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Thread: J1 vs. J1c3 vs. J1c3d in Europe?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Country: Portugal



    J1 vs. J1c3 vs. J1c3d in Europe?

    I have a few questions.

    Can you be J1 (DYS 388=16) without being J1c3 or J1c3d? I did a deep clade test and my confirmed haplogroup was J1. With DYS388=16 shouldn't I be J1c3?

    Also I am from Northern Portugal and don't know how J1 got there. Could that happened during the Neolithic? I have matches all over Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy. In have exact 12 STR matches with people from Hungary and Switzerland. In my 1-step and 2-step mutations matches I only have 1 or 2 matches in Turkey and Lebanon.

    Could I also be of Jewish ancestry? I did my genealogy and all the Santos family males were Catholic all the way to the 1650.

    Could J1 or even J1c3 migrate to Europe during the Neolithic? If the age of J1c3 is aprox. 9,000 and J1 even older is it possible that a few individuals fallow J2 in their migration to Europe via the Black Sea? I just have two many matches in central European countries and very few in the Middle-East.

    Thank you very much.

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    Historically the area was in moors hands from 900 AD. The gradual recon quest of the area resulted in a lot of conversions to the catholic faith for the Jews and Moors. A large group of the Jews and moors that did not convert fled to Istanbul. Although allot of the converts were killed in the inquisition that followed. So I am not sure how much of a genetic mark it has left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esker1970 View Post
    I have a few questions.

    Can you be J1 (DYS 388=16) without being J1c3 or J1c3d? I did a deep clade test and my confirmed haplogroup was J1. With DYS388=16 shouldn't I be J1c3?

    Also I am from Northern Portugal and don't know how J1 got there. Could that happened during the Neolithic? I have matches all over Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy. In have exact 12 STR matches with people from Hungary and Switzerland. In my 1-step and 2-step mutations matches I only have 1 or 2 matches in Turkey and Lebanon.

    Could I also be of Jewish ancestry? I did my genealogy and all the Santos family males were Catholic all the way to the 1650.

    Could J1 or even J1c3 migrate to Europe during the Neolithic? If the age of J1c3 is aprox. 9,000 and J1 even older is it possible that a few individuals fallow J2 in their migration to Europe via the Black Sea? I just have two many matches in central European countries and very few in the Middle-East.

    Thank you very much.
    My family was in the Pas de Calais since the XV century, never moved from near Boulogne. Farmers. (well, the NAME was there)
    In 1500, one Holuigue was Apostolic Notary, others were canons in St Bertin (St Omer).
    The arabs never made it up there. Jews are a possibility.
    Or maybe a specialist from the Fertile Crescent brought the new technology up north?
    Suggestions wellcome, but J1 is 1.3% in Benelux, 0% in France .. I feel lonely![/QUOTE]

    I think its possible it got their as a result of the Alans.

    First off I am J1. I descend from the Grahams of Scotland. My family is the biggest family in the Graham DNA Project. The project believes that our family is the progenitor family of the name and descendants of Sir William de Graham born 1128. It is believed now believed that William de Graham may have been flemish rather than Anglo-Norman. It is believed his father could have been Arnulf de Hesdin a flemish Baron who entered England with William the Conqueror.

    Second, our closest relatives(based off of the J1 DNA project at FTDNA.com) outside the Grahams belong to the Baloch tribe. We share an SNP with them that is about 2500 years old. That means the earliest we could have split from them was 500BC. The Baloch speak a North-west Iranian language. Some scholars and linguists believe that they are descendants(at least partially) of the Parthians. The Parthian Empire was founded by the Parni tribe, the Parni tribe came from the Dahae federation of tribes, and the Dahae federation of tribes is partially descendant of the Massagetae tribe. Another tribe that is partially descendant of the Massagetae are the Alans.

    Third, the only non Germanic tribe that was a part of the Great migration into Europe were the Alans. One of these groups lead by a leader named Goar settled near Orleans in Gual, which is just South of Flanders. Which would explain how my family got their. Another group went further into Spain and Portugal and some even went into North Africa. J1 is not common among Iranian groups but it is consistently found within them. Seems to be found in places were G2 is found. The primary Y DNA of the Ossetians.

    I am curious to know what sub-clade of J1 you belong to. The Grahams in the J1 project on FTDNA.com have been waiting to find a closer match within Europe.


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    Quote Originally Posted by esker1970 View Post
    I have a few questions.

    Can you be J1 (DYS 388=16) without being J1c3 or J1c3d? I did a deep clade test and my confirmed haplogroup was J1. With DYS388=16 shouldn't I be J1c3?

    Also I am from Northern Portugal and don't know how J1 got there. Could that happened during the Neolithic? I have matches all over Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy. In have exact 12 STR matches with people from Hungary and Switzerland. In my 1-step and 2-step mutations matches I only have 1 or 2 matches in Turkey and Lebanon.

    Could I also be of Jewish ancestry? I did my genealogy and all the Santos family males were Catholic all the way to the 1650.

    Could J1 or even J1c3 migrate to Europe during the Neolithic? If the age of J1c3 is aprox. 9,000 and J1 even older is it possible that a few individuals fallow J2 in their migration to Europe via the Black Sea? I just have two many matches in central European countries and very few in the Middle-East.

    Thank you very much.
    It's important to note that no j1's were found in neolithic samples so we shouldn't be quick to think it came during neolithic times. Being that your (DYS 388=16), it's most likely you are J1c3 or J1c3d which are typically semitic markers. I would start off by joining the J1 ydna ftdna project and contact Victar Mas to help put you in a cluster. That way you will be able to see other people who match you and get an idea of your origin. Note that j1c3 originated in southern mesopotamia/northern arabia so that is where your ancestor started out in about 8k years ago. Good luck!

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Italy



    Yes and no, if you belong to J1 L222 you could have a good chance to have arabian heritage, but it is their particular semitic/arabian subclade. While the first and the origins of J1 is from the Caucasus (the first one was founded in epigravettian Caucasus) and a very old J1 was founded in mesolithic North Russia (Yuzhnyy Oleni Ostrov) surely via Caucasus. See the maps below: https://www.facebook.com/ethnopedia/...type=3&theater
    Sicilians and mainlander Southern Italian phenotype galleries.

    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/1111/Re-Groups-of-Sicilians
    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/375/Southern-italians-how-we-really-look

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