Etruscans=Illyrians=Pelasgi //// tuscans=albanians ?????

[zanipolo]

Hi Albanopolis, I know it's easier to ignore them, but I can't let it go without putting in my two cents. History and linguistics are a hobby of mine. More of us speak up the better is. Thank you for your welcome!

If you believe genetics and languages are related to each other,and you can find some type of relationship with each other, then you are wasting your time.

 

[Illyricum Sacrum]

If you believe genetics and languages are related to each other,and you can find some type of relationship with each other, then you are wasting your time.

I don't see where such correlation was made between languages and genes in my post. I'm not sure you even read it. I suppose you're barking to the wrong tree.

 

[Illyricum Sacrum]

Maciano, I have to strongly disagree with your statement on Garrick. If anyone has any minimal knowledge of Albanian language, would find Garrick's Berber-Alb link laughable. Please check my post #198. As per Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza's, Albanians are the first settlers of the area (coming from Anatolia), followed by Armenians circa 500 years later then Greeks 2,000 later. "Genes, People and Languages, pages163-164)

 

[zanipolo]

Is there any "albanian" marker in Britain? or even the departure point in the netherlands?
The Romans took many thracians ( dacians, getae, triballi, moesians, bessi etc ) men there
The Romans took many IllyrianS (dalmatians, liburnians, pannonians, iasopes etc ) men there

If so, which are the markers?

 

[Illyricum Sacrum]

This Albanian propaganda after a while becomes very boring

Sorry Binx but do you have any knowledge of Albanian or Arvanitika? Let me rephrase a well known Greek author:
“It’s the fault of a German,” Mr. Dimou said about Greek pride in this cause. He was referring to Johann Winckelmann, the 18th-century German art historian whose vision of an ancient Greece “populated by beautiful, tall, blond, wise people, representing perfection,” as Mr. Dimou put it, was in a sense imposed on the country to shape modern Greek identity.
“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.” Now to enlighten you, since you're bored, I suggest you read a study by John Bintliff "The Ethnoarchaelogy of a "passive" ethnicity: the Arvanites of Central Greece". You'll get a better understanding of Arvanitika. I suggest you read, also Edmund Martin Geldart's "The Modern Greek Language" pages128-137 to get a better grasp of Albanian and correlation of it with Sanscrit and where Latin and Greek stand.

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

I have moved the thread to the Linguistics subforum.

I personally believe that it is a mistake to classify the Albanian language as purely Indo-European. I think it is originally a language of Old Europe (Neolithic South-East Europe, settled by Near Eastern farmers, so in all likelihood an Afro-Asiatic language), which was later influenced by the overbearing presence of neighbouring Indo-European languages. Garrick pointed out in another thread the similarity between Albanian and Berber languages.

Taranis made a few noteworthy observations here, but the long time span that separate ancient Etruscan from modern Albanian would effectively allow for such phonetic changes (more vowels, distinction between between voiced and unvoiced stop consonants). Just look how French vowels have diverged from other Romance languages and from Latin. As for the voiced and unvoiced stop consonants, Korean doesn't, while Japanese does, and Japanese undeniably descends in part from Korean. When two languages converge to form a new hybrid language (like English or Japanese) or one language is strongly influenced by another (like French with Frankish), it is common to see major shifts in vowels and/or consonants. Albanian is obviously a hybrid language belonging to two linguistic families (Afro-Asiatic and Indo-European).

Besides the linguistic aspect, it makes sense that Etruscan and Albanian be related to ancient Near Eastern languages, since both ethnic groups were migrants from Anatolia or the Levant, and both are an admixture mostly of haplogroups J2 and E1b1b. I think we could indeed associate the Pelasgians to these two haplogroups. I believe that R1a1a and R1b1b2a1 came later to Greece, Macedonia and Albania. I personally find it most likely that R1a1a was brought by the Mycenaeans, and R1b1b2a1 by the Sea Peoples, Dorians, Celts and Romans.

On the other hand I don't think the Illyrians have anything to do with either the Etruscans or the Albanians.

i really dont want to offend you personaly but your postis very idiotic and total nonsense
there is no connection between the paleo-indoeuropean albanian language and the afro-asiatic ones and that you reffer to this post of the serb which was not even meant seriouse it was just a simple provocation in which he used invented words as "albanian" shows that you have no clue what you are talking about

the albanian language is not a hybrid one it stayted almost the same for thousands of years that anicent scripts can still be translated in the today albanian language prooves this obviously

after Luigi_Luca_Cavalli-Sforza the albanian language is dated to a begining over 8000 years ago http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p292/Dardaniaaa/cavalli-sforza.jpg
so its the oldest language of europe which is still spoken today and if one language influnced others than this one
the latin and the hellenic language are based on the albanian one

there is no relation between the semitic languages of the levant and the norhtafrican ones to the languages of old europe like albanian
when should this connection should happend after you when they splitted in the late stone age??

the last sentence is the best this disqualifys you to every discussion about albanians or the balkans
the albanains are culturally and genetically the illyrians themself their dircet descents
and the etruscans are one of the main proto-illyrian pelasgic tribes like the macedonians
they came from illyria to italy

for this topic i recomend you:
http://books.google.fr/books?id=tQ_...sult&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg

http://books.google.de/books?id=-XNDcgAACAAJ&dq=inauthor:%22Robert+d'+Angely%22&hl=de&sa=X&ei=CObNUYpzhui1BszLgYAC&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAQ
(http://www.pelasg.org/robert_dangely_enigma_en.html)

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

also interesting for this topic
http://books.google.fr/books?id=IJ2...6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=albanian etruscan&f=false

http://books.google.fr/books?id=MMM...sult&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...dq=Etruscans+illyrian&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

Garrick pointed out in another thread the similarity between Albanian and Berber languages.

say in albanian is "thuaj"
my is "e imja"
we is "ne"
"se" is "because" than is "at her"
meat is "mish" ushqim means food not meat
fat is "yndyre" in geg dialekt there exist the word vijam but dhjam is invented total nonsense
father means "ati" and mother means "ema" baba is not albanian this word is used in almost every muslim country it is a loanword
thread means "ceshtije" fill is nonsense it has no meaning
elephant means "elefanti" fil again total nonsense

black is "zi" e zeze means its black
roatate is "rrotullim"
eat is "ngren"

and so on...

this guy worked with googel translator lol i checked it
just a simple provocation wich cruise around all serbian forums

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

the pelasgo-illyrians were not a nation like in the modern sense they even often killed each other
but they were all connected in a big cultural family

 

[Ike]

Ok, dude worked with google translator.
It's not his fault he doesn't know both Albanian and Berberian to confirm it. That's why it's public on forum, for you to check it.

Anyway, it seems reasonable to assume that Albanian language developed from the language their ancestors spoke, which points us to North-African E population. If there are no similarities that means either Albanians or Berberians are now speaking language that was imposed onto them by later invaders (if anyone has different theory please present). When we extrude Arab influence from Berberian where do we stand?

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

Ok, dude worked with google translator.
It's not his fault he doesn't know both Albanian and Berberian to confirm it. That's why it's public on forum, for you to check it.

Anyway, it seems reasonable to assume that Albanian language developed from the language their ancestors spoke, which points us to North-African E population. If there are no similarities that means either Albanians or Berberians are now speaking language that was imposed onto them by later invaders (if anyone has different theory please present). When we extrude Arab influence from Berberian where do we stand?

of course its his fault if you dont know than you should not talk about it or present it as a fact
dont protect him just because you are serbian too

it points us not at all to the north african-e population you point it there although you have more E1b1b1 than albanians
eastern europeans have nothing in common with north afrcans they splitted in the late stone age
so its total nonsense to talk about "our ancestors" in north africa

we are talking about a time where no berberian or arabs existed so again you are talking nonsense
thats unlogical thats like trying to connect today german and today iranian because the proto-indoeuropeans migrated from that place
:02::65:

 

[zanipolo]

the pelasgo-illyrians were not a nation like in the modern sense they even often killed each other
but they were all connected in a big cultural family


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why you mixing etruscan with albanian, ?......neither existed at the same time.

Why you mentioning illyrians,? the illyrians did not call themselves illyrians, never ever, it is a geographical name invented by Greeks to refer to the many different linguistic, ethnic and different tribes to the noth of Hellenic lands, basically barbarians........
Illyrians, who all had different kings/chiefs and very rarely ever united together......which is why the Romans could defeat them......by piecemeal wars.

The thracians are also a geographical name, same as italians, iberians, british etc

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

why you mixing etruscan with albanian, ?......neither existed at the same time.

Why you mentioning illyrians,? the illyrians did not call themselves illyrians, never ever, it is a geographical name invented by Greeks to refer to the many different linguistic, ethnic and different tribes to the noth of Hellenic lands, basically barbarians........
Illyrians, who all had different kings/chiefs and very rarely ever united together......which is why the Romans could defeat them......by piecemeal wars.

The thracians are also a geographical name, same as italians, iberians, british etc

the pelasgic tribe of etruscians are part of the albanian ancesotrs who said they existed at the same time
we are talking about the ancient etruscian scripts which can be translated only in todays albanain

wrong, illyrians called themself ilir which means the free one in albanian and iliria was the land of the free
because they were the only one who ruled from one see to another the whole balkan

and greeks didnt exist at that time you are talking about hellenic tribes which are also descent of the pelasgo-illyrians like the dorians which came from north illyria

romans were not very different from illyrians they were connceted with them trought the illyrian tribes like the mesapians etruscians and the adriatic veneti

the illyrians were not a nation like in the modern sense they foughted their worst wars with their own for example the dardanians and macedonians had a long history of rivality
or the taulanti which fought on the side of the romans against other rival illyric tribes
but they were all culturally connected had the same language and believes

there are a few one which could unite them as one power for example the warrior king bato who caused the great illyrian revolt which almost destroyed rome

 

[zanipolo]

the pelasgic tribe of etruscians are part of the albanian ancesotrs who said they existed at the same time
we are talking about the ancient etruscian scripts which can be translated only in todays albanain

wrong, illyrians called themself ilir which means the free one in albanian and iliria was the land of the free
because they were the only one who ruled from one see to another the whole balkan

and greeks didnt exist at that time you are talking about hellenic tribes which are also descent of the pelasgo-illyrians like the dorians which came from north illyria

romans were not very different from illyrians they were connceted with them trought the illyrian tribes like the mesapians etruscians and the adriatic veneti

the illyrians were not a nation like in the modern sense they foughted their worst wars with their own for example the dardanians and macedonians had a long history of rivality
or the taulanti which fought on the side of the romans against other rival illyric tribes
but they were all culturally connected had the same language and believes

there are a few one which could unite them as one power for example the warrior king bato who caused the great illyrian revolt which almost destroyed rome

explain please because I see no mention of the term etruscan in AD times and I see no term of albanoi in BC times.........so where is this link?


link me this ilir term and not some fictional fantasy greek, Egyptian, roman, celtic term ........

I will find the recent article which states that the Taulanti where a mix of "parthini-illyrian", "epirote" and "hellenic" people.
they sided with the Romans because they hated the Dalmatian-illyrians, these taulanti where more aligned with the macedonians as proved by the numerous "royal" weddings between each other

Albanians cannot claim the term they are illyrians, because bosnians, croatians etc etc have the same claim. You maybe can claim taulanti, parthini and dardanian as these tribes lived in modern albania and kosovo, but that's a stretch as well

 

[Ike]

of course its his fault if you dont know than you should not talk about it or present it as a fact
dont protect him just because you are serbian too

He presented something he got from Google translator. He was mislead by it. You said he was a provoker, and I don't think that's the right term for it. Nobody is protecting anyone from anything.

it points us not at all to the north african-e population you point it there although you have more E1b1b1 than albanians
eastern europeans have nothing in common with north afrcans they splitted in the late stone age
so its total nonsense to talk about "our ancestors" in north africa

we are talking about a time where no berberian or arabs existed so again you are talking nonsense
thats unlogical thats like trying to connect today german and today iranian because the proto-indoeuropeans migrated from that place

I see nothing wrong with connection between German and Iranian languages. There is an obvious connection.

Stone age is a long period. What's your point? That E-V13 invented Albanian language after they broke up from North Africa? When would that be?

 

[Yetos]

the pelasgic tribe of etruscians are part of the albanian ancesotrs who said they existed at the same time
we are talking about the ancient etruscian scripts which can be translated only in todays albanain

wrong, illyrians called themself ilir which means the free one in albanian and iliria was the land of the free
because they were the only one who ruled from one see to another the whole balkan

and greeks didnt exist at that time you are talking about hellenic tribes which are also descent of the pelasgo-illyrians like the dorians which came from north illyria

romans were not very different from illyrians they were connceted with them trought the illyrian tribes like the mesapians etruscians and the adriatic veneti

the illyrians were not a nation like in the modern sense they foughted their worst wars with their own for example the dardanians and macedonians had a long history of rivality
or the taulanti which fought on the side of the romans against other rival illyric tribes
but they were all culturally connected had the same language and believes

there are a few one which could unite them as one power for example the warrior king bato who caused the great illyrian revolt which almost destroyed rome

Better read more threads and posts in the forum,

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

explain please because I see no mention of the term etruscan in AD times and I see no term of albanoi in BC times.........so where is this link?


link me this ilir term and not some fictional fantasy greek, Egyptian, roman, celtic term ........

I will find the recent article which states that the Taulanti where a mix of "parthini-illyrian", "epirote" and "hellenic" people.
they sided with the Romans because they hated the Dalmatian-illyrians, these taulanti where more aligned with the macedonians as proved by the numerous "royal" weddings between each other

you are wasting my time with your random nonsense
how you see no term of albanoi in bc times?? lol the albanoi or albani were an illyrian tribe in middle albania from them comes the term "albanians"



illyr is the english form of iliri which means the free one in today albanian
so about what ficitonal name are you talking?

lol the parthini were also an illyrian tribe:

The Parthini or Partheni or Peerthenetai (Greek Παρθῖνοι, Παρθηνοί) ^[60] were Illyrians, part of the Taulantii^[6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_tribes_in_Illyria#Parthini

epiriote is another synonym for albanians in the middle ages or the south illyrian tribes in ancient times
hellens were just seperated descents of the illyrian dorians and other illyro-pelasgic tribes
macedonians are pre-hellenic they are pelasgian and part of the illyro-thracian cultural group they were considered as barbarians from the newbies on the balkan the hellens and see their cult of the sun and and and

Albanians cannot claim the term they are illyrians, because bosnians, croatians etc etc have the same claim. You maybe can claim taulanti, parthini and dardanian as these tribes lived in modern albania and kosovo, but that's a stretch as well

hahahahha no no no bosnians croatians have no right at all to connect theirself with the illyrians becuase they are culturally and genetically 100% slavic
and the north illyrian tribes like the dalmatians paonians etc. went through the centuries down south when you immigrated
albanians are the only one which have the right to call themself illyrian culturally and gentically they are the illyrians themself
so dont switch roles your identity is slavic dont try to steal ours in fyromstyle

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

He presented something he got from Google translator. He was mislead by it. You said he was a provoker, and I don't think that's the right term for it. Nobody is protecting anyone from anything.

stop lyieng i have seen this post many times he didnt even wrotte it himself its from some retarded ultra-nationalistic forum from serbia
it was just a simple provocation look at the second post he trys to compare pictures from some berbers and northalbanians hahahahaha he is just a ***** so stop with your pseduo-objective writting

I see nothing wrong with connection between German and Iranian languages. There is an obvious connection.
Stone age is a long period. What's your point? That E-V13 invented Albanian language after they broke up from North Africa? When would that be?

whats your point? you are talking nonsense not me
a haplogroup invented a language?? :embarassed:
and albanians are not just e-v13 there are also other haplogroups

 

[Athelti Albanoi]

Better read more threads and posts in the forum,

i know exactly what i am talking about i am studying this stuff

 

[Taranis]

Welcome to Eupedia, although I must ask you to mind your manners.

the albanian language is not a hybrid one it stayted almost the same for thousands of years that anicent scripts can still be translated in the today albanian language prooves this obviously

I am sorry to disappoint you, but you are mistaken by a long shot.

Cavalli-Sforza based that estimate on glottochronology, which is a completely flawed method. There is also no evidence that Albanian "stayed almost the same for thousands of years", on the very contrary, Albanian probably didn't look recognizably like modern Albanian until the start of the Middle Ages. Albanian borrowed large amounts of vocabulary from Greek, Latin, Gothic, Slavic and Turkish (in approximately that chronological order).

All these "translations" of Etruscan in Albanian are based on magical word-dismantlement and make-believe. It's clear that Etruscan was a non-Indo-European language (while Albanian, in turn, is clearly Indo-European) and the two have no connection what so ever with each other. There is even an easy way to prove this: the Pyrgi tablet is a bilingual Etruscan-Phoenician inscription. Phoenician is a Semitic language - closely related with Hebrew, and so we know the content of the inscription. The Etruscan inscription should have the same, which is - even though not word-for-word, the case for the 'official' (scholarly) translation. I am still waiting for a 'translation' by those who who believe that Etruscan was Albanian, Slavic, Turkish (or whatever) that is not unintelligible gibberish.

the pelasgo-illyrians were not a nation like in the modern sense they even often killed each other
but they were all connected in a big cultural family

There were no "Pelasgo-Illyrians". This is a complete fabrication:

- The Pelasgians in the sense of the ancient Greeks were either the earliest ancestors of the Greeks themselves, or the Pre-Greek inhabitants of Greece. They are not strictly speaking a historic people but more a semi-legendary one. At this point, we have no connection with the Albanians or the Albanian language.

- The Illyrians were the tribes that inhabited the western Balkans in Antiquity. Their languages are poorly attested but one of them may have been the ancestor language of modern Albanian. There is no evidence they were connected in any way to the Pelasgians. It's also possible, instead, that Albanian is connected with the Dacian language.

- In the linguistic sense, the term "Pelasgian" has been used to refer to Greek words that are of non-Greek origin, that is, words that Greek did not inherit from Proto-Indo-European. Many of these words - where it is known - are either of Anatolian (as in, the extinct Indo-European language family that includes Hittite) and Semitic origin. It is also probable that a number of the other are of Minoan origin, but we know too little about Minoan (the presumed language of Linear A) to know for sure. Anyways, there is no evidence of such "Pelasgian" words to be found in Albanian.

i know exactly what i am talking about i am studying this stuff

No offense, but you should really spend some time studying the basics of comparative linguistics instead, because you have no idea what you are talking about.