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Thread: Haplogroup T

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canek View Post
    No offense to Maciamo. But wikipedia is more reliable than this website. Ferreiro made a great point as always.

    This site is only managed by Maciamo, while wikipedia is managed by a lot of recognized genetists.
    It's the other way around. WikiPedia is a "public encyclopedia". There are no "recognized geneticists" there writing articles at all. All articles are written by amateurs from the general public. Any clown with an agenda (like you) can waltz in and write and/or alter any article at his whim and fancy. Thus the quality of any given WikiPedia article varies greatly. Some are pretty well researched and written, others (the majority) are crap.

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    Subclades of T, if it could be useful: http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpT.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drac View Post
    It's the other way around. WikiPedia is a "public encyclopedia". There are no "recognized geneticists" there writing articles at all. All articles are written by amateurs from the general public. Any clown with an agenda (like you) can waltz in and write and/or alter any article at his whim and fancy. Thus the quality of any given WikiPedia article varies greatly. Some are pretty well researched and written, others (the majority) are crap.
    In fact, the moderators responsible for the Wikipedia Spanish and Portuguese people sections are clearly racist. They frame research information to make it seem that Iberians have large amounts of extra-European genetic influences - outrageously untrue. They even erase autosomal DNA studies, since these demonstrate that both peoples have exceedingly high European genetic affinities; Spain ~ 91% and Portugal ~ 85-86%, going by the latest updates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Moss View Post
    In fact, the moderators responsible for the Wikipedia Spanish and Portuguese people sections are clearly racist. They frame research information to make it seem that Iberians have large amounts of extra-European genetic influences - outrageously untrue. They even erase autosomal DNA studies, since these demonstrate that both peoples have exceedingly high European genetic affinities; Spain ~ 91% and Portugal ~ 85-86%, going by the latest updates.
    Yes, indeed, and this fake-Galician Italian clown is in fact a WikiPedia Vandal that goes by the name of "Galician77". He goes around altering WikiPedia articles in order to make the casual reader (whom we all know does not bother to check with other sources) think that Spain is some sort of extension of Morocco in Europe, while at the same time he tries to lower and minimize any of these Middle Eastern and North African haplogroups in Italy, which this self-hating racist hypocrite buffoon with a massive inferiority complex obviously thinks are a "blemish" on his Italian ancestral land. You can see him in action here, altering passages and percentages in the article about E1b1b that he keeps dishonestly presenting here as some sort of "authority":

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ldid=436450507


    Notice some examples that once again show his idiotic & blatant anti-Spanish & pro-Italian agendas. This, for example:
     
    The E1b1b clade is presently found in various forms in the [[Horn of Africa]], [[North Africa]], parts of [[Eastern Africa|Eastern]], [[Western Africa|Western]], and [[Southern Africa]], [[West Asia]], and [[Europe]] (especially the [[Mediterranean]] and the [[Balkans]]).

    He dishonestly changed to this:
     
    The E1b1b clade is presently found in various forms in the [[Horn of Africa]], [[North Africa]], parts of [[Eastern Africa|Eastern]], [[Western Africa|Western]], and [[Southern Africa]], [[West Asia]], and [[Europe]] (especially the [[Mediterranean Spain ]] and the [[Balkans]])

    Obviously trying to fool the casual reader who is not better informed into thinking that
    E1b1b is highest in Spain than anywhere else in the Mediterranean parts of Europe, which is obviously a total lie.

    This:

    European distribution has a frequency peak centered in parts of the [[Balkans]] (up to almost 50% in some areas)<ref name=Semino2004/><ref name=Pericic2005>{{Harvcoltxt|Peričic et al.|2005}}</ref>) and Italy, and declining frequencies evident toward western, central, and northeastern Europe.

    To this:
     
    The European distribution has a frequency peak centered in parts of the [[Balkans]] (up to almost 50% in some areas)<ref name=Semino2004/><ref name=Pericic2005>{{Harvcoltxt|Peričic et al.|2005}}</ref>) and Sicily, and declining frequencies evident toward western, central, and northeastern Europe.


    As he can't bear to have Italy (except Sicily, which he does not give a rat's ass about) be somehow associated with high frequencies of a haplogroup of ultimate North African origin.
     
    Once again:
     
    In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the [[Iberian Peninsula]],

    To this:
     
    In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the [[Iberian Peninsula]] Spain,


    Another one (this time inflating the frequency of E-M81 in Western Andalusia):
     
    Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in [[Extremadura]] and South Portugal, 9% in [[Galicia (Spain)|Galicia]], 10% in Western [[Andalusia]]

    Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in [[Extremadura]] and South Portugal, 9% in [[Galicia (Spain)|Galicia]], 18% in Western [[Andalusia]]

    I think that you get the picture of what this dishonest & fanatical anti-Spanish Italian clown devotes much of his time doing on the Internet. The reason why he does not like Eupedia as much as WikiPedia is because here he can't go around altering tables and frequencies, whereas in WikiPedia he has a much better chance of getting away with it. More honest people, specially Spaniards, should get involved in WikiPedia, BTW, and oppose & expose this (and other anti-Spanish) Wiki Vandal. He is so brazen and shameless that he actually had the balls of accusing another user of being a troublesome Vandal (what he actually is!) to one of those pseudo-moderators that Wiki has:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_Lancaster

    Scroll down to where it says "Vandalism from IP..." That's the pot calling the kettle "black" right there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drac View Post
    Yes, indeed, and this fake-Galician Italian clown is in fact a WikiPedia Vandal that goes by the name of "Galician77". He goes around altering WikiPedia articles in order to make the casual reader (whom we all know does not bother to check with other sources) think that Spain is some sort of extension of Morocco in Europe, while at the same time he tries to lower and minimize any of these Middle Eastern and North African haplogroups in Italy, which this self-hating racist hypocrite buffoon with a massive inferiority complex obviously thinks are a "blemish" on his Italian ancestral land. You can see him in action here, altering passages and percentages in the article about E1b1b that he keeps dishonestly presenting here as some sort of "authority":

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ldid=436450507


    Notice some examples that once again show his idiotic & blatant anti-Spanish & pro-Italian agendas. This, for example:
     
    The E1b1b clade is presently found in various forms in the [[Horn of Africa]], [[North Africa]], parts of [[Eastern Africa|Eastern]], [[Western Africa|Western]], and [[Southern Africa]], [[West Asia]], and [[Europe]] (especially the [[Mediterranean]] and the [[Balkans]]).

    He dishonestly changed to this:
     
    The E1b1b clade is presently found in various forms in the [[Horn of Africa]], [[North Africa]], parts of [[Eastern Africa|Eastern]], [[Western Africa|Western]], and [[Southern Africa]], [[West Asia]], and [[Europe]] (especially the [[Mediterranean Spain ]] and the [[Balkans]])

    Obviously trying to fool the casual reader who is not better informed into thinking that
    E1b1b is highest in Spain than anywhere else in the Mediterranean parts of Europe, which is obviously a total lie.

    This:

    European distribution has a frequency peak centered in parts of the [[Balkans]] (up to almost 50% in some areas)<ref name=Semino2004/><ref name=Pericic2005>{{Harvcoltxt|Peričic et al.|2005}}</ref>) and Italy, and declining frequencies evident toward western, central, and northeastern Europe.

    To this:
     
    The European distribution has a frequency peak centered in parts of the [[Balkans]] (up to almost 50% in some areas)<ref name=Semino2004/><ref name=Pericic2005>{{Harvcoltxt|Peričic et al.|2005}}</ref>) and Sicily, and declining frequencies evident toward western, central, and northeastern Europe.


    As he can't bear to have Italy (except Sicily, which he does not give a rat's ass about) be somehow associated with high frequencies of a haplogroup of ultimate North African origin.
     
    Once again:
     
    In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the [[Iberian Peninsula]],

    To this:
     
    In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the [[Iberian Peninsula]] Spain,


    Another one (this time inflating the frequency of E-M81 in Western Andalusia):
     
    Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in [[Extremadura]] and South Portugal, 9% in [[Galicia (Spain)|Galicia]], 10% in Western [[Andalusia]]

    Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in [[Extremadura]] and South Portugal, 9% in [[Galicia (Spain)|Galicia]], 18% in Western [[Andalusia]]

    I think that you get the picture of what this dishonest & fanatical anti-Spanish Italian clown devotes much of his time doing on the Internet. The reason why he does not like Eupedia as much as WikiPedia is because here he can't go around altering tables and frequencies, whereas in WikiPedia he has a much better chance of getting away with it. More honest people, specially Spaniards, should get involved in WikiPedia, BTW, and oppose & expose this (and other anti-Spanish) Wiki Vandal. He is so brazen and shameless that he actually had the balls of accusing another user of being a troublesome Vandal (what he actually is!) to one of those pseudo-moderators that Wiki has:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_Lancaster

    Scroll down to where it says "Vandalism from IP..." That's the pot calling the kettle "black" right there!

    was it galician 77 or andrew lancaster, because andrew lancaster is the later one

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    was it galician 77 or andrew lancaster, because andrew lancaster is the later one
    Andrew Lancaster is one of the several so-called moderators they have over at WikiPedia, and "Galician77" is the same anti-Spanish t-r-o-l-l as "Ferreiro".

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    Absolutely PATHETIC.

    What an obsession...

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    The team of New Fantastic 4 again barking, barking, barking. I am very calm because I have always provided a scientific data I have put the link where you can see such data. These 4 pretend to hide data from the haplogroup E-M81, T, H... in Spain. It is so laughable. Science has shown that 18% of the samples in southwest Spain (Cadiz, Seville, Huelva...) correspond to haplogroup E-M81. Do you really think you can hide the data? You are a waste of time. I Do not even read what they write, because their speech is the same in all the forums: there is nothing from North Africa in Spain, and Ferreiro is a *****. They think that if I am discredited the scientific study will be discredited too .


    Continuing with serious things.
    18% of E-M81 in SW Spain = 1 in 5 individuals in Seville, Cadiz, Huelva (the same in Leon, NW of Spain) shares the same haplogroup that the typical resident of Rabat, Casablanca and Marrakech. In Morocco E-M81 gets 80%.

    Extract:
    In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the Iberian Peninsula Spain, where unlike in the rest of Europe[Note 6] it is more common than E-M78, with an average frequency of 4-5.6%. Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in Extremadura and South Portugal, 9% in Galicia, 18% in Western Andalusia and Northwest Castile and 9% to 17% in Cantabria.[18][29][30][31][32] The highest frequencies of this clade found so far in Europe were observed in the Pasiegos from Cantabria, ranging from 18% (8/45)[32] to 41% (23/56).[2] An average frequency of 10.28% (54/652) has also been reported in the Spanish Canary Islands with frequencies over 17% in the three largest islands of Tenerife (10.68%), Gran Canaria (11.54%) and Fuerteventura (13.33%).[33]


    The complete link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)

    Authors (not me, hahaha): Adams 2008, Flores 2005, Beleza 2006, Capelli 2009, Maca-Meyer N., Sánchez-Velasco P., Flores C. et al., Larruga JM, González AM, Oterino A, Leyva-Cobián F (2003)

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    Now one of the New Fantastic 4 (Grey Moss) starts talking about racism on the Internet against Spain, and international scientific conspiracy against Spain

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    As for haplogroup T, the same.
    This was my first message in this forum about haplogroup T. I put the link too.

    I've always been intrigued with this haplogroup, because it is very rare in Europe.
    The highest concentrations in Europe are given in the Spanish island of Ibiza, with almost 17%!!! Then in Andalusia with 6%, according to the following genetic research

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h..._ethnic_groups

    Ibiza: 16.7% (54 samples) are haplogroup T
    Zalloua et al. (2008), Identifying Genetic Traces of Historical Expansions: Phoenician Footprints in the Mediterranean, The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 83, Issue 5, 633-642 17 November 2008

    Andalucía: 6.9% (29 samples) are haplogroup T
    A; Passarino G, Oefner PJ, Lin AA, Arbuzova S, Beckman LE, De Benedictis G, Francalacci P, Kouvatsi A, Limborska S, Marcikiae M, Mika A, Mika B, Primorac D, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA (2000)."The Genetic Legacy of Paleolithic *** sapiens sapiens in Extant Europeans: A Y Chromosome Perspective" (PDF). Science 290 (5494): 1155–59. doi:10.1126/science.290.5494.1155. PMID11073453. http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf.


    I am not the author of the results. They insult me​, trying to discredit me, but that changes nothing :).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferreiro_ View Post
    The team of New Fantastic 4 again barking, barking, barking. I am very calm because I have always provided a scientific fact I have put the link where you can see such data. These 4 pretend to hide data from the haplogroup E-M81 in Spain. It is so laughable. Science has shown that 18% of the samples in southwest Spain (Cadiz, Seville, etc.). correspond to haplogroup E-M81. Do you really think you can hide the data? You are a waste of time. I Do not even read what they write, because their speech is the same in all the forums: there is nothing from North Africa in Spain, and Ferreiro is a *****. They think that if I am discredited the scientific study is discredited too .


    Continuing with serious things.
    18% of E-M81 in SW Spain = 1 in 5 individuals in Seville, and so on. Share the same haplogroup that the typical residents of Rabat, Casablanca and Marrakech.

    Extract:
    In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the Iberian Peninsula Spain, where unlike in the rest of Europe[Note 6] it is more common than E-M78, with an average frequency of 4-5.6%. Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in Extremadura and South Portugal, 9% in Galicia, 18% in Western Andalusia and Northwest Castile and 9% to 17% in Cantabria.[18][29][30][31][32] The highest frequencies of this clade found so far in Europe were observed in the Pasiegos from Cantabria, ranging from 18% (8/45)[32] to 41% (23/56).[2] An average frequency of 10.28% (54/652) has also been reported in the Spanish Canary Islands with frequencies over 17% in the three largest islands of Tenerife (10.68%), Gran Canaria (11.54%) and Fuerteventura (13.33%).[33]


    The complete link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)

    Authors (not me, hahaha): Adams 2008, Flores 2005, Beleza 2006, Capelli 2009, Maca-Meyer N., Sánchez-Velasco P., Flores C. et al., Larruga JM, González AM, Oterino A, Leyva-Cobián F (2003),
    New Pinocchio, you keep presenting a ridiculous WikiPedia article which I have plainly shown that you yourself have altered with your "Galician77" Vandal account. You have shown no scientific work whatsoever that says that E-M81 is 18% in Western Andalusia. You know perfectly well that the original article said 10% and then you changed it at your whim and fancy.

    Capelli et al. 2009 says nothing about "Western Andalusia". It lumps all Andalusians together, and the frequency it gave for them was 5.4%, not "18%".

    Adams et al. 2008 gave 13.69% for West Andalusia.

    As far as I can remember, Beleza et al. 2006 did not even use Andalusians! It was a study about the Portuguese.


    The nose, Pinocchio, the nose!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferreiro_ View Post
    As for haplogroup T, the same.
    This was my first message in this forum about haplogroup T. I put the link too.

    I've always been intrigued with this haplogroup, because it is very rare in Europe.
    The highest concentrations in Europe are given in the Spanish island of Ibiza, with almost 17%!!! Then in Andalusia with 6%, according to the following genetic research

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h..._ethnic_groups

    Ibiza: 16.7% (54 samples) are haplogroup T
    Zalloua et al. (2008), Identifying Genetic Traces of Historical Expansions: Phoenician Footprints in the Mediterranean, The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 83, Issue 5, 633-642 17 November 2008

    Andalucía: 6.9% (29 samples) are haplogroup T
    A; Passarino G, Oefner PJ, Lin AA, Arbuzova S, Beckman LE, De Benedictis G, Francalacci P, Kouvatsi A, Limborska S, Marcikiae M, Mika A, Mika B, Primorac D, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA (2000)."The Genetic Legacy of Paleolithic *** sapiens sapiens in Extant Europeans: A Y Chromosome Perspective" (PDF). Science 290 (5494): 1155–59. doi:10.1126/science.290.5494.1155. PMID11073453. http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf.


    I am not the author of the results. They insult me​, trying to discredit me, but that changes nothing :).
    And this was my first post directed at you stupidly shooting yourself in the foot:

    I am glad that you are "intrigued" about it, because it actually happens to occur at higher frequencies among the Italians you desperately try to defend than the Spaniards you stupidly keep trying to attack:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T_(Y-DNA)

    Like I said before, stop worrying so much about Spaniards and start worrying about your Italian people.

    I am not the author of the results, yet the New Pinocchio gets angry and starts t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g and spamming the same old nonsense and manipulated Wiki stuff trying to discredit anything that goes against his transparent agenda, but that changes nothing :)

    Even the distribution map posted in the thread's first post shows that Italy has higher frequencies :)

    The nose, Pinocchio, the nose!


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    He can't stand that Spaniards are categorically Europeans. All the racist anti-Iberian agenda is going through the culvert.

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    In Portugal, according to Beleza (2006), 12% of natives are haplogroup E.
    in certain regions and cities the figure is much higher. Example, the city of Beja in the south has 37.5% of haplogroup E (8 samples). Portalegre 25% (28 samples). Both of them are in the region called Alentejo, border with Andalucía.
    Even Lisboa gets 17.2% (35 samples).

    The complete link (page 6)
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...05.00221.x/pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferreiro_ View Post
    In Portugal, according to Beleza (2006), 12% of natives are haplogroup E.
    in certain regions and cities the figure is much higher. Example, the city of Beja in the south has 37.5% of haplogroup E (8 samples). Portalegre 25% (28 samples). Both of them are in the region called Alentejo, border with Andalucía.
    Even Lisboa gets 17.2% (35 samples).

    The complete link (page 6)
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...05.00221.x/pdf
    So, who cares? Apparently you are obsessed with E (Y-DNA) in Iberia. BTW, Alentejo province represents ~ 7% of the entire Portuguese population. Once again, haplogroup frequencies do not measure admixture.

    Latest autosomal research (Eurogenes and Dodecad) show that Portugal has ~ 6% NW African affinities and Spain < 3%. In addition, Portugal is ~ 86% Euro ( ~ 40% North / West European and ~ 2% Eastern European). Spain is about 91% Euro, with about 43% N / W / E Euro combined.

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    He thinks we must be worried for something, when we know perfectly what we are. If we really had a strong link with North Africans,there would be no problem in recognize the fact. However, we are not closer to them, autosomal analysis have proven this since a long time.

    So what, ¿must we cry for this?. It's ridiculous at this level being discussing a theme there is no doubt about it. Seriously Ferreiro, you are a pathetic desperate buffon. Solve your problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferreiro_ View Post
    In Portugal, according to Beleza (2006), 12% of natives are haplogroup E.
    in certain regions and cities the figure is much higher. Example, the city of Beja in the south has 37.5% of haplogroup E (8 samples). Portalegre 25% (28 samples). Both of them are in the region called Alentejo, border with Andalucía.
    Even Lisboa gets 17.2% (35 samples).

    The complete link (page 6)
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...05.00221.x/pdf
    "Border with Andalucia" does not = "Andalucia"

    Pinocchio: You've been busted lying through your teeth again.

    It's getting bigger!


  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    He can't stand that Spaniards are categorically Europeans. All the racist anti-Iberian agenda is going through the culvert.
    He just thinks that if he keeps repeating Y-DNA haplogroup information people will think that Spaniards / Iberians have huge amounts of extra-European DNA. Pathetic.
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 17-07-11 at 18:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferreiro_ View Post
    In Portugal, according to Beleza (2006), 12% of natives are haplogroup E.
    in certain regions and cities the figure is much higher. Example, the city of Beja in the south has 37.5% of haplogroup E (8 samples). Portalegre 25% (28 samples). Both of them are in the region called Alentejo, border with Andalucía.
    Even Lisboa gets 17.2% (35 samples).

    The complete link (page 6)
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...05.00221.x/pdf
    This post is a perfect example of how absurdly tendentious the Ferreiro T-R-O-L-L is. He makes certain to mention that Beja recorded 37.5% E (Y-DNA) in the Beleza et al. (2006) study, then conveniently fails to mention that the same research also shows that I (Y-DNA), a haplogroup that is fundamentally associated with Northern European population groups, was recorded at near 18% in the Braga region, 16% in Braganca, ~ 14% in Evora (part of Alentejo province), over 14% in Leiria, 12.5% in Santarem and 12.5% in Beja, which is located in the Alentejo - all I (Y-DNA) clades counted. This charlatan is pathologically driven to distort and lie about the genetics of Iberians, even at the expense of looking like a total fool.

  20. #45
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    He is an insult for all people who really enjoy with genetics and want to learn as much as posible. Fortunately, it's good to see real serious people with interesting contributions.

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    Haplogroups E1b1b and T are the next after I to settle in Europe...so they are more European (South) than R1b or R1a are (North) European. Why are you t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g Ferreiro? Are you racist against South Europeans?

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    He must have a very fat problem.

  23. #48
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    He is a racist specially against Iberians. He never says anything about Italians because he is of significant Italian descent, but like most South Americans, it's almost sure he is of Spanish descent too. As you can see, the nonsense has reached the maximum level on this guy, totally about to get into the asylum for life.

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    Although it has an Italian forefather and suspects that Spaniard could have it, he will always be a South Americans native for his aspect and also it will never manage to gain the contest of Miss Universe, for snub.

  25. #50
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    http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/07...e-san-via.html

    Mybe T corresponds to part of this "west eurasian admixture"? Then I wouldn't assume it's anything to do with phoenicians. Considering the massai culture it doesn't seem anything like what I'd expect for phoenicians and doesn't seem to be native either.

    Or is that why people are angry, an implication if came to spain from north africa?

    Also you can always update wikipedia but if you don't even know the sources eupedia is using then I wouldn't.

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