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Thread: The concep of a "mediterranean" race/mediterranean genetics

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    Passione Mediterranea julia90's Avatar
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    The concep of a "mediterranean" race/mediterranean genetics



    Mediterranean race (physical anthropometric concept)

    The Mediterranean race was one of the three sub-categories into which the Caucasian race and the people of Europe were divided by anthropologists in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, following the publication of William Z. Ripley's book "The Races of Europe" (1899). The others were Nordic and Alpine.
    The Mediterranean race was thought to be prevalent in southern Europe, parts of Eastern Europe, most of North Africa, Northeast Africa, West Asia and parts of South Asia, Parts of Wales, Southern Scotland,[1] as well as parts of southwestern Ireland and western Great Britain,[2] and was characterized by moderate to short stature, long (dolichocephalic) or moderate (mesocephalic) skull, aquiline nose, dark hair, dark eyes and olive complexion.

    These differentiations occurred following long-standing claims about the alleged differences between the Nordic and the Mediterranean people. Such debates arose from responses to ancient writers who had commented on differences between northern and southern Europeans. For the Greeks and Romans, Germanic and Celtic peoples were often stereotyped as wild red haired barbarians. Pseudo-Aristotle argued that the Greeks were an ideal race because they possessed a medium skin-tone, in contrast to pale northerners and dark southerners. However Tacitus argued that the Germanic tribes were an "unmixed" people, who had preserved their ancient language and race.[3] By the nineteenth century long-standing cultural and religious differences between Protestant northern Europe and the Catholic south were being reinterpreted in racial terms.[4]

    n the nineteenth century the division of humanity into distinct races became a matter for scientific debate. In 1870, Thomas Huxley argued that there were four basic racial categories (Xanthocroic, Mongoloid, Australioid and Negroid). The Xanthocroic race were the "fair whites" of north and Central Europe. According to Huxley,
    On the south and west this type comes into contact and mixes with the "Melanochroi," or "dark whites"...In these regions are found, more or less mixed with Xanthochroi and Mongoloids, and extending to a greater or less distance into the conterminous Xanthochroic, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Australioid areas, the men whom I have termed Melanochroi, or dark whites. Under its best form this type is exhibited by many Irishmen, Welshmen, and Bretons, by Spaniards, South Italians, Greeks, South Slavs, Armenians, Arabs, and high-caste Brahmins...I am much disposed to think that the Melanochroi are the result of an intermixture between the Xanthochroi and the Australioids. It is to the Xanthochroi and Melanochroi, taken together, that the absurd denomination of "Caucasian" is usually applied.[5]
    By the late nineteenth century Huxley's Xanthocroic group had been redefined as the "Nordic" race, while his Melanochroi became the Mediterranean race.
    William Z. Ripley The Races of Europe (1899) [6] created a tripartite model that was later popularised by Madison Grant. It divided Europeans into three main subcategories: Teutonic, Alpine and Mediterranean.

    Germany, Britain and the USA, it became common for white supremacists to promote the merits of the blond, blue-eyed Nordic race as the most advanced of human population groups: the "master race". Southern/Eastern Europeans were deemed to be inferior, an argument that dated back to Arthur de Gobineau's claims that racial mixing was responsible for the decline of the Roman Empire.[8] However, in southern Europe itself alternative models were developed which stressed the merits of Mediterranean peoples, drawing on established traditions dating from ancient and Renaissance claims about the superiority of civilization in the south. Some of these arguments were taken up by African-American writers to counter the arguments of Nordicists who considered any deviation from "pure" whiteness to be a taint.
    The fact that Mediterranean peoples were responsible for the most important of ancient western civilizations was a problem for the promoters of Nordic superiority. Giuseppe Sergi's much-debated book The Mediterranean Race (1901) argued that the Mediterranean race had in fact originated in Africa, probably in the Sahara region, and that it also included a number of dark-skinned peoples from the African continent, such as Ethiopians and Somalis. Sergi added that the Mediterranean race "in its external characters is a brown human variety, neither white nor negroid, but pure in its elements, that is to say not a product of the mixture of Whites with Negroes or negroid peoples."[9] In his book The Mediterranean Race, Sergi also hypothesized that the Mediterranean, the African and the Nordic races all originated from an original Eurafrican species.[10][11] According to Sergi, the Mediterranean race was the "greatest race of the world" and was singularly responsible for the most accomplished civilizations of ancient times, including those of Mesopotamia, Persia, Egypt, India, Carthage, Greece and Rome. To Sergi, the Semites were a branch of the Eurafricans who were closely related to the Mediterraneans.[12]
    C. G. Seligman also stated that "it must, I think, be recognized that the Mediterranean race has actually more achievement to its credit than any other, since it is responsible for by far the greater part of Mediterranean civilization, certainly before 1000 B.C. (and probably much later), and so shaped not only the Aegean cultures, but those of Western as well as the greater part of Eastern Mediterranean lands, while the culture of their near relatives, the Hamitic pre-dynastic Egyptians, formed the basis of that of Egypt."[13]
    In the USA, the idea that the Mediterranean race included certain populations on the African continent was taken up in the early twentieth century by African-American writers such as W. E. B. Du Bois, who used it to attack white supremacist ideas about racial "purity". Such publications as the Journal of Negro History stressed the cross-fertilization of cultures between Africa and Europe, and adopted Sergi's view that the "civilizing" race had originated in Africa itself.[14]
    H.G. Wells referred to the Mediterranean race as the Iberian race.[15]

    According to C. S. Coon, typically marked Mediterranean features include skin color ranging "from pink or peaches-and-cream to a light brown", a relatively prominent and aquiline nose, considerable body hair, and dark brown to black hair.[16]
    According to Renato Biasutti: "Skin color 'matte'-white or brunet-white, chestnut or dark chestnut eyes and hair, not excessive pilosity; medium-low stature (162), body of moderately longilinear forms; dolichomorphic skull (78) with rounded occiput; oval face; leptorrhine nose (68) with straight spine, horizontal or inclined downwards base of the septum; large open eyes."[17]

    The Mediterranean race was divided into various subtypes by different authors, such as "Mediterranean proper"/Gracile Mediterranean"/"Ibero-Insular", "West Mediterranean", "Atlantid"/"Atlanto-Mediterranean", "Pontic"/"East Mediterranean", "Berberid", and sometimes the "Orientalid" race was included too, which referred to the Arabid and Iranid races.

    Later in the 20th century the concept of a distinctive Mediterranean race was still considered useful by theorists such as Earnest Hooton in Up From the Ape (1931) and Carleton S. Coon in his revised edition of Ripley's Races of Europe (1939). These writers thought the Nordic race was the northern variety of Mediterraneans that lost pigmentation through natural selection due to the environment.
    Hooton argued that even a skilled anthropologist would have a difficult time separating a Nordic from Mediterranean skeleton. He thought a destabilized blend of the two existed mostly in Britain that he labeled "Nordic-Mediterranean", with hazel eyes (rather than pure brown), dark hair color (mainly dark brown) and dolichocephalic skull.
    According to Carleton Coon the "homeland and cradle" of the Mediterranean race is in North Africa and Southwest Asia, in the area from Morocco to Afghanistan.[18] Coon argued that smaller Mediterraneans traveled by land from the Mediterranean basin north into Europe in the Mesolithic era. Taller Mediterraneans (Atlanto-Mediterraneans) were Neolithic seafarers who sailed in reed-type boats and colonized the Mediterranean basin from a Near Eastern origin. He argued that they also colonized Britain where their descendants may be seen today, characterized by dark brown hair, dark eyes and robust features. He stressed the central role of the Mediterraneans in his works, claiming "The Mediterraneans occupy the center of the stage; their areas of greatest concentration are precisely those where civilization is the oldest. This is to be expected, since it was they who produced it and it, in a sense, that produced them".[18]
    After the 1960s the concept of an exact Mediterranean race fell out of favor, though the distinctive features of Mediterranean populations continued to be recognized

  2. #2
    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    From a genetic point of view there is no such thnig as mediterranean race. The iberians cluster with french, basques and north-italians. There is more genetic affinity between iberians and belgians than with greeks. Also, the distribution of haplogroups is vastly different from Iberia to other parts of the mediterranean.

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    Passione Mediterranea julia90's Avatar
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    Europe is thought to have been colonized by northwest bound migrants from Central Asia and the Middle East.



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    Passione Mediterranea julia90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    From a genetic point of view there is no such thnig as mediterranean race. The iberians cluster with french, basques and north-italians. There is more genetic affinity between iberians and belgians than with greeks. Also, the distribution of haplogroups is vastly different from Iberia to other parts of the mediterranean.
    i tend to agree with what you have said, for central and northern spain. however southern spain (the third of spain that is Iberian) has mediterranean affinities.
    as the ancient iberians were descriped by classical autors as short, dark haired, different from the other people (celts) who inhabitated central and northern iberia

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    Passione Mediterranea julia90's Avatar
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    here some useful maps about migrations in europe from wester asia-middle east





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    I do not think that the Celts who came into Spain were of 1.90 cm, blond and blue eyes, because there are no phenotypic differences between southern and northern Spain, do not move to Spain's beliefs about the south of Italy, it does not work, the rest of Spanish Andalusia defends death, keep in mind that it took them 8 centuries to conquer us and love us.

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    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    i tend to agree with what you have said, for central and northern spain. however southern spain (the third of spain that is Iberian) has mediterranean affinities.
    as the ancient iberians were descriped by classical autors as short, dark haired, different from the other people (celts) who inhabitated central and northern iberia
    What ? Andalusians are genetically the same as the rest of Spaniards. In fact, the sample of spaniards of the Behar et al. study included only Andalusians and Catalans, and they clustered together, between France and North-Italians. That Behar sample is the one used also by the Dodecad and Eurogenese projects. But see also this intra-spanish study :



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    Julia please do not move to Spain, their fears and insecurities over southern Italy.

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    In this selection of Spanish personalities I think I see the Iberians authentic, I can be wrong, who knows.


    Catalu˝a

    Valencia

    Catalu˝a


    Madrid.


    Madrid


    Extremadura.


    AndalucÝa.

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    i think it's safe to say that spain saw a process of great intermixing with its people. So in every spaniard there is a drop of iberian and celt. And the ancient division on iberian celt doesn't exist anymore. However besides the question on the origins of iberians, i think the mediterranean genes of south europeans comes from the fertile crescent. Has anyone some info on neolitic place of origin?

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    Passione Mediterranea julia90's Avatar
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    for example it is known that italy was before the entering of italic tribes, inhabitated in a stable manner from only neolitic people who were the first to arrive. It s logical to say that med look on italians derives from this fist inhabitants.

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    i think italic tribes weren't of med stock. First because they entered italy fron north east (veneto friuli), before they were stantiated in pannonia near the celts (language affinities due to arial territorial contact). So they were one of those people that came in europe not from the south east

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I just stumbled over this sort of classification of alleged European races very recently. Not that I've never heard of it before, but I was kinda surprized to find so much enthusiasm for it on the 21. century internet.

    For my part I have to say that I don't give much credit to it, although I have to admit it can turn into some kind of fun thing to classify people or look at distributions. But the craziest thing is when people start to link certain phenotypes with character traits, or even give some cultural advantages or disadvantages to them.

    When you look at the spread of civilization of Europe, it becomes quite clear that it is highly linked to trade routes, especially water routes. Living at the river, and even more at the sea, has enormous advantages in many aspects: it is an insurance against famine and epidemics (fishing and fresh water), it is a trade route to other peoples, supporting economy, leading to wealth and giving more inspiration for culture, arts and science.

    So when the people of the Middle East (whose civilzation arouse around rivers!!) entered the Mediterranean Sea, it was clear that civilization will spread around those Mediterranean coastlines first and created a new cradle of culture and science. [--> that's where the idea got started the Mediterranean race is superior to all the others]

    Despite the fact that during the Middle Ages research of natural sciences got neglected, some technologies like seafaring/navigation improved. Hanseatic cities arouse around the North and Baltic sea, slowly catching up to Mediterranean cities in terms of trade and science. Later on, cities and regions bordering the Atlantic Ocean were in advantage over Mediterranean cities, as they were closer to the "New World" and trade with regions vast overseas became more lucrative over trade with the Middle East. Western Europe and North Europe became suddenly richer than the South. [--> that's where the idea got started the Nordic and/or the Atlantic race is superior to all the others]

    The Alpine region was always in disadvance towards other regions of Europe. No access to the sea, and uncomfortable trade routes through the vast mountain ranges. That's why this region wasn't really affected by outside influences, subsequently through lack of inspiration not producing much arts and science either. [--> that's where the idea got started the Alpinoid race is a little phlegmatic and narrow-minded]

    Well, today Austria, Switzerland, Southern Germany, Eastern France and Northern Italy combined would provide the richest and most prosperous region of Europe, as well as leaders in scientific technology. Despite not living at the sea. Why?? Because they don't need water routes: they have highways, trains, planes and online-banking

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    i agree with mzungu mchagga, but there are clines of genes that are more present in certain areas, and they define also physical pheatures.

    Europe without the region of the alpine chain would be poorer, with heavy industrialization only in england, ruhr, scandinavia and catalonia.
    althought on the italian side of the alpine chain people are wealthy not because of industrializations and entreprises, but for the third sector and social right policies.
    also people who live in the alps are loyal, honest, and great workers, this is true for all the people who lives there (germans, french, italians, austrians, etc..), because life in the mountain is not easy, in the past people lived on the valley between the mountains and a certain spirit of protection among the people of the valley is what makes this people with balls, mussolini said that the hardest workers and loyal people were the italians who lived in the alps.

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    History shows that no worker is more than anyone and in the case of Spain, the industrial supremacy of certain regions, Barcelona, Euskadi, Madrid serving and protectionist policies to the detriment of other regions that were sentenced to farming. Protections remain today as the privileges of Navarra, the whole face and is the main reason for the existence of nazionale regionalist who want to maintain state privileges, and I think that times have changed and those privileges to certain regions have been obsolete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlitos View Post
    In this selection of Spanish personalities I think I see the Iberians authentic, I can be wrong, who knows.


    Catalu´┐Ża

    Valencia

    Catalu´┐Ża


    Madrid.


    Madrid


    Extremadura.


    Andaluc´┐Ża.
    They fit in the representative range for Spaniards (and Portuguese), but that range includes some other types as well, not shown in your photo groupings.
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 22-03-11 at 18:12.

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    ^^
    I do not understand what he has done 1 / 2 ?

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    i don't know why europeans are so interested in making racial clasifications (esp certain countries )... the world population is destined to interbreed more and more, just like neanderthals interbreed with other humans in the past. some day all these useless racial clasifications will be obsolete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    i think it's safe to say that spain saw a process of great intermixing with its people. So in every spaniard there is a drop of iberian and celt. And the ancient division on iberian celt doesn't exist anymore. However besides the question on the origins of iberians, i think the mediterranean genes of south europeans comes from the fertile crescent. Has anyone some info on neolitic place of origin?
    The majority of Iberians trend Paleolithic.

    It's quite difficult to define the Celts genetically (although geneticists continue to try) since they were not heterogeneous. That said, some regions of Spain and Portugal presently have a higher level of Celticity than others - North, Northwest and Central West for certain. Celticity is defined more by cultural practices...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canek View Post
    i don't know why europeans are so interested in making racial clasifications (esp certain countries )... the world population is destined to interbreed more and more, just like neanderthals interbreed with other humans in the past. some day all these useless racial clasifications will be obsolete.
    It is interesting, fun and meet new people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canek View Post
    i don't know why europeans are so interested in making racial clasifications (esp certain countries )... the world population is destined to interbreed more and more, just like neanderthals interbreed with other humans in the past. some day all these useless racial clasifications will be obsolete.
    The truth is that people are continuing to marry within their own race in great part, despite the high level of interracial semiotics being projected by mass media. I doubt there will ever be massive racial interbreeding as the primal mind gravitates towards what is most familiar corporeally. In social psychological research, participants tend to perceive physical characteristics similar to theirs more favorably than those that are dissimilar. The notion of race will always be with us, in one form or another. Unfortunately, there will always be "The Other".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canek View Post
    i don't know why europeans are so interested in making racial clasifications (esp certain countries )... the world population is destined to interbreed more and more, just like neanderthals interbreed with other humans in the past. some day all these useless racial clasifications will be obsolete.
    That is a bit of a generalisation, SOME are interested in making racial classifications but not ALL. However, I think you will find those with the inherent need to classify all and sundry wherever you go, not just Europe.

    I agree with the rest of your comment though, people have done and will continue to intermarry and breed. At the basic level, people are people the world over and ethnicity, culture etc is merely a window dressing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    i think it's safe to say that spain saw a process of great intermixing with its people. So in every spaniard there is a drop of iberian and celt. And the ancient division on iberian celt doesn't exist anymore. However besides the question on the origins of iberians, i think the mediterranean genes of south europeans comes from the fertile crescent. Has anyone some info on neolitic place of origin?
    Palaeolithic contribution in Europe, Andalusia has the most after Sardinia :


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    Celts were R1b like Italics. The Mediterranean component is related to I2 imo (Sardinian, Basque, Iberian, Paleolithic). J2 is more dinarid. Iberia is a mix of R1b (paternal line predominally) and I2 (maternal), with other minimal influences.

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    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triskel View Post
    Celts were R1b like Italics. The Mediterranean component is related to I2 imo (Sardinian, Basque, Iberian, Paleolithic). J2 is more dinarid. Iberia is a mix of R1b (paternal line predominally) and I2 (maternal), with other minimal influences.
    The R1b distribution follows an Western pattern, there is not such thing as mediterranean :


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