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Thread: Were the Croatians originally Slavic?

  1. #101
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    Croatians are not slavic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    so my believes are correct when I say that Bosnians Croatians and Serbs are the same people-nation divided by religion and politics?

    I exclude dalmatians and some Monte-Negrins
    They are the same peoples now that they share a Yugoslav culture and other indigenous peoples and cultures are now mixed with the invading and all encompassing Slavic culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    Croatians are not slavic
    No, they are probably Hungarians right? :)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Why do you hate Slavic cultures so much? You have no idea how enriched they are... Go from town to town and you will meet varied cuisine, traditions, festivals, dialects,...

    "They are the same peoples now that they share a Yugoslav culture and other indigenous peoples and cultures are now mixed with the invading and all encompassing Slavic culture."
    Do you really think that other cultures aren't "mixed"? Do you think that Irish, German, Italian people don't have any mixed cultures??

    "invading and all encompassing Slavic culture". Who was more invading if not your ancestors in USA, who wiped out almost all native American Indians and their cultures? Speak for yourself! Tell me for example how many natives were wiped out by Russians? Do these tribes live in Reservation (concentration) camps?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    you speak lies..I supplied a link, you never did
    I didnt supply link because forum didnt allow me to, but informations that I wrote are well known and anyone can check them in any relevant source.
    You are just Italian nationalist thats all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melancon View Post
    They are the same peoples now that they share a Yugoslav culture and other indigenous peoples and cultures are now mixed with the invading and all encompassing Slavic culture.
    There is no Yugoslav culture. Orthodox and Western christian Catholic territories are parts of an entirelly different civilization.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    Why do you hate Slavic cultures so much? You have no idea how enriched they are... Go from town to town and you will meet varied cuisine, traditions, festivals, dialects,...

    "They are the same peoples now that they share a Yugoslav culture and other indigenous peoples and cultures are now mixed with the invading and all encompassing Slavic culture."
    Do you really think that other cultures aren't "mixed"? Do you think that Irish, German, Italian people don't have any mixed cultures??

    "invading and all encompassing Slavic culture". Who was more invading if not your ancestors in USA, who wiped out almost all native American Indians and their cultures? Speak for yourself! Tell me for example how many natives were wiped out by Russians? Do these tribes live in Reservation (concentration) camps?
    He is not Hungarian, he is ethnic Albanian.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    According to Stears555 I did not know I am Mongol(Chinese) lol

    Thank you for finally finding my secret ancestry, I think my life is complete now...

    (PS, why is Albania marked as a Buddhist country on that map above?)
    Last edited by Vedun; 06-10-14 at 21:14.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    According to Stears555 I did not know I am the Mongol(Chinese) lol

    Thank you for finally finding my secret ancestry, I think my life is complete now...

    (PS, why is Albania marked as a Buddhist country on that map above?)

    I can not agree about India at all... India is a diverse, multi cultural, multi ethnic, multi religious country... I can not avoid that, but I have to say it loud and clear... Person who created that map is a total idiot... lol
    The map is about dominant civilizations (based on mostly dominant religions) and NOT A detailed RELIGIOUS MAP! It was created by Samuel Huntington.

  10. #110
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    Ethnic group
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    Do you think that I am christian? My country is secular...Christianity is a derivative of Brahminic , Shivaitic (Vedic) 'cults' which were transformed into Abrahamic (A aleph (in Phoenician ("old Hebrew") means "it is" which is opposite to the Sanskrit form for A which stands for "against" or "opposite to" (Abrahamic cults worship Brahmanic ghosts (demons); that's why it was the name of "Abraham" intentionally written as "ABRAM" in 'old' Testamen - which simply means "BRAHMAN"(shortened into Brama) (Vedas)) & his 'wife' Sarah which derives from Vedic Saraswati river (1st place where our ancestors brought oral (Sama) Vedas to India and wrote first Rg Veda (Rek Veda))...
    All current Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) are an offspring of Egyptian Asurism (cult of Osiris; Egyptian Osiris (Aser) was not of "egyptian" origin at all... and all first rulers of Egypt weren't from Africa either,... they originally came from current Iraq, Ukraine & India... This includes the 'egyptian' god Horus (Greek (Ptolemaic) transmutation of Egyptian Heru or Horo, which came from current place of Ukraine & Russia, partially Bulgaria, Romania, Greece & was called Horo or Hors (Slavic god Hors)...
    This 'egyptian' cult remained until today in all those lands, called Horovod or Khorovod; Hor's cycle (dance)...
    Amun Ra came from Dogonic & Chaldean Nommo ('atlantean' deity of Seas and rivers (Amen is spoken in every chant in Abrahamic prayers; as "Amen"... which stands for something similar to Vedic "Aum" (Ommmmm)... which was added to the cult of Ra or "Raa", which was another Vedic cult & solar deity & dynasty of Rama (described in Ramayana)...
    Hathor came from the mother of Hors, this is Mehet Weret or Mehurt Weret; where Mehurt was also pronounced as Mohoth or Mehet, which was a fusion of 2 "egyptian" cults: Mat's or Ma'at's (Mother; Venus) & Vedic Moksha or Slavic Mokosh for example... Weret was Svarga or "Milky way", her milk which flew from her Heavenly udders(Milky way), feeding her son Hors or Horo (Horus) (Pleiades)...Mokosha; Mokoš (K transmuted into H and Sh into Th) or Meheth was the Egyptian (Vedic) Svarga (from this term comes Slavic god Svarun or Svarog / which is Vedic Varuna,...).
    Those were all the names of "Antediluvian" solar dynasties & 'gods', which started around the year 32 350 BCE), & which were also described in the list of "Zep tepi" dynasties of Egypt, by Manetho...

    Current Christianity came from Egypt to Rome & to Byzantium... all original 'christian' symbols in Bulgaria (Sofia) & Constantinople (Tsargrad /Tsarigrad (current Istambul)) include Vedic (Brahmanic) symbolism...







    Abrahamic cults do not "recognize" the process of reincarnation and higher worlds than just Astral world("heaven", Sheol, Duat, Niflheim, Nav, Nirvana)...but our native Brahmanic, pre-Abrahamic "Christianity" recognized higher worlds than just Nav... Those worlds were for example Prav (realm of gods), Iriy, Svarga...Svarga is the realm of the Milky way (Mehet Weret; Moksha, a total liberation, higher realm in Svarga (Loka). There exist higher worlds, Brahmaloka which is the entire visible (and not visible) Cosmos (Jivaloka / Brahma)...

    From old Egyptian perspective, the Christ(krishna: "Incarnated god(into a flesh), from above...) is a "living" Pharaoh, incarnated god (Horus) into a human flesh... That's why it was also called the "Twice born one"(dvija) in Vedas (in Sanskrit)... Krishna means "Incarnated god(into a flesh), from above... (and not "black one"), which is a Hindu invention.
    Last edited by Vedun; 06-10-14 at 21:09.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    He is not Hungarian, he is ethnic Albanian.
    I've always suspected he is not Hungarian. His first post was Whaaat?, then second WTF?! and after I've seen the third I was like This kind of behavior would only make Hungarians look stupid, and he is aware of it, and he is doing this on purpose. He can't be Hungarian.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Ethnic group
    Croatian
    Country: Croatia



    It would be interesting if some more Croatians would write their Y DNA here and region they are from.

    My opinion is that data which is official and other researches done in Croatia arent very good and scinetific I think that percentage of I2 isnt so big. I think authors of these researches tried to show Croatians like old pure nation which I dont think it is. I think in real Croatia has much more mixture of haplogruops.

    And this chart which separates world by religion is funny. Croatia is more western not because catholick religion, its western becasue we were mainly and long part of Austrian Empire and Bosnia and rest was part of Ottoman Empire.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Well, Croatia is mostly (Hrvatska) a nation of the modern world and in a region that is both small and quite lush to live in. It also has a long history of residence/populated towns. Very often the idea of a modern nation's People as "similar" to an ancient people has low significance for reality, but naturally rises in countries that recently in history achieved Independence (or recently got back to independence). Most nations are composed by many streams of ethnic groups through a long time of history. The least genetically complex ethnic groups in Europe according to the Genographic seems to be the irish, the finnish, and the euskadian North Spanish (basque) . The name Hrvatska sounds to me like a grammatical slavification of Horvath, which is a hungarian name. The hungarians are genetically very European/old South eurasian, but in language very ugric /branch of the finno-ugric past that belongs more to the Northern old Russia and the later North Baltics, parts of east/North Scandinavia, and Estonia/Finland. The problem is that names, religion, language, cultural issues, do not necessarily follow the genetic ancestry. Also the genetic ancestry is found out about step by step. There are many lineages behind each individual. Some genetic traits survive. Others do not. Some "rest" and then reappear. However as we had many immigrants from former Yugoslavia into Norway after the civil Balkan war, I saw differences in the appearances /facial features between the croats, the kosovans and the bosnians, so there must have been a time long enough for separation of population groups to form such specialities . The hard question is when these pinpoints for a group appeared or anchored. The full genetic map of an individual is highly complex.

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    Yes, before the viking age ,the romans rules most of South Europe and spread the old greek and old etruscan-roman lineages across Southern Europe ,North Africa and western Middle east. After this, the barbarian tribes increased their attacks on roman colonies and on Rome itself, mixing into the populations of former celts, gauls, romans and other ancient groups. The goths took over many of the areas in Southern Europe, from Spain in the west to black sea region in the East. Before this, the goths started expanding (at around 100 AD) from eastern Scandinavia; in roman history "Scandza" and "Gothascandza". The first expansion went into the area that today is Poland and the Baltic states, and the next went into western Scandinavia, eastern Europe and Southern/Central Europe. The last gothic language existed in Crimean peninsula/Krim as late as the 1600s. Later, the moslim expansions came into parts of Southern Europe, where countries like Bosnia, Spain and Turkey has been heavily affected in various ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    There is no Yugoslav culture. Orthodox and Western christian Catholic territories are parts of an entirelly different civilization.


    Shinto for Japanese

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    An anthropological paper about Croats:

    https://ariets.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/15311416.pdf

    (...) Our results showed marked craniometrical similarities between early medieval Croat and medieval Polish series. Among all of the 39 analyzed European sites, the two exhibiting the greatest similarities were Nin, a site representing the nucleus of the early medieval Croat state (72), and Cedynia, a Polish site located approximately 75 km south of the Baltic Sea. Conversely, the 5 analyzed Iranian sites exhibited no similarity with the early medieval Croat sites and were all located in the diametrically opposite part of the scatter plot. These results suggest that early medieval Croats were of Slavic ancestry, and that early medieval Croats and Poles at one time shared a common homeland. Recent genetic analyses of the nonrecombining Y chromosome from 25 extant European and Middle Eastern populations support the Slavic affiliation of the Croats, and also indicate significant genetic similarities between modern Croats and Poles (1). (...)

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    Croats are slavs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Anyway after reading many books, I decided to ask the question to the slavs in this forum. Link below is interesting
    I think, that right question should be: who were the first croat-name-bearing people in anciet times.

    It could be Slavs, Scythians or Iranians.

    Today, Croats from Croatia are slavic, because they
    speak slavic language. This is the only criterion.

    We can ask of course how many Croats are haplo-Indoeuropeans.
    And the answer for that is very simply - this will be the percentage
    of some paternal haplotypes, which were associated with first man
    who were the begginer of indoeuropean people.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    The question above has always been talked about when visiting croatian friends/families. The arguements range from being forced to become slavic or not. An alphabet ( slovenians as well) which has always been Latin based instead of Cyrillic based. A religion from the west roman empire - Catholic instead of the East Roamn Empire - Orthodox....
    Alphabets can be changed much more easily than spoken languages. This was probably even more true in former days when literacy was not as common since the "average" person might not need to be retrained on the new alphabet since they didn't know any alphabet at all to begin with. We can see alphabets changing due to religious and cultural reasons, but religious conversion seems to be a major one. Celtic and Germanic-speaking peoples dropped their own alphabets and adopted the Roman one on conversion to Roman Catholicism. The Arabic alphabet prevailed in Persia on the conversion of most people to Islam. This can be seen in India/Pakistan today, with the Hindi and Urdu languages being more or less the same when spoken but written using different alphabets.

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    According to data which I was able to see a few months ago in a GG forum, perhaps 4/5 of Croats share practically the same genetics with Serbs. Even more, they share practically the same language with them. It is the same population sharply separated by religion.

    Bosnian muslims are from the same story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    I think, that right question should be: who were the first croat-name-bearing people in anciet times.

    It could be Slavs, Scythians or Iranians.

    Today, Croats from Croatia are slavic, because they
    speak slavic language. This is the only criterion.
    This is the only proper way of thinking

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    Language doesn't necessarily determine ethnicity. Berbers, many of whom now speak Arabic, are not Arabs. These changes occur because of conquest. While that conquest may be accompanied by some new genetic influx, the proportions necessary for language change can vary widely. I think that kind of standard is as misguided as saying that religion determines ethnicity.

    Balkan genetics-Kovacevic et al.PNG

    Standing at the Gateway to Europe, Kovacevic et al:
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0105090

    How different are the Slavic speaking people of the Balkans from the Greeks? They're far more similar to them than they are to Poles. As for the differences among them, they are negligible even at this level of resolution.
    Attached Images Attached Images


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stears555 View Post
    Croatians are not slavic
    What they are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Language doesn't necessarily determine ethnicity. Berbers, many of whom now speak Arabic, are not Arabs. These changes occur because of conquest. While that conquest may be accompanied by some new genetic influx, the proportions necessary for language change can vary widely. I think that kind of standard is as misguided as saying that religion determines ethnicity.

    Balkan genetics-Kovacevic et al.PNG

    Standing at the Gateway to Europe, Kovacevic et al:
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0105090

    How different are the Slavic speaking people of the Balkans from the Greeks? They're far more similar to them than they are to Poles. As for the differences among them, they are negligible even at this level of resolution.
    Did Croatian language have any paleo balkanic substrate . Have they any word in their language of ancient Hellenic, Latin or Albanian and vlach origin. They have on their y-DNA lineage population I 2a but if they don't have any ancient word on their language this mean that their mix with locals wasn't significant.
    During the 5-6 century AD thracians were assimilated or migrated into West Balkans, forced by the bulgars. Those people probably mixed with the Albanians there.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Language doesn't necessarily determine ethnicity. Berbers, many of whom now speak Arabic, are not Arabs. These changes occur because of conquest. While that conquest may be accompanied by some new genetic influx, the proportions necessary for language change can vary widely. I think that kind of standard is as misguided as saying that religion determines ethnicity.

    Balkan genetics-Kovacevic et al.PNG

    Standing at the Gateway to Europe, Kovacevic et al:
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0105090

    How different are the Slavic speaking people of the Balkans from the Greeks? They're far more similar to them than they are to Poles. As for the differences among them, they are negligible even at this level of resolution.
    I sow carefully your map DNA here, Angela. All the Slavic population you mentioned, are closer to the Greeks because they have in their regions large population of Albanians . Macedonia and Kosovo have the largest Albanian population after the Albanian state. Montenegrins are close to Greeks because they are half Albanians. And Macedonians too. Many Muslim Albanians were assimilated by Muslim bosniaks during the last century. As I know there is no connection and intermixture between Slavic languages and Greek language , nor Latin language. But there is a lot of between the Albanian tongue and and Greek and Latin languages. Also we have the intermixture between the Albanian tongue and Slavic tongues. Conclude by your self

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