What makes you proud of your country?

[Bodin]

Good point, thanks! Glad you've tried some of Georgian dishes. Although in Tabaka Chicken there is no tobacco the name comes from the special pan they use to make that dish

Nice to know , he told me he put tobaco in it , probably joke

 

[Reinaert]

"If you dont respect your nation , you dont respect your clan ..."

This is a false way of thinking.

A country/nation has got nothing to do with a clan.

My province is Brabant, in The Netherlands. <--- Look... Plural!!!!
Means, there are a lot of Netherlands.
Brabant is one of them, and I am proud of Brabant.
The Netherlands as a whole, well, I don't feel sympathy for.

 

[Bodin]

This is a false way of thinking.

A country/nation has got nothing to do with a clan.

My province is Brabant, in The Netherlands. <--- Look... Plural!!!!
Means, there are a lot of Netherlands.
Brabant is one of them, and I am proud of Brabant.
The Netherlands as a whole, well, I don't feel sympathy for.

There is nothing false in it.
Ofcourse nation has to do everything with clan , nation is formed of clans like clans are formed of family , and family of kinmens .
You sound like separatist , why dont you make Brabant a state if you dont feel simpathy for Netherlands ?

 

[Reinaert]

There is nothing false in it.
Ofcourse nation has to do everything with clan , nation is formed of clans like clans are formed of family , and family of kinmens .
You sound like separatist , why dont you make Brabant a state if you dont feel simpathy for Netherlands ?

Well, you sound as a nationalist. A nation is an abstract thing.
Humans live in clans or families by nature.
A nation, state or country is a conception, formed by propaganda in people's minds.
It's an illusion to think they really exist.

Therefore, what you see as a state or nation, exists because sometimes one people uses force to dominate other peoples. Yougoslavia was an example of that. The Soviet Union and the USA also.

So, what I mean is, peoples by nature have feelings for their family or clan, and even their own region, but not for a nation or state.

 

[Bodin]

Well, you sound as a nationalist. A nation is an abstract thing.
Humans live in clans or families by nature.
A nation, state or country is a conception, formed by propaganda in people's minds.
It's an illusion to think they really exist.

Therefore, what you see as a state or nation, exists because sometimes one people uses force to dominate other peoples. Yougoslavia was an example of that. The Soviet Union and the USA also.

So, what I mean is, peoples by nature have feelings for their family or clan, and even their own region, but not for a nation or state.

Ofcourse I am nationalist , and you sound like comunist .They ( Marx und Engels) said family is also apstract thing. State is maybe formed like propaganda ( but propaganda my ancestors died for , so if I dont respect state , I would respect my ancestors sacrifice) , but nation is not propaganda , Serbs come like Serbs on Balkans and they are Serbs untill today . There had to be some sistem , some people need to dominate other it is only natural .Otherwise we are in anarchy and that is the worst thing that could hapen , and probably would lead to destruction of humans .
By nature people have felelings for Family ,Clan , and Nation , like toward Father , Grenfather and Grandgrenfather , but not toward religion - it is just sistem of believes we adopt during lifetime in search for true origine and sence. Thanks for answering. By the way which nation is your Frizian or some of Celtic nations?

 

[Reinaert]

I guess you are a complete moron.
Nationalism is out of date.

Like you say...

some people need to dominate other it is only natural .Otherwise we are in anarchy and that is the worst thing that could hapen , and probably would lead to destruction of humans .

It's the fascist way of thinking.

No people should dominate another people you jackass!

 

[bertrand]

I live in America and I notice that here the language does much to unify people with various cultures and background.
So for me the rapid spread of English in Europe is a very good thing, because, as i stated in the other thread, i believe the destiny of Europe is to be unified since we all have the same culture and roots.

But it should be behind a strong leadership, not a leadership of bureaucrats and whimps.

 

[Bodin]

I guess you are a complete moron.
Nationalism is out of date.

Like you say...



It's the fascist way of thinking.

No people should dominate another people you jackass!

Well I would call you idiot but , I would only offend poor sick people, you are just lost trying to understand the world . Use force of arguments and not argument of force ( insult) . Name one time in history and one country where there was not dominating group of people and submerged group of people . There cant be human society without some kind of governance , because most people are just like you and need guidance

 

[Bodin]

I live in America and I notice that here the language does much to unify people with various cultures and background.
So for me the rapid spread of English in Europe is a very good thing, because, as i stated in the other thread, i believe the destiny of Europe is to be unified since we all have the same culture and roots.

But it should be behind a strong leadership, not a leadership of bureaucrats and whimps.

Exactly , I am not against English like All-European languague , its god like any other . But I do believe USA citizens had lost nationality , and I dont think this should hapen in Europe.

 

[Goga]

Well I would call you idiot but , I would only offend poor sick people, you are just lost trying to understand the world . Use force of arguments and not argument of force ( insult) . Name one time in history and one country where there was not dominating group of people and submerged group of people . There cant be human society without some kind of governance , because most people are just like you and need guidance

Exactly. I will always support heatlhy practise of patriotism. If Serbs were not patriotic Islam would be their state religion and they would speak Turkic nowadays!
The question is: is this good or bad? I think it's a good thing being patriotic!

 

[LeBrok]

Goga, you just condemned yourself. How proud of you are your ancestors that lived 2000 years ago and died for Kurdish culture? You embraced different religion, or none, and you speak so different language (though called kurdish) that they wouldn't be able to understand you. What would they think, was it worth dieing for future Kurds like yourself?

Are Bosniaks by your standards lesser people than Serbs?
I'm sure you are aware of the fact that christianity is not original Serb religion either.

Probably, as with everything in life, a good does of patriotism is a good thing. Too much though and it's not too healthy.
Can we say moderation is the key?

 

[Reinaert]

Well I would call you idiot but , I would only offend poor sick people, you are just lost trying to understand the world . Use force of arguments and not argument of force ( insult) . Name one time in history and one country where there was not dominating group of people and submerged group of people . There cant be human society without some kind of governance , because most people are just like you and need guidance

You show your true nature again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks

 

[Goga]

LeBrok, people just should not confuse patriotism with racism or national-socialism.

Why is it wrong to love your country?

Serbs aren't better the Bosnians. But the thing is that Bosnians lost a little bit of their old identity, but also gained something from a new one. According to me they were lucky that they lived in the Balkans, far from Turkey (Central Anatolia). Otherwise they would be totally assimilated, like many nations in Anatolia. Assimilations is according to me a cultural genocide!

Our ancestors build something and passed their identity, language and culture to us. And it is now our duty to pass their identity to the next generation. It is a shame and very weak of you if you lose what you inhered from your ancestors. We should have to show some 'dignity' to our parents, grandparents and other ancestors, otherwise we're like all other incautious mammals.
Consciousness and awareness are aspects that make us so different from other mammals!

Building up your country is like building your house. Finding your OWN place where you can live in peace, where you can be free and especially be yourself! A place where you can flourish your identity and culture and develop (evolve) your being even further.

Without patriotism you will never win a war and you will be dominated by others! If this is what you want, so be it. Every person is free to do everything what he wants, though.

I'm not against diversity among the mankind, in contrary patriotism encourages the diversity and plurality of many cultures.

Kurds are a different case because they live in the Middle East and not in Europe.

 

[Reinaert]

Haha.. Patriotism is in the same direction as nationalism and fascism. It's a romantic idea that exists only from about 1800 on.

I try to prove it's nonsense.

Be honest.

Imagine there is a disaster in your country. 100,000 people die.
But it didn't hurt you in any way.
Nor your family, nor anybody else you know.

Do you really care? Be honest!!!
I know, deep in your heart you don't give a damn.

That's why it is possible to fight wars.
A million soldiers died? Who cares.
Of course there will be memorials and such to polish up the national identity.
A theater. Phony tears. Drivel.

 

[Goga]

Somehow you've a good point!

But maybe you also like the idea that the whole world should be dominated by 1 very powerful dictatorial state? Do you really like the idea that we all should to speak Chinese with each other? Maybe you just like the Mao's little Red Book?

For a long time I thought that international wars are not between simple people but between the establishment ('the ruling class') & elites. I thought that it's all about the allocation of power and money.

Maybe it's true that elites who put their money into the wars don't care about the casualties and deaths of simple people. Maybe these very rich people don't care about nationality only about domination, power and money.

But after I studied cases in the Middle East, like Israel or even in Europe, I changed my mind.

A human society is much more complex. And the establishment is only a very small part of the community, that mainly lives outside the big cities. And the establishments change all the time.

In a state there're many factors that connect people, like: the common history, origin, values, culture and language. If there is a war, simple people don't have much power or capital (money) to lose. And money is something more universal and like with haplogroups, there are no boundaries for money!
But what they can lose are their lives, dignity, their identity (culture, language) and their especially RECOGNITION! And we all always are in search for recognition, from a point when we started to think independently ...

This is my opinion. But opionions are like @$$h0les, everybody's got one...

 

[barbarian]

Exactly. I will always support heatlhy practise of patriotism. If Serbs were not patriotic Islam would be their state religion and they would speak Turkic nowadays!
The question is: is this good or bad? I think it's a good thing being patriotic!

which country does speak turkish from former ottoman empire?

even ottoman didnt prefer to use turkish.

 

[Reinaert]

Goga wrote this:

Somehow you've a good point!

But maybe you also like the idea that the whole world should be dominated by 1 very powerful dictatorial state? Do you really like the idea that we all should to speak Chinese with each other? Maybe you just like the Mao's little Red Book?

Huh? Who are you talking to? Me?
Mao was a fascist leader, just like Stalin and Hitler.

I believe in clans and families.
I am an anti-nationalist.

I believe in a Europe of the regions.
Not in one European monster state.

It's also in the Catholic principles, like "Rerum Novarum".
Socialist and Catholic go together quite well in my region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity_(Catholicism)

 

[barbarian]

This is my opinion. But opionions are like @$$h0les, everybody's got one...

) i will steal it.

you have great "opinion"s.

 

[Goga]

Huh? Who are you talking to? Me?
Mao was a fascist leader, just like Stalin and Hitler.

I believe in clans and families.
I am an anti-nationalist.

I believe in a Europe of the regions.
Not in one European monster state.

It's also in the Catholic principles, like "Rerum Novarum".
Socialist and Catholic go together quite well in my region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity_(Catholicism)

Yes, toward you.

Yes, clans and families are a great structure. But clans also must be united. Look at what happened to Scotland. They were not really united and eventually got dominated by English folks!

Maybe is a confederation of regions / decentralisation (but under 1 state of same folks) the best option for you?

I've got a question for you. There's a WC final soccer match between Holland and Germany. For which team are you (as Dutchman)?

 

[Goga]

which country does speak turkish from former ottoman empire?

even ottoman didnt prefer to use turkish.

Such countries are still part of Turkey nowadays.