Is U2e1a

[St Delcambre]

I just received my results from 23andme.com and I'm a bit confused about my maternal Haplogroup. Is U2e1a European? It says it's one of the oldest in Europe but that it's most common and originated in Southeast Asia. I see U2 is nearly absent in Europe on Maciamo's mtdna frequency chart. Also, is there any explanation or theories as to why it seems to be so much noticeably more common in Denmark than other European nations? Any help or information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[sparkey]

Stepping down the subclades, we can look at it like this:

U = very ancient (60,000 year-old) haplogroup, distributed lots of places
U2 = commonly Southeast Asian, but also very old so some subclades are distributed elsewhere
U2e = the U2 subclade that happens to be found in Europe (but not just Europe either--instances appear in Georgia, for example)

The U2e in Europe appears to have an affinity for the north of the continent in general, including Germanic peoples, Slavic peoples, and Uralic peoples. It has been postulated to have an affinity with Y-DNA R1a, which would suggest Indo-European origins for much (most? all?) of the U2e in Europe. See: Source. Also see: FTDNA U2 Project.

[Angela]

I don't have time to address this in depth right now, but I have researched this mtdna extensively, and I'm not in total agreement with this analysis (or with Maciamo's either for that matter).

Just for starters, the closest matching sequence to the Kostenki sample(the oldest mtdna in Europe) is in Italy, and in an area with virtually no R1a. The highest percentages in Europe are always in extremely isolated communities, with low diversity of mtdna lineages (Cres, Hvar, and the Caucasus etc.) where small founding populations and subsequent genetic drift can cause these kinds of spikes. I'm not saying it's not sometimes associated with R1a and steppe peoples;I'm saying it's ancient paleolithic nature means it may have spread long before R even arrived in Europe.

[sparkey]

I don't have time to address this in depth right now, but I have researched this mtdna extensively, and I'm not in total agreement with this analysis (or with Maciamo's either for that matter).

Just for starters, the closest matching sequence to the Kostenki sample(the oldest mtdna in Europe) is in Italy, and in an area with virtually no R1a. The highest percentages in Europe are always in extremely isolated communities, with low diversity of mtdna lineages (Cres, Hvar, and the Caucasus etc.) where small founding populations and subsequent genetic drift can cause these kinds of spikes. I'm not saying it's not sometimes associated with R1a and steppe peoples;I'm saying it's ancient paleolithic nature means it may have spread long before R even arrived in Europe.

You're probably more familiar with U2 than I am then, I'm more familiar with U4, I was just repeating what I've read. I've got a few questions for you, then. The Kostenki sample indicates that U2 was in Russia 30,000 years ago, and you're saying that matching U2 ended up in Italy. Can we postulate that the U2 that ended up in Italy was a "first wave" along with similarly paleolithic mtDNA haplogroups (H, V, U4, U5), and that some U2e came with Indo-European waves later, explaining both the apparently ancient distribution and the apparent correlation with R1a? I can imagine that if it stuck around in Russia for a long time, it would have naturally been absorbed into the Corded Ware expansion as a (small?) component of it. And I think Corded Ware was probably IE.

I think that once again, we're seeing a haplogroup so old and admixed with others, that it was part of multiple migrations, no? That definitely happened with U4.

[Angela]

I just realized that I might have sounded abrupt in my initial post. Sorry, I was pressed for time.

Yes, those are generally the conclusions that I reached, although it took me quite a while to settle on that as the answer.

The answer for the Italian sequence that I mentioned seems to be that it was present in the general area since very ancient times. Perhaps it was present in the Italian refugium and remained.

For many U2e people, it might prove impossible to disentangle the various migrations and population movements involved, at least given the current state of the data.

[Maciamo]

It is still unclear whether haplogroup U2 originated in South Asia (not Southeast Asia !) or around the Pontic-Caspian steppes. Nowadays U2 is most common in India and Pakistan. U2e is the only subclade found at low yet substantial frequencies in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Central Asia and North-West China (Xinjiang), which is basically the area associated with the eastern branch of the Indo-European expansion (Slavic and Indo-Iranian) and Y-DNA haplogroup R1a1a1.

Most geneticists and DNA testing companies will tell you that U2 originated in South Asia because of its modern frequency and the larger diversity of subclades in South Asia. I instead believe that U2 originated in the Indo-European homeland (Pontic-Caspian steppes and/or Caucasus) and reached South Asia when the Aryans conquered the region 3500 years ago (see R1a history). The explanation for the greatest incidence of U2 is South Asia today might be due to a founder effect, i.e a high percentage of U2 women among the Indo-Aryan conquerors. India having always been hugely more populous than Eastern Europe or Central Asia, the number of subclades grew more rapidly there.

In conclusion, U2e1a is a purely Indo-European haplogroup, one of the maternal equivalents of R1a1a1.

[Arthur82]

Sorry... I don’t know how competent you are when confidently writing that the U2 Haplogroup has Darginians (0.3), but doesn’t have Caucasian Avars at all. How to understand this when your “Darginians of Daghestan” is indicated really where the Caucasian Avars live. It is very easy to determine the border, because only Avars (together with closely related Ando-Tsezians) live in Daghestan on the border with Georgia.And yet ... if you look closely at the map, you can easily determine that this haplogroup Mt DNA U2 should far exceed your small percentages, because the color is very thick. If you insist on the fact that the people of Darghins have U2, then in this case, correctly mark them on the map. On your map, it is indicated Cauc. Avars, but not Darginians

[OkieGrandma]

My husband's mtdna is U2e1a1c. The results say it is one of the RAREST subclades so I'm confused: common? Or rare?

[Angela]

My husband's mtdna is U2e1a1c. The results say it is one of the RAREST subclades so I'm confused: common? Or rare?

Your husband's mtDna is European specific.

U2e is widespread but rare all over Europe (in most instances 1-2%), although there is more of it in northern Europe. I, however, am proof it's also found in southern Europe.

Isolated areas might have higher percentages because a "founder" arrived, and then it drifted by chance to those higher levels.

There are a couple of threads on mtDna U2e. Just use the search engine to find them.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

U2 as a whole is an EHG haplogroup basically.

[ewe2]

U2e were some of the most ancient hunter gatherers in Europe with some U5 and was in Europe before H. However the early Neolithic farmers were more numerous and/or wiped out these hunter gatherers.

However U2e came to Europe from the Russian Steppe and some of their U2e relatives remained there. Some of these came to Europe with later Neolithic farmers