Were the Croatians originally Slavic?

If you had ever seen a southern and northern Albanian you'd be certain they are of totally different ethnicity. That is the cause for different language, not the Romans or their road. Only God knows how many peoples were Albanized down there...
I don't see on them a strong difference. Only you see such stuffs. There are no proofs about your claim. Albanians were the last who got independent from the Ottomans, so probably they couldn't have the chance to assimilate any other larger population. The Serbs became earlier than the Albanians independent, so they assimilated too many vlachs and Albanians there. Are there still Vlachs on Serbia, or they are all assimilated by the Serbs. What is the situation of indigenous inhabitants of vojvodina. Is there still a Hungarian majority, or they are assimilated by the Serbs. Maybe they need their independence either. Lets make a referendum there
 
Considering that the bulk of illyrian tribes sat in Bosnia, slovenia and croatia and that Vudedol culture was proto-Illyrian, the only logical scenario is this

Bosnia ......were many Illyrians who gained some slavs after 600CE became slavic later

Croatia .....were illyrians who became slavic due to the settlement of many slavs

Dalmatia............were illyrian as much as Bosnians who became slavs very late in time.

slovenian and eastern Austrians ( noricum area )..........were illyrians who became firstly bavarians then slavs , then east austria became bavarian again.

The percentage of illyrians who became albanians is very very small, we see this in the DNA

from top to bottom, ......which ancient ethnicity make up the albanians
Dardanians
Epirotes
Macedonians
Illyrians
Corinthinan Greeks
Dorians

Clearly you must realise that the Ghegs are "proper Albanians" and the Tosks are less so

But since Brittania states that Albanoi first appeared in 200CE ( common era (after christ )), it would be logical to say from this date, there was no longer any Dardanians, Illyrians and Dorians..so claiming any of these ethnicities is a fabrication
The center of the Hyllirians kingdom was Scutari, located in North west Albania. We don't know what was the center of the dardanian kingdom. Hyllirian DNA is unknown yet, so your statements are wrong. We know only a little from the tracian DNA. It is not secure either. The sources of Roman empire saying that the population of West Balkan was too rare when the barbarian migration started. So probably west Balkan Slavs mixed too rare with the locals, especially with the Hyllirians, who were remained a very small population from the Latin assimilation. When the Slavs arrived in west balkan they didn't found many Hyllirians there on the mountains.
The language is the clue, not the DNA. DNA is only a side indicator to understand further
 
again you tell us nothing,
and if your hg is the one I guess then you are a pre-neolithic Thracian Bulgarian

What do u know about haplogroups? Nothing....
So you should stick to what you think you now. As I said J2b-L283 is a neolithic Balkan marker found at the highest frequency among Albanians. There was no "Bulgarians" in the Neolithic and of course nobody knows what haplogroups Thracians were made of. I was just making a point to Sile, aka Zanipolo, aka Vettor that I happen to carry one of the main Albanian Y-DNA haplogroups since he questioned whether I have explored my family line.
 
Ike please stop commenting. Your comments are embarrassing. Sile, by what I've read, the two major cities in Illyria were Rizon in Montenegro, and Shkodra in Albania. Ironically, these seemed to have been subdued first, while it was the less subdued northern tribes that took part of the "last" revolt against Tiberius' army before the battle of the Teutoburg forest. Russia's biggest part is technically in Asia, but it's the European powers that held the most power. Likewise, the southern tribes, especially the ones that had contact with the Doric world were the biggest centers.

I wouldnt bother with Sile, aka Zanipolo, aka Vettor. I actually thought he was half way serious, but he has lost any credibility he might have had. He is turning into a puppy of some of these Slavic forumers which are hiding behind a computer screen and throwing desperate attacks at Albanians and see if anything sticks. Even on a thread about Croatians?
 
The center of the Hyllirians kingdom was Scutari, located in North west Albania. We don't know what was the center of the dardanian kingdom. Hyllirian DNA is unknown yet, so your statements are wrong. We know only a little from the tracian DNA. It is not secure either. The sources of Roman empire saying that the population of West Balkan was too rare when the barbarian migration started. So probably west Balkan Slavs mixed too rare with the locals, especially with the Hyllirians, who were remained a very small population from the Latin assimilation. When the Slavs arrived in west balkan they didn't found many Hyllirians there on the mountains.
The language is the clue, not the DNA. DNA is only a side indicator to understand further

The centre was not Scudari , it was much further north...........by the time the illyrians entered modern Albania the ancient Macedonians already ruled the area. Please read the history of Alexander the great father Philip and his many wars against the encroaching illyrians from the north.

Illyrian DNA is known, its I2a , R1b , G2a, and others and some 8% of E-v13...............the Illyrians are very mixed, because they are not ONE ethnicity
 
I wouldnt bother with Sile, aka Zanipolo, aka Vettor. I actually thought he was half way serious, but he has lost any credibility he might have had. He is turning into a puppy of some of these Slavic forumers which are hiding behind a computer screen and throwing desperate attacks at Albanians and see if anything sticks. Even on a thread about Croatians?

Your fabrication is improving....I target slavs as much as Albanians , I also target, italians, Greeks, Celts etc etc................its not the race I target, it is the propaganda you comment on. It has zero historical truth.

You need to post in this site without being an Albanian..........then you might not be annoying anymore
 
The centre was not Scudari , it was much further north...........by the time the illyrians entered modern Albania the ancient Macedonians already ruled the area. Please read the history of Alexander the great father Philip and his many wars against the encroaching illyrians from the north.

Illyrian DNA is known, its I2a , R1b , G2a, and others and some 8% of E-v13...............the Illyrians are very mixed, because they are not ONE ethnicity

Show us some ancient Illyrian Y-DNA to support your claim. There is none yet.
So then since clearly you just fabricated a lie about ancient Illyrian Y-DNA, how is anyone supposed to take you seriously about other claims you are blabbering about???
 
Your fabrication is improving....I target slavs as much as Albanians , I also target, italians, Greeks, Celts etc etc................its not the race I target, it is the propaganda you comment on. It has zero historical truth.

You are accusing me of "fabricating" things, without even pointing to what I have fabricated.

You need to post in this site without being an Albanian..........then you might not be annoying anymore

Oh... So now I actually am Albanian to you? On the previous page you said this about me:
Don't bother with the guy he is not an albanian
You guys are embarrassing yourselves lol... you're all over the place hahaha.
 
You are accusing me of "fabricating" things, without even pointing to what I have fabricated.



Oh... So now I actually am Albanian to you? On the previous page you said this about me:
You guys are embarrassing yourselves lol... you're all over the place hahaha.

I had to say Albanian for yourself to respect you as you stated you are Albanian ( as I need to rely on your avatar )

Do you see me bringing my nationalistic support for Italians on this forum? .............I suggest you check where your ancestors are from and even then do not bring your nationalistic views to this forum.
 
Show us some ancient Illyrian Y-DNA to support your claim. There is none yet.
So then since clearly you just fabricated a lie about ancient Illyrian Y-DNA, how is anyone supposed to take you seriously about other claims you are blabbering about???

The DNA of old yugoslavia shows to a high degree what was "Illyrian" DNA. since I2a seems the majority in the area and that recent DNA tests also shows Remedello culture in northern Italy states also I2a,................... one need to concludes, that I2a in northern Italy and northern "old yugoslavia" was proto-illyrian/proto-raetic, especially since the northern adriatic sea was once land and not sea.
G2a is also found there as an ancient marker
 
The DNA of old yugoslavia shows to a high degree what was "Illyrian" DNA. since I2a seems the majority in the area and that recent DNA tests also shows Remedello culture in northern Italy states also I2a,................... one need to concludes, that I2a in northern Italy and northern "old yugoslavia" was proto-illyrian/proto-raetic, especially since the northern adriatic sea was once land and not sea.
G2a is also found there as an ancient marker
I2a in remedello is of the Sardinian variety so not similar at all compared to the Slavic I2a which is pretty much connected to the arrival of Slavs in Balkans.
 
I2a in remedello is of the Sardinian variety so not similar at all compared to the Slavic I2a which is pretty much connected to the arrival of Slavs in Balkans.

Thank you. I was waiting for someone to correct him on this other than me, cause I would've been accused again of "nationalistic views".

Sile is making up false stories about ancient Illyrian Y-DNA which we don't have any yet (somehow he is trying to connect it with present Slavic haplogroups). Just like he is distorting other historical facts above when he said "Macedonians" ruled present day Albania before Illyrians got there.
 
Your fabrication is improving....I target slavs as much as Albanians , I also target, italians, Greeks, Celts etc etc................its not the race I target, it is the propaganda you comment on. It has zero historical truth.

You need to post in this site without being an Albanian..........then you might not be annoying anymore

Sile, some Romanian scientists argue that Albanians are Free Dacians who lived in present day Moldavia, eastern part of Romania and southern Ukraine. What is interesting in these areas today there are a lot of Albanian toponyms. If this theory is correct Albanians came to present day Albania between 5-10 century.


Albanians_as_a_migrant_Dacian_people.png
 
Thank you. I was waiting for someone to correct him on this other than me, cause I would've been accused again of "nationalistic views".

Sile is making up false stories about ancient Illyrian Y-DNA which we don't have any yet (somehow he is trying to connect it with present Slavic haplogroups). Just like he is distorting other historical facts above when he said "Macedonians" ruled present day Albania before Illyrians got there.

And we thank you for falling into this trap. So, why then you and your Albanian friends claim continuity, when you obviously have no idea about genetic imprint of Balkan in the times before 10th century? What's all this you write about?

...studies have led to the conclusion that Albanians are the direct descendants of the ancient Illyrians...


Now genetics aside, same question for the language? How do you know the language of Illyrians?

Similarly, the Albanian language derives from the language of the Illyrians, the transition from Illyrian to Albanian apparently occurring between the 4th and 6th centuries ce.

Wikipedia said:
However, the Illyrian data, consisting mainly of hydronyms, toponyms, and personal names and appearing in no inscriptions, may not be sufficient to sustain any clear identification of linguistic affinities. (source)
 
...Now genetics aside, same question for the language? How do you know the language of Illyrians?

I don't think we have enough evidence to conclude that there was just one "Illyrian" language. Consider it from the perspective of history. Suppose an archaeologist 2000 years from now tries to piece together European history from the fragments that remain after the Great Crisis of 2355 and is unsure of whether or not Swiss people spoke the same language as Belgians or whether or not there were separate "Swiss" and "Belgian" languages. It might not even occur to him to seriously consider the fact that both Switzerland and Belgium were multilingual countries.
 
I don't think we have enough evidence to conclude that there was just one "Illyrian" language. Consider it from the perspective of history. Suppose an archaeologist 2000 years from now tries to piece together European history from the fragments that remain after the Great Crisis of 2355 and is unsure of whether or not Swiss people spoke the same language as Belgians or whether or not there were separate "Swiss" and "Belgian" languages. It might not even occur to him to seriously consider the fact that both Switzerland and Belgium were multilingual countries.

You can be right, and Illyrians could be conglomerate of different tribes.

But it don't change picture about Albanian.

In Romanian and Albanian has several thousands same or similar words, some of these words have Dacian origin.

In Eastern Romania, Moldavia,Southern Ukraine there are many many Albanian toponyms.

It is obviuos that in there areas Albanians lived once.

What is interesting Albanian linguists know for these facts but from some reason they try to find Pelasgian and Illyirian links with Albanian which don't exist, even Pelasgian has no link with Illyrian, what everything turns into circus.

We will eternally discuss about these tales, but Pelasgian probably is Colchian/Kartvelian and Illyrian probably formed somewhere in today's Italy.
 
I don't think we have enough evidence to conclude that there was just one "Illyrian" language. Consider it from the perspective of history. Suppose an archaeologist 2000 years from now tries to piece together European history from the fragments that remain after the Great Crisis of 2355 and is unsure of whether or not Swiss people spoke the same language as Belgians or whether or not there were separate "Swiss" and "Belgian" languages. It might not even occur to him to seriously consider the fact that both Switzerland and Belgium were multilingual countries.

We don't, yet our Albanian friends are left free here to spread their "evidence" in the form of word guessing like :

Singidunum = Singidun + um (Latin sufix) = sing i dun = sing i don't = Unsung city - An old English town on the Danube
 
Sile, some Romanian scientists argue that Albanians are Free Dacians who lived in present day Moldavia, eastern part of Romania and southern Ukraine. What is interesting in these areas today there are a lot of Albanian toponyms. If this theory is correct Albanians came to present day Albania between 5-10 century.


Albanians_as_a_migrant_Dacian_people.png

I know about this , but I was referring to .......who owned the land of albania at the time and not the people.

If we go back to philip II he took the land and held it until Philip V...........Phililp V was in alliance with Hannibal and Syria against Rome. Rome moved into albania prior to the hannibal invasion of Italy to deny macedonia a sea passage to resupply Hannibals armies once it reached Italy.
Rome made Albania a Roman protectorate

After Rome beat Hannibal in the battle of Zama ( macedonia supplied Hannibal with 3000 troops in that battle ), Rome targeted Philip V , they attacked him for the next 50 years.

to conclude, the few illyrian tribes in northern albania entered the area while Philip II was around ,( courtesy of this Philip II ) as the "illyrian tribes" where escaping from other illyrian tribes .

There was no illyrian movement into northern albania from the death of Philip II and the death of Alexander the great ........the macedonians and the illyrians north of the DRIN river had a treaty of peace.

What did the Romans note/write about the area once it became a Roman protectorate during the Hannibal wars ...............I have still to find out.
 
@sile @ike @garrick: :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 

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