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Thread: who were Slavic people?

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    First off all, I have to learn english. I can't clearly explain. I should change territory of early Slavs - not only "Ukraine" but also Poland. of course with I2a1b (alone or with r1a1 people). And I2a1 people grows here, do not moved. With Huns invasion came R1a1 people with many subclades which make them Balts, some Sarmatians or Scythians. This resulted that Slavs started moved to south. Later more R1a1 people came to east Europe with Mongol invasion. In Poland we still have slavic language because of Bible (made by Cyryl & Methodius). If we can teach Africans to speak french or portuguese so it was possible to teach R1a1 people speak some kind of slavic language. I red a book from 1851 written by Karol Szajnocha "Lechicki początek Polski" Lechites began of Poland. Author explained that polish language (or more accurate slavic - serbian or croatian) grows from old norman language. Polish places like Złotów or Złotniki have nothing to do with Złoto - gold but much more with norman word slott - castle. He put quite a lot of examples. Now Swedes or Norwegians changed their language because of Celts etc.


    and some add:




    I used to be fascinated by the Slavs a year ago. I read and tried to understand Serbian and Croatian language. They have in their consciousness the migration from northern lands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalorum View Post
    In my researches. Poles are slavicised Balts, Sarmatians, Normans, Celto-Germans ad next Slavs. Slavs are I2a1b people. They moved to "Poland" in V century from "Ukraine" turn in VII go south. Byzantine Empire made slavic version of Bible and as a winner "given us" language, religion etc. to Poland, where for 200 years settled Slavs (Serbs and Croats: White). Later we (Balts and Sarmatian in majority) were at influence of Roman Emipre, so we erased glagolica and take Latinica.
    If in Ireland Celtic people speak now german english language are they Germans or English? If in Mozambique speaks portuguese language - are they really Portuguese people?
    And look - in Ukraine I2a1b is still about 20%, ex-Yugoslavia near 40- 50%
    The differences between Balts, Sarmatians and Scythians is subclade under R1a1. Normans is I1, Celto-Germans R1b u-106 ...
    Nobody gave us "language", lol... Do you think that your ancestors remained Polish language because of some "Church"? No, they fought for this language and for your land! The claim that some religious (occult) group from Byzantium gave us language is idiotic. Do you think that Slavs did not have their own faith before Christianity? Christian cult is a fusion of Egyptian Osirianism & Sethism and other "pagan" faiths...(look at the "Horns of moses" & Flavius quoting Manetho about real name of "Moses", being an "Osiris's priest"). The Christian "festivals" did not come from any "Greeks" to us, but were perverted to the maximum degree and assimilated into the new cult called Christianity. This is why the "Dark middle ages" were called "Dark", because it was a time to purge Europe from the old world... It seems you are still living in some imaginary world. Old Slavs have had rich culture, language, every word is like a treasure to me. It contains a message, which is(was) part of mythology, poems. And understand the flow of your thoughts completelly. Everything you read from religious ABrahamic (Against Brahmanic; old Slavic and also Lithuanian, Latvian was part of it) sources about "non abrahamic faiths" is "satanic, primitive and does not exist"... Why do you think were Slavs in a war with Rome (ex Etruscan Ruma) and Byzantium (Božiant) if not because of this parasitical society called Christianity?
    Sarmatia was only a Latin transliteration... , like was Galicia in current Ukraine or Halycia; which was never a "Celtic" territory; instead the names Galicia, Celt or Ghaul derives from "Glagoliti"; "Galeb, seaGull; Galus,...It was a territorial name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    Nobody gave us "language", lol... Do you think that your ancestors remained Polish language because of some "Church"? No, they fought for this language and for your land! The claim that some religious (occult) group from Byzantium gave us language is idiotic. Do you think that Slavs did not have their own faith before Christianity? Christian cult is a fusion of Egyptian Osirianism & Sethism and other "pagan" faiths...(look at the "Horns of moses" & Flavius quoting Manetho about real name of "Moses", being an "Osiris's priest"). The Christian "festivals" did not come from any "Greeks" to us, but were perverted to the maximum degree and assimilated into the new cult called Christianity. This is why the "Dark middle ages" were called "Dark", because it was a time to purge Europe from the old world... It seems you are still living in some imaginary world. Old Slavs have had rich culture, language, every word is like a treasure to me. It contains a message, which is(was) part of mythology, poems. And understand the flow of your thoughts completelly. Everything you read from religious ABrahamic (Against Brahmanic; old Slavic and also Lithuanian, Latvian was part of it) sources about "non abrahamic faiths" is "satanic, primitive and does not exist"... Why do you think were Slavs in a war with Rome (ex Etruscan Ruma) and Byzantium (Božiant) if not because of this parasitical society called Christianity?
    Sarmatia was only a Latin transliteration... , like was Galicia in current Ukraine or Halycia; which was never a "Celtic" territory; instead the names Galicia, Celt or Ghaul derives from "Glagoliti"; "Galeb, seaGull; Galus,...It was a territorial name.
    So look how looks Russians, how Poles, how ex-Yugoslavia people and how Bulgarians. Russians look... "russians", Poles on majority looking West Baltid, Bulgaria Pontid (in Poland about 15-20% looks North Pontid) Yugoslavia people in majority looks Dinarid. We are different people who are speaking something similar like nowadays esperanto. We Poles have word dużo = much, other Slavs have word "mnogo" but Latvians have "daudz", Lithuenians have "daug".

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    I2a is pre-slavic in the Southern Europe. Slavs were an almost exclusively R1a group.

    Abstract


    Y chromosome variation in 457 Croatian samples was studied using 16 SNPs/indel and eight STR loci. High frequency of haplogroup I in Croatian populations and the phylogeographic pattern in its background STR diversity over Europe make Adriatic coast one likely source of the recolonization of Europe following the Last Glacial Maximum. The higher frequency of I in the southern island populations is contrasted with higher frequency of group R1a chromosomes in the northern island of Krk and in the mainland. R1a frequency, while low in Greeks and Albanians, is highest in Polish, Ukrainian and Russian populations and could be a sign of the Slavic impact in the Balkan region. Haplogroups J, G and E that can be related to the spread of farming characterize the minor part (12.5%) of the Croatian paternal lineages. In one of the southern island (Hvar) populations, we found a relatively high frequency (14%) of lineages belonging to P*(xM173) cluster, which is unusual for European populations. Interestingly, the same population also harbored mitochondrial haplogroup F that is virtually absent in European populations – indicating a connection with Central Asian populations, possibly the Avars.




    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v.../5200992a.html

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    "We Poles have word dużo = much, other Slavs have word "mnogo" but Latvians have "daudz", Lithuenians have "daug"."

    And we have dosti (dost in dialects) or mnogo, "duže" (dolgo); "long". Mnogo means Ma-Noge ("has legs") in your language. This is the 'difference' between us(you can name things as you wish - to describe it; and the word will sound totally different in some other Slavic or non Slavic language (it will transmute, mutate; my point here is that slavic languages are generally ignored in linguistics, already because of stereotypes which started long, long ago, by your "beloved Church")... Slavic tribes were separated into 3 major groups:
    1) Veni ("Veneti")
    2) Antes (Ukrainians, old Russians)
    3) Sklavines (a mixture between Scythian (V)Antes and Vens; hence; Skla-Veni or Skolotoi (Sokoli, Skoti)+Venci...
    And you do not 'look' any different from any Ukrainians and Russians.

    You can notice this fact that your men carry Y patrimonial haplogroups: R1a: 57%, R1b: 13%, other haplogroups are in minority. N (Tatar / Turkish & Suomi) haplogroup is bellow 4%; Latvians have 38-42% of N haplogroups, 38-40% of the R1a haplogroup... Russians have bellow(!) 23% of the N haplogroup (which does not make them "finnic", they have Suomi ancestry only over their "mothers" ). They also have above 55% of the R1a haplogroup... Note, that the origin of this partimonial line came from Russia itself and nowhere else on this planet.

    Do you think we "inherited" all these vast territories from some "Church"? Church with their beloved "chosen" Teutones would rather destroy us, with Greeks and Italians. Not to mention Ottomans who were treatened in our lands. Polish and Russian people destroyed their dreams to capture whole Europe, before they've ever reached Gothic territories!

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    So, are Pashtuns or Tajiks (r1a1) Slavs? Or maybe Latvian are Slavs? But why they speak non slavic languages?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    "We Poles have word dużo = much, other Slavs have word "mnogo" but Latvians have "daudz", Lithuenians have "daug"."

    And we have dosti (dost in dialects) or mnogo, "duže" (dolgo); "long". Mnogo means Ma-Noge ("has legs") in your language. This is the 'difference' between us... Slavic tribes were separated into 3 major groups:
    1) Veni ("Veneti")
    2) Antes (Ukrainians, old Russians)
    3) Sklavines (a mixture between Scythian (V)Antes and Vens; hence; Skla-Veni or Skolotoi (Sokoli, Skoti)+Venci...
    And you do not 'look' any different from any Ukrainians and Russians.

    You can notice this fact that your men carry Y patrimonial haplogroups: R1a: 57%, R1b: 13%, other haplogroups are in minority. N (Tatar / Turkish & Suomi) haplogroup is bellow 4%; Latvians have 38-42% of N haplogroups, 38-40% of the R1a haplogroup... Russians have bellow(!) 23% of the N haplogroup (which does not make them "finnic", they have Suomi ancestry only over their "mothers" ).

    Do you think we "inherited" all these vast territories from some "Church"? Church with their beloved "chosen" Teutones would rather destroy us, with Greeks and Italians. Not to mention Ottomans who were treatened in our lands. Polish and Russian people destroyed their dreams to capture whole Europe, before they've ever reached Gothic territories!
    Dosti in polish is dość / dosyć not "dużo"

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    And. If we have something about 2 thousand samples. Is this enought to 38 milion (or with emigrants 60) citizenships of Poland? These test costs money - it promotes objectivity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    Russians have bellow(!) 23% of the N haplogroup (which does not make them "finnic", they have Suomi ancestry only over their "mothers" ).
    I'll interject here to say there's a difference between Finnish (Suomi) and Finno-Ugric ancestry. Russians, specifically northern Russians, have little of the former and lot of the latter - and not just from their mothers. You won't find anything close to those percentages in West or South Slavs or Ukrainians.

    Finnish mtDNA pool is quite distinctive due to, for example, certain prevalent U5 clades and does not resemble that of Russian slavs from any region. Whatever Meryans or Bjarmians or other finno-ugric speakers involved in Russian ethnogenesis were, they were not "like us".

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalorum View Post
    Dosti in polish is dość / dosyć not "dużo"
    Depends on context, it could mean "I have a lot (dostatek), therefore enough (dosc, nie potrzebuje wiecej).

    We Poles have word dużo = much, other Slavs have word "mnogo" but Latvians have "daudz"
    Poles also use "mnogo" as "duzo", old village people and perhaps more in easter Poland. We have also word "mnozyc", multiply, produce, many offspring.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    "We Poles have word dużo = much, other Slavs have word "mnogo" but Latvians have "daudz", Lithuenians have "daug"."

    And we have dosti (dost in dialects) or mnogo, "duže" (dolgo); "long". Mnogo means Ma-Noge ("has legs") in your language. This is the 'difference' between us(you can name things as you wish - to describe it; and the word will sound totally different in some other Slavic or non Slavic language (it will transmute, mutate; my point here is that slavic languages are generally ignored in linguistics, already because of stereotypes which started long, long ago, by your "beloved Church")... Slavic tribes were separated into 3 major groups:
    1) Veni ("Veneti")
    2) Antes (Ukrainians, old Russians)
    3) Sklavines (a mixture between Scythian (V)Antes and Vens; hence; Skla-Veni or Skolotoi (Sokoli, Skoti)+Venci...
    And you do not 'look' any different from any Ukrainians and Russians.

    You can notice this fact that your men carry Y patrimonial haplogroups: R1a: 57%, R1b: 13%, other haplogroups are in minority. N (Tatar / Turkish & Suomi) haplogroup is bellow 4%; Latvians have 38-42% of N haplogroups, 38-40% of the R1a haplogroup... Russians have bellow(!) 23% of the N haplogroup (which does not make them "finnic", they have Suomi ancestry only over their "mothers" ). They also have above 55% of the R1a haplogroup... Note, that the origin of this partimonial line came from Russia itself and nowhere else on this planet.

    Do you think we "inherited" all these vast territories from some "Church"? Church with their beloved "chosen" Teutones would rather destroy us, with Greeks and Italians. Not to mention Ottomans who were treatened in our lands. Polish and Russian people destroyed their dreams to capture whole Europe, before they've ever reached Gothic territories!
    As usually you find patterns where they don't exist. To much inconsequential play with words, and everything narrows down to old Pagan Religion, the "True One".

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalorum View Post
    First off all, I have to learn english. I can't clearly explain. I should change territory of early Slavs - not only "Ukraine" but also Poland. of course with I2a1b (alone or with r1a1 people). And I2a1 people grows here, do not moved. With Huns invasion came R1a1 people with many subclades which make them Balts, some Sarmatians or Scythians. This resulted that Slavs started moved to south. Later more R1a1 people came to east Europe with Mongol invasion. In Poland we still have slavic language because of Bible (made by Cyryl & Methodius). If we can teach Africans to speak french or portuguese so it was possible to teach R1a1 people speak some kind of slavic language. I red a book from 1851 written by Karol Szajnocha "Lechicki początek Polski" Lechites began of Poland. Author explained that polish language (or more accurate slavic - serbian or croatian) grows from old norman language. Polish places like Złotów or Złotniki have nothing to do with Złoto - gold but much more with norman word slott - castle. He put quite a lot of examples. Now Swedes or Norwegians changed their language because of Celts etc.
    What do you propose Slavs spoke before Slavic language was artificially invented? Right, we don't know, so as well they spoke Slavic in first place. It is the simplest explanation therefore most likely the right one. We also know that Poles spoken slavic language before they became christians. It makes hypothesis about christianity teaching Slavic language to Pagans invalid.

    Can you tell us how much I2a1b is in Poland?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    I am not talking about 5th cent.haplogroups!

    Motala12(Male) 6,000BC Motala Sweden: Y DNA=pre-I2a1b or brother lineage to I2a1b(I PF3742+, I M258+, I M170+, I2 L68+, I2a L460+, I2a1 P37.2+, I2a1b CTS7218+, I2a1b CTS5985+. I2a1b L178+, I2a1b CTS1293+, I2a1b CTS176+, I2a1b CTS5375-, I2a1b CTS8486-, I2a1b1 M359.2-, I2a1b3 L621-), mtDNA=U2e1
    That's weird, I thought I was talking about Slavic expansion into Poland?
    I would be nice if next time your comments were related to the subject at hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Depends on context, it could mean "I have a lot (dostatek), therefore enough (dosc, nie potrzebuje wiecej).

    Poles also use "mnogo" as "duzo", old village people and perhaps more in easter Poland. We have also word "mnozyc", multiply, produce, many offspring.
    Poles use 'dużo', 'mnożyć' means other thing, something like 'enlarge' but not 'much' / 'many', and if I know only Poles use 'dużo' so it can't be slavic track on balts languages but Latvian/Lithuanian (and extinct Old Prussian) on to polish language
    And I can get You many other examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    What do you propose Slavs spoke before Slavic language was artificially invented? Right, we don't know, so as well they spoke Slavic in first place. It is the simplest explanation therefore most likely the right one. We also know that Poles spoken slavic language before they became christians. It makes hypothesis about christianity teaching Slavic language to Pagans invalid.

    Can you tell us how much I2a1b is in Poland?
    Slavs speak something like todays serbian/croatian language. it existed. But Poles (mix of Balts, Dacians - Sarmatians, Celto-Germans and Normans) learn it from slavic version of Bible. And here lived and still live real Slavic people with I2a1b. White Serbia and White Croatia existed in south of Poland, west Ukraine, Bohemia. Czech language in my opinion is closer to serbian or croatian than to polish. Polish languages grows on ruthenian language - east "slavic", Polabian language was west slavic and extincted.
    Pay attention that in Łużyce / Lusatia R1a1 prevails but there is also a large number of I2a1b. And Lusatia exist in a waist territory west Ukraine, south Poland/Czech and further west.

    I do not know if ever it will be impossible to know the number of I2a1b in Poland. We know one - this haplogroup exist here. We have only 2 thousand examples of random people who paid for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalorum View Post
    Slavs speak something like todays serbian/croatian language. it existed. But Poles (mix of Balts, Dacians - Sarmatians, Celto-Germans and Normans) learn it from slavic version of Bible. And here lived and still live real Slavic people with I2a1b. White Serbia and White Croatia existed in south of Poland, west Ukraine, Bohemia. Czech language in my opinion is closer to serbian or croatian than to polish. Polish languages grows on ruthenian language - east "slavic", Polabian language was west slavic and extincted.
    Pay attention that in Łużyce / Lusatia R1a1 prevails but there is also a large number of I2a1b. And Lusatia exist in a waist territory west Ukraine, south Poland/Czech and further west.

    I do not know if ever it will be impossible to know the number of I2a1b in Poland. We know one - this haplogroup exist here. We have only 2 thousand examples of random people who paid for it.
    so, you believe the serbian story , that slavs all came from serbians ............the serbians filled Poland then Ukraine with slavs.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    "Slavic" pottery

    Aside from genetics and linguistics, there is another tool to identify "origin", namely the spread of certain technologies. There is hardly a technology that has been studied more extensively by archaeologists than pottery - in fact the most common material used to distinguish pre- and early metal-using cultures.

    A key innovation here has been the invention of the pottery wheel. It is first documented for the late 4th millennium BC in Mesopotamia, but may in fact have arrived there from the Indus valley. During the third millennium, the technology spread to the Eastern Mediterranean (Anatolia, Levant, Egypt, Aegean islands), and latest by the first half of the second millennium it arrived on the Eastern Balkans (http://www.aegeobalkanprehistory.net...e.php?id_art=1). During the Iron Age, the pottery wheel is, among others, used by Etrurians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucchero), the Scythians in the Carpathian basin ((http://regeszet.org.hu/images/angol/a_007.pdf) and most likely also along the Western Black Sea, and presumably also Hallstatt- La Tene Continental Celts. On the British Isles, however it only arrives in the 1st century BC with the immigration of the Belgae. While the use of the pottery wheel is widespread across all of the Roman empire, it only reaches the Germanics via the Alemanni in SW Germany (from the 3rd century AD) and the Franks (from the 5th century AD). The penetration of Germania parallels the Frankish expansion - wheeled pottery arrives in Schleswig, i.e. at what was the Southern Danish border during that period, in the 11th century (http://www.academia.edu/1736261/Ubun...d_Skandinavier , in German).

    So, what about the Slavs? If they were Dinaric, or at least NW Pontic in origin, shouldn't they have used the pottery wheel? In fact, the most commonly used tool to archeologically trace Slavic expansion on the Balkans and north of the Carpathians has been finds of ceramics of the Prague-Korchak type, and related variants such as the Leipzig group (middle Elbe) and the Sukow-Dziedziche group (Western and central Baltic Sea). These ceramics are hand-made, i.e. without using the pottery wheel, and sparsely decorated (see the example of Leipzig pottery below).


    The whole concept of "Slavic" Prague-Korchak type pottery has been criticized from multiple angles, including dating problems, and the inability to assign ceramics to ethno-linguistics (the Anglo-Saxon migration in England, e.g., coincided with a marked decrease in the use of the pottery wheel there, so the appearance of hand-made ceramics must not necessarily relate to Slavs, but may have been effected by Germanics as well). For an extensive critique see http://www.academia.edu/231240/The_P...classification. For the moment, it suffices to constate that mainstream, especially Russian, Polish and Czech, but also a lot of German archaeology has traditionally equated Slavs with simple, hand-made pottery.

    Now, let's look at another culture assumed to be early Slavic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipote%C...5%9Fti_culture
    The Penkovka culture (so called in its Ukrainian part) or Ipotesti-Candesti culture (in Romania) is an archaeological culture Ukraine spanning Moldova and reaching into Romania. Its western boundary is usually taken to at the middle Prut and Dniester rivers, where contact with the Korchak culture occurs.
    The core of the culture seems to be in Left-bank Ukraine, especially along the Sula, Seim, Psel, Donets and Oril rivers,[2][3] but its territory extends to Right-bank Ukraine, and Penkovka pottery is also found in eastern and southern Romania, where it co-exists with wheel-made pottery of late Roman derivation; and is referred to as the Ipotesti-Candesti culture by Romanian archaeologists.[4] Penkovka-type pottery has even been found in Byzantine forts in the north-eastern Balkans.[5] "Nomadic" style wheel-made pottery (called Pastyrske or Saltovo ware) also occurs in the Ukrainian Penkovka sites as well as in the lower Danube and Bulgaria, but is most commonly found within the Saltovo-Mayaki culture, associated with Bulgars, Khazars and Alans.[6][7]
    Hand-made Penkovka pottery is distinguished from Prague-Korchak types on the basis of its biconical profile and tendency for out-turned rims.[8] However, Florin Curta has argued that there can be no simple relationship between type of ceramic vessel and the ethnicity of groups which consumed them. E. Teodor performed a detailed analysis of ceramic vessels in 6th century southeastern Europe, and discovered a complex picture which cannot be reduced to 2 or 3 broad 'archaeological cultures', as each microregion and even individual site shows idisyncrasies in their ceramic profile and degree of connectivity to other regions of 'Slavic Europe'.
    Again the concept here is clear: Wheel-made pottery = late Roman, hand-made (south Ukrainian Penkovka)= Slavic. The "Nomadic style" wheel made pottery (obviously, Nomads didn't have anything else to carry, why not take a pottery wheel around...) complicates things a bit, see the map of the Saltovo culture below:


    Here an extract from a paper about the Slavic expansion into the Carpathian basin (http://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/47.html):
    The Slavs who arrived through the Hargita reached the upper valley of the Küküllő rivers around the middle of the 7th century. The 'Prague type' pottery found in the region must date from the very beginning of settlement. The hand-made pots are more of an Avar type, and the utilization of potter's wheels probably spread from territories controlled by the Avars. This pattern is found on sites in the Kis-Küküllő valley. The settlement near the Lóc creek, at Bözöd-Doborotványa-Nagyszénafű, consists of huts with ovens made of stone slabs; 7th century, early Slavic pots were found in its lower layer, and 7th–8th century, late Slavic pots, bearing the mark of Avar influence, in the upper.
    "utilization of potter's wheels probably spread from territory controlled by the Avars.." - as if there wasn't any indication of Scythians using the pottery wheel already a millennium earlier in the region.

    Another example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justiniana_Prima
    Justiniana Prima (Serbian: Царичин град) was a Byzantine city that existed from 535 to 615, and currently an archaeological site, near today's Lebane, Leskovac district in southern Serbia. It was founded by Emperor Justinian I and served as the seat of an Archbishopric that had jurisdiction of the Central Balkans. (..)
    In 615 the city was destroyed by invading Avars coming from north of the Danube. (..)
    Two fibulae[2] and Slavic pottery made 550–600 show that a considerable part of the inhabitants of Justiniana Prima were Slavs before the Avar incursion.
    Bottom lines:
    1. There is no indication of a northward diffusion of the use of the pottery wheel from the Balkans, which had a long tradition in its use, to north of the Carpathians during the second half of the first millennium AD. This makes a Dinaric origin of the Slavs quite unlikely.
    2. There are OTOH clear signs that hand-made pottery, as common north of the Carpathians, expanded into the Balkans. This may either be accepted as proof of Slavic immigration into the Balkans primarily from the north (and not from the NW Black Sea, which had a pottery wheel tradition as well). Alternatively, the advance of hand-made pottery may be regarded as relating to the general breakdown of long-distance trade relations and the incursion of various "Barbarians". Under such a scenario, most of the "official" chronology of Slavic settlement on the Balkans requires critical review.
    Last edited by FrankN; 23-06-14 at 21:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    so, you believe the serbian story , that slavs all came from serbians ............the serbians filled Poland then Ukraine with slavs.
    They (Slavs) lived south Poland, west Ukraine, Czech Republic and Lusatia. Balts lived north of them. The invasion of the Huns caused the outflow of the Slavs south. Have lived in Mozambique en masse Portuguese people?- because now in Mozambique speak portuguese language? Or it was only influence (Byzantine and Roman Empire, christian religion) on Balts (and Sarmatians or Scythians, which came here with Huns invasion)?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Most countries where Slavic languages are spoken today have high R1a, and those Slavic speakers who don't have high R1a, such as the Serbs, are in the Balkans and autosomal analysis shows that they closely resemble their Balkan neighbours, so they probably aren't very "Slavic" genetically. And linguists tell us that the Slavic languages are not that distance from the Iranic languages. So it seems likely to me that the Slavs were a late expansion from the original IE homeland, moving into eastern Europe and imposing their language and customs on the people who were already there and who were probably already a mixture of IE R1a and the original I2 inhabitants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Most countries where Slavic languages are spoken today have high R1a, and those Slavic speakers who don't have high R1a, such as the Serbs, are in the Balkans and autosomal analysis shows that they closely resemble their Balkan neighbours, so they probably aren't very "Slavic" genetically. And linguists tell us that the Slavic languages are not that distance from the Iranic languages. So it seems likely to me that the Slavs were a late expansion from the original IE homeland, moving into eastern Europe and imposing their language and customs on the people who were already there and who were probably already a mixture of IE R1a and the original I2 inhabitants.
    South Slavs have quite a lot I2a1b and R1a1. Real Slavs lived south Poland, Czech, west Ukraine. Balts with some subclades R1a1 lived north of Slavs. In V century Huns invasion pushed forward other R1a1 nations such Sarmatians or Scythians.
    Irish people with r1b and Spaniards with R1b look different. Balts looks different to South Slavs or Ukrainians (with sarmatians subclades R1a1).
    Spaniards speak spanish Irish speak german english language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalorum View Post
    Slavs speak something like todays serbian/croatian language. it existed. But Poles (mix of Balts, Dacians - Sarmatians, Celto-Germans and Normans) learn it from slavic version of Bible. And here lived and still live real Slavic people with I2a1b. White Serbia and White Croatia existed in south of Poland, west Ukraine, Bohemia. Czech language in my opinion is closer to serbian or croatian than to polish. Polish languages grows on ruthenian language - east "slavic", Polabian language was west slavic and extincted.
    Pay attention that in Łużyce / Lusatia R1a1 prevails but there is also a large number of I2a1b. And Lusatia exist in a waist territory west Ukraine, south Poland/Czech and further west.

    I do not know if ever it will be impossible to know the number of I2a1b in Poland. We know one - this haplogroup exist here. We have only 2 thousand examples of random people who paid for it.
    There was no nation called "Celto-Germans". "Germans" as a nation and as a "german language" did not exist until 16th century "AD". There were only goths. quote: " learn it from slavic version of Bible " about which "source" in your Babble, sorry Bible are you talking about, Pentateuch(Torah / Leningrad Codex), written in 1009 AD?

    Well sorry, i did not find any "celto germans" in any bible and less about any celto-germans. Regards to the "Bible" itself are Slavs described as "Magog" and as a "biggest enemy" to "god" and "chosen people"... Even this word (Magog) was perverted and invented in 11th century "AD" in the "new Jerusalem" or better said Byzantium, from the word Mogol (in old Greek means "Great" and has 0 to do with Chinese ("Mongolian") languages) where Sanhedrin collected and wrote the 1. version of the Old Testament, which became the "oldest Book on this planet" and a "book of all books". The Russian Tartarian Golden Orda from a territory called Mogol Tartaria, which has 0 to do with current Chinese nomads called "Mongols" and originally meant "Mega" (Magna, Mogochny, "great"), became the biggest treat to Yahwistic byzantium and Roman "empire"... and consequently called "Mongolian" and "barbaric".

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    I laugh so hard when somebody comes to me and starts this ideological and occult religious (Jahvistic & Christian) propaganda about "Christian invention of Slavic language in 7th century AD... How primitive this person can be... :)
    Even the idiotic quotation of the word Slavic as "Slavic" is really annoying. Mose of these people spread their slavophobic ideology, some of them even try to claim Russian, Ukrainian lands as "Hungarian, German", etc...
    Well they've tried but failed miserably in WW2, when they were sent home from where they came from... So much about claiming Slavic lands as "celto-german".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    There was no nation called "Celto-Germans". "Germans" as a nation and as a "german language" did not exist until 16th century "AD". There were only goths. quote: " learn it from slavic version of Bible " about which "source" in your Babble, sorry Bible are you talking about, Pentateuch(Torah / Leningrad Codex), written in 1009 AD?

    Well sorry, i did not find any "celto germans" in any bible and less about any celto-germans. Regards to the "Bible" itself are Slavs described as "Magog" and as a "biggest enemy" to "god" and "chosen people"... Even this word (Magog) was perverted and invented in 11th century "AD" in the "new Jerusalem" or better said Byzantium, from the word Mogol (in old Greek means "Great" and has 0 to do with Chinese ("Mongolian") languages) where Sanhedrin collected and wrote the 1. version of the Old Testament, which became the "oldest Book on this planet" and a "book of all books". The Russian Tartarian Golden Orda from a territory called Mogol Tartaria, which has 0 to do with current Chinese nomads called "Mongols" and originally meant "Mega" (Magna, Mogochny, "great"), became the biggest treat to Yahwistic byzantium and Roman "empire"... and consequently called "Mongolian" and "barbaric".
    Do You ever have seen typical Russian? Do you ever speak in russian with Yakut, Buritat or Karelian? They are proud nations, but not slavic. What means "moloko" - milk in this ugro-slavic language? - nothing. What means mleko (in polish, czechs, or slovenian)? mLEKo ma (to have) LEK (medicine).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    I laugh so hard when somebody comes to me and starts this ideological and occult religious (Jahvistic & Christian) propaganda about "Christian invention of Slavic language in 7th century AD... How primitive this person can be... :)
    Even the idiotic quotation of the word Slavic as "Slavic" is really annoying. Mose of these people spread their slavophobic ideology, some of them even try to claim Russian, Ukrainian lands as "Hungarian, German", etc...
    Well they've tried but failed miserably in WW2, when they were sent home from where they came from... So much about claiming Slavic lands as "celto-german".
    Slavic language existed and exist in ex-Yugoslavia people. As portugese language exist.... in Portugal. If in Angola speak portuguese language, are this proud Africans portuguese people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vandalorum View Post
    Slavs speak something like todays serbian/croatian language. it existed. But Poles (mix of Balts, Dacians - Sarmatians, Celto-Germans and Normans) learn it from slavic version of Bible. And here lived and still live real Slavic people with I2a1b. White Serbia and White Croatia existed in south of Poland, west Ukraine, Bohemia. Czech language in my opinion is closer to serbian or croatian than to polish. Polish languages grows on ruthenian language - east "slavic", Polabian language was west slavic and extincted.
    Pay attention that in Łużyce / Lusatia R1a1 prevails but there is also a large number of I2a1b. And Lusatia exist in a waist territory west Ukraine, south Poland/Czech and further west.

    I do not know if ever it will be impossible to know the number of I2a1b in Poland. We know one - this haplogroup exist here. We have only 2 thousand examples of random people who paid for it.
    It is normal for languages to borrow words from neighbours, and some words from local substratum. You can observe in almost every country.

    There is no evidence that I2a1b was involved with proto Slavic.

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