Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: Greatest Spanish contribution(s) to the world ? OFFTOPIC about fascism

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    Post Greatest Spanish contribution(s) to the world ? OFFTOPIC about fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Canek View Post
    reinaert is right. spaniards are just getting what they deserve for their historical ties with fascism.
    No idiot!

    The Spanish government is fascist.
    The Spanish king is a fascist to the bone.

    The Spanish people is suffering from those criminals.
    It's time to get the fascist regime out of order.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post

    Spain has never been a fascist state, ignorant.
    A lie Wilhelm.
    And you know that.

    The Spanish state is a fascist one, from the moment Franco took over the power. Spain will only be able to become a free country if they abolish the past in becoming a republic again.

    We are fighting the same struggle in The Netherlands.
    The Royal family in Holland are also warmongers and parasites.
    The father of our Queen was a member of the German SS.
    The queen to be Máxima Zorreguieta is the daughter of an Argentinian member of the fascist government under Galtiery.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-09
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,661

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    A lie Wilhelm.
    And you know that.

    The Spanish state is a fascist one, from the moment Franco took over the power. Spain will only be able to become a free country if they abolish the past in becoming a republic again.

    We are fighting the same struggle in The Netherlands.
    The Royal family in Holland are also warmongers and parasites.
    Only Italy has been a fascist state, and btw they killed far less people than several modern countries, included the USA

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Only Italy has been a fascist state, and btw they killed far less people than several modern countries, included the USA
    Wake up lad!

  5. #5
    Viscount Carlitos's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-09-10
    Location
    Occident.
    Posts
    857

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b1a3 V22+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c

    Ethnic group
    Ethnic group of those who are going to die.
    Country: Spain



    "The Spanish state is totalitarian? New. I think they are totalitarian nazionale regionalist parties that support terrorism, which is the greatest scourge that must fight against the world and countries as well, this is the real fascism today, impose ideas by force of terror.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    14-04-10
    Location
    america's last eden
    Posts
    332


    Ethnic group
    PROUDLY AMERINDIAN!
    Country: Chile



    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    No idiot!
    The Spanish government is fascist.
    The Spanish king is a fascist to the bone.
    The Spanish people is suffering from those criminals.
    It's time to get the fascist regime out of order.
    and who put the spanish politicians and the king in charge?? the spaniards. thus spaniards are fascists. you already said it... you seems to be suffering from bipolar syndrome.

    anyways, a dutch can't give lessons about democracy and talk about spanish fascism, you people are supporting an OPENLY racist politician (geert wilders) which is even worse. the netherlands give me nauseas, you should clean your own house before talking about others.

  7. #7
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    9,497


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Spain has never been a fascist state, ignorant.
    Franco's regime is one of the most typical examples of fascist regimes in Europe, along with Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Originally the term fascism referred to the National Fascist Party of Mussolini, but the term has long since been used to describe all radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideologies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert
    The Spanish government is fascist.
    The Spanish king is a fascist to the bone.
    The Spanish people is suffering from those criminals.
    It's time to get the fascist regime out of order.
    There is absolutely no justification that the modern Spanish government is fascist in any way. FYI, Spain is now ruled by the Socialist Party, the archenemy of Franco's regime.

    It is totally unfair to criticise the modern Spanish state. Spain is in my opinion one of the countries which has improved the most in terms of social, political and economic reforms over the last two or three decades. Spain was still backward by Northern European standard in many respects in the 1970's, but it has mostly caught up with the rest of Western Europe. For example, recycling is a good indicator of a country's human development, and Spanish people are among the most avid recyclers nowadays (along with the Germanic countries, except the UK). Spain has also made tremendous improvements regarding gender equality, economic freedom and democracy. The areas that are still lagging behind are freedom of press and corruption.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    Haha Maciamo..
    There is a story to tell about the Spanish so called socialists.

    Don't open the sewer!

  9. #9
    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-09
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,661

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Franco's regime is one of the most typical examples of fascist regimes in Europe, along with Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Originally the term fascism referred to the National Fascist Party of Mussolini, but the term has long since been used to describe all radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideologies.
    The Franco regime was not fascist, it had nothing to do with Fascism. Even Franco stated clear that they were not fascist.

    It is totally unfair to criticise the modern Spanish state. Spain is in my opinion one of the countries which has improved the most in terms of social, political and economic reforms over the last two or three decades. Spain was still backward by Northern European standard in many respects in the 1970's, but it has mostly caught up with the rest of Western Europe. For example, recycling is a good indicator of a country's human development, and Spanish people are among the most avid recyclers nowadays (along with the Germanic countries, except the UK). Spain has also made tremendous improvements regarding gender equality, economic freedom and democracy. The areas that are still lagging behind are freedom of press and corruption.
    The HDI of Spain is higher than that of Luxembourg, Austria, or UK, and by the way, Spain didn't receive any help from the Marhall Plan, and we had an autarchy during Franco's regime. So we have built our country by ourselves, unlike Germany or France which have been built by the USA, basically
    Last edited by Wilhelm; 21-03-11 at 04:50.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    11-01-10
    Posts
    66


    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Franco's regime is one of the most typical examples of fascist regimes in Europe, along with Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Originally the term fascism referred to the National Fascist Party of Mussolini, but the term has long since been used to describe all radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideologies.



    There is absolutely no justification that the modern Spanish government is fascist in any way. FYI, Spain is now ruled by the Socialist Party, the archenemy of Franco's regime.

    It is totally unfair to criticise the modern Spanish state. Spain is in my opinion one of the countries which has improved the most in terms of social, political and economic reforms over the last two or three decades. Spain was still backward by Northern European standard in many respects in the 1970's, but it has mostly caught up with the rest of Western Europe. For example, recycling is a good indicator of a country's human development, and Spanish people are among the most avid recyclers nowadays (along with the Germanic countries, except the UK). Spain has also made tremendous improvements regarding gender equality, economic freedom and democracy. The areas that are still lagging behind are freedom of press and corruption.
    The socialist party was almost inexistent during Franco's regime, only the communists made something against it. It was a pro-bolshevik party till the arrival of democracy, because european socialdemocracy reorganized them to face the communist party, wich was the best positioned leftist party in Spain.

    Franco's dictatorship had fascist ticks till the 50's, but was an authoritarian conservative regime that hated revolutionary processes. Fascists are revolutionary and anti-conservative, are socialists and nationalists. Most admirated country by Franco was UK, not Germany or Italy.

    As an anechdote, the first contacts the "republicans" (they called themselves reds) had to get military help were with fascist Italy and nazi Germany, while the rebels did it with the brittish. The military help that fascist regimes gave to the rebels was due to the contacts that falangists (true and only fascists among the rebels) had with german and italian delegates.

  11. #11
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    9,497


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    The Franco regime was not fascist, it had nothing to do with Fascism. Even Franco stated clear that they were not fascist.
    Believe what you want. There is clearly no point arguing with you (or many other Spanish members on this forum).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    The HDI of Spain is higher than that of Luxembourg, Austria, or UK, and by the way, Spain didn't receive any help from the Marhall Plan, and we had an autarchy during Franco's regime. So we have built our country by ourselves, unlike Germany or France which have been built by the USA, basically
    Are you delusional enough to think that any country nowadays can build its economy all by itself ? Even China would still be underdeveloped if it hadn't open up and accepted help (e.g. foreign investment and the conditions that come with it) from other nations, especially the USA.

    Spain is a lot like Ireland. They were two of the poorest and most socially and politically backward nations in Europe in the mid 20th century, but both benefited hugely from foreign investments. The investments came in very different shapes though. Ireland was chosen as the European HQ for most of the US high-tech companies. In Spain money flew mainly into real estate and tourism. After Franco's death, big corporations from Northern Europe and America expanded their businesses in various sectors in Spain. That's how all the foreign investments came more or less at once, creating an economic boom.

    The problem with both Spain and Ireland is that a lot of the new wealth was actually generated by foreign companies or artificially created through real estate speculation. That's why both countries were badly hit by the financial crisis in 2007-8.

    In comparison countries like France or Germany suffered little from the crisis, because they were more self-standing. Germany even managed the feat to lower its unemployment and increase its exports the year following the world market collapse. In other words, countries that were badly hit by the crisis were those that were caught up in a speculative bubble. The financial crisis was a natural market re-adjustment.

  12. #12
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    9,497


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Segia View Post
    The socialist party was almost inexistent during Franco's regime, only the communists made something against it. It was a pro-bolshevik party till the arrival of democracy, because european socialdemocracy reorganized them to face the communist party, wich was the best positioned leftist party in Spain.
    There was no clear distinction between "socialist" and "communist" at the time. Lenin and the Bolsheviks used both terms to refer to their ideology. The USSR stands for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Most Eastern Europeans will tell you that their country was not communist from 1945 to 1990 but "socialist" (while true communism was, in their eyes, in countries like China or North Korea).

    The distinction between "communism" and "socialism" was used mostly by Western Europeans so that they could have leftist (socialist) parties without being associated with the USSR. France still has communist and socialist parties nowadays, and the distinction is not always as clear-cut as people think. The main distinction used to be that communists had sympathies for the USSR. But 21 years after its collapse and the general discredit of the communist system, one can wonder what still distinguish the two denominations.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    11-01-10
    Posts
    66


    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    There was no clear distinction between "socialist" and "communist" at the time. Lenin and the Bolsheviks used both terms to refer to their ideology. The USSR stands for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Most Eastern Europeans will tell you that their country was not communist from 1945 to 1990 but "socialist" (while true communism was, in their eyes, in countries like China or North Korea).

    The distinction between "communism" and "socialism" was used mostly by Western Europeans so that they could have leftist (socialist) parties without being associated with the USSR. France still has communist and socialist parties nowadays, and the distinction is not always as clear-cut as people think. The main distinction used to be that communists had sympathies for the USSR. But 21 years after its collapse and the general discredit of the communist system, one can wonder what still distinguish the two denominations.
    Here, since the 70's, socialist means "socialdemocrat" while communist means "real socialist". However, the born of communist parties comes from the III International, when the radical revolutionary socialists considered that socialist parties had betrayed the principle of internationalism by giving support to national governments during the Great War. Fascism is equally a socialist offshot, but in this case embracing nationalism.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-09
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,661

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Believe what you want. There is clearly no point arguing with you (or many other Spanish members on this forum).
    Well, it's not my problem if people don't know the most basic facts. Fascism was a revolutionary, anti-liberal movement, francoism was the contrary, anti-revolutionary and even they killed facists from their own party, real fascists (here called National-Syndicalists, like Ledesma or Hedilla) because they wanted secretely their own revolution against Franco, unlike franoists who wanted to maintain the old status of pre-Republic
    Are you delusional enough to think that any country nowadays can build its economy all by itself ? Even China would still be underdeveloped if it hadn't open up and accepted help (e.g. foreign investment and the conditions that come with it) from other nations, especially the USA.
    I wasn't talk about nowadays, I was talking about post-WWII, and in the case of Spain also post-Civil War. Yes, all by ourselves. We had an autarchy. We were not part of the Marshall Plan. Obviously in the globalized world of today this would be imposible. An autarchy would be imposible.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    Well well.. There are 2 main parameters you can use in politics.
    1 The degree of personal freedom.
    2 The degree of economic freedom.

    In both fascism/falangism and national socialism personal freedom is zero.
    They are authoritarian.

    The difference between Gemany and Spain/Italy was the Germans supported the main industries, and in Spain and Italy the landowners had a lot of influence.

    Fascism is a general term for a system that is conservative, and in the same time authoritarian. And that was the case with the Franco junta also.

    The Spanish people was oppressed in a very rigid system.
    I once read a book about a young man who wanted to become an army officer, and his mother tells him a real man wears his dick on the left side in his pants.
    Ridiculous. How can people think freely, if they were brainwashed all those years.

    Spain, according to many reactions on this forum, still seems to be a cultural island.
    The same problem like the British have.

    In my personal experience people from Portugal are more seafaring, and far more relaxed.
    They know much more of what is happening in the world.
    At least Portugal had a peaceful revolution, in Spain Franco turned back the clock a hundred years or so.

    The harder you stick your heels in the sand, the more resistance you get from other Europeans.

    BTW.. The Marshall plan was bogus. The Dutch Navy and Merchant shipping lost more ships and crews in favor of the Allied Forces in World War 2 then the Marshall plan could pay back.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Canek View Post
    and who put the spanish politicians and the king in charge?? the spaniards. thus spaniards are fascists. you already said it... you seems to be suffering from bipolar syndrome.
    anyways, a dutch can't give lessons about democracy and talk about spanish fascism, you people are supporting an OPENLY racist politician (geert wilders) which is even worse. the netherlands give me nauseas, you should clean your own house before talking about others.
    Haha.. I already told you Geert Wilders is an idiot.

    And because you're from Chile..
    You surely know many people from Chile got to The Netherlands when Allende was killed. And they live with us until today.
    In the same time many idiots in Chile still support the Pinochet era.
    How fascist can a country be.
    So, pot kettle black.

    And stop trolling!

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    And another filthy matter in Spanish history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Tejero

    It's not very difficult to find new views on the things that happened in 1981.

    The storming of the Spanish parliament was staged.
    It was a piece of theater, to make Juan Carlos the hero of the country.
    But he also orchestrated the entire operation, to derail the socialists.

    It was a falangist dirty trick to restore the old order.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Cambrius (The Red)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    27-06-09
    Posts
    2,640

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b (RL-21*)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3

    Ethnic group
    Gallaecian Celtic
    Country: USA - Ohio



    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    Haha.. I already told you Geert Wilders is an idiot.
    And because you're from Chile..
    You surely know many people from Chile got to The Netherlands when Allende was killed. And they live with us until today.
    In the same time many idiots in Chile still support the Pinochet era.
    How fascist can a country be.
    So, pot kettle black.
    And stop trolling!
    He thinks you're bipolar!? Interesting, given his odd behavior on this forum.

  19. #19
    Great Adventurer sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,251

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    Well well.. There are 2 main parameters you can use in politics.
    1 The degree of personal freedom.
    2 The degree of economic freedom.
    Interesting... I rarely see leftists like yourself use the Nolan Chart system of political ideology classification, because it positions leftists as "anti-freedom" in a sense (economic). Although I agree with your analysis regarding it.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Interesting... I rarely see leftists like yourself use the Nolan Chart system of political ideology classification, because it positions leftists as "anti-freedom" in a sense (economic). Although I agree with your analysis regarding it.
    I have no problem with that.
    I agree that socialism is for 100% personal freedom, but because all people in the world have to share things, I think we should bring economic freedom to 50%.

    Capitalism destroys more than what it offers.

  21. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    14-04-10
    Location
    america's last eden
    Posts
    332


    Ethnic group
    PROUDLY AMERINDIAN!
    Country: Chile



    and i already told you that ALL fascists are idiots, troll reinaert (don't you know how to read?)... but not all fascists idiots have the support geert wilders has from the dutch people... he is very near to be prime minister... that should give you a clue about how repugnant and fascist the netherlands is. you are trying to minimize what is happening in your country... how disgusting.

    you should clean your own house before trying to give lessons to other fascists states as spain

    and i am not chilean, i just feel sympathy for that country. the great part of the chileans prosecuted by pinochet's regime went to life to sweden, not to your fascist country

    you are the only troll in here, insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    14-04-10
    Location
    america's last eden
    Posts
    332


    Ethnic group
    PROUDLY AMERINDIAN!
    Country: Chile



    also, the future queen of the netherlands is maxima zorreguieta, the daughter of an argentinian politician who colaborated actively with the militars who killed and tortured thousands of innocent argentinians during Videla's regime... and dutch people adore this women... how disgusting...

  23. #23
    Great Adventurer sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,251

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    I have no problem with that.
    I agree that socialism is for 100% personal freedom, but because all people in the world have to share things, I think we should bring economic freedom to 50%.
    If we want to be strict about our definitions, I don't think we can say that socialism=100% for personal freedom. I think that socialism can take a variety of forms, including those who do not support significant personal freedoms at all. Rather, we see a large degree of support for personal freedoms among most socialists, because they are most commonly social democrats, who tend to favor personal freedom, while being more hesitant to grant economic freedom. However, I think "liberalism" necessitates a large degree of support for personal freedom, even though the support for economic freedom varies amongst different liberal ideologies. As I've said before, I find myself to be rather a right-wing liberal, that is, about 100% on the personal freedom side, and about 95% on the economic freedom side.

    Getting back to fascism, it undoubtedly approaches 0% in personal freedom on the Nolan Chart. Where it is on economic freedom is more variable depending on the kind of fascism, similar to how it is difficult to place liberals on the economic freedom scale.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    13-12-10
    Location
    Brabant
    Age
    68
    Posts
    768

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a2* SNP P312

    Ethnic group
    Proto Celtic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Canek View Post
    also, the future queen of the netherlands is maxima zorreguieta, the daughter of an argentinian politician who colaborated actively with the militars who killed and tortured thousands of innocent argentinians during Videla's regime... and dutch people adore this women... how disgusting...
    No we don't.
    I am in favor of a republic.

    We all know about Zorreguita.

    But you seem to like trolling.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    14-04-10
    Location
    america's last eden
    Posts
    332


    Ethnic group
    PROUDLY AMERINDIAN!
    Country: Chile



    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    No we don't.
    I am in favor of a republic.
    We all know about Zorreguita.
    But you seem to like trolling.
    yes, you do... you can see thousands of people on the street cheering them in all their public appareances.

    i'm simply stating some facts, you're the only troll here, insulting anyone who doesn't agree you. troll.

    i am glad to hear that you are in favor of a republic though

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Greatest Swiss contribution(s) to the world ?
    By Maciamo in forum European Culture & History
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-05-18, 18:02
  2. Greatest Spanish contribution(s) to the world ?
    By Maciamo in forum European Culture & History
    Replies: 218
    Last Post: 10-01-18, 15:05
  3. Greatest Belgian contribution to the world OFFTOPIC about Brabant
    By Reinaert in forum European Culture & History
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 17-01-12, 22:41
  4. Greatest Spanish contribution(s) to the world ? OFFTOPIC @ ETA
    By Cambrius (The Red) in forum Chit-Chat
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 19-03-11, 20:29
  5. Replies: 31
    Last Post: 16-03-11, 00:52

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •