Haplogroup T

[Sile]

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/07...e-san-via.html

Mybe T corresponds to part of this "west eurasian admixture"? Then I wouldn't assume it's anything to do with phoenicians. Considering the massai culture it doesn't seem anything like what I'd expect for phoenicians and doesn't seem to be native either.

Or is that why people are angry, an implication if came to spain from north africa?

Also you can always update wikipedia but if you don't even know the sources eupedia is using then I wouldn't.

LOL, it arrived in africa last.

Its west-asian for westerners and central asian ( uzbekistan ) for the russian geneologist.

its age is equal to J and G...and its older then R

Edit: what a crap paper , Dienekes is giving info which was already known 4 years ago. they must be desperate for inforamtion.
below is the conclusion of the paper

Conclusions.

Based on these analyses, we can propose a model for the spread of west Eurasian ancestry in
southern and eastern Africa as follows: rst, a large-scale movement of people from west Eurasia into Ethiopia
around 3,000 years ago (perhaps from southern Arabia and associated with the D'mt kingdom and the arrival
of Ethiosemitic languages) resulted in the dispersal of west Eurasian ancestry throughout eastern Africa.
This was then followed by a migration of an admixed population (perhaps pastoralists related to speakers
of Khoe-Kwadi languages) from eastern Africa to southern Africa, with admixture occurring approximately
1,500 years ago. Advances in genotyping DNA from archaeological samples may allow aspects of this model
to be directly tested

So west-asian only entered east and south africa 3000 years ago

[Noman]

LOL, it arrived in africa last.

Its west-asian for westerners and central asian ( uzbekistan ) for the russian geneologist.

its age is equal to J and G...and its older then R

Edit: what a crap paper , Dienekes is giving info which was already known 4 years ago. they must be desperate for inforamtion.
below is the conclusion of the paper

Conclusions.

Based on these analyses, we can propose a model for the spread of west Eurasian ancestry in
southern and eastern Africa as follows: rst, a large-scale movement of people from west Eurasia into Ethiopia
around 3,000 years ago (perhaps from southern Arabia and associated with the D'mt kingdom and the arrival
of Ethiosemitic languages) resulted in the dispersal of west Eurasian ancestry throughout eastern Africa.
This was then followed by a migration of an admixed population (perhaps pastoralists related to speakers
of Khoe-Kwadi languages) from eastern Africa to southern Africa, with admixture occurring approximately
1,500 years ago. Advances in genotyping DNA from archaeological samples may allow aspects of this model
to be directly tested

So west-asian only entered east and south africa 3000 years ago

Yeah I did not think it came from africa. But I thought maybe that's why the little drama a few posts back, implication it came from the conquista, or something.

But I too find T to be an interesting group and admittedly don't know too much about it.

[adamo]

After J2, T is the most common y-DNA haplogroup in the Turkish city of Antalya (14%).

[adamo]

So the italian city of Aquila, which has like 22% T, is like a mini Antalya on the southern coast of western Asia Minor.

[Sile]

So the italian city of Aquila, which has like 22% T, is like a mini Antalya on the southern coast of western Asia Minor.

Russian genetic scholars have stated since 2011...........

It seems that the most surprising fact of the above data has not attracted attention.
Fact one, that the basic haplotypes R1a1 and T1 are almost identical:
The feeling that T - is an early R1a1, which mutated DYS426 12 -> 11, but DYS392 = 13 survived from ancient R1a1 (by the way, is the same and R1b).


We associate the basic haplotypes of haplogroup T with the youngest haplogroups on a tree - R1a1 and R1b1a2 the Russian Plain and in Europe, respectively:

12 12 11 - 11 11 - 11 - 11 8 17 17 8 10 8 12 10 12 12 8 12 11 11 12 (R1a, RusR)
12 12 13 - 11 11 - 12 - 11 9 15 16 8 10 8 12 10 12 12 8 12 11 11 12 (R1b1a2, EB)

11 12 13 - 11 13 - 9 - 11 8 17 17 8 10 8 12 10 12 12 8 11 12 11 12 (T1)

The similarity of the base haplotype subclades T1 (and other subclades of haplogroup T1) with R1a1 and R1b1a2 immediately obvious, especially in the last panel of the basic haplotypes, particularly haplogroups R1a1 and T1 (identical alleles identified).

Haplogroup T and R1a1 shares according to their base haplotypes of 8-11 mutations. This is - the minimum distance around the tree haplogroup. Distance T and haplogroup R1b1a2 on basic haplotypes - 10-13 mutations. Thus, the place of haplogroup T - at the top of the tree haplogroup.

8-11 mutations with haplogroup R1a1 - is 40600-60700 years between their common ancestors. In this case, the common ancestor of haplogroup T and R1a1 lived between (40600 +5000 +10000) / 2 = 28,000 years ago (60700 +5000 +10000) / 2 = 38,000 years ago. This - the approximate time of haplogroup R, but this pattern is not consistent with current knowledge of the phylogeny of haplogroups R and T. But phylogenetics is not consistent with the view base haplotype haplogroup. It is clear that the experts it needs to be carefully considered, and possibly make adjustments. Haplogroup T definitely does not fit into an existing tree haplogroups after a series of 2009-2011, side moves.


Literature

Klesov, AA (2011) DNA-Genealogy major haplogroups of the male half of humanity (Part 1). Bulletin of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy (ISSN 1942-7484), 4, № 5, 988-1014.

Klyosov, AA (2011) Haplotypes of R1b1a2-P312 and related subclades: origin and "ages" of most recent common ancestors. Proceedings of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy, v.4, No. 6, 1127-1195.

[adamo]

I really don't understand why you posted that, or what it means. Wha? The similarity between R1a1 and T? Just no.

[Sile]

I really don't understand why you posted that, or what it means. Wha? The similarity between R1a1 and T? Just no.

this is one part of the paper from April 2013

http://aklyosov.home.comcast.net/~ak...06_04_2013.pdf

its basically a similarity of Haplotypes. from what I read , the theory is about that humans as not all out of africa, but that a second branch came out in central asian area


EDIT: this theory is also a Spencer Wells (Natgeno 2.0) theory,

[adamo]

Also found in 12% of men from surkhandarya (extreme southern Uzbekistan, on the border with northern Afghanistan.) also 12% of Mongol "turan/Altaic" types and 18% of Turkic uyghurs or something like that, and high frequencies of Tuvans from Xinjiang, extreme western china. Many extreme central Asians such as people as far as Tajikistan/western china and even parts of china bordering Mongolia where T frequencies become elevated again, but it certainly did not originate there, just branched off there.

[adamo]

So the highest frequencies really are in Turkish cities (Antalya,Samsun) several Iranian cities, a Uzbek city etc. on top of all that we already know.

[adamo]

Also found in about 11% of Azeris and 15.4% in another Turkish city, but also in 10-15% of certain Mongols, Chinese and Kazakhs particular sub tribes such as uyghurs or Tuvans or turans, who inhabited the eastern fringe of Central Asia (not only Tajikistan/Turkmenistan but as far as Kazakhstan and tiny fractions of china and Mongolia, the turans (turanids?) are ultimately of iranic origin. T is also found rarely and sporadically across India in Dravidian or Bengali populations.

[adamo]

In all of Central Asia though, it is to be noted that the Tajiks, in particular, must have the highest T frequencies, as they look the part the most; the Uzbeks and Kyrgyz have a more asiatic character and Uzbekistan follows along those same lines as well, whereas the Tajiks are an Iranian type lineage.

[Sile]

Also found in about 11% of Azeris and 15.4% in another Turkish city, but also in 10-15% of certain Mongols, Chinese and Kazakhs particular sub tribes such as uyghurs or Tuvans or turans, who inhabited the eastern fringe of Central Asia (not only Tajikistan/Turkmenistan but as far as Kazakhstan and tiny fractions of china and Mongolia, the turans (turanids?) are ultimately of iranic origin. T is also found rarely and sporadically across India in Dravidian or Bengali populations.

Are azerbajani and azeri the same people?....they might be now, but in the past I doubt it.
The medes had a major inpact for the area.
What about the circassians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes

lots of T belong to these ( 14% )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

also, this has a part
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire

and bronze-age for the area in question:
The Kaska (Turkish: Kaşkalar, Georgian: ქაშქები, Kashkebi) (also Kaška, later Tabalian Kasku)^[1] were a loosely-affiliated Bronze Age non-Indo-European tribal people, who spoke the unclassified Kaskian language and lived in mountainous Pontic Anatolia, known from Hittite sources.^[2] They lived in the mountainous region between the core Hittite region in eastern Anatolia and the Black Sea, and are cited as the reason that the later Hittite empire never extended northward to that area.

[adamo]

True Zoroastrianism is deeply rooted in Persia and can be linked to hg T, I wish someone would expand on the hg in a more descriptive and interesting way though lol.

[Sile]

The only areas where my subclade L446 appears in Europe and middle-east ( required was 67 or more markers tested)



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Total number = 7

[adamo]

Weird distribution right there

[adamo]

It's funny, cause according to the genographic project 2.0, haplogroup T's trail starts in east-central Africa and travels across the straight of Hormuz into Yemen on the southern Arabian peninsula. It continues doing this until reaching extreme northern saudi arabia. At this point, two branches separate. One branch moves from extreme north-central Arabian peninsula towards south-central Iraq in the Tigris valley region. The other branch spreads From northern Saudi Arabia,across the Sinai, and into Egypt. Somehow from here, high levels of hg T would arrive either from Egypt to the Horn of Africa (Somalia,Ethiopia), or from the Arabian peninsula showing Neolithic gene flow from the Middle East back to Africa. The correct answer is probably BOTH.

[Sile]

Same parameters as above but for main L131 line ( T1a2)



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[Sile]

It's funny, cause according to the genographic project 2.0, haplogroup T's trail starts in east-central Africa and travels across the straight of Hormuz into Yemen on the southern Arabian peninsula. It continues doing this until reaching extreme northern saudi arabia. At this point, two branches separate. One branch moves from extreme north-central Arabian peninsula towards south-central Iraq in the Tigris valley region. The other branch spreads From northern Saudi Arabia,across the Sinai, and into Egypt. Somehow from here, high levels of hg T would arrive either from Egypt to the Horn of Africa (Somalia,Ethiopia), or from the Arabian peninsula showing Neolithic gene flow from the Middle East back to Africa. The correct answer is probably BOTH.

Then that company has blundered as the african T marker is the youngest of the other ones, middle-east, Europe and Asia

Haplogroup T-M184 is not associated with the R1, G and J lineages that entered Africa from Eurasia relatively recently. Luis et al. (2004) suggest that the presence of the clade on the African continent may, like R1* representatives, point to an older introduction from Asia. The Levant rather than the Arabian Peninsula appears to have been the main route of entry, as the Egyptian and Turkish haplotypes are considerably older in age (13,700 ybp and 9,000 ybp, respectively) than those found in Oman (only 1,600 ybp).

[adamo]

Well I added that last part about it coming from Egypt, they didn't quite specify where it came from, only that there's a 13% high form certain Somalis and Ethiopians.

[adamo]

We know that Saudi Arabian tribes linked to Banu Hashim, Quraish, the Mecca/Hejaz regions of Saudi Arabia crossed the straight of Hormuz back into the Horn of Africa relatively recently , a Eurasian haplogroup expanding back towards Africa.

[adamo]

It's interesting to know that Egyptian T has more diversity/age than Turkish T by about 4,700 years in advance, leading me to believe that hg T may certainly have originated near the Levant, but it could certainly have arrived from much further east as well, I heard that diversity was greater in the "levant" (don't know which specific region.) than in Iran, but I would like to see further testing done on this.

[adamo]

But then again, diversity is higher in Iran than in Egypt, so it makes this all the more complicated as there are two power cores of "oldest age"; the Levantine coast region and Iran.

[Sile]

The only 2 x T -M184 ( which are not M-70 ) in europe and middle-east which have 67 or more markers tested.
note: this M184 is the base of all T as all M70 have this M184 marker. Estimation is that only 5% of T is not M70
I heard of only one other M184 in Syria.



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[adamo]

Map coming shortly? What map?

[Sile]

Map coming shortly? What map?

see above now