George W. Bush a great man?

[barbarian]

they are coming back. US will be the new neighbor of EU.

there should be a new discussion "should US joın EU?" ) and close the the topic "is EU a superpower?"

 

[LeBrok]

Would any of you disagree that the events in Iraq have helped provoke the instability that has spilled over into full out revolution? While it main not be the main cause of the revolutions it surley has been a catalyst in creating unrest.

I'm still sticking to my summary as in post #5.

 

[silkyslovanbojkovsky]

With potential democratic revolution sweeping across the arab world is Gerorge W. Bush to thank?

Would any of this have been possible without the war in Iraq and the fall of Sadam Hussain?

I haven't seen any modern day politician yet, that I would say is a great man. all the American politicians are really just businessmen. I think as history goes on he will be less hated, than he was during the end of his presidency. I do think that America has played a huge role in these revolutions, I wouldn't just say Bush. I think the Obama administration has played an even huger role in the recent revolutions. Is this a good thing? No I don't think so. There is only more confusion in the middle east than there was before, and more reason for radical terrorist to gain popularity in their countries and become even more dangerous. I seriously doubt these countries will become democratic from these revolutions. The U.S and some western European nations are only over there for business purposes. Take Libya for instance, Gadhafi was an ally to the U.S for like 40 years. Why did all of the sudden we care after 40 years that he was a totalitarian dictator who was causing destruction to his people, when he hadn't changed from anything he was doing earlier, and that genocides and oppressive regimes have existed and happened before yet the u.s did nothing about it? Because all the sudden guys like Gadhafi wanted to change business plans. Same with Mubarak. Same whats happening in Syria. The U.S is controlled by companies and corporations. They are the ones messing in peoples business around the world causing numerous deaths to regular people for their own interests. George Bush has played a role in this, but he is just one in many in the U.S, and Obama is no different. They U.S government is just a pawn of coorporations, and these companies are extremely evil and greedy. I think Bush, Obama and the U.S government as a whole are not great but the opposite, selfish bastards who care nothing about their people or other nations peoples. They only care about their own interests. Im an American so Im not against the people or the nation as a whole, but these companies need to be put under check in the U.S

 

[silkyslovanbojkovsky]

Bush is a first class lunatic.

I don't believe in an honest government in the USA.
Companies govern that country for already 60 years.

And I don't believe the unrest in the Arab world is spontaneous.
I guess the CIA and other agents are involved.

People around the Mediterranean are usually very friendly people.
Too kind to start a revolution, because there is a revolution in another country.
It's all staged and cooked!

You are completely right, except I would not lump all people from the Mediterranean together. Ive met a lot of arabs and they can be very friendly, but they are very volatile. Ive also talked to a lot of U.S military men, who were over they and they told me, that you could go to dinner with a bunch of arabs, and they would laugh and smile and be friendly with you, and then try to kill you the same night. I feel that very much when Im with arabs.

 

[silkyslovanbojkovsky]

they are coming back. US will be the new neighbor of EU.

there should be a new discussion "should US joın EU?" ) and close the the topic "is EU a superpower?"

Yes, I agree with you. Biden was already over in Europe talking about this. They will join up to stay on top of the world economy, to keep china in check.

 

[LeBrok]

It was actually French and English who attack Gadafi first. And nobody attacked Mubarak, but his own countrymen.

They only care about their own interests. Im an American so Im not against the people or the nation as a whole, but these companies need to be put under check in the U.S

What would happen if all the companies left US?

Funny thing is that you choose to live in US and not in poor Slovakia, which is not controlled by big business.

 

[silkyslovanbojkovsky]

FYI I don't live in the U.S and French and English are allies of U.S they do nothing with out American support, and agreement. I never said companies should leave U.S. They should be put under check. Don't be so defensive,as I said in my quote Im proud to be an American, I have ancestors that have been in the U.S since before the revolution, but these companies don't give a crap about you and me or America, or the world for that matter. They need to be put under check. How can we have a sovereign government, when our nation is in debt to the federal reserve, which is a private bank. They were even discussing a couple of years ago in congress weather the U.S military should be privatized. Thank God that didn't happen. These companies want as much power as they can get, and Im not going to defend them or act like its not a problem in the U.S

 

[Tomenable]

Totally. The US was in support of the Taliban until 1996 or so because they were thought to be good at preventing communism from spreading into the region, and didn't consider bin Laden a threat until 1998. Oops. Not the first time, nor the last, that US foreign policy has backfired.

Nice documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OI8Y0jjM0k

 

[Piro Ilir]

FYI I don't live in the U.S and French and English are allies of U.S they do nothing with out American support, and agreement. I never said companies should leave U.S. They should be put under check. Don't be so defensive,as I said in my quote Im proud to be an American, I have ancestors that have been in the U.S since before the revolution, but these companies don't give a crap about you and me or America, or the world for that matter. They need to be put under check. How can we have a sovereign government, when our nation is in debt to the federal reserve, which is a private bank. They were even discussing a couple of years ago in congress weather the U.S military should be privatized. Thank God that didn't happen. These companies want as much power as they can get, and Im not going to defend them or act like its not a problem in the U.S

It's really sad when an American complains for his own country.

 

[Piro Ilir]

With potential democratic revolution sweeping across the arab world is Gerorge W. Bush to thank?

Would any of this have been possible without the war in Iraq and the fall of Sadam Hussain?

It's too difficult making a point on that. But definitely the Iraq war was something good. A dictator less is always a good and nice thing

 

[Piro Ilir]

I really wanted to believe that current ant-regime revolts are caused by political movements. It would be great and uplifting, but these are my personal feelings a freedom fighter.

History is teaching us that usually it is not the case. To get nation to stand up against autocrats surrounded by police and army, takes something more prosaic like hunger, pain, and anger. Democracy and freedoms are nice, but there is no popular revolution and sacrificing one’s life for it, at least for overwhelming majority of folks.

What all these Middle Eastern countries had in common is a big population spurt of last decades. In Egypt in last 30 years population doubled from 40 to 80 million. 70% of demographics is under age of 35. Situation is the same all over the region. You have millions upon millions of young people with nothing to do. Give them any reason to fight and you have an army. The ubiquitous TV and Internet did the trick too, showing them how young people live in first world and what they’re missing.
Granted, there was an economic progress in Middle East and Saharan Africa and lives got somewhat better during last economic boom. The problem was that population growth outpaced economy and creation of new work places. It’s really not good if 50% of young people are unemployed. All of this was brewing for years waiting for a moment to show its ugly face.
The only real question is "why now?"
I think the starting point was recent rise in food prices. In many of these countries governments subsidize many basic articles, like bread and gasoline. The current recession made holes in budgets of every country, Middle East and Africa wasn't immune. Governments lacking founds had to cut on what they subsidized or had to raise prices for these items, plus generally food became more expensive around the world. And here we go:

- army of unemployed young people
- expensive food, hungry families
- knowlage what they missing to first world, TV, Internet
- tribal and religious prosecutions and discriminations
- political forces trying to take over the power
- lack of freedoms ….................................and democracy
- someone said “It’s time, let’s go…”


If it comes to Bush, I think he was a romantic with lack of common sense. He’s vision included democracy for Middle East, but we are yet to see one fully working democracy there. Till then we are not even sure if any of these countries can manage running democratic system with all the political foundations, infrastructure, institutions, and overall will improve lives of their citizens with it.
I wish them well, but I have to see to believe.

Agree. But don't forget, that democracy is a long process. USA needed 230 year to build her own democracy. They had already a civil war. One day we will have a western democracy in middle east, but not yet. Democracy needs time. Unfortunately democracy and freedom need also many deaths and innocent blood. It's a harmful process. But there is hope. Tunisia is having already the democracy. Passing the time well will see more and more territories joining the democracy. [emoji4] . We should believe and being united

[emoji562]

 

[Goga]

George W. Bush is a great man!

 

[bicicleur 2]

George H.W. Bush was a smart man.
His son George H. Bush was the most stupid president in U.S. history.

Arab spring doesn't work.
It ends in religious and tribal wars.
Europe was as stupid as George H. Bush.
Neither Europe nor America has learned anything yet.

 

[LABERIA]

Both, father and son were great presidents. But my favorit is President Regan.

 

[LeBrok]

Both, father and son were great presidents. But my favorit is President Regan.

Reagan is my favorite too.

 

[LeBrok]

Agree. But don't forget, that democracy is a long process. USA needed 230 year to build her own democracy. They had already a civil war. One day we will have a western democracy in middle east, but not yet. Democracy needs time. Unfortunately democracy and freedom need also many deaths and innocent blood. It's a harmful process. But there is hope. Tunisia is having already the democracy. Passing the time well will see more and more territories joining the democracy. [emoji4] . We should believe and being united

[emoji562]

I totally agree. Creation of democracy in Europe is still unfinished in few countries. This process started 200 years ago in France, got fully embraced 100 years ago by collapse of old empires of Europe and it still continues till today. It was seriously interrupted by Fascism and Communism for decades. It is surprising that anyone would expect fully democratic Meddle East right away after dictators were removed.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Reagan is my favorite too.

that's something we agree on

 

[bicicleur 2]

I totally agree. Creation of democracy in Europe is still unfinished in few countries. This process started 200 years ago in France, got fully embraced 100 years ago by collapse of old empires of Europe and it still continues till today. It was seriously interrupted by Fascism and Communism for decades. It is surprising that anyone would expect fully democratic Meddle East right away after dictators were removed.

if US wouldn't have send troops to Europe during WW II , fascism and communism would still be there
so what about ISIS ?
if islamic fundamentalism isn't defeated and destroyed to the bottom no chance of democracy, for the moment we need strong dictators for stability in the Middle East

 

[LABERIA]

if US wouldn't have send troops to Europe during WW II , fascism and communism would still be there so what about ISIS ? if islamic fundamentalism isn't defeated and destroyed to the bottom no chance of democracy, for the moment we need strong dictators for stability in the Middle East

I don't think that a couple of strong dictators is the solution for the situation. You forget something very important, after a revolution there is always a fase of transition. Also the road from dictature to democracy is not short.

 

[Piro Ilir]

George H.W. Bush was a smart man.
His son George H. Bush was the most stupid president in U.S. history.

Arab spring doesn't work.
It ends in religious and tribal wars.
Europe was as stupid as George H. Bush.
Neither Europe nor America has learned anything yet.

No, Arab spring work. Freedom works either. Democracy is a long process. Do we have in Latin America a pure democracy? Not yes. USA is 240 years old. It's nonsense to think that the democracy would be built for three years in these Arab countries.