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Thread: Illyria

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    cremations and in urns, so,!!!.......... many races did this including the Romans, cremate, place in urn, cover with shroud, ( pre Roman empire, this was the normal practice in the times of the Roman Republic)
    Maybe it was aboriginal people who first cremated 20000 years ago... search for the Mungo Lady , that started it all
    You haven't ever stumbled upon any archaeological literature, have you? Never mind that, pray tell me how does the Mungo Lady correlate to anything we're discussing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post

    the Paeoninas where a thracian people and their border is basically identical to modern slavic-macedonia
    The Thracian character of Paeonians is questioned by the fact that they had a distinct culture. Moreover, the ancient sources at our disposal are abundantly clear that Paeonians were not Thracians; their language is linked intimately with that of Mysians (close to Illyrian). The British archeologist, N.G.L. Hammond thought Paones to be the successors of the Iron-Age Illyrians, for they were scattered in most of modern Macedonia as far as Strymon. The tribe of Maedes (Spartacus is thought to have been from that tribe) are credited to be Illyrians in terms of archeology.

    The dardanians where also thracian people ( some say a trojan tribe ) and move from the dardanalles to present day kosovo in 400BC
    The Thracian being of Dardani is nowhere suggested, at least in ancient testimonies. They were reckoned undoubtedly as one of many Illyrian tribes. In archeological point of view, the excavators throughout Kosova have yielded a culture similar to that of other Illyrians. The thorough linguistic studies revealed the very fact that Illyrian names prevails numerically in the Dardania, while Thracian ones are centered chiefly in the eastern corners of Dardania. R. Katicic, a noteworthy Croatian linguist ranked Dardania as an Illyrian onomastic region. Needless to say, in Dardania are found in so far some distinct names (neither Illyrian nor Thracian) which are not found elsewhere. The connection of the Dardani with the Troy laid upon archeological & mythological arguments. According to the opinion of most scholars, Dardani poured in the direction of Asia Minor somewhere at XII century B.C if not even earlier. It's true that Dardani for most of antic period were in constant interference with adjacent Thracian tribes, but this doesn't mean that they were Thracian, does it?

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zajaz View Post
    The Thracian character of Paeonians is questioned by the fact that they had a distinct culture. Moreover, the ancient sources at our disposal are abundantly clear that Paeonians were not Thracians; their language is linked intimately with that of Mysians (close to Illyrian). The British archeologist, N.G.L. Hammond thought Paones to be the successors of the Iron-Age Illyrians, for they were scattered in most of modern Macedonia as far as Strymon. The tribe of Maedes (Spartacus is thought to have been from that tribe) are credited to be Illyrians in terms of archeology.



    The Thracian being of Dardani is nowhere suggested, at least in ancient testimonies. They were reckoned undoubtedly as one of many Illyrian tribes. In archeological point of view, the excavators throughout Kosova have yielded a culture similar to that of other Illyrians. The thorough linguistic studies revealed the very fact that Illyrian names prevails numerically in the Dardania, while Thracian ones are centered chiefly in the eastern corners of Dardania. R. Katicic, a noteworthy Croatian linguist ranked Dardania as an Illyrian onomastic region. Needless to say, in Dardania are found in so far some distinct names (neither Illyrian nor Thracian) which are not found elsewhere. The connection of the Dardani with the Troy laid upon archeological & mythological arguments. According to the opinion of most scholars, Dardani poured in the direction of Asia Minor somewhere at XII century B.C if not even earlier. It's true that Dardani for most of antic period were in constant interference with adjacent Thracian tribes, but this doesn't mean that they were Thracian, does it?
    well Dardani are considered as Illyro-Thracian, not pure Illyrian, not pure Thracian,
    the case of Troy is suggested by many, but we know troy was a naval people, like etruscans, and not inland like thracians,
    the myth gives that Dardanos left Thebes to troy
    and not Dardania to Troy, neither from Troy to Dardania, but from troy to Etruria
    but makes clear that Chaon was from troy, Chaonia is area so far and so near at southwest of Dardania,
    Chaonians are considered Pelasgian, non IE pop that were assimilated by Illyrians and Greeks (especially makedonians)
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    I tend to believe that Montenegro/Northern Albania was the urheimat of the Illyrians.

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    Can please someone explain me why Pelasgians ¨Greek forefathers¨ fought against greeks in the war of Troy beeing the allies of Trojans,Thracians & Dardanians?Didn t all the greeks unite in this war? Why Pelasgians were not in greek s side??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alban View Post
    Can please someone explain me why Pelasgians ¨Greek forefathers¨ fought against greeks in the war of Troy beeing the allies of Trojans,Thracians & Dardanians?Didn t all the greeks unite in this war? Why Pelasgians were not in greek s side??
    I don'tn know if it could help but a majority of scholars (according to B.SERGENT) seam considering DARDANI as branch of I-E Anatolians, maybe Louwitians, and pushed by Phrygians/Brygians and Thracians into Anatolia (as was been Hittites) for some of them and into Greece for some others of them (Pelasgians) - So Dardani in Illyrians lands could be a "lost tribe" incorporated in the lllyrian territory - it seams to someones that Dardani was the founders of Troia 1 and so it would not be astonishing if Pelasgians from same stock fought against Greeks in the war of Greece against Troia (even if that occurred long time after the founder of Troia 1 ?) I MAID apparently A MISTAKE IN ANOTHER POST ON ANOTHER THREAD when associating Dalmatia and old Illyria (and Y-I2a1b) - what could be said is that the roman Illyricum is by far too large to describe genuine Illyria - for linguists the illyrian language concerning phonetics should be close to thracian-dacian (çatem) and messapian? AND also to albanian - they insist for a complete difference from ancient venetian languages (closer to italic) -

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alban View Post
    Can please someone explain me why Pelasgians ¨Greek forefathers¨ fought against greeks in the war of Troy beeing the allies of Trojans,Thracians & Dardanians?Didn t all the greeks unite in this war? Why Pelasgians were not in greek s side??
    At the time of Troyan war nationalities had nothing to do with today meaning,

    with the term Pelasgian we describe a non IE culture but that does not mean a country-nation or a state as today,
    to understand better try to get in sociaety and political of 'Peloponesian wars' by thoukidides and then you realize better,

    well the start of the war it was not Helen the charming woman but the Milletus wars (millawata) as described in Hettit archaiology scrolls,
    it seems like Pelasgians when Hettits enter minor Asia start piracy and Myceneans and Minyans start to resist,

    the term Greek is not correct for Troyan war, neither the term Pelasgian,
    it was Myceneans and its allies with Troyans and its allies
    although by today we recogn that Myceneans were IE and proto Greeks,

    now about Greeks the terminology is exonyme, given by Italians and as endonyme is tribal name or a class name of Priests of Dodona and their cities near Kyme -Cyme
    Greek unification movement or identification started at 900-800 BC by unifing Pelasgians with IE
    Starting point is consider the death of Kodros king of Athens,
    allthough the correct word is Hellenes instead of Greeks either by Pelasgian El-La (sun-stones, Holy stones)
    either by IE Ell-eron (Eel river people, cheli-nioi -> Hellenes)

    the psychology of the Troyan war is not like modern wars.


    Personally i consider Troyans as Hatians not Pelasgians
    I mean the family name is Hatians and sub-tribes are
    Troyans
    Pelasgians
    Etruscans
    Lycaonians
    etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I don'tn know if it could help but a majority of scholars (according to B.SERGENT) seam considering DARDANI as branch of I-E Anatolians, maybe Louwitians, and pushed by Phrygians/Brygians and Thracians into Anatolia (as was been Hittites) for some of them and into Greece for some others of them (Pelasgians) - So Dardani in Illyrians lands could be a "lost tribe" incorporated in the lllyrian territory - it seams to someones that Dardani was the founders of Troia 1 and so it would not be astonishing if Pelasgians from same stock fought against Greeks in the war of Greece against Troia (even if that occurred long time after the founder of Troia 1 ?) I MAID apparently A MISTAKE IN ANOTHER POST ON ANOTHER THREAD when associating Dalmatia and old Illyria (and Y-I2a1b) - what could be said is that the roman Illyricum is by far too large to describe genuine Illyria - for linguists the illyrian language concerning phonetics should be close to thracian-dacian (çatem) and messapian? AND also to albanian - they insist for a complete difference from ancient venetian languages (closer to italic) -
    the Dardanians of troy and of the balkans are not related
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanians_%28Trojan%29

    I actually think that the Dalmatians are the only true Illyrians, history says the southern illyrian border was the netreva river, then about 400BC they ( illyrians) marched south and where stopped at the drin river by the macedonians of Phillip II and alexander the great. The border was fixed, the macedonians reached the adriatic and then went south to conquer greece and later the persians.
    There was no more major illyrian/macedonian wars, the illyrians did not participate in the invasion of persia by the macedonians.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    the Dardanians of troy and of the balkans are not related
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanians_(Trojan)

    I actually think that the Dalmatians are the only true Illyrians, history says the southern illyrian border was the netreva river, then about 400BC they ( illyrians) marched south and where stopped at the drin river by the macedonians of Phillip II and alexander the great. The border was fixed, the macedonians reached the adriatic and then went south to conquer greece and later the persians.
    There was no more major illyrian/macedonian wars, the illyrians did not participate in the invasion of persia by the macedonians.

    Interesting that we always had a saying: "push the Serbs back over the Drin river!" LOL

    BTW, Dalmatians are pure Croats, because from regions of Dalmatia and Herzegovina, Croat name and rule spread northwards into Panonia, eventually calling it Panonian Croatia.


    Most of the Croat "ruler cities"(where rulers resided) are here, it was after succumbing to Turks, and Venetians, after being attack from practically all sides, name was changed back to Roman Dalmatia, while Croatian name remained up north where political union with Hungary happen, losing the "Panonian" in the name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmat View Post
    Interesting that we always had a saying: "push the Serbs back over the Drin river!" LOL

    BTW, Dalmatians are pure Croats, because from regions of Dalmatia and Herzegovina, Croat name and rule spread northwards into Panonia, eventually calling it Panonian Croatia.


    Most of the Croat "ruler cities"(where rulers resided) are here, it was after succumbing to Turks, and Venetians, after being attack from practically all sides, name was changed back to Roman Dalmatia, while Croatian name remained up north where political union with Hungary happen, losing the "Panonian" in the name.
    I highly doubt that anything in the Balkans in pure, so i doubt Dalmatians are pure Croatians, now or even more in the medieval times.

    If the Croatians nation was first created in the Dalmatia region it most likely means that the ruling class on that region was Croat/Slavic nothing more nothing less and if Croats gave up so easily on it, it means that they most likely had another "homeland" where to yield back and/or that Dalmatia was a newly conquered or settled land that was of none or little "sentimental" value for the Croats of that time period...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endri View Post
    I highly doubt that anything in the Balkans in pure, so i doubt Dalmatians are pure Croatians, now or even more in the medieval times.

    If the Croatians nation was first created in the Dalmatia region it most likely means that the ruling class on that region was Croat/Slavic nothing more nothing less and if Croats gave up so easily on it, it means that they most likely had another "homeland" where to yield back and/or that Dalmatia was a newly conquered or settled land that was of none or little "sentimental" value for the Croats of that time period...

    LOL, you forgot to take your daily meds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmat View Post
    LOL, you forgot to take your daily meds?
    Yea, thanks for reminding me...where would i be without you?

    I owe you my life, literally...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmat View Post
    LOL, you forgot to take your daily meds?
    Tone down your posts. Attacking members of Eupedia or their nationality is strictly forbidden.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endri View Post
    I highly doubt that anything in the Balkans in pure, so i doubt Dalmatians are pure Croatians, now or even more in the medieval times.

    If the Croatians nation was first created in the Dalmatia region it most likely means that the ruling class on that region was Croat/Slavic nothing more nothing less and if Croats gave up so easily on it, it means that they most likely had another "homeland" where to yield back and/or that Dalmatia was a newly conquered or settled land that was of none or little "sentimental" value for the Croats of that time period...

    So being there as Croatia for 600-700 has no sentimental value, as well as most of our early independent history, structures and artifacts?
    Trol somebody else, name was change for political reasons, to separate us from the rest, and its not like we could chose.

    History is much more complex, because prior to Otoman invasion there was turmoil in country, where our nobles and lords fought each other and separated as we lost the King, so we became separated.

    Divided and conquered unfortunately

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    well Dardani are considered as Illyro-Thracian, not pure Illyrian, not pure Thracian,
    the case of Troy is suggested by many, but we know troy was a naval people, like etruscans, and not inland like thracians,
    the myth gives that Dardanos left Thebes to troy
    and not Dardania to Troy, neither from Troy to Dardania, but from troy to Etruria
    but makes clear that Chaon was from troy, Chaonia is area so far and so near at southwest of Dardania,
    Chaonians are considered Pelasgian, non IE pop that were assimilated by Illyrians and Greeks (especially makedonians)
    Without any personal judgement I recall the position of B. SERGENT (based himself on compilations of other scholars,) that Dardanii could be of Louwite origin, of the same cultural stock of I-E Hittites and other "anatolian" I-Eans, and that, pushed on their back by other I-Eans (Thracians and Co) on Western Black Sea shores they passed in Anatolia, founding Troia 1 for a part of them when an other part of them went into Greece where they were known under the name of Pelasgians (other tribes with them under the same collective name: I don't know).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alban View Post
    Can please someone explain me why Pelasgians ¨Greek forefathers¨ fought against greeks in the war of Troy beeing the allies of Trojans,Thracians & Dardanians?Didn t all the greeks unite in this war? Why Pelasgians were not in greek s side??
    There were no "Greeks" fighting against the Trojans, no more than there were "Trojans" fighting against the "Greeks". Some tribes, faught against some other tribes. Simple as that. There was not really a 'Greek' side. Rather an Achaean side, which is a generic term for Myceneans. We call them Greek from a retrospective point of view. Being that they were Greek speakers.

    The name Pelasgian was given by the proto-Greeks to the indigenous people of their world, but that says little about their 'ethnicity'.

    As for the Paeonians, the modern inhabitants which share the same habitat as the Paeonians, the Macedonian Slavs, cluster closest to Bulgarians. They however absorbed a lot of Thracians, but no Dardanians. It's hard to tell though to what extent the Macedonian Slavs share common decent with indigenous peoples from antiquity. Many Slavs who settled that region could already have absorbed Thracians during their migration routes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    the Dardanians of troy and of the balkans are not related
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanians_(Trojan)

    I actually think that the Dalmatians are the only true Illyrians, history says the southern illyrian border was the netreva river, then about 400BC they ( illyrians) marched south and where stopped at the drin river by the macedonians of Phillip II and alexander the great. The border was fixed, the macedonians reached the adriatic and then went south to conquer greece and later the persians.
    There was no more major illyrian/macedonian wars, the illyrians did not participate in the invasion of persia by the macedonians.

    I beg your pardon because I affirmed that SERGENT considered Dardanians of Trojad as linguistically close to Louwites... He was not so affirmative and said the question was very unclear: cultural influence (material) of Louwites, but not sure for the language - he seams considering them as members of a language group (satem) that gave birth to related illyrian, dacian-moesian, thracian and later albanian language: Dardanians supposed by him & others as came down from Morava valley and situated between Thraces and Illyrians in South Balkans, north of Greece for the bulk of them, only a part passed to western Anatolia where they became diluted...so, if not specifically Illyrians, people akin to them -
    He think Albanians came from East, from a stock close to this linguistical block, and that they found the seaside lands (Adriatic sea) of present day Albania occuped by an early tribe of Slavs (I'm not competent to judge) -
    according to him, the two Dardanians peoples should be of the same origin (I have no opinion for now)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post

    I beg your pardon because I affirmed that SERGENT considered Dardanians of Trojad as linguistically close to Louwites... He was not so affirmative and said the question was very unclear: cultural influence (material) of Louwites, but not sure for the language - he seams considering them as members of a language group (satem) that gave birth to related illyrian, dacian-moesian, thracian and later albanian language: Dardanians supposed by him & others as came down from Morava valley and situated between Thraces and Illyrians in South Balkans, north of Greece for the bulk of them, only a part passed to western Anatolia where they became diluted...so, if not specifically Illyrians, people akin to them -
    He think Albanians came from East, from a stock close to this linguistical block, and that they found the seaside lands (Adriatic sea) of present day Albania occuped by an early tribe of Slavs (I'm not competent to judge) -
    according to him, the two Dardanians peoples should be of the same origin (I have no opinion for now)
    in regards to dardanians, let consider this
    1- If dardanians in kosovo are same as dardanians in anatolia and some scholars say that these dardanians where illyrians, then that says illyrians where in anatolia ............i disagree with this

    2- If dardanians in kosovo are same as dardanians in anatolia and some scholars say that these dardanians where thracians, then these thracians where in anatolia ............i agree with this

    3- If dardanians in kosovo are same as dardanians in anatolia and that these dardanians where epirotes, then where these epirotes in anatolia ?............i disagree with this

    4 - where dardanians something else

    5 - where these 2 dardanians people not related.

    In regards Albanians, the lands where initially owned by epirote and hellenic people as far as the drin river. The macedonians of Philip II conquered them ( actually a forced annexation by marriage) .
    Did the albanians come in with these macedonians is a question to be asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    in regards to dardanians, let consider this
    1- If dardanians in kosovo are same as dardanians in anatolia and some scholars say that these dardanians where illyrians, then that says illyrians where in anatolia ............i disagree with this

    2- If dardanians in kosovo are same as dardanians in anatolia and some scholars say that these dardanians where thracians, then these thracians where in anatolia ............i agree with this

    3- If dardanians in kosovo are same as dardanians in anatolia and that these dardanians where epirotes, then where these epirotes in anatolia ?............i disagree with this

    4 - where dardanians something else

    5 - where these 2 dardanians people not related.

    In regards Albanians, the lands where initially owned by epirote and hellenic people as far as the drin river. The macedonians of Philip II conquered them ( actually a forced annexation by marriage) .
    Did the albanians come in with these macedonians is a question to be asked.

    There's no doubt,during the Bronze Age collapse, the Lower Danube tribes moved into Mycenian Greece and Anatolia.
    Danubian pottery has been discovered in those areas, at the destruction level.
    Not to mention that Thracian,Greek,Phrygian and Armenian share a certain number of similarities,although separated by Centum-Satem division.
    Wheather the invasions were the cause or the consequence of social,political instability in the Eastern Mediterranean basin it's less significant.
    This event had a major impact in forming certain ethnic groups.
    There were two migration paths:following western Black Sea coast line and the Morava,Vardar valleys to Thessaly.


    Moving to speculations :

    Moesi, Thracian tribe from so called Daco-Moesian group
    Mysians,Anatolian tribe
    Muski, the name used by the Assyrians to describe Phrygians.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brnjica_culture


    http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0...410656073S.pdf


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushki

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    There's no doubt,during the Bronze Age collapse, the Lower Danube tribes moved into Mycenian Greece and Anatolia.
    Danubian pottery has been discovered in those areas, at the destruction level.
    Not to mention that Thracian,Greek,Phrygian and Armenian share a certain number of similarities,although separated by Centum-Satem division.
    Wheather the invasions were the cause or the consequence of social,political instability in the Eastern Mediterranean basin it's less significant.
    This event had a major impact in forming certain ethnic groups.
    There were two migration paths:following western Black Sea coast line and the Morava,Vardar valleys to Thessaly.


    Moving to speculations :

    Moesi, Thracian tribe from so called Daco-Moesian group
    Mysians,Anatolian tribe
    Muski, the name used by the Assyrians to describe Phrygians.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brnjica_culture


    http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0...410656073S.pdf


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushki
    Sorry, with all respect I believe the oposite,
    I personally believe that kurgan and cucuteni are from minor Asia, who enter Danube and black sea,
    perhaps you are following the Kurgan hypothesis but even kurgan admits that myceneans were from minor Asia,
    the problem is Thracians who according Kurgan Greco-aryan Anatolian-farmers and armenian Hypothesis is either minor Asian IE either North Hunters IE.

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    Yetos,I'm talking about Dorians,not Myceneans.
    "1200 BC" was a big moment:Central European tribes of Tumulus culture from the West,and "Cimmerians" of Srubna culture from the East put a lot of pressure on Lower Danube tribes,some of them migrating south.
    So these events triggered a chain reaction: this can be seen in all the movements from the"Bronze Age Collapse".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_collapse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Yetos,I'm talking about Dorians,not Myceneans.
    "1200 BC" was a big moment:Central European tribes of Tumulus culture from the West,and "Cimmerians" of Srubna culture from the East put a lot of pressure on Lower Danube tribes,some of them migrating south.
    So these events triggered a chain reaction: this can be seen in all the movements from the"Bronze Age Collapse".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_collapse

    well that is the case, the majority of scientist and people believe that Dorians were Northrn people but history and archaiology proves that were Greeks, Dorians are connected with Thessaly and Makedonia and are considered the sons of Τημενος, their primary land was Trikke (modern Τρικαλα)

    wiki link

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temenus


    Dorian devastation or else the return of the Temenides is the final prevail of Greeks against Pelasgians, and a restoration of rulling class

    dorian language as survived in isolated areas is a 'rough' sound Greek dialect which follows the rythm of ancient poetry with iambic meters (7/12/15)

    example is the Ξ which is Z (x->z), Σ that pronounced as E (s-.e)

    half of Dorian dialect changes exist also in Epirotans
    the myth of North invasion to Greece at the iron era and copper era is after Kurgan hypothesis, which in area around Greece is a total failure,
    and Anatolian Hypothesis seems stronger, which above Danube is a failure.

    Dorians from Danube is a must to Kurgan hypothesis, but as you see never happened,
    fact we have the opposite
    the only Northern migration-Devastation if happened to Greece (except Slavic) is the R1a of the area known that was Dorian capital but genetically it happened 5500 BC
    personally I believe that Thracians also 'invade' but as workers peasants marriages etc a slowly mix and assimilation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    well that is the case, the majority of scientist and people believe that Dorians were Northrn people but history and archaiology proves that were Greeks, Dorians are connected with Thessaly and Makedonia and are considered the sons of Τημενος, their primary land was Trikke (modern Τρικαλα)

    wiki link

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temenus


    Dorian devastation or else the return of the Temenides is the final prevail of Greeks against Pelasgians, and a restoration of rulling class

    dorian language as survived in isolated areas is a 'rough' sound Greek dialect which follows the rythm of ancient poetry with iambic meters (7/12/15)

    example is the Ξ which is Z (x->z), Σ that pronounced as E (s-.e)

    half of Dorian dialect changes exist also in Epirotans
    the myth of North invasion to Greece at the iron era and copper era is after Kurgan hypothesis, which in area around Greece is a total failure,
    and Anatolian Hypothesis seems stronger, which above Danube is a failure.

    Dorians from Danube is a must to Kurgan hypothesis, but as you see never happened,
    fact we have the opposite
    the only Northern migration-Devastation if happened to Greece (except Slavic) is the R1a of the area known that was Dorian capital but genetically it happened 5500 BC
    personally I believe that Thracians also 'invade' but as workers peasants marriages etc a slowly mix and assimilation
    whatever the linguistic appartenance, the anthropological metrical surveys showed at the Dorians times a change in the phenotypical distributions in Greece (notably more brachycephalics of two sorts, 'alpine' & 'dinaric')- so a movement because pressure selection or interne evolution don't go so quickly - it is possible that the part of the new human stock came either from the North Epirus or a little farther North (today Macedonia) - just a point -

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    Είναι η πρώτη φορά που κοινοποιώ διαλογό μου σε αυτό το τόπικ και παρακαλώ πολύ τους Έλληνες φίλους όπως με βοηθήσουν. Δηλώνω κατηγορηματικά ότι θα χρησιμοποιώ μόνον την ελληνική μητρική μου γλώσσα ενώ μπορεί να χρησιμοποιήσω και την αρβανίτικη διάλεκτο που την έχω μάθει αρκετά καλά απο την γιαγιά μου πρός αποφυγή εριστικών αλβανικών προκλήσεων. Παρακαλώ πολύ τους Έλληνες φίλους εάν δεν τους είναι δύσκολο να κάνουν αγγλική μετάφραση στα κειμενά μου. Με Αλβανό δεν πρόκειται ποτέ να έρθω σε διάλογο δι ότι απαξιώ έναν πεινασμένο που ονειρεύεται καρβέλια, αναφέρω ότι είναι γνωστοί οι κύκλοι τους και αν έισαι εκπαιδευμένος με δαύτους τους εντοπίζεις γιατί παρουσιάζουν και λένε τα ίδια. Εν τούτις λοιπόν θέλω να δώσω μια απάντηση στον γελοίο που παρέθεσε εικόνες απο το λεξικό του γεωγράφου Στεφάνου Βυζαντίου που χαρακτηρίζει ηπειρωτικές περιοχές οσάν "υλλιρικές". Την εποχή του Στεφάνου Βυζαντίου η Ήπειρος είχε μετονομαστεί σε ανατολικό Υλλιρικό ενώ ολόκληρη η Ελλάδα σε Μακεδονία. Τα αρχαία χρόνια η βαλκανική χερσόνησος ονομαζόταν χερσόνησος Αίμου η Θρακική η Υλλιρική. Κατά τον Χάμοντ η αρχαία Ελλάς αποτελούταν απο το Αιγαίο και τη Μακεδονία (εννοούσε κι την ήπειρο μαζί) Πολλές φορές απο την εποχή της ρωμαικής αυτοκρατορίας και έπειτα αλλάζανε τα σύνορα στίς επαρχίες στην κατεχόμενη αρχαία Ελλάδα. Ένα παράδειγμα να φέρω στο οτι η Θράκη (περιοχή του αρχαίου βασιλείου των Οδρυσών) στο 10ο μ.Χ αιώνα οι Βυζαντινοί το είχαν μετονομάσει σε μακεδονικό θέμα. Ακόμη χειρότερα για τους Αλβανούς (τους αναφερει καυκάσιους) είναι και οι αναφορές απο τον περιηγητή του 19ου αιώνα Φραγκίσκου Πουκεβίλ που τις περιοχές της Πελαγονίας μέχρι την Κορυτσά της αναφέρει σαν Μακεδονική Υλλιρία. Ζητώ συγνώμη που δε παραθέτω πλήρως τις πηγές μου αλλά σύντομα θα αρ΄χοισω να το κάνω. Χτυπάτε τους όπου τους βρίσκετε. Το δυνατότερο χτυπημα να το δίνετε εκεί που πονάνε λεγοντάς τους οτρι γραφλη στρη χώρα τους δεν υπήρχε οπότε τα πάντα που εικάζουν είναι υποθετικά. Σας χαιρε΄τω όλους φίλους-φίλες Έλληνες - Ελληνίδες και υπόσχομαι πλήρης διαφάνεια.

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    H σημαντικότερη υπόθεση είναι η μελέτη της περιοχής της Πελαγονίας και πιο συγκεκριμένα για το αρχαίο μακεδονικό βασίλειο των Λυγκιστιδών όπου ο ηγεμονικός οίκος τους κρατo;yσε απο την Κόρινθο και ήταν Βακχιάδες. Οι Λύγκιστες βρίσκονταν μεταξύ Δασσαριτών Μολοσσών και Μακεδόνων νότια της Πελαγονίας, σημερίνη Φλώρινα μέχρι νότια της Κορυτσάς. Θα ήθελα να ποστάρω άπειρους χάρτες της ρωμαικής αυτοκρατορίας δεν μου επιτρέπεται όμως ακόμη. Το σιγουρότερο απ όλα είναι οτι η Ήπειρος δεν έιχε κάμμια σχέση με την Υλλιρία και αυτό το ξεκαθαρίζει ο Στράβωνας. Το φυσικό όριο των δυο χωρών ήταν ο ποταμός Γενούσος ή η Εγνατία όδος (VIA EGNATIA) στα ρωμαικά χρόνια.

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