Politics Are you in favour of immigration?

In the mass-immigration, low skills, high propensity of going on state aid sense? No. In the low-level, high-skills sense? Yes.
 
Well, that's a good thing, in my opinion - hundred million new taxpayers! That way, state would be able to handle the social issues better, because it would get more money from the taxes.

well seems like you aprove the old Ottoman charats the head tax,
each man must pay tax, no matter how rich he is,

if you ask all those poor people to pay taxes, with out 1rst giving them dwell and jobs, they revolt and they will be right,

simply those people came to take the 'Gifts' of state,

> 2 000 000 in Greece live by state Help, like many children (muslims) Help, or 50 working days Insuranse and unemployment salary,

do you want to take taxes from those people,

TAXES ARE TO take money from the rich and give to poor


not from poor to give the rich
(as in modern Greece politicians)
 
It is important to distinguish between the various types of "immigration". Migrants can be high skilled, medium skilled or low skilled. They can seek permanent residency, perhaps with naturalisation, or, on the contrary, be temporarily relocated (like expats or diplomats). There are also individuals who wish to experience life in another country for a few years.

The most common objection to immigration is the case of low-skilled immigrants, especially those coming from poor countries with a very different culture from the host country. Lowe-class Africans and Muslims are typically the least well accepted immigrants in Western countries because the huge socio-economic and cultural gap.

The unemployment rate is not a good indicator for the necessity of immigration, because in most cases the unemployed lack the skills required for the jobs available on the market. That's why jobs are rarely "stolen" by foreigners, and highly skilled workers are sought-after in many developed countries. The cases of jobs really stolen by foreigners is when companies relocate factories, call centres or their accounting or legal departments to developing countries. But in that case it is the salaries that migrate, not the people. Immigration cannot be blamed for it.

Nowadays the logic that immigrants for poor countries are needed to do the jobs that locals don't want to do anymore, or to reduce costs, has become irrelevant. Instead of bringing low-skilled immigrants to work in our factories, it is factories that are relocated. Only a few low-skilled jobs cannot be relocated, like construction workers or cleaners. As immigrants tend to adapt better in cultures closer to their own, it makes sense that the cheap workforce from developing countries in Western Europe or the USA should come from Eastern Europe and Latin America, rather than Muslim countries or Africa.

A good part of the jobless in countries that have had high unemployment rates for decades, like Belgium, France, Italy or Spain, are people who haven't worked in a very long time and probably won't ever work again. Some people are just unhirable because they lack of qualifications, have some sort of disability, or are afflicted by serious social or psychological problems that hinder their chances of finding a job.

Normally, in an open job market like the EU or the USA, that doesn't require visas to move from one state to another, people seeking employment in another state shouldn't be called immigrants (although the term 'migrant worker' is often used), even if the move is permanent. A British couple buying a house in France or Spain for their retirement are not properly speaking immigrants either, as they do not leave the EU and do not need to apply for a visa.
 
well seems like you aprove the old Ottoman charats the head tax,
each man must pay tax, no matter how rich he is,

if you ask all those poor people to pay taxes, with out 1rst giving them dwell and jobs, they revolt and they will be right,

simply those people came to take the 'Gifts' of state,

> 2 000 000 in Greece live by state Help, like many children (muslims) Help, or 50 working days Insuranse and unemployment salary,

do you want to take taxes from those people,

TAXES ARE TO take money from the rich and give to poor


not from poor to give the rich
(as in modern Greece politicians)

Tax the wealthy, that's what I'm saying. ;)
 
well I will try to give an example of a modern emigrant, from a (poor) country,

I come to Greece, i drop my papers at sea, I work 5 years in hidden works for no insurance,

I get nationality, by paid people who swear i live 10 years, i pay 1500 E for that,

then I go back and buy a woman, I make 5 children, so i take public help from state,
my wife has an eternal money help,

i open a small businnes, like a small kafe or haircut, or Gyros,

i hire all my brothers just for 50 days a year, while they work All year,
by 50 days work stamps they have medical insurance all year for the rest of year and after 15 years for rest of life,
with 50 days stamps I can take also public help for unemployment for 6 months and 4 month public help grants.
so I will have a retirement, and my 'brothers' will not,
I dont pay taxes, cause i have a small corporation, and I live in small flat that I rent, 7-10 people,

All my money goes back to my first country, when I will be old enough I maybe have a big Block in my country origin, or many money in Bank,

so was I use full to country I immigrate? or to the bankers and Industry sharks, who wanted to raise profit by using cheap labors, with less insurance,

simply illegal and enormous immigration, drops the lvl of living quality, public health, and public safety, since part of immigrants are also criminals or fortune hunters.
the posibilty of enviroment decrease is still open.

the case of immigration in Europe is raising to scary numbers, lately,

strong Euro pushes that, if i am to work 1 day in south asia or africa, and take same money with 1/2 hour in Europe, if i born a child and get paid for that in Europe, then why to stay there,

now about immigration as multicultural or as Μετοικοι (merchants, diplomats) is different than modern slave-market,
how many people carry illegal immigrants with boats or trucks, why? who pays them to risk that? How much they earn?

a trip from pakistan to Italy,

pakistan to turkey boarders 150 $
from Turkey to Greece 1000 $
from Greece to south italy 5000 $
from Greece to France or Venice 6-8 000 $,

in a news papper only in Greece after E entered more than 2 000 000 while from 1900-2000 almost not 100 000 (except refugees)
today statistics say about 350 people every day manage to cross boarders and about other 350 get caught every day,

What is more Human? to stop Immigration? or to let them in, and when get sick do not accept them in Hospitals?

it is not the same with be an German and at your late retirement buy a house in Italy,

the problem is not immigration or working class movements,
the problem is uncontrolled and illegal immigration.
 
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Tax the wealthy, that's what I'm saying. ;)



are you sure, cause in that

Well, that's a good thing, in my opinion - hundred million new taxpayers! That way, state would be able to handle the social issues better, because it would get more money from the taxes.

I recon that you want to collect taxes from the immigrants.
 
are you sure, cause in that



I recon that you want to collect taxes from the immigrants.

Of course every citizen shall be taxed for his possessions, but the wealthy shall be taxed much, much more. After all, we do not live in turkish feudalism, but in a civilized societies and progressive democracies.
 
but how you ask someone who lives from public or state help to pay taxes?

when Diogenes was infront of ferryman Hades, he said for the ticket price
ουκ αν λαβεις παρα του μη εχοντος,

you can not take something from someone that has nothing,

these people mostly rent a house or a flat, to sleep 7-8-10 people, they live by public help and unemployment salaries,

want estimation?

> 2 000 000 in Greece after olympic games
>4 000 000 live with 50 days work stamps,
from the above half are Greeks, but the rest are immigrants.

most of them eat in church or majors food coupons, how you will collect taxes from them?
some of them will be glad to go to prison in winter, cause it is warm and good food,

media and cinema show them a paradise that they may have the chance to be rich,
or you will collect taxes from their properties in another country,

yes I believe in taxes to the ones who have, but no one can take something from the one that does not have.


to be more specific with numbers,

a country has 10 M and a ballance,
has 4 % unemployment,
it can absorve some immigration, lets say 1 M
country becomes more unbalanced and public spends for help must be cut or raise taxes,
unemployment reaches 10%
put another 1 million fast, more taxes to the 1rst 10 M, lees public health, smugglers start commerce violence and crime raise, and unemployment reach 15%

put another 1 million, taxes start to struggle the first 10 M, public help becomes no help, but a joke, crime raises, red allert for society, unemployment 20%

put another 1 M, first 10 M react, either sell all cause taxes are very high, and move away, either sell and start living like immigrants, in misery conditions asking for public help, (early industrial era). no ones pays taxes cause all sold or cheap,
immigrants getto and political unions raise, the country is not balanced but in a mood for trouble cause unemployment is 25%, crime is at height, goverments start to borrow money from bankers, or start wars to gain, or hrash salaries, in order not to debt,
so a well balanced country with colour and culture, became problematic, no colour, no culture, or just getto and whores culture by uncontrolled immigration.

well the 1rst country is no more the same country, people moved to another, or all became victims of Bankers and slave merchants,
minorities start to make law their culture, and an inner war starts,

well the only we achieve is to destroy a country, make its cities Bronx and NY, drug dealers smugglers and crime every where, but we All Drink Coca-cola, and eat hamburgers, (the fake American Dream, not the real one)

uncontroled and illegal immigrations creates geto and cities inside cities, with all the rest of what that means,

in my last visit to Venice, I thought I was in an Indian bazaar than Rialto,

uncontroled and illegal immigration helps only Banks, Industry sharks, Fortune hunters, and non tax payers,
and creates unemployment, cultural problems, social troubles, and raises public spend and taxes
while decreases public health insurance.

instead of doing the nearby countries like EU (free mind and speech, educated) we are making EU like the countries of immigrants (burka wear, no school for girls etc).

Ask an immigrant, about his country, he will tell you it is paradise,
ask him why he came, he will tell to work
the paradise he lived did not had work for him?
in country of 15% unemployment immigration starts to be a problem.until january, Greeks did not pay tax for a small house of less 100 m2 if it was their only fortune, and if a field smaller than 4 000 m2,
after january, with hrash of salaries even a small house of 50 m2 must pay tax,
000 of houses are to sold, but no one buys them, cause simply immigrants do not want to buy them and pay tax, cause rent by 7 is cheaper.
that decision raise Nazism in greece to 4% in Athens municipal which was never above 0,5% after WW2

that is a true story,
a child born costs 3500-10 000 E average according demands,
an immigrant with green card, brought his wife at 8,5 months pregnancy and send her to born in municipal hospital, with no health insurance, hospital send her away since had at least 1 week and told her to go back,
the next day 50 rioters gather and make troubles and attack doctor and manager,
the case became wide spread, police judges, even the municipal officer came,
the result, the man pay only 50 E he had and the rest from the municipal, to stop troubles,
3500 E from tax payers went away for a clever immigrant, who with out pay any stamp manage with threat to make Greek citizens to pay for child birth,
think unemployed citizen with 1 small house of 50m2 pay taxes for immigrant that has work, and don't have stamps, simply out of mind,
is that multicultural Europe you want?
italian pizza with arabian bread, chinese Gouda cheese, russian ham, argentina bacon, and african mushrooms?
 
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Immigrant like everyone else is obliged to respect the Constitution and the laws.

Regarding state help, of course those people shall not be taxed. The state shall help them find a job and then care about themselves. When their life is no more poverty and misery they become taxpayers.
 
Immigrant like everyone else is obliged to respect the Constitution and the laws.

Regarding state help, of course those people shall not be taxed. The state shall help them find a job and then care about themselves. When their life is no more poverty and misery they become taxpayers.

I am as a representative of Darth Vader's totalitarian dictatorship political party totally disagree.
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Snotty liberals are outdated. My vision:
1) White Europe (on 90-95%)
2) Atheism and Christianity
3) Market economy with social spending on indigenous european population, not newcomers
4) Anti-gay parades
5) Anti-feminism and anti-infringement of the women rights (like in Russia there is no feminism, cultivation of femininity)
6) Ok democratic rule, free strikes and meetings
7) Minimal immigration (only the most useful & smartest people), social spending on youth families instead of social costs for unemployment immigrants
8) Barriers to the negative features of globalization
9) 1 army and military, one for all and all for one
10) Don't like Jedi which constantly say "if you still have not a democracy then we sending our democratic bombers to you!" what the hell.
 
Immigrant like everyone else is obliged to respect the Constitution and the laws.

Regarding state help, of course those people shall not be taxed. The state shall help them find a job and then care about themselves. When their life is no more poverty and misery they become taxpayers.


Indded you are to the rigt point to that,

but until then, (find jobs, make better life etc) what?
until they become tax payers,
if immigration is bigger than a number that a country can absord?
can a state or a society, accepts 30-40% of immigrants of ots current poppulation with out a shock?
how long and how dangerous that shock will be,

we are not talking about racism, or cultural violence etc,
we are talking about immigration, that will not hurt today societies and countries.

the problem of many countries has exactly that,
stop immigration at boarders by shooting immigrants?
or accept them, but no public healp
(let them die outside hospitals, and don't give them public-state help)

for me a media campaign in the countries in the countries that immigrants came,
to show them real conditions, is the most best way,
a massive report of dis-advertisement Europe as the paradise,
 
Snotty conservatives are like dinosaurs.
They don't live anymore.

Very funny that in Europe communists & liberals together, such a strange mixture. But you right, if that vid below really made in Brussels, then european conservatives are dead, enjoy



 

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