Illyria

do you think that the messapian inscription i posted days before here, could have affinity with modern albanian?
yes, of course.

But there is no any complete explanation.

I have found words such as "fertile land" which "ara" both in albanian and messapian, even the gramatic is simmilar.
 
Also Read Caplan (kaplan) a greta Albanogist,
He is the shame of world. You cannot cite such idiots in the sciense forum.
 
murdered Guma,,
I strongly condemn the action. Who made this deserves to stay in jail and to pay for what has done. Unfortunately the life can not come back.
The police arrested immediately some persons and justice must do the duty.
I do not know the causes of such things, but I can assure you that all Albanians have condemned this act.
The life of person is inestimable in comparison with the tales of mythology, history and opinions. The science and all the data must be in use to improve the life. I respect the life and all the human beings and I don't want to see anyone suffering.
The life comes from the nature and must be taken only by the nature.
 
there are even some strange connections between sardinia and ancient illyria (albania),
in the ancient vocabulary of pre-roman sardianian populations:
sardo:eni ‘albero del tasso’= albanese enjë ‘albero del tasso’
sardo:alase ‘agrifoglio, pungitopo, gramigna’ (in sardo: laruspinosu ’alloro spinoso’) =albanese halë ‘spina’ halëz ‘spina’
sardo: lothiu ‘fangoso’, topp: Lotzorai, Lothorgo, Loceri, Lotzeri = albanese lloç ‘fanghiglia’
sardo: dròb(b)alu ‘intestino dei suini’ = albanese drobolì ‘intestino’
sardo: urtzula ‘clematide’, top. Urtzulei = albanese hurdh ‘edera’
could it be an I haplogroup connection???
>:) Hai letto qualcosa da Alberto G. Areddu?
Ci sono degli articoli qui: http://web.tiscali.it/sardoillirica/sardoillirica/ARCHIVIO%20ILLIRICO.htm
Grazie!
Ciao
 
I strongly condemn the action. Who made this deserves to stay in jail and to pay for what has done. Unfortunately the life can not come back.
The police arrested immediately some persons and justice must do the duty.
I do not know the causes of such things, but I can assure you that all Albanians have condemned this act.
The life of person is inestimable in comparison with the tales of mythology, history and opinions. The science and all the data must be in use to improve the life. I respect the life and all the human beings and I don't want to see anyone suffering.
The life comes from the nature and must be taken only by the nature.

I agree with you, and Albanian state shown a serius respospibility and act,
Nazi's are all over the world,
they have a state under official state everywhere,
simply due to late Balkans wars in Aimos Peninsula became stronger,
but it is different to defend a nation in Arquememnts
Different in a war situation
and Different in Peace and progress time
today in Greece live 600 000 legal and 300 000 illegal Albanian citizens,
with modern economical crisis, unemployment reach 70% in Gr makedonia and 20% in Athens, probably troubles will break
a raise of Greek Nazi from 0,2 to 5 % in Athens in last elections is not a good sign for me,
every day 350 person enter illegal Greece,
mainly from Iraq and Pakistan,
that raises Unemployment to height, criminality boost,
I m not a prophet but soon we will see same in Greece, unless slave-market stops

probably you have heard about Greek crisis,
 
Now about Greek Language

Greek language is not that Mystery,

is a mix language of Thracian and Pelasgic with elements from Egypt and Roman-Latin, and lost Hettit luwan elements very few.

Ancient Greek Language and forms are destroyed enough,
but mostly is a form of ancient Greek, you can search and find that in many Greek dialects except Armani and Arbanitika (Albano-Illyrian)
in fact Aeolic only in Mountain in Thessaly and southg Epirus, in older people, achaic is dead, Doric remains in Grico and Tsakonika and mainly Ionic survived,
After 1955 the con/polis Thraco-Greek idiom and dialect is being teach as the most simple and easy Greek dialect,
Forms Like Pontic Greek and Tsakonica who are more ancient than Koine are not Teached, only in school at late lvls of education and many considered it as a stupid lesson, and prefer to learn English or Francais,
I also Believe that Greek language is destroyed but not dead, Mort.
 
y-dna haplogroups are not exclusive to any popoulation so you can have original Slavs and original Illyrians, Thracians even Greeks with y-dna I2a, as it arose thousands of years before any nationality was born. What you can say is that I2a2 is restricted to Eastern Europeans and especially the Balkans so ancient Illyrians should have a lot of it, but they should have even more E-V13 and a lot of J2,R1b too. All modern nations near the area of Illyria (primalry Bosnia,Monte Negro,Croatia,Albania and secondly Greece and North Italy) have some Illyrian ancestry in them and it's not easy to prove who is who here after all. For example Greek Macedonians have 15% I2a2 which could be :
1. Pelasgian Greek ( pre-historic balkanic)
2. Thracian
3. Illyrian
4. Slavic
5. Albanian
But who knows really? I'll say it again haplogroups do not prove ancestry...
 
Dian,could Albanian,Greek and Armenian dinarics be connected via Phrygians and haplogroup R1b1b2-L23? Because in your Tree the first three branches are these populations (allthough I'm not sure if Albanian has retained more archaic features, in fact it is a satem language like Armenian while Greek and Phrygian are centum and older attested) and haplogroup R1b is the onlyone that connects these three peoples.
 
y-dna haplogroups are not exclusive to any popoulation so you can have original Slavs and original Illyrians, Thracians even Greeks with y-dna I2a, as it arose thousands of years before any nationality was born. What you can say is that I2a2 is restricted to Eastern Europeans and especially the Balkans so ancient Illyrians should have a lot of it, but they should have even more E-V13 and a lot of J2,R1b too. All modern nations near the area of Illyria (primalry Bosnia,Monte Negro,Croatia,Albania and secondly Greece and North Italy) have some Illyrian ancestry in them and it's not easy to prove who is who here after all. For example Greek Macedonians have 15% I2a2 which could be :
1. Pelasgian Greek ( pre-historic balkanic)
2. Thracian
3. Illyrian
4. Slavic
5. Albanian
But who knows really? I'll say it again haplogroups do not prove ancestry...
 
y-dna haplogroups are not exclusive to any popoulation so you can have original Slavs and original Illyrians, Thracians even Greeks with y-dna I2a, as it arose thousands of years before any nationality was born. What you can say is that I2a2 is restricted to Eastern Europeans and especially the Balkans so ancient Illyrians should have a lot of it, but they should have even more E-V13 and a lot of J2,R1b too. All modern nations near the area of Illyria (primalry Bosnia,Monte Negro,Croatia,Albania and secondly Greece and North Italy) have some Illyrian ancestry in them and it's not easy to prove who is who here after all. For example Greek Macedonians have 15% I2a2 which could be :
1. Pelasgian Greek ( pre-historic balkanic)
2. Thracian
3. Illyrian
4. Slavic
5. Albanian
But who knows really? I'll say it again haplogroups do not prove ancestry...


well lets see
Y-Dna has no language, that is truth,
But Y-Dna can help us find areas and movements of people,

if a myth, a report, an archaological evidence exists and can be connected time-line with that devastation, then you have your self a fact,

for example
Pelasgic people,
from the linguistic elements we find that they spoke a Middle East language,
pelasgic culrure is also found in City Of Avaris, and In Syria and Palaistine,
word simmilarity and archaiological evidence show Levant and Italy connection,

Now in that area I2a2 is very low and J" is Enough and ancient,
in Crete in areas were not mentioned as IE invaded we have also High J2,
the remarkable existance of J2 in both areas,
The remarkable small existance of I2 in one area
points that Pelasgic were mainly J Y-DNA dominant and not I2a2 .

By understanding that slowly you find or prove more,
As an example i Give that,
PAiones -Paeoni are mentioned as Thracians, Paeoni lived north of Gr Makedonia and around area of Serres,
according Myth Agrios and Endymion in Area of Agrinio was the Father of Paeon who later moved to Paeoni area,
we see Agrinio (Agrios) has high I YDNA population (almost dominant)
we see Serres has high I YDNA population,
now if secondary marks are connected then the myth is true,
and connects Agrinio with Serres,
Meaning that in Agrinio were Thracians, which for me Thracians unite with Pelasgic and create Greek culture, altough later devastasion happened, traces have been left,


As an example, In USA today have many Ydna, in some areas European Ydna are dominant today,
Does that mean that Indians were Europeans?
No way,
But by mutations and comparisons we find tribal Dominant and ancient Dna,

as an example of Pelasgic I send you to Gennesis in Bible,
'οι υιοι Ιαυαν κατωκησαν τας νησους τας εν Θαρσεις'
were it says Ionic people devastate to the islands in middle of Thracian
(Gennetic maps proves the above J2 in Aegean islands surounded By I2)
so Pelasgic were J2 and Thracian were I2,

now Illyros son of Cadmos, brother of Phoinix -(phoenician)
since cadmus was brother of Phoinix means Pelasgic the other Branch of J people
in Illyria (Albania) we found an Ancient J2b which is simmilar with Greek-Pelasgic,
and Pelasgic words,
the above connection of myth, historical, linguistic, and gennetic tell us that in Albania there is a pelasgic population
as an example I give the word
Erebos Gr Pelasgic
Erevet Alb Pelasgic
Erebu ancient phoenician and semetic


Besides it is another area Illyrii proprie Dicti and another area Illyricum
Croatia Bosna etc


about slavic people 'How yes no' has a qood post about their dominant Ydna,
altough I have my arquments in slavic language,

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26341
 
as an example of Pelasgic I send you to Gennesis in Bible,
were it says Ionic people devastate to the islands in middle of Thracian
(Gennetic maps proves the above J2 in Aegean islands surounded By I2)
so Pelasgic were J2 and Thracian were I2,
How the Bible knos about pelasgian peoples?

It is because philistine tribe (proto-albanian from Balkans), invade izrael, and make them slaves and gave them some pelasgian elements of culture.
 
and just in case for misunderstandings

Ionia Greece is in Minor Asia
Ionic culture is there,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionia

Ionian islands and Ionian Pelago is another area

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionian_Sea


it is another area Ionia and Ionic
than Ionion and Ionian

Ionic people are named after Iayan -Yavan-Yunan son of Japeth
Ionian sea by Io (Ιω-ους) Ι think.
 
from Wikipedia

Genetic studies on Albanians

Various genetic studies have been done on the European population, some of them including current Albanian population, Albanian-speaking populations outside Albania, and the Balkan region as a whole.
One of the first studies was that of Belledi et al. (2000) which suggested that the Albanians share the same ancestry as most other European peoples. A recent study verifies this.
Looking at more recent studies specifically about Y chromosomal lineages, several of the most common lineages in the Balkans vary considerably between the Albanian region and other neighbouring regions[citation needed]. The two haplogroups most strongly associated with Albanian people (E-V13 and J2b) are often considered to have arrived in Europe from the Near East with the Neolithic revolution or late Mesolithic, early in the Holocene epoch. From here in the Balkans, it is thought, they spread to the rest of Europe.
Y haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) in the modern Balkan population is dominated by its sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13. Most E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere descend from a common ancestor who lived in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic, possibly in the Balkans. The current distribution of this lineage might be the result of several demographic expansions from the Balkans, such as that associated with the Neolithic revolution, the Balkan Bronze Age, and more recently, during the Roman era during the so-called "rise of Illyrican soldiery".
Y haplogroup J in the modern Balkans is mainly represented by the sub-clade J2b (also known as J-M12 or J-M102 for example). Like E-V13, this clade is spread throughout Europe with a seeming centre and origin near Albania.
Common in the Balkans but not specifically associated with Albania and the Albanian language are I-M423 and R1a-M17:
Y haplogroup I is only found in Europe, and may have been there since before the LGM. Several of its sub-clades are found in significant amounts in the Balkans. The specific I sub-clade which has attracted most discussion in Balkan studies currently referred to as I2a2, defined by SNP M423. This clade has higher frequencies to the north of the Albanophone area, in Dalmatia and Bosnia.
Haplogroup R1a is common in Central and Eastern Europe (and is also common in Central Asia and the Indian subcontinent). In the Balkans, it is strongly associated with Slavic areas.
The other most common Y haplogroup in the Balkans has strong associations with many parts of Europe:
Haplogroup R1b is common all over Europe but especially common on the western Atlantic coast of Europe, and is also found in the Middle East and some parts of Africa. In Europe including the Balkans, it tends to be less common in Slavic speaking areas, where R1a is often the most common haplogroup. It shows similar frequencies among Albanians and Greeks at around 20% of the male population, but is much less common in Serbia and Bosnia.
Another study of old Balkan populations and their genetic affinities with current European populations was done in 2004, based on mitochondrial DNA on the skeletal remains of some old Thracian populations from SE of Romania, dating from the Bronze and Iron Age. This study was during excavations of some human fossil bones of 20 individuals dating about 3200–4100 years, from the Bronze Age, belonging to some cultures such as Tei, Monteoru and Noua were found in graves from some necropoles SE of Romania, namely in Zimnicea, Smeeni, Candesti, Cioinagi-Balintesti, Gradistea-Coslogeni and Sultana-Malu Rosu; and the human fossil bones and teeth of 27 individuals from the early Iron Age, dating from the 10th to 7th century B.C. from the Hallstatt Era (the Babadag Culture), were found extremely SE of Romania near the Black Sea coast, in some settlements from Dobrogea, namely: Jurilovca, Satu Nou, Babadag, Niculitel and Enisala-Palanca. After comparing this material with the present-day European population, the authors concluded:
Computing the frequency of common point mutations of the present-day European population with the Thracian population has resulted that the Italian (7.9 %), the Albanian (6.3 %) and the Greek (5.8 %) have shown a bias of closer genetic kinship with the Thracian individuals than the Romanian and Bulgarian individuals (only 4.2%).
 
the high frequency of E-V13 and J2b2 in Albania is propably a founder effect and Albanians are a typical Balkan population. Why should Sqiptars be connected with Illyrians is something I can't understand. They have some Illyrian ancestry just like every other Balkanic population, but it's lower than in Bosnia or Croatia. The linguistic evidence are scarce and definetly not conclusive so there is no way of identifying Albanians with Illyrians or Pelasgians. I believe that they are closer to ancient Dacians/Thracians than anything else (after all they speak a satem language while Illyrian was centum and close to Celtic). Even their looks resemble some modern Romanians.
 
so they aren't illyrians?
i belive many of them resemble greeks, i see many mediterranean phenotypes on albanians here in italy.
do you think greeks and albanians look similar?
 
I believe the myth and the foundaments,

as I said in Another post,

Ancient illyrians from Illyrii proprie Dicti are sons of Illyros who was son of Kadmos.
Illyricum people, today Bosna Croatia Dalmatia have no connection with ancient Greek name area Illyria but with Roman Illyricum,

Albani from albocense who Maximus of moesia found them first, is the other part,

story of ancient Illyrians who I believe were Pelasgic + Celtic ends with Messapic language at roman times,

story of Arbanites starts at 900 about in Byzantine Army,
specialy in central Balkans Byzantine army would not have Greeks but locals,
at Maniakis story were we first find the word Arbanites (not Illyrians) we know that they were in Maniakis Army in siciky,
Maniakis used many nationalities even Normands arabs etc
that army later when in Con/polis were trouble with Arberuti army leader (Cappadokian Army) Maniakis revolt and gother Arberoi in Arbanon and march to polis,
at Thessaliniki won a Battle but Died,
his Army went back to Arbanon with hope to return to sicily, but they manage to go to Apulia and mainly stayed there, at Arbanon area
the army that remain Create a clash of warriors whic make kings the Progon Family,
Later Normands use them as also Serbs against Epirus,
at 4 Crusade about 1200 latin Rulers like Attica Duke call these warriors to create an army and defense,
until 1200 they have the name Arber and Arbanites,
Arbanites had their own language, Due to Army were each part must learns commanders language, that language with ancient Illyrian and Messapic people who lived there is the proto Form of modern Albanian
after that we find the word Albani, the state of Alba is created by House of Anju,
Anju were famous Catholic Cumans that Hunt the Normands in France (Main) Italy (sicily -taranto)
Anju Famous Cumans are considered the founders of State of Alba in area today Albania.
At that times we find migration and expansion of Catholicism in Albania and Uniate in Makedonia,
Cumans are connected also with Transylvania and area Apulon town Alba Lullia,
that time and later at Barna wars with Hunjiadi, another Cuman, probably a mass migration from Albocense people moved to the new state of Alba of Anju
and accepted Arber language and create modern Albanian Language,
so when Dienekes says about 400-500 new Y-Dna probably is almost near
since Hunjiadi is same time with Castrioti about 1400-1500,
a possibility that a devastastion at times of the myth of Dracul etc is open by I can not prove it, so I just mention it cause fits with Time Dienekes says but I have no Historical proves until now,

with the above we can solve the language turn from Centum to satem,
we can almost be in Time that Dienekes say
we can explain many Linguist that find connection in Albanian language with Balto-slavic,
and we also can explain why in albanian Language we find Aryan words and Pelasgic,
and even Kush Egyptian, which exist also in Greek language,

same Happened in Turkey, in Area of Trebizond empire, city name Ordu,
where a Big Army of Ottomans was dismissed there,
Kotyora change name and create a new form of syntax and language, with centum sounds speaking Turks
words like
tırmık change to termucha
Findik change to Phuntuki
tütün change to ntumani
in local area dialect, and turkish speaking Greeks,
so both to understand

The Linguistic Analysis of Gustav Mayer
proves that in Albanian Language we have words of unknown or dead languages (ancient or unknown to searcher)
proves connection with Aryan - Armenian and midlle asian or Pelasgic-phoenician (Greco-Aryan, Armeno-Aryan, Perso-Aryan)
proves connection with area of Romania and north Bulgaria (latin speaking Thracians and Gorani-Torbesi slavic influence)
also Proves Islamization or Turkish settlers, (turkish occupation)
 
All this greatest Anthropologist and other Academics Worldwide said that Bosniaks are a Illyrian Race and Nativ Balkanpeople: Angel, Bounak, Coon, Debetz, Ewing, Gherassimov, Hasluck, Morant, Levin, Oudaltsev, Poulianos, Tovarev, Koumaris, Wilkes, Paul, Hirt, Weigand, Tomashek, Georgiev, Pushcariu and many many others and then we got the Genetic facts from Igenea, Genograpic, Familytreedna and all the other Genetic Results.
 
They did find J in the plains of Veneto, where it was found that 55000 Venetians that migrated to crete in the 13th century and 40000 returned between 1602 and 1670.

BTW, they also found T in the alp of the veneto due to the Cimbri who originated from Jutland Denmark.

Also, the Carni seem to be a mix of Celtic and Venetic, when originally scholars said they where Illyrian. IIRC Carniola region was named after the carni

Q1. Are the Histri ( Istrians) , Illyrian or Venetic ?

Lastly...Roberto Salinas Price wrote in 1995, that the Trojan war was based in Dalmatia and the trojans where illyrians and their neighbors where the Dardanians . Scholars have recently said while Mr. Price is correct that TROY was not where we are told it was, they have doubts that it was in Dalmatia.

Wilkes explained the Illyrians very well in his book but the Hungarian Geza Alfoldy in his book Noricum is easier to read
 
They did find J in the plains of Veneto, where it was found that 55000 Venetians that migrated to crete in the 13th century and 40000 returned between 1602 and 1670.

BTW, they also found T in the alp of the veneto due to the Cimbri who originated from Jutland Denmark.

Also, the Carni seem to be a mix of Celtic and Venetic, when originally scholars said they where Illyrian. IIRC Carniola region was named after the carni

Q1. Are the Histri ( Istrians) , Illyrian or Venetic ?

Lastly...Roberto Salinas Price wrote in 1995, that the Trojan war was based in Dalmatia and the trojans where illyrians and their neighbors where the Dardanians . Scholars have recently said while Mr. Price is correct that TROY was not where we are told it was, they have doubts that it was in Dalmatia.

Wilkes explained the Illyrians very well in his book but the Hungarian Geza Alfoldy in his book Noricum is easier to read

from Greek history we know about Carni and Carniola,
they lived in Caria minorAsia, and worshiped apollo,
they move to Greece to corinth, and from to Carniola,
i am not puting any link cause I am in a Hurry,
remember that in peloponese they worship Carnius Apollo,
even today in Christian Diary, we find the Κρεατοφαγω (τριωδιο)
means dedicated to flesh-meat eaters, cause that means Carni,
Even in Orpheus Religion, the Cretans and the Carians and only they, were allowed to eat meat in Mysteries ceremonies,
the links are in Greek, but if you find about ancient greek mysteries and fests you will find about Carnios Apollo and the Carni eaters in mysteries,
Besides the road is known, from Caria to Carinth-Corinthos, and from there to Carniola,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carneian_festival
 

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