. Resources are always limited, that's the problem for life on earth. Eat or be eaten.
    Well, these were the useful traits when we were hunter gatherers. Very important when protecting your group, and hunting territory against other tribes.Now we want to create one group/happy global village, so these traits are becoming a nuisance. Educating youths help a lot, but it is a constant fight against nature, these traits are hardwired to the brain too.
    Yes, I think so too LeBrok. And if, for some reason, the veneer of civilised society and christian charity (or whatever religious edicts) were taken away tomorrow, we'd be back to the survival of the fitest in no time at all. That instinct is always there, beneath the surface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arieta View Post
    United States? they always joining most of the wars, like WW2, WW3, irak invations, etc

    I would imagine that you have no idea of how much influence the isolationists in the US had, especially in WW1.(or how many there were)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    I would imagine that you have no idea of how much influence the isolationists in the US had, especially in WW1.(or how many there were)
    The US was reluctant to join WWII until up to Pearl Harbor, and interest in WWI was limited due to the isolationism that you mention. Yet, we do have a history of aggression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    The US was reluctant to join WWII until up to Pearl Harbor, and interest in WWI was limited due to the isolationism that you mention. Yet, we do have a history of aggression.

    Your first statement was correct.

    The second statement would be correct if we were compared to, say Switzerland, but not by itself.

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    Unless of course you intend to ignore completely any and all complicated factors that slowly drag a country into a conflict and simply deem all conflicts as examples of aggression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    Unless of course you intend to ignore completely any and all complicated factors that slowly drag a country into a conflict and simply deem all conflicts as examples of aggression.
    Of course not. I don't think the US is the correct answer to the question presented here. I think Spain has been more aggressive historically, for example. Switzerland is a rare European example of a particularly non-aggressive country; there are only a few other European countries that are like that, like Estonia. So there are plenty of countries that can be placed as more aggressive than the US, at least when you look at the history as a whole.

    Probably, a lot of the perception of the US as being uniquely aggressive comes from the fact that we have been at the forefront of a lot of recent major wars, including starting the Iraq War. But before that, the US was not going around starting wars, typically.

    However, it's an important qualifying point that the US does not have a clean slate... far from it. We've taken over lots of land from natives, we've started a little empire, and we've even invaded Canada. So, the US isn't uniquely passive, either.

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    I don't think it could be said that the USA or Britian and it's allies were the aggressors in either WWI or II, Britain was drawn into both wars because of treaties signed with other countries and the USA later joined in aid of the British Empire. They were forced into a defensive position from the beginning because of the aggression of others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Of course not. I don't think the US is the correct answer to the question presented here. I think Spain has been more aggressive historically, for example. Switzerland is a rare European example of a particularly non-aggressive country; there are only a few other European countries that are like that, like Estonia. So there are plenty of countries that can be placed as more aggressive than the US, at least when you look at the history as a whole.

    , either.

    I do try to frame my posts in light of the thread/questions. In the case of my first post it was clearly to answer the apparent use of involvement in the world wars to cite an example of aggression.

    I, like many of us here, like to think of myself as not only well steeped in the details of my country's history, but as a realist who is willing to see where it went wrong, just like we must do with our own lives.

    The main victim of the US would have had to be Mexico, although the entire story there is very complicated also.

    The 'invasion' of Canada, while very true, was hardly that in reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    I do try to frame my posts in light of the thread/questions. In the case of my first post it was clearly to answer the apparent use of involvement in the world wars to cite an example of aggression.
    Yeah... I think you have been responding like I was disagreeing with you more than I actually was. I was hoping to explore a different aspect of the question of whether or not the US is/was aggressive, not to refute you directly. I totally agree that the World Wars are bad examples regarding US aggression. If anything, they are good examples of German aggression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    The 'invasion' of Canada, while very true, was hardly that in reality.
    How would you go about describing its nuances? Sure, it was intended primarily for tactical reasons, but it was definitely an aggressive invasion, no?

    I'm not sure I can make up my mind with regard to the question, especially because it's so variable. I mean, I had brought up Spain earlier, but Spain has had periods of general non-aggression, including right now. Japan is another example of a country that has a huge disparity between its most aggressive and least aggressive periods (although their aggressive period serves as a good refutation to the idea that Europeans are uniquely aggressive). The British (esp. English) are an intriguing possibility, but it's hard to forget that they weren't really the aggressors in the World Wars, as Antigone mentions.

    How about the Goths? Is that too far back?

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    If we did the opposite question, what is the most peaceful nation or people?, certainly found ourselves the answer therefore to the question proposed here is also a response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Yeah... I think you have been responding like I was disagreeing with you more than I actually was. I was hoping to explore a different aspect of the question of whether or not the US is/was aggressive, not to refute you directly. I totally agree that the World Wars are bad examples regarding US aggression. If anything, they are good examples of German aggression.



    How would you go about describing its nuances? Sure, it was intended primarily for tactical reasons, but it was definitely an aggressive invasion, no?

    I'm not sure I can make up my mind with regard to the question, especially because it's so variable. I mean, I had brought up Spain earlier, but Spain has had periods of general non-aggression, including right now. Japan is another example of a country that has a huge disparity between its most aggressive and least aggressive periods (although their aggressive period serves as a good refutation to the idea that Europeans are uniquely aggressive). The British (esp. English) are an intriguing possibility, but it's hard to forget that they weren't really the aggressors in the World Wars, as Antigone mentions.

    How about the Goths? Is that too far back?
    I probably did jump to conclusions. For that I apologize.
    I was sort of on guard since out brief flurry the other week when I questioned the self-identity of another. In that case, I had been long aware that the person's political tastes were far removed from that of the people about whom he was professing kinship of blood and lifestyle.
    Much to my chagrin, I wound up explaining a position that really was between that member and me.
    I would ask that, prior to responding to such posts that are clearly in response to another, give the whole picture a minute before responding to mine.

    About our invasion(s) of the Great White North, I would think it better to avoid the details as we could debate those until the cows come home.
    I would prefer to remark that the most well known one, during the war of 1812, was more of a failed invasion than a real one. It was on the strategic side rather than the tactical one since they were confident that the Canadians would join in with them against the British. Military expeditions that are quickly repulsed are normally referred to 'abortive invasions' or something similar in history books. That event was an epic failure and it was over fairly quickly. It's kind of like calling every Germanic incursion into the Roman Empire, no matter how quickly it was sent back across the Rhine, an invasion.

    Otherwise, I think that you have been a fine contributor here.
    Last edited by Regulus; 07-04-11 at 04:53. Reason: changed huge to epic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    I probably did jump to conclusions. For that I apologize.
    I was sort of on guard since out brief flurry the other week when I questioned the self-identity of another. In that case, I had been long aware that the person's political tastes were far removed from that of the people about whom he was professing kinship of blood and lifestyle.
    Much to my chagrin, I wound up explaining a position that really was between that member and me.
    I would ask that, prior to responding to such posts that are clearly in response to another, give the whole picture a minute before responding to mine.
    Don't think I really want to get into this at the moment, but I still find that I disagree with you on some of that. Maybe this should be taken to PMs if you're interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    About our invasion(s) of the Great White North, I would think it better to avoid the details as we could debate those until the cows come home.
    I would prefer to remark that the most well known one, during the war of 1812, was more of a failed invasion than a real one. It was on the strategic side rather than the tactical one since they were confident that the Canadians would join in with them against the British. Military expeditions that are quickly repulsed are normally referred to 'abortive invasions' or something similar in history books. That event was an epic failure and it was over fairly quickly. It's kind of like calling every Germanic incursion into the Roman Empire, no matter how quickly it was sent back across the Rhine, an invasion.
    That's true, although failed invasions still must be considered acts of aggression. The nuance that Americans thought Canadians would join them against the British is a more important one IMHO than the fact that they failed. That applies in general... Germanic tribes were aggressive, even when they were failures. In fact, Germanic tribes are probably one of the most aggressive peoples ever; even their religion was war-centric. I don't think that carried over significantly enough to the HRE years to warrant Germans being the answer to the question, though, and Germans nowadays are certainly not the most aggressive people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    Otherwise, I think that you have been a fine contributor here.
    Thanks. I've enjoyed reading your posts since when I was a lurker a little while before I joined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlitos View Post
    If we did the opposite question, what is the most peaceful nation or people?, certainly found ourselves the answer therefore to the question proposed here is also a response.
    I think we're going to have to pick, nation or people? Because rarely to peaceful people form nations. The Quakers, for example, are peaceful people, but they long ago found out that petitioning the English government wasn't going to cut it.

    As for nations, we've mentioned Switzerland and Estonia, for Switzerland's neutrality and Estonia's peaceful revolution. Any other ideas, perhaps outside of Europe?

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    The OP does specify nations and not people, but maybe it should be made clear whether we are discussing all history or only the modern era? If we go back far enough most countries have had an aggressive past but are relatively peaceful in the modern era.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post

    That's true, although failed invasions still must be considered acts of aggression. The nuance that Americans thought Canadians would join them against the British is a more important one IMHO than the fact that they failed. That applies in general... Germanic tribes were aggressive, even when they were failures. In fact, Germanic tribes are probably one of the most aggressive peoples ever; even their religion was war-centric. I don't think that carried over significantly enough to the HRE years to warrant Germans being the answer to the question, though, and Germans nowadays are certainly not the most aggressive people.



    .
    The semantic discussion about the invasion flowed from my remark that the invasion itself was hardly that, meaning that it hardly warranted the term invasion. (especially since it was an obvious failure) It was clearly not intended to mean that the event was not an act of aggression.

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    At one time Japan was the most aggressive (1930s and WWII). More recently, the United States has been the major aggressor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria Red View Post
    At one time Japan was the most aggressive (1930s and WWII). More recently, the United States has been the major aggressor.
    Sounds reasonable. I think it would be useful to break this question down by time period. Then, we can have answers like "Goths" for the 6th century, "Mongols" for the 13th century, "Spanish" for the 16th century, etc.

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    Mexico was the main VICTIM of Spain not the USA. Today there are an estimated 12 million mostly Mexican illegal aliens in the USA, and the USA did not "truck them in", they have have come on their very own.

    Spain's agression against the indigenious people of the Americas lasted for over 300 years, where all the gold and silver was taken to Spain, and millions of indigenious people died .

    Name one instance when the USA has acted in agression to another country and done what Spain did to Mexico and Latin America? What Gold, land , and silver have we "hauled away" from any country?


    Melusine

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